a7ala
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2018

Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:23 pm

DavidByrne wrote:
Another possibility with the extra CHC-SIN services is that NZ and SQ had planned this all along, since the start of the JV, but that NZ taking on the summer seasonals had to await the delivery of sufficient aircraft. We just don't know . . .


Interestingly it isnt really going to be a significant increase in capacity on CHC-SIN. Yes during the peak months, but remember the rest of the year will see a capacity downgrade:

Current
396 flights with 271-seat B772 = 215,000 seats

Proposed
365 flights with 253-seat A350 + 55 flights with 302-seat B789 = 218,000 seats

So a 1.5% uplift. I presume NZ had to come on the route with a larger plane as a capacity drop in an alliance would be hard for the regulators to stomach.
 
jimmyah
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2018

Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:36 am

aerorobnz wrote:
aerohottie wrote:

Bit disappointed. This was a potential opportunity for Air NZ to operate the 789 on WLG-SIN, and operate double daily WLG-MEL A320 flights, and leave SQ to focus on CHC instead of WLG


I would rather have SQ serve the market. Superior product in just about every way, especially if they send an A350 that way in the future too.


I would have to disagree with you on that when it comes to PE. NZ is just so much better in every way than SQ or most other airlines for that matter.
 
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qf789
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2018

Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:12 am

NZ has removed HND schedules from July 2019

https://twitter.com/Airlineroute/status ... 6868065280
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ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2018

Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:04 am

a7ala wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
Another possibility with the extra CHC-SIN services is that NZ and SQ had planned this all along, since the start of the JV, but that NZ taking on the summer seasonals had to await the delivery of sufficient aircraft. We just don't know . . .


Interestingly it isnt really going to be a significant increase in capacity on CHC-SIN. Yes during the peak months, but remember the rest of the year will see a capacity downgrade:

Current
396 flights with 271-seat B772 = 215,000 seats

Proposed
365 flights with 253-seat A350 + 55 flights with 302-seat B789 = 218,000 seats

So a 1.5% uplift. I presume NZ had to come on the route with a larger plane as a capacity drop in an alliance would be hard for the regulators to stomach.


What are SQ’s loads like in winter? The 772 is 26J 245Y while the 359 is 38J 28W 187Y, so a nearly 50% increase in J seats added W while a significant reduction in Y, be interesting to see how this affects the route. Less Y seats and more premium, seems they are going for higher yields.

Looks like NZ will use the 275 seat 789.
 
a7ala
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2018

Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:16 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:

Looks like NZ will use the 275 seat 789.


Well if that's the case then its no increase at all. I suspect the NZ/SQ alliance will have some conditions saying they have to at least maintain capacity in CHC hence the NZ B789.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2018

Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:33 am

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... y-changes/

Most likely due to UA going year round, albeit 3 weekly with a 772 in NS.

Could be NZ are short of capacity aswell, although for NS I’d say they are ok for the most part.
 
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Zkpilot
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2018

Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:58 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/281938/air-new-zealand-ns19-san-francisco-frequency-changes/

Most likely due to UA going year round, albeit 3 weekly with a 772 in NS.

Could be NZ are short of capacity aswell, although for NS I’d say they are ok for the most part.

So between them 8x pw. Considering the additional capacity to NA (IAH/ORD) this should help to keep load factors up. I still expect in the Northern Winter for NZ to operate daily to all destinations except ORD although that will likely happen too at some point (probably 2020/21 season if no recession).
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bevan7
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2018

Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:44 am

Looks like the strike is called off https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/109310 ... successful
 
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aerorobnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2018

Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:43 pm

bevan7 wrote:
Looks like the strike is called off https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/109310 ... successful

Jacinda and Labour getting involved in non-political matters again I see - their job is to balance the govt ledger, manage national debt and state-owned AND run infrastructure and let free enterprise prosper, not to interfere in business negotiations of privately run businesses. I understand they have opinions as majority shareholders, but still. I hope the negotiations were genuine and they are not settling (on either side company or engineers) as a result of unnecessary political pressure. Of course, the vote still has to be accepted, but the strike will likely stay off the table regardless.
Flown to 147 Airports in 62 Countries on 83 Operators and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
axio
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2018

Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:00 pm

aerorobnz wrote:
bevan7 wrote:
Looks like the strike is called off https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/109310 ... successful

Jacinda and Labour getting involved in non-political matters again I see - their job is to balance the govt ledger, manage national debt and state-owned AND run infrastructure and let free enterprise prosper, not to interfere in business negotiations of privately run businesses. I understand they have opinions as majority shareholders, but still. I hope the negotiations were genuine and they are not settling (on either side company or engineers) as a result of unnecessary political pressure. Of course, the vote still has to be accepted, but the strike will likely stay off the table regardless.


Trying to avoid a non-av diversion, but politicians are also there to represent their constituents and I'm confident they'd be on the receiving end of plenty of wrath if thousands of people's Xmas plans were destroyed while the major shareholder sat with their arms folded. It's a rock and hard place situation, and it's also pretty common for government (around the world) to become involved in strikes affecting transport operations.

On another subject, I was wondering about the 787 engine issue and what's happening. It seems to have become quite a long-term problem and I would have imagined improved designs or fixes would have been done by now (it's been over a year right?). Is there an indication when 787s will be able to operate normally?
Time for a new viewing deck at AKL!
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2018

Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:02 am

And the WLG runway extension is still ticking forward through the Environment Court. https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national ... -extension
 
Deepinsider
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2018

Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:36 am

On another subject, I was wondering about the 787 engine issue and what's happening. It seems to have become quite a long-term problem and I would have imagined improved designs or fixes would have been done by now (it's been over a year right?). Is there an indication when 787s will be able to operate normally?[/quote]

Some update news here;
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... gh-454341/
 
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Zkpilot
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2018

Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:10 am

axio wrote:
aerorobnz wrote:
bevan7 wrote:
Looks like the strike is called off https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/109310 ... successful

Jacinda and Labour getting involved in non-political matters again I see - their job is to balance the govt ledger, manage national debt and state-owned AND run infrastructure and let free enterprise prosper, not to interfere in business negotiations of privately run businesses. I understand they have opinions as majority shareholders, but still. I hope the negotiations were genuine and they are not settling (on either side company or engineers) as a result of unnecessary political pressure. Of course, the vote still has to be accepted, but the strike will likely stay off the table regardless.


Trying to avoid a non-av diversion, but politicians are also there to represent their constituents and I'm confident they'd be on the receiving end of plenty of wrath if thousands of people's Xmas plans were destroyed while the major shareholder sat with their arms folded. It's a rock and hard place situation, and it's also pretty common for government (around the world) to become involved in strikes affecting transport operations.

On another subject, I was wondering about the 787 engine issue and what's happening. It seems to have become quite a long-term problem and I would have imagined improved designs or fixes would have been done by now (it's been over a year right?). Is there an indication when 787s will be able to operate normally?

IIRC NZ should have the entire fleet fixed and operational by March.
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Sylus
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2018

Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:20 am

NZ to commence 5 per week direct AKL-IVC During second half of 2019 using A320.

https://whatsoninvers.nz/air-nz-to-tria ... -auckland/

Interesting that they are calling it a 'trial'.
Fairly ok timings for business.
In at 9.30pm, back out next morning at 6am.
Mondays,Tuesday, Thurs , Fri and Sat

Makes sense given the route is out of the ATR range and IVC has a great long runway and new terminal with relatively easy AVSEC implementation.
 
Megatop747-412
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2018

Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:02 am

a7ala wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
Another possibility with the extra CHC-SIN services is that NZ and SQ had planned this all along, since the start of the JV, but that NZ taking on the summer seasonals had to await the delivery of sufficient aircraft. We just don't know . . .


Interestingly it isnt really going to be a significant increase in capacity on CHC-SIN. Yes during the peak months, but remember the rest of the year will see a capacity downgrade:

Current
396 flights with 271-seat B772 = 215,000 seats

Proposed
365 flights with 253-seat A350 + 55 flights with 302-seat B789 = 218,000 seats

So a 1.5% uplift. I presume NZ had to come on the route with a larger plane as a capacity drop in an alliance would be hard for the regulators to stomach.


One thing I'm a bit confused about is the statement from the Air NZ Press Release and quoted here that NZ is using the "larger" Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner aircraft on the route. I mean, the B789 is NZ's smallest long haul capable aircraft. The other long haul aircraft type in NZ's fleet is the B777, which is even larger that their B789. Their new A32xNEOs don't have the range to do CHC-SIN non stop, so that surely can't be used as a comparison for size. So, why the statement indicating the "larger" B789? What aircraft size are they comparing with? Are they comparing it with SQ's 772 or SQ's A350, both with have less seats that NZ's B789 even the v2 premium heavy config..?

Maybe I'm reading too much into that statement, or reading it wrongly, so any ideas/insights would be appreciated.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2018

Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:46 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/281938/air-new-zealand-ns19-san-francisco-frequency-changes/

Most likely due to UA going year round, albeit 3 weekly with a 772 in NS.

Could be NZ are short of capacity aswell, although for NS I’d say they are ok for the most part.


The 77W/77E fleets have had an pretty hard summer period working non-stop, maybe they are planning to take a couple out for MX durring the low season? or return the current 3x dry leased 777s.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2018

Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:11 am

Zkpilot wrote:
axio wrote:
aerorobnz wrote:
Jacinda and Labour getting involved in non-political matters again I see - their job is to balance the govt ledger, manage national debt and state-owned AND run infrastructure and let free enterprise prosper, not to interfere in business negotiations of privately run businesses. I understand they have opinions as majority shareholders, but still. I hope the negotiations were genuine and they are not settling (on either side company or engineers) as a result of unnecessary political pressure. Of course, the vote still has to be accepted, but the strike will likely stay off the table regardless.


Trying to avoid a non-av diversion, but politicians are also there to represent their constituents and I'm confident they'd be on the receiving end of plenty of wrath if thousands of people's Xmas plans were destroyed while the major shareholder sat with their arms folded. It's a rock and hard place situation, and it's also pretty common for government (around the world) to become involved in strikes affecting transport operations.

On another subject, I was wondering about the 787 engine issue and what's happening. It seems to have become quite a long-term problem and I would have imagined improved designs or fixes would have been done by now (it's been over a year right?). Is there an indication when 787s will be able to operate normally?

IIRC NZ should have the entire fleet fixed and operational by March.


I certainly wouldn’t be holding anyone to having all 789’s back by March. I think the leases capacity is 12 months so through till atleast July/August. While not ideal I’d imagine they will atleast hang onto the leased frames for the 12 month duration.

zkncj wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/281938/air-new-zealand-ns19-san-francisco-frequency-changes/

Most likely due to UA going year round, albeit 3 weekly with a 772 in NS.

Could be NZ are short of capacity aswell, although for NS I’d say they are ok for the most part.


The 77W/77E fleets have had an pretty hard summer period working non-stop, maybe they are planning to take a couple out for MX durring the low season? or return the current 3x dry leased 777s.


They always do mx in NS, a C check is required every 2 years on a 777, I think the 787 is the same so half the fleet or 13/14 aircraft every year are out for at least 2 weeks at a time. Longer for a D check. Although it’s only DEC-FEB where the whole fleet is available at once with no scheduled heavy mx generally during that period.
 
NZ321
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2018

Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:24 am

Not sure D checks happen any more the way they used to, I thought it was C1 and C2? What does Air NZ do?
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ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2018

Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:56 pm

NZ321 wrote:
Not sure D checks happen any more the way they used to, I thought it was C1 and C2? What does Air NZ do?


Yes I think you are right, D checks were done on the 744, I think the 777 is C1 C2 or something like it.
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2018

Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:57 pm

PER-CHC has resumed its seasonal service, first one for the season is in the air albeit running 3 hours late due to inbound aircraft being late, loads quite good for first flight of the season, being operated by OKA
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ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2018

Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:31 pm

qf789 wrote:
PER-CHC has resumed its seasonal service, first one for the season is in the air albeit running 3 hours late due to inbound aircraft being late, loads quite good for first flight of the season, being operated by OKA


Delayed outbound ex AKL due to thunderstorms, several flights were delayed by 2-3 hrs.

Good to see the flight seems to do ok, it must be in its 5th or 6th season now.
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2018

Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:17 pm

Megatop747-412 wrote:

One thing I'm a bit confused about is the statement from the Air NZ Press Release and quoted here that NZ is using the "larger" Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner aircraft on the route.


No doubt referring to the fact it is the larger capacity of the 2 787 configurations (302) vs the V2 that has more business class, which makes sense.
Flown to 147 Airports in 62 Countries on 83 Operators and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2018

Sat Dec 15, 2018 12:43 am

aerorobnz wrote:
Megatop747-412 wrote:

One thing I'm a bit confused about is the statement from the Air NZ Press Release and quoted here that NZ is using the "larger" Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner aircraft on the route.


No doubt referring to the fact it is the larger capacity of the 2 787 configurations (302) vs the V2 that has more business class, which makes sense.


Judging by the timing exact same as AKL schedule I read it as being the 275 seat version which in itself has a similar seat count to SQ 77E with W added.
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2018

Sun Dec 16, 2018 2:12 am

Obviously way to early to tell the success of ORD but how have the first few flights gone in terms of the ORD-AKL sector? Much of a payload hit?
There have been a few delayed flights, is that mainly ground delays, ATC or de icing type stuff?
 
a7ala
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2018

Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:13 pm

Air NZ's WLG-BNE recommencement started this morning. Will be interesting to see how it goes at 4-5/week up against VA's 9/week - after being operationally absent for the last 7 years.
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2018

Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:29 am

A note from one of the NZ A320 pilots I was recently talking to - OAB has had more cycles now than OJA, due to the short domestic hops it does.
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Zkpilot
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2018

Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:43 am

LamboAston wrote:
A note from one of the NZ A320 pilots I was recently talking to - OAB has had more cycles now than OJA, due to the short domestic hops it does.

Interesting, in theory with the current schedule it could do around 10 sectors a day domestically. Of course they mix it up a bit with some longer ones in there so more like 6-7 sectors a day. A regional A320 would do 4 per day normally or less for longer sectors.
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zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2018

Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:50 am

LamboAston wrote:
A note from one of the NZ A320 pilots I was recently talking to - OAB has had more cycles now than OJA, due to the short domestic hops it does.


OAB and its 3x siblings are already planned to be replaced around 2020-21 with A321NEO's.
 
a7ala
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2018

Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:10 pm

FJ B737Max-8 due into WLG at 12:20pm for its first New Zealand visit
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2018

Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:26 am

https://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/press-r ... rugby-fans

Extra AKL-NRT services for RWC 2019 with 777’s.

I saw HND was removed from schedules from July 2019 when it was meant to return, and instead NRT goes 9 weekly in July and 19 weekly in December 2019. I’m guessing simply slots and aircraft utilisation related.

Also BNE-ZQN/WLG started this week.
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2018

Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:49 am

Also, you will note that NRT now will have no curfew and an extra runway being built. so it will become a little bit easier to operate preferred slots too.
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2018

Sat Dec 22, 2018 10:36 am

Apparently Q300 VH-SBW is coming back next week for JQ relief. -SBW is in QF Link livery now
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NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2018

Tue Dec 25, 2018 9:03 pm

Merry Christmas everyone, it's been a predictably slow month news-wise so for those still around, looking ahead, what will 2019 bring Aviation in New Zealand?

For me, I'm most excited about the 772 replacement which will be announced first half of this year, I'd also like to see more Chinese carriers in CHC.

There are a few other things for NZ in the pipeline this year which unfortunately I can't confirm yet but it should be an exciting year.

Otherwise, will anything come of that public 78J rumour, will EK stay on the AKL-DPS route, will the 789 issues get resolved, any new carriers, routes or alliances, will we see QF do anything in NZ? Anything new for China? How will VA survive on their own?

Do we see anything new or exciting in the airport's space? WLG's runway, AKL terminals
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2018

Tue Dec 25, 2018 9:09 pm

There's still that tantalising question about whether SQ could do WLN-SIN non-stop with a 359. If they can I'm sure they'd get the traffic.
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2018

Tue Dec 25, 2018 10:15 pm

tealnz wrote:
There's still that tantalising question about whether SQ could do WLN-SIN non-stop with a 359. If they can I'm sure they'd get the traffic.


On that I wonder what SQ have planned configuration wise for the rest of the A359’s, are they taking anymore long haul ones? They would to have any chance need to use the long haul 253 seat configuration for any possible WLG-SIN non stop.


Merry Christmas all! Definitely looking forward to an exciting 2019! All the best.
 
mrkerr7474
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2018

Tue Dec 25, 2018 10:46 pm

Merry Christmas all and best wishes for the year ahead too!

On Wellingtons runway extension (which I don't really see happening or it would have been processed way before now in my opinion), but they talk about needing longer safety areas at either end of the runway. If they aren't in favour of extending the runway for long haul operations, would they ever look at extending the runway to allow for the longer safety areas?
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2018

Tue Dec 25, 2018 10:55 pm

tealnz wrote:
There's still that tantalising question about whether SQ could do WLN-SIN non-stop with a 359. If they can I'm sure they'd get the traffic.


Many of you know I don't believe WLG needs a direct long-haul flight however if it's going to work long term it needs to drop that Australian transit.

Kiwi's are very price-sensitive consumers, although Wellingtonians would love to support the service, and will tell you they support the service, the stop in Australia means any benefit from the convenience is lost over the array of airlines operating ex AKL.

When you look at it, there's SIN, KUL, BKK, MNL, HKG, SYD, BJS, PVG (all other Chinese gateways) that are serviced from Auckland and all have an array of options to connect within Asia and Europe.

So Wellingtonians currently still have two stops to reach that 'gateway', AKL via a domestic flight or MEL with SQ.

While yes, I can understand why some would see the SQ sector as the preferable option, neither offset the other with significant convenience savings that a direct service would provide. That means, many will revert back to what's affordable, best value for money etc and that opens the door for AKL and all those carriers, especially the Chinese ones who offer very low airfares.

As I've always said though, is there the demand from WLG as us tight kiwis won't pay a premium for it.
 
Polo5959
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2018

Tue Dec 25, 2018 11:03 pm

It’s been a pretty quiet last few months on the NZ aviation scene.

I agree that the 772 replacement is the most exciting change next year.

I think a JV or stronger alliance with TG could be on the cards for NZ. Maybe NZ operate 3x weekly with 789? Or maybe seasonal HKT. I could see EK switching DPS to BKK.

NZ has already announced more flights to NRT but HND has been removed from the schedule. Perhaps KIX year round again? Or maybe a stronger alliance with NH with NH taking over HND?

I think NZ may add a regional AUS destination, my pick is CBR.

If the AA/QF alliance is approved LAX - AKL should become year round.
 
aerokiwi
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2018

Wed Dec 26, 2018 7:47 am

As much as I'm not a fan of NZ's standard livery, I'm looking at the all-black version on a 772 at MEL right now and it looks pretty great. A few questuons, if anyone knows the answers:

1. Correct to assume the all-black version is considerably more expensive to maintain, incl impact on other operating costs e.g. aircon?

2. The nacelles - a real shame they aren't black too but is this because they need to be transferrable with spares from the rest of the fleet? Or is there an impact on performance too?

On the 77X vs A350 selection - not too fussed myself, assuming the internal cabin carve-outs on the 77X go some way in alleviating the 10-abreast Y class issue, though 9-abreast on the 777 is pretty great. Several flights recently on CX and SQ 777s and 350s and I'm not sure what the fuss is about on the 350 - it's comfy enough in Y but nothing remarkable.

In saying that, NZ need to get a hurry on with their J class. That's a pretty subpar hard product... a few upgrades on SQ really showed this up.

I do hope NZ goes for the 78J, though. I think that's the real sleeper hit for Boeing and would suits NZ's Asia and regional routes very nicely.

I note their recent temporary wifi offer on the Tasman. Interesting to see how this goes now that NZ's base Y class offering is really more Jetstar than full service, in comparison to VA and QF.
 
aerokiwi
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2018

Wed Dec 26, 2018 7:53 am

As much as I'm not a fan of NZ's standard livery, I'm looking at the all-black version on a 772 at MEL right now and it looks pretty great. A few questuons, if anyone knows the answers:

1. Correct to assume the all-black version is considerably more expensive to maintain, incl impact on other operating costs e.g. aircon?

2. The nacelles - a real shame they aren't black too but is this because they need to be transferrable with spares from the rest of the fleet? Or is there an impact on performance too?

On the 77X vs A350 selection - not too fussed myself, assuming the internal cabin carve-outs on the 77X go some way in alleviating the 10-abreast Y class issue, though 9-abreast on the 777 is pretty great. Several flights recently on CX and SQ 777s and 350s and I'm not sure what the fuss is about on the 350 - it's comfy enough in Y but nothing remarkable.

In saying that, NZ need to get a hurry on with their J class. That's a pretty subpar hard product... a few upgrades on SQ really showed this up.

I do hope NZ goes for the 78J, though. I think that's the real sleeper hit for Boeing and would suits NZ's Asia and regional routes very nicely.

I note their recent temporary wifi offer on the Tasman. Interesting to see how this goes now that NZ's base Y class offering is really more Jetstar than full service, in comparison to VA and QF.
 
User avatar
Zkpilot
Posts: 4257
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:21 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2018

Wed Dec 26, 2018 12:34 pm

aerokiwi wrote:
As much as I'm not a fan of NZ's standard livery, I'm looking at the all-black version on a 772 at MEL right now and it looks pretty great. A few questuons, if anyone knows the answers:

1. Correct to assume the all-black version is considerably more expensive to maintain, incl impact on other operating costs e.g. aircon?

2. The nacelles - a real shame they aren't black too but is this because they need to be transferrable with spares from the rest of the fleet? Or is there an impact on performance too?

On the 77X vs A350 selection - not too fussed myself, assuming the internal cabin carve-outs on the 77X go some way in alleviating the 10-abreast Y class issue, though 9-abreast on the 777 is pretty great. Several flights recently on CX and SQ 777s and 350s and I'm not sure what the fuss is about on the 350 - it's comfy enough in Y but nothing remarkable.

In saying that, NZ need to get a hurry on with their J class. That's a pretty subpar hard product... a few upgrades on SQ really showed this up.

I do hope NZ goes for the 78J, though. I think that's the real sleeper hit for Boeing and would suits NZ's Asia and regional routes very nicely.

I note their recent temporary wifi offer on the Tasman. Interesting to see how this goes now that NZ's base Y class offering is really more Jetstar than full service, in comparison to VA and QF.


All Black not as expensive as it would have been a decade ago due to improved paint tech.

Nacelles - variety of reasons but mostly due to heat.

A350 buzz is because it is much more spacious at 9 abreast than a 779 will be at 10 abreast.

78J is possible if NZ can make the A35K work as both a 77E and 77W replacement. If they however need to go for A359 also then you can probably forget the 78J as they overlap too much size-wise.

Merry Christmas everyone
59 types. 41 countries. 24 airlines.
 
User avatar
Zkpilot
Posts: 4257
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:21 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2018

Wed Dec 26, 2018 12:35 pm

aerokiwi wrote:
As much as I'm not a fan of NZ's standard livery, I'm looking at the all-black version on a 772 at MEL right now and it looks pretty great. A few questuons, if anyone knows the answers:

1. Correct to assume the all-black version is considerably more expensive to maintain, incl impact on other operating costs e.g. aircon?

2. The nacelles - a real shame they aren't black too but is this because they need to be transferrable with spares from the rest of the fleet? Or is there an impact on performance too?

On the 77X vs A350 selection - not too fussed myself, assuming the internal cabin carve-outs on the 77X go some way in alleviating the 10-abreast Y class issue, though 9-abreast on the 777 is pretty great. Several flights recently on CX and SQ 777s and 350s and I'm not sure what the fuss is about on the 350 - it's comfy enough in Y but nothing remarkable.

In saying that, NZ need to get a hurry on with their J class. That's a pretty subpar hard product... a few upgrades on SQ really showed this up.

I do hope NZ goes for the 78J, though. I think that's the real sleeper hit for Boeing and would suits NZ's Asia and regional routes very nicely.

I note their recent temporary wifi offer on the Tasman. Interesting to see how this goes now that NZ's base Y class offering is really more Jetstar than full service, in comparison to VA and QF.


All Black not as expensive as it would have been a decade ago due to improved paint tech.

Nacelles - variety of reasons but mostly due to heat.

A350 buzz is because it is much more spacious at 9 abreast than a 779 will be at 10 abreast.

78J is possible if NZ can make the A35K work as both a 77E and 77W replacement. If they however need to go for A359 also then you can probably forget the 78J as they overlap too much size-wise.

Merry Christmas everyone
59 types. 41 countries. 24 airlines.
 
zkncj
Posts: 3151
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2018

Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:22 pm

Has anyone else notice over the last 12 months how the cabin condition on NZ aircraft is getting extremely run down?

Example the J cabins on the 77E’s are shocking and need an totally refurb.
 
Gasman
Posts: 2039
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:06 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2018

Wed Dec 26, 2018 8:22 pm

zkncj wrote:
Has anyone else notice over the last 12 months how the cabin condition on NZ aircraft is getting extremely run down?

Example the J cabins on the 77E’s are shocking and need an totally refurb.


This is an envelope which all carriers today are beginning to push.

Yes, NZ's fleet is in need of a refresh and has been for some time - both in terms of contemporary functionality and wear & tear; but if you're going to be loyal to any particular carrier you'll discover that over your traveling lifetime you'll regularly be sitting in a seat that seems well past its use by date. I'm doing a SYD-LHR run on a QF A380 soon, and while I'd still prefer the J product to NZ's; it lags behind SQ's, EK's and even their own A332/789.

It's all cyclical, and these days they're stretching the rough end of the cycle.
 
NZ6
Posts: 965
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2018

Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:58 am

Polo5959 wrote:
I think a JV or stronger alliance with TG could be on the cards for NZ. Maybe NZ operate 3x weekly with 789? Or maybe seasonal HKT. I could see EK switching DPS to BKK.

HKT was on the cards last year with TG, it went cold but I believe it has merit for seasonal service, does this open NZ and TG into alliance talks with NZ operating HKT and TG BKK?

SQ alliance covers this region nicely but is targeted the higher end of the market, that said I think the alliance might be a harder sell.

NZ has explored BKK over the last 10 year or so.

EK wanted BKK over DPS but are now saying they're committed to DPS. Time will tell.

Polo5959 wrote:
I think NZ may add a regional AUS destination, my pick is CBR.

Even though SQ couldn't make WLG-CBR work?

Polo5959 wrote:
If the AA/QF alliance is approved LAX - AKL should become year round.

I would love to QF to operate AKL-LAX and AA to do AKL-DFW/LAS/PHX/SFO
 
NZ6
Posts: 965
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2018

Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:15 am

aerokiwi wrote:
1. Correct to assume the all-black version is considerably more expensive to maintain, incl impact on other operating costs e.g. aircon?

Most likely wrong, but I've got a feeling I've heard before this actually adds weight too. I could very well be wrong on that though.

aerokiwi wrote:
On the 77X vs A350 selection - not too fussed myself, assuming the internal cabin carve-outs on the 77X go some way in alleviating the 10-abreast Y class issue

Is there an "issue" to resolve in the eyes of the airlines? Is this something they're demanding to be resolved or just an av-geek requirement?

aerokiwi wrote:
In saying that, NZ need to get a hurry on with their J class. That's a pretty subpar hard product... a few upgrades on SQ really showed this up.

It's not the best design for the 787 given the cabin size but watch some youtube reviews, not just of NZ but other products (outside the top 5-6 carriers QR/EK/SQ/CX etc) and it's still not too bad. NZ will need something new early-mid 2020's.
 
zkncj
Posts: 3151
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2018

Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:22 am

Gasman wrote:
Yes, NZ's fleet is in need of a refresh and has been for some time - both in terms of contemporary functionality and wear & tear; but if you're going to be loyal to any particular carrier you'll discover that over your traveling lifetime you'll regularly be sitting in a seat that seems well past its use by date. I'm doing a SYD-LHR run on a QF A380 soon, and while I'd still prefer the J product to NZ's; it lags behind SQ's, EK's and even their own A332/789.


The current J product is defiantly pushed well beyond its useable hard-product date, but the up keep of the software product really should be an excuse e.g. the down time of the wifi install could of been used for some soft product fixes in PE/J.

Was it 2004 that the current NZ J was introduced on the 744? how long before that had VA launched it?
 
NZ6
Posts: 965
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2018

Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:28 am

Gasman wrote:
zkncj wrote:
Has anyone else notice over the last 12 months how the cabin condition on NZ aircraft is getting extremely run down?

Example the J cabins on the 77E’s are shocking and need an totally refurb.


This is an envelope which all carriers today are beginning to push.

Yes, NZ's fleet is in need of a refresh and has been for some time - both in terms of contemporary functionality and wear & tear; but if you're going to be loyal to any particular carrier you'll discover that over your traveling lifetime you'll regularly be sitting in a seat that seems well past its use by date. I'm doing a SYD-LHR run on a QF A380 soon, and while I'd still prefer the J product to NZ's; it lags behind SQ's, EK's and even their own A332/789.

It's all cyclical, and these days they're stretching the rough end of the cycle.


Don't disagree with you. I think this is widespread across many airlines from my experience.

How much of this is the airlines 'neglect' of the cabin over the modern products?

What I mean by this is, go back to the 90's and review the product vs today. Today there are a lot more 'hard' surfaces which can be marked, damaged or break. This photo is 2001 but shows the typical product of the 90's. A lot of fabric which is removable and cleanable. Outside the audio jacks, tray table and recline mechanics there are no other parts used.

Compare today's product, white hard surfaces which show pen marks, scratches, a lot more electronic features such as USB and IFE, tray tables have moved from the armrest of the seat back and have more moving exposed moving components as a result.

On top of this, the industry has demanded lighter narrow seats allowing additional seats to be carried or allowing the aircraft to be lighter.


Last edited by NZ6 on Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:57 am, edited 3 times in total.
 
tullamarine
Posts: 2058
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2018

Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:43 am

zkncj wrote:
Gasman wrote:
Yes, NZ's fleet is in need of a refresh and has been for some time - both in terms of contemporary functionality and wear & tear; but if you're going to be loyal to any particular carrier you'll discover that over your traveling lifetime you'll regularly be sitting in a seat that seems well past its use by date. I'm doing a SYD-LHR run on a QF A380 soon, and while I'd still prefer the J product to NZ's; it lags behind SQ's, EK's and even their own A332/789.


The current J product is defiantly pushed well beyond its useable hard-product date, but the up keep of the software product really should be an excuse e.g. the down time of the wifi install could of been used for some soft product fixes in PE/J.

Was it 2004 that the current NZ J was introduced on the 744? how long before that had VA launched it?

You mean VS not VA. VA didn't exist until 2008, though DJ started in 2001 but with no J class product.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
aerokiwi
Posts: 2621
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2000 1:17 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2018

Thu Dec 27, 2018 4:21 am

NZ6 wrote:
aerokiwi wrote:
1. Correct to assume the all-black version is considerably more expensive to maintain, incl impact on other operating costs e.g. aircon?

Most likely wrong, but I've got a feeling I've heard before this actually adds weight too. I could very well be wrong on that though.

aerokiwi wrote:
On the 77X vs A350 selection - not too fussed myself, assuming the internal cabin carve-outs on the 77X go some way in alleviating the 10-abreast Y class issue

Is there an "issue" to resolve in the eyes of the airlines? Is this something they're demanding to be resolved or just an av-geek requirement?

aerokiwi wrote:
In saying that, NZ need to get a hurry on with their J class. That's a pretty subpar hard product... a few upgrades on SQ really showed this up.

It's not the best design for the 787 given the cabin size but watch some youtube reviews, not just of NZ but other products (outside the top 5-6 carriers QR/EK/SQ/CX etc) and it's still not too bad. NZ will need something new early-mid 2020's.


There's an "issue" insomuch as I just won't fly a 10 abreast 777. From MEL to North America, NZ now has the worst Y class offering, and that's with a stopover. No wonder they have to advertise so much here - I think I'd rather take FJ, frankly.

And waiting until the mid 2020s for a new J product is a serious mistake, though wouldn't surprise me from a monopsonistic carrier like NZ. They've sown up the domestic market and frequent flyer base that will tolerate for the time being. But that's the kind of complacency that sees you relegated to a second tier carrier pretty quickly.

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