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keesje
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Re: Air Canada to buy 4 A321s from WoW

Wed Dec 26, 2018 7:25 pm

whywhyzee wrote:
keesje wrote:
Btw, it seems the 4 A321s are for main line Air Canada, not Rouge.

Image
Picture : https://www.mro-network.com


Where is this information coming from, the link doesn't mention anything from what I can see, and the picture is of a pre-existing AC A321.


https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/wow-improves-liquidity-12m-through-air-canada-a321-454649/
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keesje
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Re: Air Canada to buy 4 A321s from WoW

Wed Dec 26, 2018 7:27 pm

whywhyzee wrote:
keesje wrote:
Btw, it seems the 4 A321s are for main line Air Canada, not Rouge.

Image
Picture : https://www.mro-network.com


Where is this information coming from, the link doesn't mention anything from what I can see, and the picture is of a pre-existing AC A321.


https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/wow-improves-liquidity-12m-through-air-canada-a321-454649/
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Air Canada to buy 4 A321s from WoW

Wed Dec 26, 2018 7:34 pm

whywhyzee wrote:
the picture is of a pre-existing AC A321.


Fleet no 458 : https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... da/NwgnSwo
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Air Canada to buy 4 A321s from WoW

Wed Dec 26, 2018 7:39 pm

keesje wrote:
whywhyzee wrote:
keesje wrote:
Btw, it seems the 4 A321s are for main line Air Canada, not Rouge.

Image
Picture : https://www.mro-network.com


Where is this information coming from, the link doesn't mention anything from what I can see, and the picture is of a pre-existing AC A321.


https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/wow-improves-liquidity-12m-through-air-canada-a321-454649/


I see your point however Rouge is just a sort of department of Air Canada for which there's no public financial, yield or load data, as far as I know. Thus it's AC that decides all the goals and means for RV, which could explain why Rouge wasn't mentioned in the report.
 
VonRichtofen
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Re: Air Canada to buy 4 A321s from WoW

Wed Dec 26, 2018 7:42 pm

NG263 wrote:
VonRichtofen wrote:
Anybody know if these 321's are containerized or bulk loaded?


All Wow 320s & 321s are bulk loaded.


Thanks. I know the current A321's at Rouge are containerized. If these WOW birds end up at Rouge it'll be interesting to see if AC can/will convert them to container loading, or just keep them bulk loaded.
 
whywhyzee
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Re: Air Canada to buy 4 A321s from WoW

Wed Dec 26, 2018 7:44 pm

Anyone have any idea when they might arrive?
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Air Canada to buy 4 A321s from WoW

Wed Dec 26, 2018 7:52 pm

whywhyzee wrote:
Anyone have any idea when they might arrive?



"Deliveries will be effected in January 2019. "

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... air-canada
 
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keesje
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Re: Air Canada to buy 4 A321s from WoW

Wed Dec 26, 2018 7:55 pm

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
keesje wrote:
whywhyzee wrote:

Where is this information coming from, the link doesn't mention anything from what I can see, and the picture is of a pre-existing AC A321.


https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/wow-improves-liquidity-12m-through-air-canada-a321-454649/


I see your point however Rouge is just a sort of department of Air Canada for which there's no public financial, yield or load data, as far as I know. Thus it's AC that decides all the goals and means for RV, which could explain why Rouge wasn't mentioned in the report.


I think Air Canada took 5 A321s in recent years, C-FGKN, C-FGKP, C-FGKZ, C-FJNX and C-FLKX . It wouldn't be unprecedented.
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Thenoflyzone
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Re: Air Canada to buy 4 A321s from WoW

Wed Dec 26, 2018 7:58 pm

That link doesn't specify where the frames are going. It's most likely headed to Rouge.
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SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Air Canada to buy 4 A321s from WoW

Wed Dec 26, 2018 8:02 pm

Thenoflyzone wrote:
That link doesn't specify where the frames are going. It's most likely headed to Rouge.


Shortly after the thread was started, I was wondering whether they are for mainline or Rouge and found this (previously linked): https://www.planespotters.net/productio ... tus=future
 
Thenoflyzone
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Re: Air Canada to buy 4 A321s from WoW

Wed Dec 26, 2018 8:12 pm

^ Yeah, saw that.
longhauler wrote:

For example, Air Canada has some A320s which can only be containerized and not bulk loaded, and some that can be both.


What is the reason for that? Seems some netting is all that is required to bulk load?
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keesje
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Re: Air Canada to buy 4 A321s from WoW

Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:44 pm

Thenoflyzone wrote:
^ Yeah, saw that.
longhauler wrote:

For example, Air Canada has some A320s which can only be containerized and not bulk loaded, and some that can be both.


What is the reason for that? Seems some netting is all that is required to bulk load?


For bulkload the side walls are covered for protection..
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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Revelation
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Re: Air Canada to buy 4 A321s from WoW

Thu Dec 27, 2018 1:33 am

keesje wrote:
Thenoflyzone wrote:
^ Yeah, saw that.
longhauler wrote:
For example, Air Canada has some A320s which can only be containerized and not bulk loaded, and some that can be both.

What is the reason for that? Seems some netting is all that is required to bulk load?

For bulkload the side walls are covered for protection..

I guess that undermines the guess that everything gets homogenized upon induction to the airline.
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Dominion301
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Re: Air Canada to buy 4 A321s from WoW

Thu Dec 27, 2018 1:47 am

whywhyzee wrote:
Bag loading aside, I wouldn’t be shocked to see these frames get so,e domestic work in combination with traditional rouge routes. Destinations like YQB and YYG have benefitted from moving to larger jets or Q’s, and I imagine more could follow.

Sidebar, I just did a 5.5hr segment in a Rouge A319 in Y, and I’ve done 9 hours in the 767, also in Y, no complaints whatsoever, I think it’s pretty fair that the Rouge product is realistically not different from most other offerings, so I say, keep the expansion going.


Assuming the 5 'new' 321s do go to Rouge, I could see them displacing 319s over the summer, who in-turn could be used to upgauge the likes of YQM to Rouge.

In wonder what new Q400 routes could be opened up? Either that or those extra Qs add an extra frequency to somewhere like YFC and YSJ.
 
Newbiepilot
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Re: Air Canada to buy 4 A321s from WoW

Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:00 am

Revelation wrote:
keesje wrote:
Thenoflyzone wrote:
^ Yeah, saw that.

What is the reason for that? Seems some netting is all that is required to bulk load?

For bulkload the side walls are covered for protection..

I guess that undermines the guess that everything gets homogenized upon induction to the airline.


Some airlines standardize everything and others don’t. Passenger experience items in the cabin will almost always be standardized at a major airline. The flight deck is usually standardized too as much as possible so that there are no differences that pilots have to deal with. The rest of the plane is based on whether standardized configurations have a positive business case. I don’t know if the cargo hold is something Air Canada feels justified in standardizing.

My guess is that Air Canada is prioritizing getting the seating configuration matching Rouge as well as reconfiguring the flight deck such as metric vs English units, electronic flight bag/iPad , nav databases, HUDs, etc. those things are far more important to the airline than the cargo hold.
 
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CFM565A1
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Re: Air Canada to buy 4 A321s from WoW

Thu Dec 27, 2018 4:17 am

Dominion301 wrote:
whywhyzee wrote:
Bag loading aside, I wouldn’t be shocked to see these frames get so,e domestic work in combination with traditional rouge routes. Destinations like YQB and YYG have benefitted from moving to larger jets or Q’s, and I imagine more could follow.

Sidebar, I just did a 5.5hr segment in a Rouge A319 in Y, and I’ve done 9 hours in the 767, also in Y, no complaints whatsoever, I think it’s pretty fair that the Rouge product is realistically not different from most other offerings, so I say, keep the expansion going.


Assuming the 5 'new' 321s do go to Rouge, I could see them displacing 319s over the summer, who in-turn could be used to upgauge the likes of YQM to Rouge.

In wonder what new Q400 routes could be opened up? Either that or those extra Qs add an extra frequency to somewhere like YFC and YSJ.


Well the Qs would probably bolster the loss of the 3 Dash 8-301s (GSTA,GMTA and GVTA) and the extraction of FRUZ and FSOU in the summer so they could really go anywhere but they will be needed especially if we have any more surprise retirements of the -301s.
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Re: Air Canada to buy 4 A321s from WoW

Thu Dec 27, 2018 4:20 am

Newbiepilot wrote:
Revelation wrote:
keesje wrote:

For bulkload the side walls are covered for protection..

I guess that undermines the guess that everything gets homogenized upon induction to the airline.


Some airlines standardize everything and others don’t. Passenger experience items in the cabin will almost always be standardized at a major airline. The flight deck is usually standardized too as much as possible so that there are no differences that pilots have to deal with. The rest of the plane is based on whether standardized configurations have a positive business case. I don’t know if the cargo hold is something Air Canada feels justified in standardizing.

My guess is that Air Canada is prioritizing getting the seating configuration matching Rouge as well as reconfiguring the flight deck such as metric vs English units, electronic flight bag/iPad , nav databases, HUDs, etc. those things are far more important to the airline than the cargo hold.


I would say the cargo hold is a bigger deal than you think based on what I know of AC’s fleet handling. Remains to be seen but I don’t think they would’ve acquired them if they were too far off their specs.
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UPNYGuy
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Re: Air Canada to buy 4 A321s from WoW

Thu Dec 27, 2018 5:29 am

debonair wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
The planes covered under this deal are currently registered TF-MOM, DAD (with sharklets), SON, and KID (without sharklets).


TF-MOM is operating for Aruba Airlines in the moment...


TF-DAD and MOM seem to be the WOW A/C that I have wound up on most frequently, with the nod going to DAD. It frequented BOS, and is (was) on the BOS-EDI and BOS-CPH rotations. Last time in LGW had the big seats (which are quite nice FWIW), and didn't get that reg. MOM would wind up in BOS too, but seems like it was less often, possibly just because I didn't wind up on it as often.
 
DALCE
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Re: Air Canada to buy 4 A321s from WoW

Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:45 pm

bulkload or ULD-load on the Airbus make a big difference in cargo. Bulk takes max 149kgs per piece with most airlines, whereas a AKH/PKC may weigh up to 1134kgs. (incl the ULD)
My pallet of 800kgs of urgent shipspares booked with AC from A to B which gets offloaded due to bulkload ops can extend to huge claims for parts missing a ship departure from a port or extending a drydock period for some time. These bills tend to be quite steep....
And yes.........cargo does complain.......all day, every day... ;)
I'm sure that AC take a weighted decision and that they don't add frames without taking this into consideration.
flown: F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,CS3,E75,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,
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yyz717
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Re: Air Canada to buy 4 A321s from WoW

Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:26 pm

aerotransport.org reports today that AC will acquire 2 Interjet A320s in Sept 2019. msn 3149 and 3304. Both 2007 builds. Much younger than the rest of the AC 320 fleet.

No mention of mainline vs. Rouge.
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Noise
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Re: Air Canada to buy 4 A321s from WoW

Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:28 pm

yyz717 wrote:
aerotransport.org reports today that AC will acquire 2 Interjet A320s in Sept 2019. msn 3149 and 3304. Both 2007 builds. Much younger than the rest of the AC 320 fleet.

No mention of mainline vs. Rouge.


Oh wow.

Air Canada has been very aggressive in the used-aircraft market lately.
 
Thomaas
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Re: Air Canada to buy 4 A321s from WoW

Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:07 pm

[twoid][/twoid]
Noise wrote:
yyz717 wrote:
aerotransport.org reports today that AC will acquire 2 Interjet A320s in Sept 2019. msn 3149 and 3304. Both 2007 builds. Much younger than the rest of the AC 320 fleet.

No mention of mainline vs. Rouge.


Oh wow.

Air Canada has been very aggressive in the used-aircraft market lately.


My understanding is that they will be part of the 3 A320s that will join the Rouge fleet in 2019.
 
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Re: Air Canada to buy 4 A321s from WoW

Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:33 pm

Noise wrote:
yyz717 wrote:
aerotransport.org reports today that AC will acquire 2 Interjet A320s in Sept 2019. msn 3149 and 3304. Both 2007 builds. Much younger than the rest of the AC 320 fleet.

No mention of mainline vs. Rouge.


Oh wow.

Air Canada has been very aggressive in the used-aircraft market lately.

Well managed airlines are buying used.
Is it production delays transitioning to new engines/airframes or values in used airframes?
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mcg
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Re: Air Canada to buy 4 A321s from WoW

Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:41 pm

Newbiepilot wrote:
EChid wrote:
Newbiepilot wrote:
They must also be willing to take some risk. I don’t imagine WOW investing a lot in their airplanes.

I don't think that should be a significant concern. These are planes operating in a developed country to developed countries, all with stringent safety standards. Their maintenance procedures would have been maintained properly since losing certification or developing an unsafe rep would absolutely be the final nail in the coffin.


I was referring to more financial risk than safety risk. Airlines in financial duress are less likely to stay on top of reliability upgrades. There also may be structural repairs that may need to be reworked or replaced to avoid repetitive inspections. There may be PMA parts from lower cost vendors or components may be repaired at vendors that dont include OEM upgrades which can affect reliability. Airlines getting planes repossesed also can scavenge life limited parts or parts recently overhauled. Air Canada may end up with planes with completely worn out brakes, tires etc.


Lessors charge maintenance reserves for a reason. Their A321s that came from Air France may be in better condition than WOW or Air Berlin. Everything can be cleaned up and addressed in a thorough C Check, but it may be expensive.


Wouldn't Air Canada simply inspect the airplanes before purchase to determine their condition? The final price would reflect the condition of the aircraft. It's not that hard really.
 
LDRA
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Re: Air Canada to buy 4 A321s from WoW

Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:41 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Noise wrote:
yyz717 wrote:
aerotransport.org reports today that AC will acquire 2 Interjet A320s in Sept 2019. msn 3149 and 3304. Both 2007 builds. Much younger than the rest of the AC 320 fleet.

No mention of mainline vs. Rouge.


Oh wow.

Air Canada has been very aggressive in the used-aircraft market lately.

Well managed airlines are buying used.
Is it production delays transitioning to new engines/airframes or values in used airframes?


New gen has low available utilisation, still teething
 
7673mech
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Re: Air Canada to buy 4 A321s from WoW

Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:53 pm

mcg wrote:
Newbiepilot wrote:
EChid wrote:
I don't think that should be a significant concern. These are planes operating in a developed country to developed countries, all with stringent safety standards. Their maintenance procedures would have been maintained properly since losing certification or developing an unsafe rep would absolutely be the final nail in the coffin.


I was referring to more financial risk than safety risk. Airlines in financial duress are less likely to stay on top of reliability upgrades. There also may be structural repairs that may need to be reworked or replaced to avoid repetitive inspections. There may be PMA parts from lower cost vendors or components may be repaired at vendors that dont include OEM upgrades which can affect reliability. Airlines getting planes repossesed also can scavenge life limited parts or parts recently overhauled. Air Canada may end up with planes with completely worn out brakes, tires etc.


Lessors charge maintenance reserves for a reason. Their A321s that came from Air France may be in better condition than WOW or Air Berlin. Everything can be cleaned up and addressed in a thorough C Check, but it may be expensive.


Wouldn't Air Canada simply inspect the airplanes before purchase to determine their condition? The final price would reflect the condition of the aircraft. It's not that hard really.


They would.
No aircraft transaction is completed (or in most cases started) until a walk through and records review is completed.
 
Dominion301
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Re: Air Canada to buy 4 A321s from WoW

Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:01 pm

Thomaas wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
Noise wrote:
yyz717 wrote:
aerotransport.org reports today that AC will acquire 2 Interjet A320s in Sept 2019. msn 3149 and 3304. Both 2007 builds. Much younger than the rest of the AC 320 fleet.

No mention of mainline vs. Rouge.


Oh wow.

Air Canada has been very aggressive in the used-aircraft market lately.


My understanding is that they will be part of the 3 A320s that will join the Rouge fleet in 2019.


How big is the Rouge narrowbody fleet now permitted to grow to?
 
whywhyzee
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Re: Air Canada to buy 4 A321s from WoW

Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:33 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
Thomaas wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
Noise wrote:

Oh wow.

Air Canada has been very aggressive in the used-aircraft market lately.


My understanding is that they will be part of the 3 A320s that will join the Rouge fleet in 2019.


How big is the Rouge narrowbody fleet now permitted to grow to?


It's tied to mainline, for every mainline addition, Rouge is permitted a certain addition. I cannot recall the exact numbers.
 
YVRing
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Re: Air Canada to buy 4 A321s from WoW

Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:56 pm

The used purchases and leases make sense given that AC has said they want to reduce their capital expenditures.
 
Dominion301
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Re: Air Canada to buy 4 A321s from WoW

Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:15 pm

whywhyzee wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
Thomaas wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]

My understanding is that they will be part of the 3 A320s that will join the Rouge fleet in 2019.


How big is the Rouge narrowbody fleet now permitted to grow to?


It's tied to mainline, for every mainline addition, Rouge is permitted a certain addition. I cannot recall the exact numbers.


Yeah I was aware of the tie-in to mainline, but was wondering what the new magic number is?
 
Whiteguy
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Re: Air Canada to buy 4 A321s from WoW

Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:59 pm

whywhyzee wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
Thomaas wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]

My understanding is that they will be part of the 3 A320s that will join the Rouge fleet in 2019.


How big is the Rouge narrowbody fleet now permitted to grow to?


It's tied to mainline, for every mainline addition, Rouge is permitted a certain addition. I cannot recall the exact numbers.



One narrow body at Rouge for every narrow body added to mainline, and 2 narrow bodies for every wide body added at mainline.
 
TriniA340
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Re: Air Canada to buy 4 A321s from WoW

Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:13 pm

Does Rouge have any A32X with sharklets?
· longer · larger · farther · faster · higher · quieter · smoother ·
 
whywhyzee
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Re: Air Canada to buy 4 A321s from WoW

Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:23 pm

TriniA340 wrote:
Does Rouge have any A32X with sharklets?

5 of 6 A321s do.
 
longhauler
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Re: Air Canada to buy 4 A321s from WoW

Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:26 pm

Whiteguy wrote:
One narrow body at Rouge for every narrow body added to mainline, and 2 narrow bodies for every wide body added at mainline.

Yes and over the next year or two, it looks like almost unlimited narrow body growth at Rouge will be allowed.

As the E190s were not included in the "base line" total of mainline, every time an A220 replaces an E190 (which will happen 25 times) another narrow body can be added to Rouge even though technically mainline totals would be the same.

Notice that Wide Body is not mentioned. without getting too technical and without a lot of changes, Rouge is sitting at about maximum Wide Body for now ... until the next contract re-opener.

TriniA340 wrote:
Does Rouge have any A32X with sharklets?


Yes, the new A321s added to Rouge all have sharklets. (The used A321 does not).
Last edited by longhauler on Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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WildcatYXU
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Re: Air Canada to buy 4 A321s from WoW

Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:32 pm

TriniA340 wrote:
Does Rouge have any A32X with sharklets?


The five A321 that were purchased new are equipped with sharklets.
310, 319, 320, 321, 333, 343, 345, 346, 732, 735, 73G, 738, 744, 752, 762, 763, 77L, 77W, 788, AT4, AT7, BEH, CR2, CRA, CR9, DH1, DH3, DH4, E45, E75, E90, E95, F28, F50, F100, MD82, Saab 340, YAK40
 
YYZLGA
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Re: Air Canada to buy 4 A321s from WoW

Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:40 pm

longhauler wrote:
Yes and over the next year or two, it looks like almost unlimited narrow body growth at Rouge will be allowed.

As the E190s were not included in the "base line" total of mainline, every time an A220 replaces an E190 (which will happen 25 times) another narrow body can be added to Rouge even though technically mainline totals would be the same.


That's a loophole you could fly an A380 through. So it seems we could end up seeing Rouge replace a lot of domestic flying?
 
longhauler
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Re: Air Canada to buy 4 A321s from WoW

Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:46 pm

YYZLGA wrote:
That's a loophole you could fly an A380 through. So it seems we could end up seeing Rouge replace a lot of domestic flying?

I don't know if it was a "loophole" as more of a concession. Namely when the new contract was ratified, those terms were well known ... and the topic of a lof of union meeting "discussions". It's not like it was a surprise.

I don't like the concept of Rouge, but I acknowledge the reason for its existance. This gives Air Canada full capability of using (narrow body) Rouge to its fullest.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
chrisa330
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Re: Air Canada to buy 4 A321s from WoW

Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:59 pm

I also understand rouge narrowbody growth can occur if it's to displace regional flying. eg: rouge now operating alongside Jazz/Sky on YYZ-YQB.
 
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Re: Air Canada to buy 4 A321s from WoW

Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:04 am

longhauler wrote:
I don't like the concept of Rouge, but I acknowledge the reason for its existance. This gives Air Canada full capability of using (narrow body) Rouge to its fullest.


You don't like it? Hey, you have the same seat regardless if it's mainline or Rouge. :) But what about us behind your back?
310, 319, 320, 321, 333, 343, 345, 346, 732, 735, 73G, 738, 744, 752, 762, 763, 77L, 77W, 788, AT4, AT7, BEH, CR2, CRA, CR9, DH1, DH3, DH4, E45, E75, E90, E95, F28, F50, F100, MD82, Saab 340, YAK40
 
longhauler
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Re: Air Canada to buy 4 A321s from WoW

Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:24 am

WildcatYXU wrote:
You don't like it? Hey, you have the same seat regardless if it's mainline or Rouge. :) But what about us behind your back?

Actually, I wasn't referring to the on-board product. With Rouge's very high load factors and very high repeat rate ... I have to (grudgingly) admit that Air Canada "got it right". Let's face it, if Rouge was not offering what the passenger wanted, it would not be a success.

I was referring to the very basic fact that the pilot crews are separate. One can fly either Mainline or Rouge, but not both. If Air Canada's aim was simply density, then it could have been acheived by just adding more seats and painting whatever you wanted on the side of the boat. But ... because they are separate, then "other" gains could be achieved, and it is those I don't agree with.

I wont go into details as it is rather political and not suitable for the public domain.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
User avatar
WildcatYXU
Posts: 2982
Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 2:05 pm

Re: Air Canada to buy 4 A321s from WoW

Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:43 am

longhauler wrote:
WildcatYXU wrote:
You don't like it? Hey, you have the same seat regardless if it's mainline or Rouge. :) But what about us behind your back?

Actually, I wasn't referring to the on-board product. With Rouge's very high load factors and very high repeat rate ... I have to (grudgingly) admit that Air Canada "got it right". Let's face it, if Rouge was not offering what the passenger wanted, it would not be a success.

I was referring to the very basic fact that the pilot crews are separate. One can fly either Mainline or Rouge, but not both. If Air Canada's aim was simply density, then it could have been acheived by just adding more seats and painting whatever you wanted on the side of the boat. But ... because they are separate, then "other" gains could be achieved, and it is those I don't agree with.

I wont go into details as it is rather political and not suitable for the public domain.


Longhauler, I was just joking. I knew very well what you mean, but as always, I couldn't resist :)
That said, I can't really say that Rouge would be what the passengers wanted. Rouge has high load factors and high repeat rate because it's the only AC option on many markets. Which sucks for me, because my vacations became more expensive. I just won't fly a Rouge narrowbody in Y.
310, 319, 320, 321, 333, 343, 345, 346, 732, 735, 73G, 738, 744, 752, 762, 763, 77L, 77W, 788, AT4, AT7, BEH, CR2, CRA, CR9, DH1, DH3, DH4, E45, E75, E90, E95, F28, F50, F100, MD82, Saab 340, YAK40
 
HJM
Posts: 49
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2017 11:05 pm

Re: Air Canada to buy 4 A321s from WoW

Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:30 am

My perception is that Air Canada rouge will get more North America flying in the future. AC likely will quickly rotate AC mainline, AC rouge and even Jazz flying as required by the market.
 
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hongkongflyer
Posts: 611
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:23 am

Re: Air Canada to buy 4 A321s from WoW

Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:33 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
workhorse wrote:
The planes covered under this deal are currently registered TF-MOM, DAD (with sharklets), SON, and KID (without sharklets).


wow never know they have such interesting registration number other then the famous TF-GAY
 
User avatar
aemoreira1981
Posts: 2419
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: Air Canada to buy 4 A321s from WoW

Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:18 am

longhauler wrote:
WildcatYXU wrote:
You don't like it? Hey, you have the same seat regardless if it's mainline or Rouge. :) But what about us behind your back?

Actually, I wasn't referring to the on-board product. With Rouge's very high load factors and very high repeat rate ... I have to (grudgingly) admit that Air Canada "got it right". Let's face it, if Rouge was not offering what the passenger wanted, it would not be a success.

I was referring to the very basic fact that the pilot crews are separate. One can fly either Mainline or Rouge, but not both. If Air Canada's aim was simply density, then it could have been acheived by just adding more seats and painting whatever you wanted on the side of the boat. But ... because they are separate, then "other" gains could be achieved, and it is those I don't agree with.

I wont go into details as it is rather political and not suitable for the public domain.


Aren't they also under different AOCs as well? Mainline (and Express) is AC, but Rouge is RV.
 
User avatar
CFM565A1
Posts: 310
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:19 pm

Re: Air Canada to buy 4 A321s from WoW

Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:35 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
longhauler wrote:
WildcatYXU wrote:
You don't like it? Hey, you have the same seat regardless if it's mainline or Rouge. :) But what about us behind your back?

Actually, I wasn't referring to the on-board product. With Rouge's very high load factors and very high repeat rate ... I have to (grudgingly) admit that Air Canada "got it right". Let's face it, if Rouge was not offering what the passenger wanted, it would not be a success.

I was referring to the very basic fact that the pilot crews are separate. One can fly either Mainline or Rouge, but not both. If Air Canada's aim was simply density, then it could have been acheived by just adding more seats and painting whatever you wanted on the side of the boat. But ... because they are separate, then "other" gains could be achieved, and it is those I don't agree with.

I wont go into details as it is rather political and not suitable for the public domain.


Aren't they also under different AOCs as well? Mainline (and Express) is AC, but Rouge is RV.


Each of the Express Carriers have their own AOCs as their own companies operating under one AC CPA.
Flown: C172-M/N/P/R/S , P2006T, PA-34-200T, DH8A/C Been on: DH8A/C ERJ-145, CRJ-100/200, DH8D, CRJ-700/705/900, E-175/190, A319/320/321, 737-200/300/400/600/700/800/900ER/M8, MD-82/83, 757-200/300, 767-300, 777-300ER, F28-4000.
 
SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 5885
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

Re: Air Canada to buy 4 A321s from WoW

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:57 pm

On January 8th, TF-KID has flown a triangle 1,5 hours flight and since hasn't left KEF. https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airc ... d#1f1d917f

January 9th, TF-SON did basically the same: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airc ... n#1f2063f3, as well as TF-DAD: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airc ... d#1f20cfed

January 10th was TF-MOM's turn: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airc ... m#1f23da82

I guess it's now only a matter of days before they migrate to Canada.
 
SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 5885
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

Re: Air Canada to buy 4 A321s from WoW

Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:36 am

Former KID has been registered in Canada and ferried to Winnipeg.


Airbus A321 -211 5681 C-GHPD Air Canada regd 28jan19, delivery 30jan19 KEF-YWG ex TF-KID (Skyliner)
 
arcticcruiser
Posts: 311
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:16 pm

Re: Air Canada to buy 4 A321s from WoW

Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:40 am

TF-KID, DAD and SON have all been de-registered in Iceland this week. MOM still remains on the register for now.
 
danipawa
Posts: 79
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2016 1:18 am

Re: Air Canada to buy 4 A321s from WoW

Thu Jan 31, 2019 11:07 am

Skyliner:
Airbus A321 -211 5681 C-GHPD Air Canada regd 28jan19, delivery 30jan19 KEF-YWG ex TF-KID
Airbus A321 -211 5733 C-GHPJ Air Canada regd 30jan19 prior delivery ex KEF ex TF-SON


So arriving home soon
 
SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 5885
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

Re: Air Canada to buy 4 A321s from WoW

Thu Jan 31, 2019 11:21 am

danipawa wrote:
Skyliner:
Airbus A321 -211 5681 C-GHPD Air Canada regd 28jan19, delivery 30jan19 KEF-YWG ex TF-KID
Airbus A321 -211 5733 C-GHPJ Air Canada regd 30jan19 prior delivery ex KEF ex TF-SON


So arriving home soon


Good job. I completely missed GHPJ when posting earlier.

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