Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
flybynight wrote:I was reading some comments from a friend who is a Gold 75k with AS. Recently he flew to SEA from somewhere in California on a Virgin Airbus. He found the F/A's not up to the usual AS level of service.
Several other people made similar comment as well.
Personally I have not flown on a Virgin flight post merger ( I am Gold myself, so I do fly a lot with AS) so I have no personal experience to rely on.
Has anyone else experienced this or is it a problem that is well-known and something AS needs to address?
nine4nine wrote:Just recently flew on an AS flight from FLL-LAX on VX metal and VX crew. I thought the crew was great. Young,hip, and energetic and present most of the flight. Much better than most of the AS flight crews of older,stuffy,and lethargic flight crews I’ve encountered,much akin to the legacy carriers.
VXCabinCrew wrote:I am an ex-VX FA who left a couple months ago and was with VX for several years. Both VX and AS crews should be working both aircraft types by February, which a lot of VX crews are happy about because our good layovers (i.e. Hawaii) went to the Boeing side about a year ago. HNL and OGG were prized overnights for us.
VX and AS crews have very different work ethics and styles. I know the integration of styles will be tough at first once both work groups are on the same aircraft. Neither style is bad or good - just very different animals. I am sad not to work with AS FAs, because all of the ones I met were absolutely lovely. VX crews are taking a while to latch onto offering the AS service that is expected to be consistent on both Boeing and Airbus sides now. I think that is part of the problem with AS flyers not enjoying the service on Airbus. People (especially FAs) are very resistant to change, and management asked us to implement service changes which Airbus crews, for the most part, didn’t want to do (or did begrudgingly).
Everyone has a different opinion about the integration. Some are very happy to have the union protection, work rules and pay. My pay increased by $15/hour after we integrated. Some people are mad that we got bought by a “less hip” airline. Some have mixed emotions. AS leadership is very different and much more intense than what we had at VX, and it’s a very abrupt style to get used to. Alaska is a great company, but, as with any buy-out, some people can’t let go of the past and accept changes.
I left for Delta, only because I figured if we were losing VX, I’d go for something totally different. I’m in the “change-is-good” camp. I’m excited now to watch the integration from the outside.
usxguy wrote:The VX team worked for VX for a reason, it wasn't necessarily the same reason one would apply at American, Delta, United, etc. The culture was a big driver, but also because VX was a disruptor and people were proud of that. While AS is a good company, and stands out among the rest for being somewhat employee friendly, its not the same. You'll hear different responses from different work groups. The FAs will always be a mixed bag - they really *do* like the AFA work rules and contract, the raises of course are great, but the micromanagement has gotten to them as AS integrates them. The pilots feel like they're being sh*t on - and not getting the answers they are used to getting (or communication). Airports don't matter as much since VX tended to outsource most of those. Corporate staff who moved to Seattle are just kinda feeling all zombie-ish, especially after seeing how Alaska handled the 100+ layoffs.
As an Alaska elite passenger, I've had hit or miss on the flights, be it VX or even AS. The company isn't the same it was in 2009. It's still good, but it seems like the motto is just be 5% better than anyone else, rather than REALLY going all out to care for the customers & the staff. It seems Wall Street is now demanding they get "more care" than the others. Which means a cheapening of the product, and its dragging down an already questionable morale.
You also won't see any VXers post here. Back to the micromanagement, AAG has been a bit aggressive on the social media front and posts by staff.
usxguy wrote:Back to the micromanagement, AAG has been a bit aggressive on the social media front and posts by staff.
32andBelow wrote:The reason was probably they lived in San Fran and not Seattle.
VXCabinCrew wrote:I am an ex-VX FA who left a couple months ago and was with VX for several years. Both VX and AS crews should be working both aircraft types by February, which a lot of VX crews are happy about because our good layovers (i.e. Hawaii) went to the Boeing side about a year ago. HNL and OGG were prized overnights for us.
VX and AS crews have very different work ethics and styles. I know the integration of styles will be tough at first once both work groups are on the same aircraft. Neither style is bad or good - just very different animals. I am sad not to work with AS FAs, because all of the ones I met were absolutely lovely. VX crews are taking a while to latch onto offering the AS service that is expected to be consistent on both Boeing and Airbus sides now. I think that is part of the problem with AS flyers not enjoying the service on Airbus. People (especially FAs) are very resistant to change, and management asked us to implement service changes which Airbus crews, for the most part, didn’t want to do (or did begrudgingly).
Everyone has a different opinion about the integration. Some are very happy to have the union protection, work rules and pay. My pay increased by $15/hour after we integrated. Some people are mad that we got bought by a “less hip” airline. Some have mixed emotions. AS leadership is very different and much more intense than what we had at VX, and it’s a very abrupt style to get used to. Alaska is a great company, but, as with any buy-out, some people can’t let go of the past and accept changes.
I left for Delta, only because I figured if we were losing VX, I’d go for something totally different. I’m in the “change-is-good” camp. I’m excited now to watch the integration from the outside.
EA CO AS wrote:usxguy wrote:Back to the micromanagement, AAG has been a bit aggressive on the social media front and posts by staff.
All good companies have strong social media policies aimed at protecting the company. Remember what that gate agent did at WN, mocking the little girl's name? There's a reason these policies usually state something along the lines of "any conduct that's detrimental to the company, our customers, or co-workers" won't be tolerated. It's not just an AAG thing.32andBelow wrote:The reason was probably they lived in San Fran and not Seattle.
The VX staff who lived in the Bay Area but had overlapping jobs with a counterpart in Seattle were given the opportunity to interview for the same position, and it wasn't always the legacy-AS person who made the cut. Those who didn't continue on were given generous severance packages, plus job placement services via headhunters - even those who left voluntarily. And many of the legacy-VX staff in Burlingame did choose to stay on. In fact, there are quite a few VX staffers who were made part of a legacy-AS union group and given the opportunity to work remotely from their homes in the Bay Area.
32andBelow wrote:EA CO AS wrote:usxguy wrote:Back to the micromanagement, AAG has been a bit aggressive on the social media front and posts by staff.
All good companies have strong social media policies aimed at protecting the company. Remember what that gate agent did at WN, mocking the little girl's name? There's a reason these policies usually state something along the lines of "any conduct that's detrimental to the company, our customers, or co-workers" won't be tolerated. It's not just an AAG thing.32andBelow wrote:The reason was probably they lived in San Fran and not Seattle.
The VX staff who lived in the Bay Area but had overlapping jobs with a counterpart in Seattle were given the opportunity to interview for the same position, and it wasn't always the legacy-AS person who made the cut. Those who didn't continue on were given generous severance packages, plus job placement services via headhunters - even those who left voluntarily. And many of the legacy-VX staff in Burlingame did choose to stay on. In fact, there are quite a few VX staffers who were made part of a legacy-AS union group and given the opportunity to work remotely from their homes in the Bay Area.
I thought we were talking about flight attendants
EA CO AS wrote:oh I thought the guy I quoted was talking about his32andBelow wrote:EA CO AS wrote:
All good companies have strong social media policies aimed at protecting the company. Remember what that gate agent did at WN, mocking the little girl's name? There's a reason these policies usually state something along the lines of "any conduct that's detrimental to the company, our customers, or co-workers" won't be tolerated. It's not just an AAG thing.
The VX staff who lived in the Bay Area but had overlapping jobs with a counterpart in Seattle were given the opportunity to interview for the same position, and it wasn't always the legacy-AS person who made the cut. Those who didn't continue on were given generous severance packages, plus job placement services via headhunters - even those who left voluntarily. And many of the legacy-VX staff in Burlingame did choose to stay on. In fact, there are quite a few VX staffers who were made part of a legacy-AS union group and given the opportunity to work remotely from their homes in the Bay Area.
I thought we were talking about flight attendants
The topic simply says Are VX employees liking working for AS so I felt it was important to point out what happened with other employees outside of inflight.
LAXBUR wrote:when it comes to AS FAs are losing because of the seniority merge, while VX FAs wins. So they may be a bit jaded themselves.
32andBelow wrote:oh I thought the guy I quoted was talking about his In flight experiences and the Alaska flight attendants being old bags
EA CO AS wrote:All good companies have strong social media policies aimed at protecting the company. Remember what that gate agent did at WN, mocking the little girl's name? There's a reason these policies usually state something along the lines of "any conduct that's detrimental to the company, our customers, or co-workers" won't be tolerated. It's not just an AAG thing.
LAXBUR wrote:I find the “hip” comment to be completely laughable.
LAXBUR wrote:Crews are not integrated, but Alaska onboard service is now in place. Seatback ordering is disabled and you can reserve meals online for Airbus aircraft now. So I find the “hip” comment to be completely laughable. Everyone can have their own opinion and experience but how does one display or differentiate their hipness when everyone is now offering the same onboard service? Maybe they talked about Ariana Grande? lol.
I didn’t fly VX prior to the merger, but almost all my flights this year have been Airbus. Until my last two Airbus flights there was little eye contact or verbal responses and twice I was in first next to a non rev - the working FAs in both cases seemed to have no issue leaning on my seat or the seat in front of me and complaining about work. I am not sure if this was a morale thing or culture thing. My AS FA friends have described the VX crews they’ve encountered as “rude” and before the merger other airline employees described VX employees as “arrogant” from front line to management. But when it comes to AS FAs are losing because of the seniority merge, while VX FAs wins. So they may be a bit jaded themselves.
EA CO AS wrote:LAXBUR wrote:when it comes to AS FAs are losing because of the seniority merge, while VX FAs wins. So they may be a bit jaded themselves.
I'd like to hear more about this, because so far the only side I've heard complain have been a small but vocal group of the legacy-VX crews complaining about how "their" SFOJFK and other transcon runs are going to Boeing equipment so legacy-AS crews get to fly them while the former VX'ers do things like SEASAN that don't pay as well per trip.
Of course the fact remains that once all is integrated those transcons will go to the 15 year and up seniority legacy-AS crews since the legacy-VX crews had, at most, 10 years with the company before the acquisition, so I have a hard time understanding why the legacy-VX folks are so upset.
PlanesNTrains wrote:LAXBUR wrote:Crews are not integrated, but Alaska onboard service is now in place. Seatback ordering is disabled and you can reserve meals online for Airbus aircraft now. So I find the “hip” comment to be completely laughable. Everyone can have their own opinion and experience but how does one display or differentiate their hipness when everyone is now offering the same onboard service? Maybe they talked about Ariana Grande? lol.
I didn’t fly VX prior to the merger, but almost all my flights this year have been Airbus. Until my last two Airbus flights there was little eye contact or verbal responses and twice I was in first next to a non rev - the working FAs in both cases seemed to have no issue leaning on my seat or the seat in front of me and complaining about work. I am not sure if this was a morale thing or culture thing. My AS FA friends have described the VX crews they’ve encountered as “rude” and before the merger other airline employees described VX employees as “arrogant” from front line to management. But when it comes to AS FAs are losing because of the seniority merge, while VX FAs wins. So they may be a bit jaded themselves.
I think “hip” in isolation lacks the full meaning of what they are referring to. I’d say it might be a difference between “authentically hip” and “poser hip”.
“Authentically hip” would be pre-merger VX. That was who they were. Their core fans had an emotional connection to them, like all good brands do. It was about how they felt about themselves when flying VX. Totally normal for folks with whom identifying with the brand is important.
“Poser hip” would be post-merger VX+AS. Their previous core fans know that the brand is now part of something else - not genuine, pure VX. I’d imagine for the core VX folks, that’s worse than not flying with or being a part of VX at all. In essence, they’d lost their corporate soul, but were still trying to at least pretend to be “authentic hip”.
This is all my own feelings on it. I think for employees and core guests for whom connecting with an “authentically hip” brand was paramount to their satisfaction, it’s probably a very disappointing if not negative experience for them, and no amount of fruit n cheese plates or funky lighting is gonna change that. Therefore, for AS, it’s important to just move forward with who they are as a company, doing the best they can to connect with and include ex-VX crew and guests, but to also understand that for some, they’d rather just start fresh somewhere else (ie DL) than to feel like they are selling out or compromising themselves.
LAXBUR wrote:Until my last two Airbus flights that viewpoint aligned with the type of service I received. It wasn’t outright bad, but a bit “I’m better than you/I’m disinterested.”
LAXBUR wrote:PlanesNTrains wrote:LAXBUR wrote:Crews are not integrated, but Alaska onboard service is now in place. Seatback ordering is disabled and you can reserve meals online for Airbus aircraft now. So I find the “hip” comment to be completely laughable. Everyone can have their own opinion and experience but how does one display or differentiate their hipness when everyone is now offering the same onboard service? Maybe they talked about Ariana Grande? lol.
I didn’t fly VX prior to the merger, but almost all my flights this year have been Airbus. Until my last two Airbus flights there was little eye contact or verbal responses and twice I was in first next to a non rev - the working FAs in both cases seemed to have no issue leaning on my seat or the seat in front of me and complaining about work. I am not sure if this was a morale thing or culture thing. My AS FA friends have described the VX crews they’ve encountered as “rude” and before the merger other airline employees described VX employees as “arrogant” from front line to management. But when it comes to AS FAs are losing because of the seniority merge, while VX FAs wins. So they may be a bit jaded themselves.
I think “hip” in isolation lacks the full meaning of what they are referring to. I’d say it might be a difference between “authentically hip” and “poser hip”.
“Authentically hip” would be pre-merger VX. That was who they were. Their core fans had an emotional connection to them, like all good brands do. It was about how they felt about themselves when flying VX. Totally normal for folks with whom identifying with the brand is important.
“Poser hip” would be post-merger VX+AS. Their previous core fans know that the brand is now part of something else - not genuine, pure VX. I’d imagine for the core VX folks, that’s worse than not flying with or being a part of VX at all. In essence, they’d lost their corporate soul, but were still trying to at least pretend to be “authentic hip”.
This is all my own feelings on it. I think for employees and core guests for whom connecting with an “authentically hip” brand was paramount to their satisfaction, it’s probably a very disappointing if not negative experience for them, and no amount of fruit n cheese plates or funky lighting is gonna change that. Therefore, for AS, it’s important to just move forward with who they are as a company, doing the best they can to connect with and include ex-VX crew and guests, but to also understand that for some, they’d rather just start fresh somewhere else (ie DL) than to feel like they are selling out or compromising themselves.
They claimed the FAs were “hip” even though the service element is now the same as Boeing aircraft. So I still am curious how the crew exemplified themselves as “hip”. Perhaps they meant “attractive”. I simply have found many of the VX to AS issues described on here as questionable. Before people complained about bad AS service even though they were likely on Airbus before the fairly recent route swaps, and now I see a claim about hip Airbus service after the Airbus and Boeing service is now the same. lol. It just doesn’t make sense.
CobaltScar wrote:"hip" and "culture" are tools to compensate for... real compensation. When your airline can't or won't pay industry average, you pay them in culture. This usually results in ensnaring disproportionately young applicants who don't yet know the importance of being paid in actual compensation over being paid in culture and image.
When the jig is up and your work force unionizes and demands actual compensation, you sell out. The process repeats itself with the next airline. See Moxy Airlines which I am positive will be showcasing what a great culture they have to applicants for their year zero seniority sub-industry standard wage positions.
Super88 wrote:Alaska Airlines can’t claim to be boeing only, saw
A sticker on the nose of a -900.....Virgin F/A’s have
Always been more relaxed and friendly.....
Use to fly them all the time....after the initial
Service, an announcement would be made, we
Wont be coming through the cabin much , so we
Dont want ro distub you......if you need
Anything you can order from your seat and we
Will bring it to you.....miss them
EA CO AS wrote:The overall emphasis is on the fact that it doesn't matter if you were hired by Alaska, Horizon, Jet America, or Virgin America - we're all one big combined group with the same goal - "Creating an Airline People Love."roll:
PlanesNTrains wrote:CobaltScar wrote:"hip" and "culture" are tools to compensate for... real compensation. When your airline can't or won't pay industry average, you pay them in culture. This usually results in ensnaring disproportionately young applicants who don't yet know the importance of being paid in actual compensation over being paid in culture and image.
When the jig is up and your work force unionizes and demands actual compensation, you sell out. The process repeats itself with the next airline. See Moxy Airlines which I am positive will be showcasing what a great culture they have to applicants for their year zero seniority sub-industry standard wage positions.
I still wonder why you stay at B6 when you are clearly choosing culture over compensation?
JBoy wrote:EA CO AS wrote:The overall emphasis is on the fact that it doesn't matter if you were hired by Alaska, Horizon, Jet America, or Virgin America - we're all one big combined group with the same goal - "Creating an Airline People Love."roll:
With all due respect. Horizon is kept separate when it comes to seniority so trying to lump them into that same group as the other carriers you lsted doesn't fly. I bet there is not one Horizon employee that will agree with the full scope of the house mpany until they are treated the same. AS management speaks as if they are the same company but those who work for AS and QX know that they aren't.
CobaltScar wrote:PlanesNTrains wrote:CobaltScar wrote:"hip" and "culture" are tools to compensate for... real compensation. When your airline can't or won't pay industry average, you pay them in culture. This usually results in ensnaring disproportionately young applicants who don't yet know the importance of being paid in actual compensation over being paid in culture and image.
When the jig is up and your work force unionizes and demands actual compensation, you sell out. The process repeats itself with the next airline. See Moxy Airlines which I am positive will be showcasing what a great culture they have to applicants for their year zero seniority sub-industry standard wage positions.
I still wonder why you stay at B6 when you are clearly choosing culture over compensation?
I don't claim to be affiliated with any airline!
PlanesNTrains wrote:CobaltScar wrote:PlanesNTrains wrote:
I still wonder why you stay at B6 when you are clearly choosing culture over compensation?
I don't claim to be affiliated with any airline!
My bad. I honestly thought based on your posting history that you worked for B6. My mistake.
JBoy wrote:EA CO AS wrote:The overall emphasis is on the fact that it doesn't matter if you were hired by Alaska, Horizon, Jet America, or Virgin America - we're all one big combined group with the same goal - "Creating an Airline People Love."
With all due respect. Horizon is kept separate when it comes to seniority so trying to lump them into that same group as the other carriers you lsted doesn't fly. I bet there is not one Horizon employee that will agree with the full scope of the house mpany until they are treated the same. AS management speaks as if they are the same company but those who work for AS and QX know that they aren't.
EIPremier wrote:I have heard multiple former VX F/As complain about the loss of seatback ordering, and personally this was a feature I really liked.
EA CO AS wrote:EIPremier wrote:I have heard multiple former VX F/As complain about the loss of seatback ordering, and personally this was a feature I really liked.
Interestingly, during early discussions on what onboard experience should look like, it was the VX inflight group who was the most vocal about wanting to be rid of seatback ordering, as it meant they were constantly on their feet for the entire flight; they were eager to go to standard cart runs! The AS inflight group was intrigued by the seatback ordering option, but knowing the hard IFE product was leaving, it meant taking that option away.
For now, anyway.
I've been told several times that the AS.com team is working on integrating at-seat ordering into the AS.com app. We'll see if it comes to fruition, though.
smflyer wrote:Thats good to hear! I was wondering why no airline has yet integrated food/drink ordering into their mobile app/website so passengers can order at will.
EA CO AS wrote:smflyer wrote:Thats good to hear! I was wondering why no airline has yet integrated food/drink ordering into their mobile app/website so passengers can order at will.
They've already gotten food pre-ordering integrated into the app; the user has the option to pre-order their meal during a window that lasts from between 2 weeks and 24 hours prior to departure. The on-demand feature during flight would be an extension of it down the line.
PlanesNTrains wrote:EA CO AS wrote:smflyer wrote:Thats good to hear! I was wondering why no airline has yet integrated food/drink ordering into their mobile app/website so passengers can order at will.
They've already gotten food pre-ordering integrated into the app; the user has the option to pre-order their meal during a window that lasts from between 2 weeks and 24 hours prior to departure. The on-demand feature during flight would be an extension of it down the line.
The challenge with on-demand ordering mid-flight off of an app is that the app will need to be able to view inventory in real-time. I'm assuming this was how it worked with the VX system but is the technology the same for using an app?
EA CO AS wrote:PlanesNTrains wrote:EA CO AS wrote:
They've already gotten food pre-ordering integrated into the app; the user has the option to pre-order their meal during a window that lasts from between 2 weeks and 24 hours prior to departure. The on-demand feature during flight would be an extension of it down the line.
The challenge with on-demand ordering mid-flight off of an app is that the app will need to be able to view inventory in real-time. I'm assuming this was how it worked with the VX system but is the technology the same for using an app?
I'm unsure of how the legacy-VX system worked regarding inventory, but the idea, I'm told, would be for the flight attendants to use their company-provided handhelds to view inventory and orders, and it would be updated via the satellite wifi that's currently rolling out fleetwide.
williaminsd wrote:It's done. VX is now nothing more than a lovely memory. For the crews, the overwhelming majority of whom are nothing short of a pure delight in the cabin and in the cockpit, I say do not let the dreary souls of negativity bring you down. You work for a superb airline with a fantastic product. No, it's not what Virgin was in 2010...