sargester
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Silver (3M) to start DAB-FLL in January

Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:50 pm

Interesting choice, with the exit of JetBlue from the market, they can slightly stay in with their partnership with 3M and can possibly connect people for UA if they feel like connecting through FLL

Thought? Thanks lads

Source: https://www.news-journalonline.com/news ... le-flights
 
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enilria
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Re: Silver (3M) to start DAB-FLL in January

Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:55 pm

Problem 1: Silver has a poor history with sticking in new markets. Problem 2: DAB has a poor history of keeping new markets. Seems star-crossed to quote Shakespeare.
 
evank516
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Re: Silver (3M) to start DAB-FLL in January

Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:01 pm

I thought this would have been a great idea before B6 announced their discontinuation of JFK-DAB. It's still good as it allows for access to the B6 network and also allow an unofficial return for United as well. This is actually a great add!
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Silver (3M) to start DAB-FLL in January

Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:06 pm

Sad end to B6 in DAB.

Seems to involve a marginal route, high fees, and costs associated with the runway construction.

Hopefully UA will start EWR. That’s the only chance they have for a regular nonstop to NY.

As for this announcement, what a joke.

And any money thrown towards this is sad
Last edited by jfklganyc on Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
DeltaRules
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Re: Silver (3M) to start DAB-FLL in January

Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:08 pm

enilria wrote:
Problem 1: Silver has a poor history with sticking in new markets. Problem 2: DAB has a poor history of keeping new markets. Seems star-crossed to quote Shakespeare.


I think this could work. DAB passengers have to travel north to go south at this point regardless of airline. This allows a more direct route to the Caribbean/South America and keeps B6's foot in the door.
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evank516
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Re: Silver (3M) to start DAB-FLL in January

Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:10 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Sad end to B6 in DAB.

Seems to involve a marginal route, high fees, and costs associated with the runway construction.

Hopefully UA will start EWR. That’s the only chance they have for a regular nonstop to NY.

As for this announcement, what a joke.

And any money thrown towards this is sad


I wouldn't say it's the only chance. I still think the door may be open for DL to add LGA in the future. The A220 may be a good performer on that route.

I actually think this is a good add as long as Silver can be reliable.
 
tphuang
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Re: Silver (3M) to start DAB-FLL in January

Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:28 pm

evank516 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Sad end to B6 in DAB.

Seems to involve a marginal route, high fees, and costs associated with the runway construction.

Hopefully UA will start EWR. That’s the only chance they have for a regular nonstop to NY.

As for this announcement, what a joke.

And any money thrown towards this is sad


I wouldn't say it's the only chance. I still think the door may be open for DL to add LGA in the future. The A220 may be a good performer on that route.

I actually think this is a good add as long as Silver can be reliable.


You said it yourself. You'd rather transfer at ATL than fly the direct on B6 because it's only once a day. And you are wondering why they cut it. Why in the world would DL put a JFK slot on this route much less use a valuable A220 on a route they already own through ATL?
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Silver (3M) to start DAB-FLL in January

Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:36 pm

Yes United is their best chance at getting sustainable NYC service. I would think they could make 2x E175 work to EWR. That would also allow DAB customers to connect to UA's unique international destinations at EWR.
 
F27500
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Re: Silver (3M) to start DAB-FLL in January

Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:51 pm

Didn't realize B6 was discontinuing DAB. Wonder if they would consider MLB?
 
evank516
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Re: Silver (3M) to start DAB-FLL in January

Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:57 pm

tphuang wrote:
evank516 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Sad end to B6 in DAB.

Seems to involve a marginal route, high fees, and costs associated with the runway construction.

Hopefully UA will start EWR. That’s the only chance they have for a regular nonstop to NY.

As for this announcement, what a joke.

And any money thrown towards this is sad


I wouldn't say it's the only chance. I still think the door may be open for DL to add LGA in the future. The A220 may be a good performer on that route.

I actually think this is a good add as long as Silver can be reliable.


You said it yourself. You'd rather transfer at ATL than fly the direct on B6 because it's only once a day. And you are wondering why they cut it. Why in the world would DL put a JFK slot on this route much less use a valuable A220 on a route they already own through ATL?


There's a huge difference between DL flying NYC-DAB and the level of service B6 offered on the route. And for the record, until October I was hardcore loyal to that B6 flight. I exclusively used it for any DAB related travel from 2016 until this year. What's the difference between DL flying LGA/JFK-DAB (mind you it would most likely be LGA and has been done multiple times in the past)? Let's see, while DL may only fly LGA-DAB once a day, you have the back up if something happens and the flight gets cancelled. You have the option to be re-routed through ATL while keeping your original city pairs in the event of an IRROPS situation. B6's service level at DAB was simply one flight per day. There was no alternative. None. If my flight out of DAB got cancelled then I was stuck until I could get on the next available flight which could be the next day, 2 days later, 3 days. With DL I would most likely be re-routed on a flight through ATL and back to NYC. It's not nonstop but at least I can still get out on the same day.

What we know from B6 flying to DAB is that they filled up the plane enough to justify an aircraft of at least 100 seats. Their loads were never lower than 67% on a 150 passenger Airbus A320, come to think of it, I don't even think they were lower than 75% filled and I believe the average LF was 84%. 67% of 150 is 100. In addition, Delta offers a premium cabin on the majority of the aircraft in their fleet with the CRJ-200 being the only one without and that would never be offered on an NYC-DAB flight by Delta. We also know from past experience that Delta wouldn't hesitate to charge a premium for an NYC flight as they had repeatedly done in the past. DAB also hosts a large FF base for Delta since they've been in town since 1979 without any service interruptions. Shall I continue before we return to the original subject of this thread which is 3M announcing FLL-DAB?
 
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Re: Silver (3M) to start DAB-FLL in January

Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:20 pm

Launch date is 1-16-19.
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jfklganyc
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Re: Silver (3M) to start DAB-FLL in January

Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:31 pm

Load Factor has plummeted since they announced cancellation.

The LF was never very good for NY-Florida.

B6 is in bad financial shape.

The airport authority is a bit inept and has high fees.

Put together, it just didn’t work

DL May offer one off RJ service during high season...but a daily NY flight isn’t happening...because they have no incentive to do it.

UA just resumed SRQ and announced PNS. I think EWR DAB stands a chance on them
 
evank516
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Re: Silver (3M) to start DAB-FLL in January

Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:38 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Load Factor has plummeted since they announced cancellation.

The LF was never very good for NY-Florida.

B6 is in bad financial shape.

The airport authority is a bit inept and has high fees.

Put together, it just didn’t work

DL May offer one off RJ service during high season...but a daily NY flight isn’t happening...because they have no incentive to do it.

UA just resumed SRQ and announced PNS. I think EWR DAB stands a chance on them


What fees are high? Landing fees are cheaper than MCO. PFCs are capped.

They flew an A320 once per day when it should have been an E190 twice a day. That's neither here nor there anymore, the route has been cancelled. UA isn't going back either, bad blood dating back to AirTran.
 
TheLunchbox
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Re: Silver (3M) to start DAB-FLL in January

Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:51 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Load Factor has plummeted since they announced cancellation.

The LF was never very good for NY-Florida.

B6 is in bad financial shape.

The airport authority is a bit inept and has high fees.

Put together, it just didn’t work

DL May offer one off RJ service during high season...but a daily NY flight isn’t happening...because they have no incentive to do it.

UA just resumed SRQ and announced PNS. I think EWR DAB stands a chance on them


Bad financial shape? Explain.

LF plummeted? It's the off-season for the entire industry. LF's are down across the board.
 
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Re: Silver (3M) to start DAB-FLL in January

Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:05 pm

sargester wrote:
Interesting choice, with the exit of JetBlue from the market, they can slightly stay in with their partnership with 3M and can possibly connect people for UA if they feel like connecting through FLL

Thought? Thanks lads


I don't really see the point. O&D will be basically non-existent since the drive to Fort Lauderdale is a bit over three hours and the flight is once daily in each direction. To most major markets southbound one can go non-stop from MCO which is about an hour away.
 
tphuang
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Re: Silver (3M) to start DAB-FLL in January

Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:10 pm

I don't think you are getting the point here. DAB is a small station. In order to support a non-stop flight (or multiple daily as you are hoping for), it would need to generate much higher yield than a station like MCO or TPA. The smaller aircraft they use, whether it's E75 or E90 or CRJ-900, they have to generate even higher yield than A320 or B737 to make up for the higher cost. So just filling 75% of a flight isn't sufficient. DL doesn't do a lot of single daily flight to small station out of JFK, because it's far easier to do it through their mega hub in ATL (or even MSP/SLC for west coast stuff) where they are not constrained about # of slots and ATC issues. And without B6 competition, they can now charge you a lot more money to be routed through ATL. That's what DL does. They are a high fare carrier. Out of NYC, it's always going to be B6 out of JFK (because they are P2P carrier) or UA out of EWR (because they have no slot restrictions) to the smaller leisure stations like DAB.
 
evank516
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Re: Silver (3M) to start DAB-FLL in January

Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:24 pm

ScottB wrote:
sargester wrote:
Interesting choice, with the exit of JetBlue from the market, they can slightly stay in with their partnership with 3M and can possibly connect people for UA if they feel like connecting through FLL

Thought? Thanks lads


I don't really see the point. O&D will be basically non-existent since the drive to Fort Lauderdale is a bit over three hours and the flight is once daily in each direction. To most major markets southbound one can go non-stop from MCO which is about an hour away.


It's longer than an hour. You're forgetting I-4 traffic, tolls, any possible traffic on SR 417. It's not a direct route from DAB to MCO, it's quite a roundabout way to get there. Let's not also forget the approximately 40 mins to clear security in MCO. This should also feed B6's growing operation in FLL. DAB is an easy airport, and maybe this will make others reconsider flying instead of driving to FLL, which by the way is more like 4 hours. It's 3.5 hours to Boca which is still 30-40 mins from FLL not including traffic down I-95 or the Turnpike once you make your way into the Palm Beach Area. Also, with flights from MCO-FLL in existence, there's no reason DAB can't exist either. They're roughly the same driving time. The flight is also relatively well timed for business travelers to make a day trip to the FLL area. Flying out of DAB requires arriving a MAXIMUM of 1 hour prior to scheduled departure (I've pulled off 35 mins including baggage check, a smoke break, and TSA in the early morning and made it to the gate with 5 mins to spare before boarding commenced). If you're not checking bags you literally need 30 mins and you might still be able to pull of taking a dump before your flight leaves. They're using the SAABs so the pax capacity is 34. Might be slow to start, but it'll probably improve over time. Also there's Spring Break traffic on both ends so March and April will do well. DAB is also not as warm as South Florida in the winter, boom, easy getaway. Now you can fly DAB-EYW via FLL if you want to go to the Keys. Bottom line, this opens up opportunities for DAB who hasn't had any southbound flights in 20 years to an airport that is experiencing a rapid boom in growth.
 
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Re: Silver (3M) to start DAB-FLL in January

Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:33 pm

tphuang wrote:
I don't think you are getting the point here. DAB is a small station. In order to support a non-stop flight (or multiple daily as you are hoping for), it would need to generate much higher yield than a station like MCO or TPA. The smaller aircraft they use, whether it's E75 or E90 or CRJ-900, they have to generate even higher yield than A320 or B737 to make up for the higher cost. So just filling 75% of a flight isn't sufficient. DL doesn't do a lot of single daily flight to small station out of JFK, because it's far easier to do it through their mega hub in ATL (or even MSP/SLC for west coast stuff) where they are not constrained about # of slots and ATC issues. And without B6 competition, they can now charge you a lot more money to be routed through ATL. That's what DL does. They are a high fare carrier. Out of NYC, it's always going to be B6 out of JFK (because they are P2P carrier) or UA out of EWR (because they have no slot restrictions) to the smaller leisure stations like DAB.


You're taking my words out of context. When I mentioned 75% loads, it was essentially to show that at no time did B6 393/500 operate with less than 100 souls on board that A320, and that loads never went below 75% in the first place which is about 112 passengers. Never was I saying that 75% of the plane would be sufficient. At NO POINT did I say that DL would pick up and fly JFK-DAB. The better possibility is LGA as Delta has done quite a few times over the years. I'm well aware they have to generate higher yield out of DAB over MCO. Well aware. I've paid close attention whenever DL offered LGA flights out of DAB and they certainly charged a premium fare for it. I specifically mentioned the A220 because of the claims of efficiency. Maybe it could be the answer to the issue. Maybe it won't. I'm a Native Long Islander, and I've been traveling to and from DAB for 28 years. I know the airport, I know the market, I've studied it for over a decade. I also know that DAB is probably already talking to Delta about offering an LGA flight. Guarantee you.

I'm not responding to anymore arguments about NYC-DAB on this thread, if you want to continue there is a specific thread for this type of discussion. This thread is about Silver and DAB.
 
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Re: Silver (3M) to start DAB-FLL in January

Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:38 pm

I agree about the Orlando vs. Daytona debate. MCO is sometimes as, if not more, expensive than DAB, which makes Daytona favorable as there's no commute.

evank516 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Load Factor has plummeted since they announced cancellation.

The LF was never very good for NY-Florida.

B6 is in bad financial shape.

The airport authority is a bit inept and has high fees.

Put together, it just didn’t work

DL May offer one off RJ service during high season...but a daily NY flight isn’t happening...because they have no incentive to do it.

UA just resumed SRQ and announced PNS. I think EWR DAB stands a chance on them


What fees are high? Landing fees are cheaper than MCO. PFCs are capped.

They flew an A320 once per day when it should have been an E190 twice a day. That's neither here nor there anymore, the route has been cancelled. UA isn't going back either, bad blood dating back to AirTran.
My question is is today's UA Continental enough to look past what happened when AirTran came to town and made them mad? The point I'm trying to make is I don't remember hearing Continental leaving on bad terms.

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Last edited by DeltaRules on Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Silver (3M) to start DAB-FLL in January

Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:40 pm

I can't remember if Florida Coastal or VPJ/Vintage Props did this route, but I remember one of them did it. Was an early morning flight southbound, and evening return.
xx
 
evank516
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Re: Silver (3M) to start DAB-FLL in January

Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:05 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
I agree about the Orlando vs. Daytona debate. MCO is sometimes as, if not more, expensive than DAB, which makes Daytona favorable as there's no commute.

evank516 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Load Factor has plummeted since they announced cancellation.

The LF was never very good for NY-Florida.

B6 is in bad financial shape.

The airport authority is a bit inept and has high fees.

Put together, it just didn’t work

DL May offer one off RJ service during high season...but a daily NY flight isn’t happening...because they have no incentive to do it.

UA just resumed SRQ and announced PNS. I think EWR DAB stands a chance on them


What fees are high? Landing fees are cheaper than MCO. PFCs are capped.

They flew an A320 once per day when it should have been an E190 twice a day. That's neither here nor there anymore, the route has been cancelled. UA isn't going back either, bad blood dating back to AirTran.
My question is is today's UA Continental enough to look past what happened when AirTran came to town and made them mad? The point I'm trying to make is I don't remember hearing Continental leaving on bad terms.

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I don't think Continental left on bad terms either. They ended in 2008 in the midst of that oil crisis and recession we were in. The flight was 1-2 daily depending on the season and the aircraft used ranged from the ERJ to the 735. I suppose the question is how much of LUA management is in charge of route planning.
 
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Re: Silver (3M) to start DAB-FLL in January

Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:16 pm

I can't see how this would be competitive against the car for O&D passengers, nor competitive for pax connecting beyond FLL that in most cases could fly nonstop from MCO. It's a shame B6 didn't work out, though a p2p ULCC like F9 or G4 may be a much better fit for DAB anyhow...
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
evank516
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Re: Silver (3M) to start DAB-FLL in January

Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:21 pm

SurfandSnow wrote:
I can't see how this would be competitive against the car for O&D passengers, nor competitive for pax connecting beyond FLL that in most cases could fly nonstop from MCO. It's a shame B6 didn't work out, though a p2p ULCC like F9 or G4 may be a much better fit for DAB anyhow...


Ask me why I'll connect in ATL instead of flying nonstop to Orlando when I visit Ormond Beach.
 
LatinAirliner
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Re: Silver (3M) to start DAB-FLL in January

Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:00 pm

SurfandSnow wrote:
I can't see how this would be competitive against the car for O&D passengers, nor competitive for pax connecting beyond FLL that in most cases could fly nonstop from MCO. It's a shame B6 didn't work out, though a p2p ULCC like F9 or G4 may be a much better fit for DAB anyhow...


At least for me is a great announcement. I live 5 minutes from DAB, and I travel around 6 times a year to BOG.

I actually don't like using MCO, prices are high, the airport is enormous, TSA lines are long, taxiing takes ages, I've never had a good experience at MCO. I actually prefer driving from DAB to MIA or FLL sometimes.

With this new flight, where I don't need to leave my car at the airport (usually $10 per day), just need to uber 5min to the airport and take a $58 flight to FLL. I still will use it for MIA, if I find a cheap ticket from MIA, just need to ride the train from FLL to MIA.
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Re: Silver (3M) to start DAB-FLL in January

Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:00 pm

I'll take connecting in ATL or CLT any-day over driving to MCO. I only fly out of MCO when DAB prices are $200+, and at that point MCO and the shuttle or parking are cheaper.

FLL could be successful, if Silver makes it work and offers decent fares not only nonstop but connecting onward as well.
RIP McDonnell Douglas
 
INFINITI329
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Re: Silver (3M) to start DAB-FLL in January

Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:02 pm

Would have DAB-MCO been plausible, seeing how there are more connecting opportunities in MCO?
 
ScottB
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Re: Silver (3M) to start DAB-FLL in January

Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:17 pm

evank516 wrote:
It's longer than an hour. You're forgetting I-4 traffic, tolls, any possible traffic on SR 417. It's not a direct route from DAB to MCO, it's quite a roundabout way to get there. Let's not also forget the approximately 40 mins to clear security in MCO. This should also feed B6's growing operation in FLL. DAB is an easy airport, and maybe this will make others reconsider flying instead of driving to FLL, which by the way is more like 4 hours. It's 3.5 hours to Boca which is still 30-40 mins from FLL not including traffic down I-95 or the Turnpike once you make your way into the Palm Beach Area. Also, with flights from MCO-FLL in existence, there's no reason DAB can't exist either.


You do realize that a domestic connection between 3M and B6 at FLL requires re-clearing security, since 3M operates at Terminal 1 and B6 mostly departs from Terminal 3? Clearing TSA at FLL is no treat, either and T1 to T3 is a bit of a hike outdoors. That pretty much kills the convenience of the smaller airport and you still run the risk of the DAB-FLL (or vice versa) leg being delayed or cancelled.
 
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Re: Silver (3M) to start DAB-FLL in January

Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:20 pm

INFINITI329 wrote:
Would have DAB-MCO been plausible, seeing how there are more connecting opportunities in MCO?

DAB-MCO is only 50 miles (by air). It would be faster to just drive to MCO.
 
DeltaRules
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Re: Silver (3M) to start DAB-FLL in January

Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:33 pm

Polot wrote:
INFINITI329 wrote:
Would have DAB-MCO been plausible, seeing how there are more connecting opportunities in MCO?

DAB-MCO is only 50 miles (by air). It would be faster to just drive to MCO.
I see his point when it comes to connections, though. Delta ran the route when they had the Orlando hub.

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evank516
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Re: Silver (3M) to start DAB-FLL in January

Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:43 pm

ScottB wrote:
evank516 wrote:
It's longer than an hour. You're forgetting I-4 traffic, tolls, any possible traffic on SR 417. It's not a direct route from DAB to MCO, it's quite a roundabout way to get there. Let's not also forget the approximately 40 mins to clear security in MCO. This should also feed B6's growing operation in FLL. DAB is an easy airport, and maybe this will make others reconsider flying instead of driving to FLL, which by the way is more like 4 hours. It's 3.5 hours to Boca which is still 30-40 mins from FLL not including traffic down I-95 or the Turnpike once you make your way into the Palm Beach Area. Also, with flights from MCO-FLL in existence, there's no reason DAB can't exist either.


You do realize that a domestic connection between 3M and B6 at FLL requires re-clearing security, since 3M operates at Terminal 1 and B6 mostly departs from Terminal 3? Clearing TSA at FLL is no treat, either and T1 to T3 is a bit of a hike outdoors. That pretty much kills the convenience of the smaller airport and you still run the risk of the DAB-FLL (or vice versa) leg being delayed or cancelled.


Cleared security in T3 on Memorial Day Weekend in 2016. Well aware they're different terminals, well aware of the distance. I travel a lot, I've been to FLL, I've been to DAB. It's essentially another option, it doesn't change the fact that FLL is booming and the options are there. JetBlue offers connections to Silver on their own website so it's not like doing this isn't plausible. They codeshare with UA as well, UA is in the same terminal.

Does anyone know if they interline with WN?
 
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Re: Silver (3M) to start DAB-FLL in January

Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:56 pm

I'm now curious of two things: will Daytona still show up on JetBlue's booking engine and, given the timing and only a few days between their own end of service and the start of Silver's, might JetBlue have had a hand in this?

"Well, we're leaving, but here's somebody who can still get you onto JetBlue airplanes!"

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TTailedTiger
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Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:19 am

Re: Silver (3M) to start DAB-FLL in January

Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:34 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
Polot wrote:
INFINITI329 wrote:
Would have DAB-MCO been plausible, seeing how there are more connecting opportunities in MCO?

DAB-MCO is only 50 miles (by air). It would be faster to just drive to MCO.
I see his point when it comes to connections, though. Delta ran the route when they had the Orlando hub.

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What equipment did they use? Comair Brasilia?
 
KMCOFlyer
Posts: 133
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Re: Silver (3M) to start DAB-FLL in January

Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:13 pm

If fares are competitive with MCO, DAB could draw from the northern Orlando suburbs of DeLand and possibly Deltona. I live south of MCO in St. Cloud and often fly out of MLB even though it is 20 mins further because there is rarely any traffic on US 192 and the airport is super convenient. I have never waited more than 5 mins in security at MLB and in MCO, security can often be 30+ mins.
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 4703
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

Re: Silver (3M) to start DAB-FLL in January

Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:23 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
Polot wrote:
DAB-MCO is only 50 miles (by air). It would be faster to just drive to MCO.
I see his point when it comes to connections, though. Delta ran the route when they had the Orlando hub.

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What equipment did they use? Comair Brasilia?


Brasilias and Metros in 1995 according to DepartedFlights, along with USAir Express Beech 1900s.
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alasizon
Posts: 1477
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Re: Silver (3M) to start DAB-FLL in January

Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:13 am

evank516 wrote:
[
Does anyone know if they interline with WN?


Nobody interlines with WN domestically.
Manager on Duty & Tower Planner
 
Flaps
Posts: 1466
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2000 1:11 pm

Re: Silver (3M) to start DAB-FLL in January

Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:24 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
Polot wrote:
DAB-MCO is only 50 miles (by air). It would be faster to just drive to MCO.
I see his point when it comes to connections, though. Delta ran the route when they had the Orlando hub.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using Tapatalk


What equipment did they use? Comair Brasilia?


Comair EMB110 Bandeirante. Flew that one several times in the late eighties.
 
evank516
Posts: 1643
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Re: Silver (3M) to start DAB-FLL in January

Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:17 am

KMCOFlyer wrote:
If fares are competitive with MCO, DAB could draw from the northern Orlando suburbs of DeLand and possibly Deltona. I live south of MCO in St. Cloud and often fly out of MLB even though it is 20 mins further because there is rarely any traffic on US 192 and the airport is super convenient. I have never waited more than 5 mins in security at MLB and in MCO, security can often be 30+ mins.


Also, SIlver is axing JAX so it might draw from people as far north as St. Augustine trying to get to South Florida.
 
evank516
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Re: Silver (3M) to start DAB-FLL in January

Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:19 pm

Another note, looks like the schedule will work for people taking cruises out of the Fort Lauderdale/Miami Area.
 
richierich
Posts: 3527
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2000 5:49 am

Re: Silver (3M) to start DAB-FLL in January

Wed Dec 05, 2018 6:19 pm

evank516 wrote:
Also, SIlver is axing JAX so it might draw from people as far north as St. Augustine trying to get to South Florida.



Looking quickly today, there are 5 daily JAX-MIA flights (AA) and 6 daily JAX-FLL flights (B6 and WN). The one daily DAB flight will have to compete with that when it comes to those living along the I-95 corridor north of Daytona.
None shall pass!!!!
 
evank516
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Re: Silver (3M) to start DAB-FLL in January

Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:52 pm

richierich wrote:
evank516 wrote:
Also, SIlver is axing JAX so it might draw from people as far north as St. Augustine trying to get to South Florida.



Looking quickly today, there are 5 daily JAX-MIA flights (AA) and 6 daily JAX-FLL flights (B6 and WN). The one daily DAB flight will have to compete with that when it comes to those living along the I-95 corridor north of Daytona.


Maybe once you go north of Flagler County, but Flagler is much closer to DAB than JAX. The difference in driving is probably 45 mins with JAX being about an hour and 15 mins from Palm Coast while DAB is about 30 mins or 40 depending on the area.
 
Kronesian
Posts: 26
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Re: Silver (3M) to start DAB-FLL in January

Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:21 pm

F27500 wrote:
Didn't realize B6 was discontinuing DAB. Wonder if they would consider MLB?


Wouldn't surprise me actually. I think MLB is about to go through a pretty big expansion, they are adding an exit off the interstate that directly links it up with the airport. They wouldn't do this unless there was an actual financial incentive with it. Also hearing some rumors about F9 starting service in the the near future.
KMLB
 
evank516
Posts: 1643
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Re: Silver (3M) to start DAB-FLL in January

Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:31 pm

Kronesian wrote:
F27500 wrote:
Didn't realize B6 was discontinuing DAB. Wonder if they would consider MLB?


Wouldn't surprise me actually. I think MLB is about to go through a pretty big expansion, they are adding an exit off the interstate that directly links it up with the airport. They wouldn't do this unless there was an actual financial incentive with it. Also hearing some rumors about F9 starting service in the the near future.


It would surprise me. They'd most likely run into the same problem as DAB, decent enough loads but no fare premium.
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 4703
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Re: Silver (3M) to start DAB-FLL in January

Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:35 pm

evank516 wrote:
Kronesian wrote:
F27500 wrote:
Didn't realize B6 was discontinuing DAB. Wonder if they would consider MLB?


Wouldn't surprise me actually. I think MLB is about to go through a pretty big expansion, they are adding an exit off the interstate that directly links it up with the airport. They wouldn't do this unless there was an actual financial incentive with it. Also hearing some rumors about F9 starting service in the the near future.


It would surprise me. They'd most likely run into the same problem as DAB, decent enough loads but no fare premium.


DAB and MLB are interesting because their services are so similar:
-AA: CLT
-DL: ATL
-Canadian carrier (Sunwing/Porter): YYZ/YTZ
-Niche regional carrier (Elite/3M)
-Northeast service: B6/JFK, AA/PHL
-SY: Casino junkets to GPT

Given that, I guess my question would be what B6 would find in MLB that they didn't at DAB. MLB's going to have a flight to the Northeast thanks to AA starting PHL, which wasn't as directly challenged at DAB.

We've got a dedicated thread going for regional Florida chat if anybody's interested: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1404483&p=20907993
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MIAFLLPBIFlyer
Posts: 263
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:25 pm

Re: Silver (3M) to start DAB-FLL in January

Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:54 am

DeltaRules wrote:
evank516 wrote:
Kronesian wrote:

Wouldn't surprise me actually. I think MLB is about to go through a pretty big expansion, they are adding an exit off the interstate that directly links it up with the airport. They wouldn't do this unless there was an actual financial incentive with it. Also hearing some rumors about F9 starting service in the the near future.


It would surprise me. They'd most likely run into the same problem as DAB, decent enough loads but no fare premium.


DAB and MLB are interesting because their services are so similar:
-AA: CLT
-DL: ATL
-Canadian carrier (Sunwing/Porter): YYZ/YTZ
-Niche regional carrier (Elite/3M)
-Northeast service: B6/JFK, AA/PHL
-SY: Casino junkets to GPT

Given that, I guess my question would be what B6 would find in MLB that they didn't at DAB. MLB's going to have a flight to the Northeast thanks to AA starting PHL, which wasn't as directly challenged at DAB.

We've got a dedicated thread going for regional Florida chat if anybody's interested: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1404483&p=20907993



Historically due to Harris and the Aerospace industry, MLB had some passengers willing to pay a premium to avoid the drive to MCO. But these days going to MCO is easier from there and there are less high-end jobs on the Space Coast that would rely on MLB than before. BUT historically it's a better premium market than DAB. That having been said the poster is right that the services now are remarkably similar which probably says something.
 
evank516
Posts: 1643
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: Silver (3M) to start DAB-FLL in January

Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:16 pm

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
evank516 wrote:

It would surprise me. They'd most likely run into the same problem as DAB, decent enough loads but no fare premium.


DAB and MLB are interesting because their services are so similar:
-AA: CLT
-DL: ATL
-Canadian carrier (Sunwing/Porter): YYZ/YTZ
-Niche regional carrier (Elite/3M)
-Northeast service: B6/JFK, AA/PHL
-SY: Casino junkets to GPT

Given that, I guess my question would be what B6 would find in MLB that they didn't at DAB. MLB's going to have a flight to the Northeast thanks to AA starting PHL, which wasn't as directly challenged at DAB.

We've got a dedicated thread going for regional Florida chat if anybody's interested: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1404483&p=20907993



Historically due to Harris and the Aerospace industry, MLB had some passengers willing to pay a premium to avoid the drive to MCO. But these days going to MCO is easier from there and there are less high-end jobs on the Space Coast that would rely on MLB than before. BUT historically it's a better premium market than DAB. That having been said the poster is right that the services now are remarkably similar which probably says something.


It's actually a more direct drive between MLB and MCO. To get to MCO from DAB you either have to take I-4 to SR 417 and go around Orlando to SR 528, I-4 to SR 408 and take the side streets, I-95 to SR-528 which is out of the way, or I-4 to like SR 436 or something. MLB is a shorter drive via I-95 to SR 528. Their services are very similar until January, however DL and AA have higher levels of service into DAB over MLB. AA uses larger aircraft at a higher frequency on CLT-DAB, DL is usually around 5 flights per day with a shorter period of time at 4 and I think MLB holds at 4 dailies. DL doesn't really use anything smaller than the MD-88 to DAB with occasional rotations of larger aircraft, but I think MLB regularly sees the 717.
 
727LOVER
Posts: 8097
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 12:22 am

Re: Silver (3M) to start DAB-FLL in January

Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:55 pm

Why aren't the codeshares showing up on UA and B6 sites? :confused:
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
sargester
Topic Author
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:29 pm

Re: Silver (3M) to start DAB-FLL in January

Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:20 pm

727LOVER wrote:
Why aren't the codeshares showing up on UA and B6 sites? :confused:


I noticed that too, i asked the JetBlue social media team and they said they had no plans (not sure if they were actually aware) of codesharing with Silver on FLL-DAB and Silver stated the main reason for the flight had to do with people in Volusia and the surrounding counties catching cruises out of FLL
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 4703
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

Re: Silver (3M) to start DAB-FLL in January

Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:42 pm

Whatever the reason, they're going hard with the partnership. I'm not sure if it's a Photoshop or an actual livery on an airplane right now, but I saw photos of a Daytona Tortugas special paint scheme on a Saab earlier.

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evank516
Posts: 1643
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: Silver (3M) to start DAB-FLL in January

Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:36 pm

sargester wrote:
727LOVER wrote:
Why aren't the codeshares showing up on UA and B6 sites? :confused:


I noticed that too, i asked the JetBlue social media team and they said they had no plans (not sure if they were actually aware) of codesharing with Silver on FLL-DAB and Silver stated the main reason for the flight had to do with people in Volusia and the surrounding counties catching cruises out of FLL


This is poor networking on the part of B6 if you ask me. This is a golden opportunity for them to claim to fly to a destination that they just announced they were closing to quite the uproar (they can essentially say they're staying). If you saw DAB's social media post the day the route cancellation was announced, it was total chaos. People were VERY upset. In addition, the lack of codesharing from both UA and B6 is going to hurt Silver's attempt at operating in DAB unless they can manage with people sticking to Silver's network alone, and I don't think the demand exists for that. They need the feed from jetBlue and United, more so United because they're in the same terminal and connections will really be easy.

However, the reason Silver gave about the cruises seems to be justifiable to at least give it a try. The flights are timed out perfectly for cruises.
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 4703
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

Re: Silver (3M) to start DAB-FLL in January

Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:04 pm

Here's an opinion piece from the Daytona Beach News Journal which seems to imply that JetBlue and United will be codesharing with Silver. There's also talk that they will expand if Fort Lauderdale is successful: https://www.news-journalonline.com/opin ... or-daytona

It also gets a not-so-subtle dig in that passengers who connect in Fort Lauderdale will be able to connect to two flights which would get them to JFK earlier than JetBlue's flight did.

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