I was wondering if anyone knows why the latest 737-900 entering service have the same Winglets as the early models delivered?

Boeing only delivers 737NGs with the blended winglets. The split scimitars are a retrofit and not certified as part of the production so Boeing can’t deliver a plane with them on. Obviously DL decided to put the aircraft into service before retrofitting split scimitars (if DL are still even doing that).

The scimitar mod for 3901 and up has been deferred until their first heavy check due to lack of funding. (Source: 777Mech on the Refurbishment thread)

timf wrote:

due to lack of funding.

Odd way of framing it: how does what's arguably the world's richest airline, have a "lack of funding" in any regard?

I'm guessing "lack of priority" would be more apt description.

Boeing excercised a put option and forced Delta to take some 737's. Maybe they don't plan on keeping it. Delta has sold off 737's soon after delivery in the past.

Delta is not as aggressive as UA when it comes to installing split scimitars on 737s.

LAX772LR wrote:

timf wrote:

due to lack of funding.

Odd way of framing it: how does what's arguably the world's richest airline, have a "lack of funding" in any regard?

I'm guessing "lack of priority" would be more apt description.

Delta is very disciplined when it comes to CAPEX. They have a bottom line number they are working to, and usually if it isn't an AD (or some drastic shift like the Pratt JT8D support), CAPEX items that would grow CAPEX beyond the bottom line number are deferred.

LAX772LR wrote:

timf wrote:

due to lack of funding.

Odd way of framing it: how does what's arguably the world's richest airline, have a "lack of funding" in any regard?

I'm guessing "lack of priority" would be more apt description.

Having full coffers doesn't mean that every single project at Delta will be funded.
Someone might have proposed the retrofit, put a business plan for it, asked for funds, and funds were refused; that's the definition of "lack of funding".

WayexTDI wrote:

LAX772LR wrote:

timf wrote:

due to lack of funding.

Odd way of framing it: how does what's arguably the world's richest airline, have a "lack of funding" in any regard?

I'm guessing "lack of priority" would be more apt description.

Having full coffers doesn't mean that every single project at Delta will be funded.

I'm aware.... that's why the second sentence is there.

TTailedTiger wrote:

Boeing excercised a put option and forced Delta to take some 737's. Maybe they don't plan on keeping it. Delta has sold off 737's soon after delivery in the past.

So Delta's plan is to take the airplane from Boeing, spec it out to Delta standards, paint in Delta colors, indoc them, fly them, not upgrade the winglets.....to sell them?

Let me guess, is it because Delta love airbus now?


back in reality, is simply a deferment of capex for something not needed right this minute. Boeing didn't "force" any of these airplanes on Delta, Delta ordered them straight up. You are referring to the last 10 739s, which aren't here yet, that were changed to put options vs firm orders when the pilots didn't take the last TA.

and for the 738s Delta sold, they were sold long before they were delivered and weren't built as 832s, much less fully configured for Delta and resold.

timf wrote:

The scimitar mod for 3901 and up has been deferred until their first heavy check due to lack of funding. (Source: 777Mech on the Refurbishment thread)

Waiting till the next round of c-checks to do them.
Not really a lack of funding per say but better to spend that capex somewhere else at the moment considering how low fuel is.

LAX772LR wrote:

timf wrote:

due to lack of funding.

Odd way of framing it: how does what's arguably the world's richest airline, have a "lack of funding" in any regard?

I'm guessing "lack of priority" would be more apt description.

basically.
you can split hairs of budgets and not going over them/shifting funding to other projects but it still ends up being a lack of priority.

If internal CapEx limits are indeed the reason, those are the type of mistakes that I just shake my head at. It's the definition of penny wise and pound foolish. AA isn't thinking straight either.

deltal1011man wrote:

back in reality, is simply a deferment of capex for something not needed right this minute. Boeing didn't "force" any of these airplanes on Delta, Delta ordered them straight up. You are referring to the last 10 739s, which aren't here yet, that were changed to put options vs firm orders when the pilots didn't take the last TA.

It doesn't matter what 10 were put options if DL wants only 120. They would get rid of 10, and it doesn't have to be the last. The theory that DL would sell these off isn't the craziest theory seen here. It's at least is a feasible explanation, however unlikely it is.

You would think the jet would be cheaper without the blended winglets, unless they are considered standard now.
Copa, for example, takes their NGs without winglets and later has them fitted.

MSPNWA wrote:

If internal CapEx limits are indeed the reason, those are the type of mistakes that I just shake my head at. It's the definition of penny wise and pound foolish. AA isn't thinking straight either.

considering your constant complaining about literally everything Delta does, I'm sure Ed Bastian is laying in bed right now, scare out of his mind that he is going to disappoint you again.

MSPNWA wrote:

It doesn't matter what 10 were put options if DL wants only 120. They would get rid of 10, and it doesn't have to be the last. The theory that DL would sell these off isn't the craziest theory seen here. It's at least is a feasible explanation, however unlikely it is.

yes. yes it is.

I can see why you would agree with it, but considering the capacity needs at Delta and how insanely stupid it would be fore Delta to wait till delivery sell those 10 frames, it is one of the craziest plans I have seen. No one who is actively taking 739s is going to pay to repaint, reconfigure, mod, etc. etc. these 739s when they could have ordered new from Boeing for the same price(probably cheaper, honestly). Delta knows this and if they had planned on selling those 739s they would have solid them the moment Boeing exercised those call options.

None of this has to do with the question asked however because 3901 through 3920 are 739s Delta ordered from Boeing straight up.

KICT wrote:

You would think the jet would be cheaper without the blended winglets, unless they are considered standard now.
Copa, for example, takes their NGs without winglets and later has them fitted.

it depends on each airlines contract with Boeing. If you were a 737 customer before winglets became a standard option then you could opt out of them. New Customers has to take them with winglets.

Very very few airlines have opted to do the winglet mod after delivery AFAIK. (CP is actually the only one I can think of, maybe WestJet?)

I assume they don't use any part of the original winglet when doing scimitars, or am I wrong. If so, what do they do with all of that metal? Resell it? Scrap? Just curious.

Anyone who has ever dealt with CAPEX request/appropriations or getting project funding requests from Finance at large global companies would understand why these things sometimes get deffered or delayed. They have to manage the expenses and allocate funding to a varied priority of projects while all managing to monthly/quarterly/annual budgets.

deltal1011man wrote:

yes. yes it is.

I can see why you would agree with it, but considering the capacity needs at Delta and how insanely stupid it would be fore Delta to wait till delivery sell those 10 frames, it is one of the craziest plans I have seen. No one who is actively taking 739s is going to pay to repaint, reconfigure, mod, etc. etc. these 739s when they could have ordered new from Boeing for the same price(probably cheaper, honestly). Delta knows this and if they had planned on selling those 739s they would have solid them the moment Boeing exercised those call options.

None of this has to do with the question asked however because 3901 through 3920 are 739s Delta ordered from Boeing straight up.

You still don't understand. It doesn't matter if plane #120 was ordered by DL or Boeing. If an airline doesn't want the total capacity, any of those 130 are subject to a different plan. What's ironic is that you start describing a scenario that could lend an airline to make a different decision on winglets for part of its fleet. DL is in a crunch for new airplanes. But what if they're thinking, let's say, 8-10 years down the road. What if their narrowbody needs are now met, and they feel that it's too many 737-900s for their plan. Would you install Scimitars for frames you intend to sell a some point? Maybe not. It's a different equation. That's what makes the theory rational. Doesn't matter how unlikely it is. It's at least a logical one.

deltal1011man wrote:

it depends on each airlines contract with Boeing.

Actually no, in this case, it doesn't. APB blended winglets are *standard* on the -900ER (I forgot about this). They aren't standard on the vanilla -900.
So Delta has no choice...

ryanov wrote:

I assume they don't use any part of the original winglet when doing scimitars, or am I wrong. If so, what do they do with all of that metal? Resell it? Scrap? Just curious.

I believe I read a while ago that they're converted to scimitars in the following method:

Winglet A is taken off a plane and converted to scimitar
Plane B comes in, winglet B comes off and is converted for the next plane, and scimitar A is installed
Plane C comes in, winglet C comes off and is converted for the next plane, and scimitar B is installed

And so on...

That's my understanding at least