Cunard,

Cathay flew the 747-200 not the -300 Classic on the inaugural non stop HKG- LGW service, the -300 mostly flew regional and shorter sectors


I’ve never seen a picture of a CX Lockheed Constellation, this is interesting, do you have any pictures or more information on their use of this aircraft ?


In that era I know they used DC 3, 4 and 6 types then progressed to the turboprop Lockheed Electra

With my wealth of knowledge regarding this topic and my in depth analysis of the subject your trying to correct me!

Please do me a favour, in no way have I mentioned in any of my posts on this thread that Cathay Pacific used the Boeing 747-300 classic on their inaugural flight from HKG to LGW.

Cathay Pacific inaugural flight from Hong Kong Kai Tak Airport to London Gatwick Airport via Bahrain departed HKG on Wednesday 16 December 1980 arriving the following morning at LGW on Thursday 17 October 1980, the aircraft was BOEING 747-267B Registration VR-HKG which was the airlines first B747-267B to enter the fleet the year before in August 1979 and was put into service between HKG and Sydney a route that was previously flown by the airlines B707-320C.

The inaugural Cathay Pacific flight back to HKG via BAH departed LGW at 11.00

I WAS ON THE SPECTATORS BALCONY AT LONDON GATWICK AIRPORT ON THAT HOT SUMMER DAY OF THURSDAY 17 JULY 1980 TO WITNESS THE ARRIVAL OF VR-HKG A BOEING 747-267B.

Now I'm sure that your aware of the fact that the B747-300 classic did not come into operation until 1983 of which Cathay Pacific had ordered six Boeing 747-367B.

Considering that the inaugural flight HKG-BAH-LGW was in July 1980 and Cathay Pacific received their first of six Boeing 747-367B in July 1983 I find it very unlikely that I had stated that the inaugural flight was on a B747-300 classic.

Cathay Pacific did indeed use the B747-367B to LGW and there are several photos showing them at LGW not only on airliners.net but elsewhere online with lots on Flickr.

Cathay Pacific did use their Boeing 747-367B Classic on regional flights replacing their L10-11-100s BUT they initially used them to LGW as well as to FRA.

In 1989 Cathay Pacific received their first Boeing 747-467 which was used on the airlines European and North American flights with the B747-367 flying shorter and regional flights.

I suggest that you look for yourself and whilst your at it go to Cathay Pacific's website and head straight to their history page to find out more about their history and their historic fleet which not only included the aircraft that you have quoted but also the Lockheed Constellation which your obviously doubting.

I don't what your upto but this topic is very personal and as you can see from my posts within this thread the amount of responses I've had regarding my knowledge of the subject and then I get you not only doubting the information regarding the Lockheed Constellation but suggesting that I had mistaken the Boeing 747-267B with a Boeing 747-367B on the inaugural flight to LGW in 1980.

Personally I think that you just wanted to make a remark just for the sake of it, next time don't!

Cunard wrote:

I find it very unlikely that I had stated that the inaugural flight was on a B747-300 classic.

If you read his post again, you'll see he didn't say you said that.

Cathay Pacific Constellations -- don't see any mention of Cathay in Marson's book. Anyone else find it?

10/59 OAG shows a weekly Electra Hong Kong to Manila to Darwin to Sydney. Don't have any OAGs between then and 5/59 -- in that issue Cathay doesn't fly beyond Singapore, Borneo and Manila. Ditto the 2/59, 8/58, 5/58, 1/58 and 4/57.

Cunard wrote:

bens wrote:

I wonder if non-stop flights between Europe and Hong Kong were routed over Soviet and Chinese airspace during the 1980s.

(I am not a flight expert but a PhD student in economics and I am studying these flights for a research project. I would be very thankful for any relevant input!)

Background:
The Soviet and Chinese airspace was very restricted during this time and few airlines were granted non-stop overflight rights. From studying old ABC timetables from 1980 to 1989 at the British Library I found that in 1984, CX was the first airline to introduce a non-stop flight between Europe and Hong Kong. This was a non-stop flight from London to HK, non-stop HK to London was introduced the year after. CX also added Frankfurt-HK and Rome-HK in 1986. LH started flying Frankfurt-HK in 1986. BA/BR started flying London-HK in 1987. While I know this, I do not know how these non-stop flights were routed. I am fairly certain that all airlines must have entered Chinese airspace at some point but I have some sources that seem to indicate that CX initially avoided Soviet airspace. Other than that, I have no information when these airlines gained Chinese and Soviet overflight rights and how these routes might have evolved.

BA British Airways had been flying to Hong Kong RAF Kai Tak for many years long before 1987!

Throughout the fifties right up until 1980 the Hong Kong flights were routed through various destinations in the Middle East, India and Southern Asia.

From 1980 British Airways flew LHR to HKG via either AUH/BAH/DXB with B747-200 and on some schedules the L10-500.

BR British Caledonian Airways inaugurated LGW-DXB-HKG on the 25 July 1980 initially with DC10-30 but the route was soon upguaged to the B747.

CX Cathay Pacific inaugurated HKG-BAH-LGW on the 16 July 1980 with B747-200.

CX Cathay Pacific inaugurated a second daily flight in 1983 with an evening departure Ex LGW at 18.00 operating 4 times weekly in addition to the airlines existing daily flight that departed LGW at 11.00.

A direct non stop HKG to LGW flight was inaugurated in 1984 after the airline took delivery of the B747-300.

From 1984 after the delivery of the B747-300 Cathay Pacific flew twice daily from HKG to LGW one via BAH the other non stop.

When CX purchased the B747-400 in 1989 HKG to LGW then went non stop, CX moved their London flights to LHR in September 1991.

Cunard


You might want to look at your words in the third paragraph from the bottom



Do you have any more information on Cathay’s use of the Constellation ?

Did you mean Bristol Britannia, CX leased two from BOAC pending the arrival of Electra and Electra left by 67 after the 5th CV880 arrived

Having read the posts above, is this not just a simple misunderstanding?

The inaugural Cathay Pacific to the UK was a one-stop in 1980 from Hong Kong - Bahrain - Gatwick. This was the 747-200.

The inaugural Cathay Pacific (non-stop) to the UK was in 1984, direct from Hong Kong -Gatwick. This was the 747-300.

I have no idea if the above is correct, but just pointing out where the confusion seems to lie. Inaugural one-stop v. non-stop.

BritishB747 wrote:

Having read the posts above, is this not just a simple misunderstanding?

The inaugural Cathay Pacific to the UK was a one-stop in 1980 from Hong Kong - Bahrain - Gatwick. This was the 747-200.

The inaugural Cathay Pacific (non-stop) to the UK was in 1984, direct from Hong Kong -Gatwick. This was the 747-300.

I have no idea if the above is correct, but just pointing out where the confusion seems to lie. Inaugural one-stop v. non-stop.

Except that is not correct



The inaugural non stop from HKG to LGW
was operated with the 747-200

Max Q wrote:

BritishB747 wrote:

Having read the posts above, is this not just a simple misunderstanding?

The inaugural Cathay Pacific to the UK was a one-stop in 1980 from Hong Kong - Bahrain - Gatwick. This was the 747-200.

The inaugural Cathay Pacific (non-stop) to the UK was in 1984, direct from Hong Kong -Gatwick. This was the 747-300.

I have no idea if the above is correct, but just pointing out where the confusion seems to lie. Inaugural one-stop v. non-stop.

Except that is not correct



The inaugural non stop from HKG to LGW
was operated with the 747-200

Well I shall give up on this one then. The bickering is off topic anyway and has little to do with the routing of Europe-HKG flights. It has become about a relatively small detail with one airline. Enjoy the thread.

I read above that CAAC had the interesting routing to/from Europe though Sharjah. Was CAAC not able to fly over soviet airspace for those routes?