AA/US Airways integration status

richiemo · Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:53 am

Gang - I know this may be a dumb question all these years in, but is the AA/US merger complete in terms of equipment usage. In other words, will you find a legacy US plane on a legacy AA route (e.g. DFW to PHX.) It still seems to me as I travel around the country, legacy US planes are still widely used on legacy US routes and same trend with legacy AA planes/routes. Maybe this question applies largely to the A320 family of jets. I don't see A330s in DFW or JFK. And I don;t see 777s in CLT or PHL. Maybe it's just a question of having kept the old bases??? Just curious.

Cointrin330 · Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:59 am

Maintenance systems are not yet integrated, no.

alasizon · Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:02 am

The fleet integration is complete; just because you don't see 330s in DFW or 777s in CLT/PHL doesn't mean the integration isn't complete. The legacy bases simply just work best for those aircraft (why move whole bases of employees if you don't have to).

As far as the 320 series goes; its such a large family that they are intermingled every which way; but there are overall more LUS birds.

CLTRampRat · Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:05 am

NO.

-Sincerely everyone at CLT.

MO11 · Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:21 am

The US and AA fleets are still segregated by flight number blocks.

alasizon · Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:23 am

MO11 wrote:
The US and AA fleets are still segregated by flight number blocks.

Not anymore, after FOS on 10/18; its just a single flight number block.

airplanedaj · Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:24 am

I had a PHL based 737 crew flying BOS-ORD about a week ago, so there is some moving of fleets from L-AA markets into L-US. Like others have said, and particularly for types with fewer examples (A330, E190) it just doesn't make sense to move those, but some types are bleeding over.

jfk777 · Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:25 am

When the A330-300 go 777 & 787 will appear in CLT & PHL.

RyanairGuru · Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:33 am

So does this mean that pilots and flight attendants are already integrated?

IAmGaroott · Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:36 am

Let's not forget the many LAA 763's flying TATL out of PHL now.

chepos · Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:37 am

PHX has had plenty of LAA 738 action for a few years now, and many LUS Airbuses had been flying out of the DFW base. PRG/BUD/LIS/AMS/GLA/SNN all operated with LAA crews last summer out of PHL.

alasizon · Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:43 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
So does this mean that pilots and flight attendants are already integrated?

Yes. MX is the only large group still left to integrate.

chepos · Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:02 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
So does this mean that pilots and flight attendants are already integrated?

Yes

UA444 · Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:07 am

Have the MD-80s been on any ex-US routes?

Polot · Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:08 am

UA444 wrote:
Have the MD-80s been on any ex-US routes?

No. With so few and a shrinking fleet they are kept on DFW routes and a couple ORD routes. It doesn’t make sense to spread them to LUS hubs.

FSDan · Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:04 am

The LAA and LUS fleets have moved around some, but there hasn't been the same degree of swapping that was seen with DL/NW and UA/CO. The biggest movers have been the 738s (plenty in PHX and CLT, and some in PHL), and the LUS 321s (lots of them at DFW and quite a few at LAX). With the widebodies, it's really just the 763 fleet that has moved around, with PHL become one of the principle bases.

usairways85 · Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:32 am

Polot wrote:
UA444 wrote:
Have the MD-80s been on any ex-US routes?

No. With so few and a shrinking fleet they are kept on DFW routes and a couple ORD routes. It doesn’t make sense to spread them to LUS hubs.

I've seen 2 M80's make rare appearances at PHL the past few weeks. I did a double take at that AA tail and shiny frame when I saw them flying over.

Runway28L · Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:36 am

There has been quite a bit of metal swapping since the merger.

A few examples just by quickly scrolling through some schedules for tomorrow morning...

B738 (L-AA)
CLT-SAT/RIC/PBI/BWI/SXM/MSP/EWR/BOS/RDU/AUA/FLL
PHL-BOS/SAN/BDA
PHX-SMF/EWR/MSP/MEX/SNA/PDX/SJC/SLC/SAN

A319 (L-US)
DFW-IAH/MCI/CAE/MEM/MKE
ORD-ATL
MIA-STL/MSY
LAX-IAH/SJD/MEX/CMH/IND

A320 (L-US)
DFW-OAK

A321 (L-US)
DFW-ORD/SEA/BOS/SAN/TPA

fraspotter · Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:47 am

I've recently noticed a lot more 738s on CLT-RIC when it used to always be an A319/A320 route.

OKCDCA · Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:14 am

Can anyone provide some insight into the MX integration? I feel like we always hear about FA’s and pilots when mergers happen but not a lot from the MX side. I’m guessing their biggest issues when a merger happens are keeping the work for certain types where they are and the seniority integration but would like to know more.

airzona11 · Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:54 am

I just got an AA A321 with PTVs, awesome ride, on PHX to DFW, this is the first non-738 bird I have been on out of PHX that is not LUS.

PHLspecial · Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:31 am

jfk777 wrote:
When the A330-300 go 777 & 787 will appear in CLT & PHL.

The A330-300 is staying until the end of 2020. The 787 might show up for the 2020 summer season because of the 5 retirements of the B767. The 777 only shows up to PHL whenever those pesky Cowboys come to town. I highly doubt PHL will see the from AA 777 in the near future.

usairways787 · Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:54 am

alasizon wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
So does this mean that pilots and flight attendants are already integrated?

Yes. MX is the only large group still left to integrate.

Wrong, anyone below wing is still not integrated as negotiations have been sent to section 6 mediation. Been in "talks" for 3 years.

US787

MAH4546 · Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:14 am

In terms on integrating US Airways' horrendous customer service, poor on board product, toxic employees and "I don't care attitude," they successfully fully integrated.

RyanairGuru · Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:01 pm

alasizon wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
So does this mean that pilots and flight attendants are already integrated?

Yes. MX is the only large group still left to integrate.

Well that was lightning fast compared to United! Their pilots have been integrated for a few years but the flight attendants only started flying together in October.

Polot · Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:26 pm

usairways85 wrote:
Polot wrote:
UA444 wrote:
Have the MD-80s been on any ex-US routes?

No. With so few and a shrinking fleet they are kept on DFW routes and a couple ORD routes. It doesn’t make sense to spread them to LUS hubs.

I've seen 2 M80's make rare appearances at PHL the past few weeks. I did a double take at that AA tail and shiny frame when I saw them flying over.

Yes- flying DFW-PHL. I’m not sure I would call that an exUS route, considering that is also a pre merger AA route as well.

bigb · Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:59 pm

It seems to me that AA is awaiting for the retirement wave to open up new fleet bases in L-US bases until the the retirement wave hit for example, opening up a 737 base in CLT or PHL. That is a rumbling I've heard coming from the flight academy.

WA707atMSP · Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:47 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
In terms on integrating US Airways' horrendous customer service, poor on board product, toxic employees and "I don't care attitude," they successfully fully integrated.

Exactly. I'm sure C R Smith, Marion Sadler, and Al Casey would be horrified at how an airline that was once "America's Leading Airline" has employees who no longer "do what they do best". It's very sad that a once-great airline has been destroyed.

Flighty · Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:59 pm

Legacy AA had their day. Its business model failed. Its leadership was shut down. I think it's accurate to say the old AA is no more. The logic and philosophy behind that company didn't work. I hope the new company works, for everybody's sake, or maybe it will need to reboot again.

UAL is on about version 4.0 of their business. AA is a valuable franchise and deserves to be run correctly. Whatever that is.

DeltaRules · Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:08 pm

Runway28L wrote:
A319 (L-US)
LAX-IAH/SJD/MEX/CMH/IND

LAX-CMH was a US Airways flight for about a year. Some of the others might have been in the same boat.

PHLspecial wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
When the A330-300 go 777 & 787 will appear in CLT & PHL.

The A330-300 is staying until the end of 2020. The 787 might show up for the 2020 summer season because of the 5 retirements of the B767. The 777 only shows up to PHL whenever those pesky Cowboys come to town. I highly doubt PHL will see the from AA 777 in the near future.

I thought the A330-300s were being kept longer.

csweet · Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:17 pm

Interior upgrades are definitely non existent for those legacy planes, sheesh

TWFlyGuy · Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:24 pm

Flighty wrote:
Legacy AA had their day. Its business model failed. Its leadership was shut down. I think it's accurate to say the old AA is no more. The logic and philosophy behind that company didn't work. I hope the new company works, for everybody's sake, or maybe it will need to reboot again.

UAL is on about version 4.0 of their business. AA is a valuable franchise and deserves to be run correctly. Whatever that is.

Keep in mind that AMR went in to bankruptcy with no need to seek DIP financing because they had $5B in cash on hand. They entered mostly to drop the pension funds. The CEO, for all his faults, didn't want to go in because he felt a moral obligation given their cash position to find ways to continue to fund the pensions and rebuild the company. The problem was that creditors were not as willing to take cuts or missed payments as long as employees were going to continue to get their benefits. Creditors didn't care that existing shareholders would lose as they would become the new shareholders.

TWFlyGuy · Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:26 pm

PHLspecial wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
When the A330-300 go 777 & 787 will appear in CLT & PHL.

The A330-300 is staying until the end of 2020. The 787 might show up for the 2020 summer season because of the 5 retirements of the B767. The 777 only shows up to PHL whenever those pesky Cowboys come to town. I highly doubt PHL will see the from AA 777 in the near future.

The one route I expected 777's to switch over to LUS hubs was LHR from PHL & CLT just for commonality in LHR. Though they may be short on 777's overall so it wasn't as pressing.

kickazzz2000 · Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:44 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
In terms on integrating US Airways' horrendous customer service, poor on board product, toxic employees and "I don't care attitude," they successfully fully integrated.

Thats interesting, because I only get a pre-departure drink when its a LUS crew. I guess domestic F is beneath LAA people.

RDUDDJI · Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:09 pm

CLTRampRat wrote:
NO.

-Sincerely everyone at CLT.

Hahaha, but true.

I'd say the AA/US merger is going about as well as the AA/TW and US/HP mergers. Are those even finished yet?

Austin787 · Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:58 pm

LAA flight attendants are now advertising the credit card. When the LUS flight attendants start becoming hit or miss regarding PDBs we will know the flight attendants are fully integrated.

As for airplanes, once Project Oasis is complete most of the fleet will be standardized.

N649DL · Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:59 pm

Runway28L wrote:
There has been quite a bit of metal swapping since the merger.

A few examples just by quickly scrolling through some schedules for tomorrow morning...

B738 (L-AA)
CLT-SAT/RIC/PBI/BWI/SXM/MSP/EWR/BOS/RDU/AUA/FLL
PHL-BOS/SAN/BDA
PHX-SMF/EWR/MSP/MEX/SNA/PDX/SJC/SLC/SAN

A319 (L-US)
DFW-IAH/MCI/CAE/MEM/MKE
ORD-ATL
MIA-STL/MSY
LAX-IAH/SJD/MEX/CMH/IND

A320 (L-US)
DFW-OAK

A321 (L-US)
DFW-ORD/SEA/BOS/SAN/TPA

I definitely remember that there was some more L-US 319 action at MIA and LAX for a while. Like LAX-IAD/RDU and MIA-TPA.

That would be a trip to see AA MD-80s on random ex-US routes like PHL-ATL or CLT-SYR or something like that.

Does that mean L-AA has bases set up at PHX for all the 738 flying or is it just L-AA crews doing turns from other bases?

csweet · Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:05 pm

Austin787 wrote:
LAA flight attendants are now advertising the credit card. When the LUS flight attendants start becoming hit or miss regarding PDBs we will know the flight attendants are fully integrated.

As for airplanes, once Project Oasis is complete most of the fleet will be standardized.

What is the timeline for this?

PRAirbus · Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:21 pm

There are remarkable differences between LUS and LAA fleets. Majority of LUS fleet is still bare bones; very spartan like going back to 1990s. I avoid booking flights operated by LUS planes.

chonetsao · Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:54 pm

Flighty wrote:
Legacy AA had their day. Its business model failed. Its leadership was shut down. I think it's accurate to say the old AA is no more. The logic and philosophy behind that company didn't work. I hope the new company works, for everybody's sake, or maybe it will need to reboot again.

UAL is on about version 4.0 of their business. AA is a valuable franchise and deserves to be run correctly. Whatever that is.

LAA did not fail. The only reason AA asked for chapter 11 protection is due to the largest aircraft order from Boeing and Airbus in history. That commitment effectively ballooned the liabilities so that US Airways can take over AA. It was a calculated move by both US Airways and AA to force a merger. If AA did not commit to this merger, it would be US Airways to fail spectacularly due to HP merger related problems. You need to refer back to news broadcaster in Bloomberg and WSJ to understand the sequences.

nomorerjs · Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:56 pm

TWFlyGuy wrote:
PHLspecial wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
When the A330-300 go 777 & 787 will appear in CLT & PHL.

The A330-300 is staying until the end of 2020. The 787 might show up for the 2020 summer season because of the 5 retirements of the B767. The 777 only shows up to PHL whenever those pesky Cowboys come to town. I highly doubt PHL will see the from AA 777 in the near future.

The one route I expected 777's to switch over to LUS hubs was LHR from PHL & CLT just for commonality in LHR. Though they may be short on 777's overall so it wasn't as pressing.

Not to be picky, LHR-PHL/CLT is two routes. Also ORD will be 3x789 and 1x788 this summer.

AA could make LHR all 777, but what would happen to ORD? I would expect 787s in PHL / CLT (and MIA) some time in the future.

alasizon · Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:00 am

usairways787 wrote:
Wrong, anyone below wing is still not integrated as negotiations have been sent to section 6 mediation. Been in "talks" for 3 years.

US787

Its splitting hairs. The helping hand initiative made fleet service integrated when it comes to the actual operation. When it comes to an actual contract; that is a different story.

Wacker1000 · Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:11 am

usairways787 wrote:
alasizon wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
So does this mean that pilots and flight attendants are already integrated?

Yes. MX is the only large group still left to integrate.

Wrong, anyone below wing is still not integrated as negotiations have been sent to section 6 mediation. Been in "talks" for 3 years.

US787

And after 3 years people still haven't figure out that you need to send professionals to the negotiating table and be willing to negotiate - same mistake the HP/US pilots made (but look how well that plan worked for them!)

Flighty wrote:
Legacy AA had their day. Its business model failed. Its leadership was shut down. I think it's accurate to say the old AA is no more. The logic and philosophy behind that company didn't work. I hope the new company works, for everybody's sake, or maybe it will need to reboot again.

That news hasn't made it to DFW. That trench is deep and has been around for decades. As they say, old habits die hard.

usairways787 · Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:00 am

alasizon wrote:
usairways787 wrote:
Wrong, anyone below wing is still not integrated as negotiations have been sent to section 6 mediation. Been in "talks" for 3 years.

US787

Its splitting hairs. The helping hand initiative made fleet service integrated when it comes to the actual operation. When it comes to an actual contract; that is a different story.

Actually no, we can't touch their stuff, so there are still some things we can do, and things they can't vice versa.

usairways787 · Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:01 am

Wacker1000 wrote:
usairways787 wrote:
alasizon wrote:

Yes. MX is the only large group still left to integrate.

Wrong, anyone below wing is still not integrated as negotiations have been sent to section 6 mediation. Been in "talks" for 3 years.

US787

And after 3 years people still haven't figure out that you need to send professionals to the negotiating table and be willing to negotiate - same mistake the HP/US pilots made (but look how well that plan worked for them!)

Flighty wrote:
Legacy AA had their day. Its business model failed. Its leadership was shut down. I think it's accurate to say the old AA is no more. The logic and philosophy behind that company didn't work. I hope the new company works, for everybody's sake, or maybe it will need to reboot again.

That news hasn't made it to DFW. That trench is deep and has been around for decades. As they say, old habits die hard.

Haha, you ain't lying. TWU needs to take over, IAM is dysfunctional, and always will be.

Miamiairport · Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:48 pm

With the intergration now of FAs I suspect we will see more fleet intergration.

OB1504 · Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:59 pm

PRAirbus wrote:
There are remarkable differences between LUS and LAA fleets. Majority of LUS fleet is still bare bones; very spartan like going back to 1990s. I avoid booking flights operated by LUS planes.

You would rather be on an ancient LAA 767 than a comfortable LUS A321?

slowrambler · Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:30 pm

OB1504 wrote:
PRAirbus wrote:
There are remarkable differences between LUS and LAA fleets. Majority of LUS fleet is still bare bones; very spartan like going back to 1990s. I avoid booking flights operated by LUS planes.

You would rather be on an ancient LAA 767 than a comfortable LUS A321?

Obviously! All LAA things are perfection, and all LUS things are trash.

Seriously, being used to LUS 330s, the first time I stepped onto a (pre-refurb) LAA 772 JFK-LHR made me wonder why anyone thought it was a "premium airline" - the hard product was utterly miserable. The simple reason that LAA narrowbodies are "nicer" is because they were ordered later. Unless seatback IFE is your dealbreaker (and the LAA fleet is hardly consistent with that), the retrofit LUS A319s are just as fine as the LAA ones, and the 321s are going to get the same treatment soon.

AAtakeMeAway · Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:37 pm

kickazzz2000 wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
In terms on integrating US Airways' horrendous customer service, poor on board product, toxic employees and "I don't care attitude," they successfully fully integrated.

Thats interesting, because I only get a pre-departure drink when its a LUS crew. I guess domestic F is beneath LAA people.

LUS or regionals. LAA was an inconsistent mess for many years prior to the merger. LUS crew seem much more consistent especially with regards to following service standards.

UpNAWAy · Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:26 am

Just look at the current operations, especially on the maintenance side. The LAA hubs struggle when compared to the LUS hubs.
LAA has a lot of beurocracy and what I would just call doing things the same way even thought the results are way less than ideal.

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