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seansasLCY
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Updated: BE being bought for £2.2m by a consortium including VS, Stobart Group and Cyrus Capital

Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:42 pm

https://news.sky.com/story/virgin-atlan ... e-11560548

According to Sky News, Virgin Atlantic is in talks to purchase Flybe.
Last edited by SQ22 on Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:39 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
BestWestern
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Re: Sky News: Virgin and Flybe in talks

Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:45 pm

Virgin or virgin Atlantic.

Is this just another one of Branson’s media games?
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BestWestern
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Re: Sky News: Virgin and Flybe in talks

Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:46 pm

Virgin had the Scottish slots - and gave them up, and now wants to buy them again.

On Thanksgiving?
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OzarkD9S
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Re: Sky News: Virgin and Flybe in talks

Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:49 pm

I smell the hands of DL/AF/KL behind this if true.
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seansasLCY
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:50 pm

This would give Virgin Atlantic quite a good base to make a hub at MAN. A strong domestic base to build from.
 
CX747
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:51 pm

I would love to see a vibrant Virgin Atlantic Airways again.
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sevenair
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:52 pm

Well that's interesting. It's been a week of rumours. The latest one was BACF. Now it's 'Virgin'. Virgin doesn't have a good track record when it comes to longevity. Little Red is dead. Virgin America has vanished as a brand. And although not entirely responsible themselves, Virgin Trains East Coast has gone the way of the dinosaur. Besides I'm not sure how well received Branson is here these days given his contempt for people with a certain political viewpoint.

Still. It could be worse. If it was the ones we don't speak of based in AUH then I'd be deeply concerned for flyBE's future.
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DobboDobbo
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:13 pm

seansasLCY wrote:
This would give Virgin Atlantic quite a good base to make a hub at MAN. A strong domestic base to build from.


My thoughts exactly. Gives the DL/AF/KL/KE bloc the chance to create a UK hub.
 
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NYPECO
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:17 pm

Flybe owned by Virgin Atlantic owned by Delta.
 
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:21 pm

Mark Kleinman’s track record on exclusives is excellent so there is something behind this.
 
BestWestern
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:21 pm

Why would Delta buy Flybe?

Can delta buy Flybe?
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VS4ever
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:27 pm

BestWestern wrote:
Why would Delta buy Flybe?

Can delta buy Flybe?

Delta can’t, but their 49% owned sub, VS can.
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jbs2886
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Re: Sky News: Virgin and Flybe in t

Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:33 pm

This could be a good move to build more loyalty to Virgin in the UK and provide a lot of feed.
Last edited by jbs2886 on Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
jbs2886
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Re: Sky News: Virgin and Flybe in talks

Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:34 pm

BestWestern wrote:
Virgin had the Scottish slots - and gave them up, and now wants to buy them again.

On Thanksgiving?


Lol...you realize there is no Thanksgiving in the UK?
 
JamesCousins
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:35 pm

sevenair wrote:
Well that's interesting. It's been a week of rumours. The latest one was BACF. Now it's 'Virgin'. Virgin doesn't have a good track record when it comes to longevity. Little Red is dead. Virgin America has vanished as a brand. And although not entirely responsible themselves, Virgin Trains East Coast has gone the way of the dinosaur. Besides I'm not sure how well received Branson is here these days given his contempt for people with a certain political viewpoint.

Still. It could be worse. If it was the ones we don't speak of based in AUH then I'd be deeply concerned for flyBE's future.


It's clearly the DL/AF/KLM pulling the string here, Virgin America was sold for huge sums of money (and was profitable), Little Red was pre-DL era, and had a tiny network. I also don't think the Stagecoach/Virgin owned former East Coast line has any bearing here. VS are far less about Branson now than it ever has been...
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:37 pm

BestWestern wrote:
Why would Delta buy Flybe?

Can delta buy Flybe?


As was said above, VS can be used to buy Flybe. As for why, it could help fortify the Virgin base at Manchester, and give VS a proper short-haul airline network to build feed from. The big issue Virgin has at the moment is lack of traffic feed. If done right, this could strengthen their long haul ops in the future, and put them in a great place for Heathrow's 3rd runway once that comes to fruition.
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BestWestern
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:43 pm

virgin launched little red for feed which failed.


Now they want to buy Flybe? For what. Inverness to Norwich gives virgin no benefit. It gives Delta no benefit.

Virgin is loss making.

This has to be a joke.
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SFOThinker
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:45 pm

A second U.K. Hub at MAN is an intriguing thought. I would guess that while the catchment population is a healthy fraction (1/3?) of LON, the front cabin market is far, far smaller.
But I would suspect that operational costs would be lower, and slots not an issue at MAN.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:47 pm

BestWestern wrote:

virgin launched little red for feed which failed.


Now they want to buy Flybe? For what. Inverness to Norwich gives virgin no benefit. It gives Delta no benefit.

Virgin is loss making.

This has to be a joke.


Reworking the Flybe network to focus on VS/DL/AF/KL connections in the regions?
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baje427
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:57 pm

It would be interesting to see what DL could do with BE I have to imagine the Q400 days would be numbered.
 
jbs2886
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:03 pm

OzarkD9S wrote:
BestWestern wrote:

virgin launched little red for feed which failed.


Now they want to buy Flybe? For what. Inverness to Norwich gives virgin no benefit. It gives Delta no benefit.

Virgin is loss making.

This has to be a joke.


Reworking the Flybe network to focus on VS/DL/AF/KL connections in the regions?


Exactly. I think there is a lot of opportunity here for VS to build feed and brand in the UK. DL management will help a lot with issues with Flybe. Who knows, maybe some Q400s will move to operate for AF-KLM to reduce capacity.
 
BHXRunway15
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:13 pm

OzarkD9S wrote:
BestWestern wrote:


Reworking the Flybe network to focus on VS/DL/AF/KL connections in the regions?


That bit is definitely understandable feeding long-haul at Manchester, Glasgow (mainly summer) and Heathrow (now three domestics) but as a BHX local I would like to know what their intentions would be. BHX has between 90 and 120 weekday movements from 10 to 12 based aircraft and it is difficult to believe they would be interested in flying BHX-MXP, TXL, STR, DUS, LYS, NTE, HAM, HAJ, NQY or IOM. AMS is served by KLM and CDG AF which would be the same group.
 
KLDC10
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:15 pm

BestWestern wrote:
virgin launched little red for feed which failed.


Now they want to buy Flybe? For what. Inverness to Norwich gives virgin no benefit. It gives Delta no benefit.

Virgin is loss making.

This has to be a joke.


Presumably we will see some big changes if this plan comes to fruition. I'd expect some loss-making internal UK routes to loss service entirely, while Virgin Atlantic focuses on optimizing the route network to fit in with the wider Virgin/Delta/AirFrance/KLM network.
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sevenair
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:18 pm

JamesCousins wrote:
sevenair wrote:
Well that's interesting. It's been a week of rumours. The latest one was BACF. Now it's 'Virgin'. Virgin doesn't have a good track record when it comes to longevity. Little Red is dead. Virgin America has vanished as a brand. And although not entirely responsible themselves, Virgin Trains East Coast has gone the way of the dinosaur. Besides I'm not sure how well received Branson is here these days given his contempt for people with a certain political viewpoint.

Still. It could be worse. If it was the ones we don't speak of based in AUH then I'd be deeply concerned for flyBE's future.


It's clearly the DL/AF/KLM pulling the string here, Virgin America was sold for huge sums of money (and was profitable), Little Red was pre-DL era, and had a tiny network. I also don't think the Stagecoach/Virgin owned former East Coast line has any bearing here. VS are far less about Branson now than it ever has been...


Virgin as company sees less or Branson but he's still the figurehead reeled out for their media machine. I'm well aware of the mechanics behind the virgin brands but what it means is there's no longevity. Virgin brands come and go. Whatever nonsense name they'll spin for Virigin/flyBE won't last very long. Virgin Little Red Back from the Dead? Virgin Express 2.0? Virgin Europe? It'll last five minutes. Yet another virgib brand will come and go.

On reality I wouldn't get my hopes up if I worked at BE or was part of the supply chain. Virgin are just using them to get their less than stellar performance wise airline in the papers.
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opticalilyushin
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:25 pm

Given both Virgin and Flybe both have a presence in the Manchester, Glasgow and seasonal Belfast markets (albeit the latter in different airports), it could indeed be interesting to see how this partnership could go. Flybe and Virgin already have a strong partnership with passengers being fed from all over the UK to Manchester.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:29 pm

BHXRunway15 wrote:

That bit is definitely understandable feeding long-haul at Manchester, Glasgow (mainly summer) and Heathrow (now three domestics) but as a BHX local I would like to know what their intentions would be. BHX has between 90 and 120 weekday movements from 10 to 12 based aircraft and it is difficult to believe they would be interested in flying BHX-MXP, TXL, STR, DUS, LYS, NTE, HAM, HAJ, NQY or IOM. AMS is served by KLM and CDG AF which would be the same group.


Why would they need to? If local BHX traffic can make money on its current network, no need to flow that traffic over CDG/AMS. If it doesn't rework the network to what does make money. Could a sizable BHX op perhaps support a few DL TATL flights, JFK/ATL/BOS? No need for MAN to have all the fun.
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RJNUT
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:32 pm

baje427 wrote:
It would be interesting to see what DL could do with BE I have to imagine the Q400 days would be numbered.

54 of their fleet of 78 are Q400 so for short term they will be around in droves!
 
3AWM
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:36 pm

From viewtopic.php?t=1396947

quote="3AWM"]£93m net assets - whole airline for the list price of a new narrowbody.

Maybe an M&A opportunity for someone who needs a shorthaul network in the UK - new Virgin/Delta/AF/KLM vehicle?

Comes with 7 free daily slot pairs at LHR .

https://www.routesonline.com/news/29/br ... edy-slots/[/quote]
 
sevenair
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:55 pm

I wonder if canceling BFS and GLA MCO flights could be an option and replacing low frequency flights with daily flights via their MAN hub?
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MIflyer12
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Thu Nov 22, 2018 9:01 pm

JamesCousins wrote:

It's clearly the DL/AF/KLM pulling the string here, Virgin America was sold for huge sums of money (and was profitable)...


SQ had to take a write-down when selling its equity stake to DL in 2012. Delta bought a 49.9% stake for $360 million, roughly three weeks' of Delta operating income 3Q18. Virgin Atlantic had an operating profit of GBP 18.5 million in 2010-2011, a sum that wouldn't buy 1/5th of a 787. It had a loss of GBP 132 million in 2009-2010. In a Sept '13 article CAPA wrote:

Virgin Atlantic has made an annual profit only once in the past four years and saw a widening of underlying losses in its most recent annual accounts. The number one priority should be to take action to reduce these losses.

https://centreforaviation.com/analysis/ ... uld-129215

The idea that VS had a viable business plan in the five years before Delta's purchase is absolute fiction. The position reflects gross lack of information, or ideology that doesn't care about fact.
 
tullamarine
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Thu Nov 22, 2018 9:29 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
JamesCousins wrote:

It's clearly the DL/AF/KLM pulling the string here, Virgin America was sold for huge sums of money (and was profitable)...


SQ had to take a write-down when selling its equity stake to DL in 2012. Delta bought a 49.9% stake for $360 million, roughly three weeks' of Delta operating income 3Q18. Virgin Atlantic had an operating profit of GBP 18.5 million in 2010-2011, a sum that wouldn't buy 1/5th of a 787. It had a loss of GBP 132 million in 2009-2010. In a Sept '13 article CAPA wrote:

Virgin Atlantic has made an annual profit only once in the past four years and saw a widening of underlying losses in its most recent annual accounts. The number one priority should be to take action to reduce these losses.

https://centreforaviation.com/analysis/ ... uld-129215

The idea that VS had a viable business plan in the five years before Delta's purchase is absolute fiction. The position reflects gross lack of information, or ideology that doesn't care about fact.

You do realise the poster was talking about VX which was profitable and sold at a huge profit for original investors including Branson.
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opticalilyushin
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Thu Nov 22, 2018 9:29 pm

sevenair wrote:
I wonder if canceling BFS and GLA MCO flights could be an option and replacing low frequency flights with daily flights via their MAN hub?


It's possible, but besides the attraction of flying direct to see Mickey Mouse etc. BFS and GLA flights often take advantage of the earlier school summer holiday times vs. English and Welsh schools, so they get some extra work early in the summer before the big demand from London and Manchester kicks in.
 
caaardiff
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Thu Nov 22, 2018 9:52 pm

- Virgin Little Red operated Airbus on the domestic routes which were too big for what they needed. Flybe are already operating LHR-EDI & ABZ which could be strengthened for much needed connections that VS need through LHR, along with the recently announced NQY flights. Operated on a much more efficient aircraft to the demand that VS has.
- Secondly BE has a big presence at MAN as does VS, which could grow even further.
- It may also see a stronger return of BE in LGW feeding VS flights from there, and also flights from GLA which BE already codeshare on.
- Add into the mix DL's connections as well from various airports.


I wonder if cancelling BFS and GLA MCO flights could be an option and replacing low frequency flights with daily flights via their MAN hub?


BFS and GLA are more holiday routes for Virgin Holidays which are probably better off operated as direct flights from those Airports.

Throw into the mix a possible additional feed for KL/AF. BE already have strong links with AF codeshares through CDG and operate into AMS which would provide additional slots to feed KL. This could free up KL Cityhopper aircraft for new routes throughout Europe.

As a group project I see this as a positive for all carriers involved if they can get the route network and feed right.

What's left is the bases that provide little addition to the group of Airlines which could see cuts. BHX has it's own BE fortress if they wanted to keep that running.
 
eirflot
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Thu Nov 22, 2018 10:08 pm

Perhaps VS is just trying to secure the feed it already has at Manchester? The capital outlay required to buy BE should not present a problem to VS or any of its sgareholders. It ciuld offer feed to all of them!!!
 
DobboDobbo
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Thu Nov 22, 2018 10:21 pm

I think a VS-led purchase of BE offers a number of opportunities for VS and its partners, DL, KL, AF, KE.

1 - It provides an opportunity to obtain a dominant position in the UK air market, by domestic point to point and also obtain further feeder traffic into its hubs (see points 2 and 3).

2 - It may enable VS to develop a UK hub. In the immediate term, that opportunity is at MAN, but in the long term this may position the group well to obtain slots at an expanded LHR. Either way, synchronising the BE feed into VS and partners air services could be a major boost to VS's emerging operation at MAN.

3 - It should solidify KL's position for feed from the UK regions. BE already feeds KL at AMS and AF at CDG - if schedules can be synchronised this operation can be improved.

4 - will they rebrand BE as a "Virgin" brand?

This is not without its downsides - BE obviously have their challenges financially that will have to be corrected, but for a large group backed by DL it may be too tempting an opportunity to gain a foothold in a major european market.
 
BestWestern
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Thu Nov 22, 2018 10:34 pm

DobboDobbo wrote:
I think a VS-led purchase of BE offers a number of opportunities for VS and its partners, DL, KL, AF, KE.

1 - It provides an opportunity to obtain a dominant position in the UK air market, by domestic point to point and also obtain further feeder traffic into its hubs (see points 2 and 3).

2 - It may enable VS to develop a UK hub. In the immediate term, that opportunity is at MAN, but in the long term this may position the group well to obtain slots at an expanded LHR. Either way, synchronising the BE feed into VS and partners air services could be a major boost to VS's emerging operation at MAN.

3 - It should solidify KL's position for feed from the UK regions. BE already feeds KL at AMS and AF at CDG - if schedules can be synchronised this operation can be improved.

4 - will they rebrand BE as a "Virgin" brand?

This is not without its downsides - BE obviously have their challenges financially that will have to be corrected, but for a large group backed by DL it may be too tempting an opportunity to gain a foothold in a major european market.


So where would Flybe connect to via Manchester that isn’t already connected via Amsterdam?

Delta / Vs have tried and failed with short haul connections at Heathrow.

Flybe can only codeshare on two KL routes.

Virgin is lossmaking. Buying another loss making company in a different segment doesn’t make a profitable one.

If DL do buy Flybe, it’s just for the Heathrow slots.
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Arion640
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Thu Nov 22, 2018 10:41 pm

BestWestern wrote:


Now they want to buy Flybe? For what. Inverness to Norwich gives virgin no benefit. It gives Delta no benefit.


Except there is more to flybe than just Inverness to Norwich. They have a fair bank of operations at BHX/MAN/LCY and a limited operation at LHR. The mentioned airports are BA and Easyjet back yards.
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DobboDobbo
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Thu Nov 22, 2018 10:51 pm

BestWestern wrote:
DobboDobbo wrote:
I think a VS-led purchase of BE offers a number of opportunities for VS and its partners, DL, KL, AF, KE.

1 - It provides an opportunity to obtain a dominant position in the UK air market, by domestic point to point and also obtain further feeder traffic into its hubs (see points 2 and 3).

2 - It may enable VS to develop a UK hub. In the immediate term, that opportunity is at MAN, but in the long term this may position the group well to obtain slots at an expanded LHR. Either way, synchronising the BE feed into VS and partners air services could be a major boost to VS's emerging operation at MAN.

3 - It should solidify KL's position for feed from the UK regions. BE already feeds KL at AMS and AF at CDG - if schedules can be synchronised this operation can be improved.

4 - will they rebrand BE as a "Virgin" brand?

This is not without its downsides - BE obviously have their challenges financially that will have to be corrected, but for a large group backed by DL it may be too tempting an opportunity to gain a foothold in a major european market.


So where would Flybe connect to via Manchester that isn’t already connected via Amsterdam?

Delta / Vs have tried and failed with short haul connections at Heathrow.

Flybe can only codeshare on two KL routes.

Virgin is lossmaking. Buying another loss making company in a different segment doesn’t make a profitable one.

If DL do buy Flybe, it’s just for the Heathrow slots.


I think you have too high an expectation for what this deal could achieve.

I don't expect it to revolutionise the structure of what VS and its partners are doing. They aren't going to compete with IAG at LHR, and MAN isn't going to offer a route portfolio to rival AMS for example.

VS has lost money, but it remains a business with potential. There are clearly issues that it has to resolve, and buying BE certainly isn't a panacea to that.

In my view it is a step in the right direction, not an end point.
 
peanuts
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Thu Nov 22, 2018 10:51 pm

BestWestern wrote:
virgin launched little red for feed which failed.


Now they want to buy Flybe? For what. Inverness to Norwich gives virgin no benefit. It gives Delta no benefit.

Virgin is loss making.

This has to be a joke.


Man oh man.
This is actually a huge opportunity. Change it up. This is all DL pulling the strings, (and a little AF/KL).
DL took an interest in Virgin to make it better. This a part of that puzzle.
Give it a few years and the joke is probably on you...


BTW: The LHR slots are fenced in for domestic use, if you'd read the article. So, no, DL is not after that for its own use...
 
konkret
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Thu Nov 22, 2018 10:59 pm

If Virgin Atlantic purchases Flybe could they rebrand themselves to Flybe to save on royalties for the usage of the Virgin brand?
 
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FlyRow
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:15 pm

OzarkD9S wrote:
BestWestern wrote:

virgin launched little red for feed which failed.


Now they want to buy Flybe? For what. Inverness to Norwich gives virgin no benefit. It gives Delta no benefit.

Virgin is loss making.

This has to be a joke.


Reworking the Flybe network to focus on VS/DL/AF/KL connections in the regions?


Damm just for a second imagine the feeder network that would give KLM in Amsterdam. That would give a insane amount of frequencies, destinations and options for FlyBE-KLM. I believe FlyBE is in the top10 opeartors at Schiphol.
Would make BA be ashamed of coalling itself "British".
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JobsaGoodun
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:25 pm

I think the synergies of a relationship between VS and BE are there.

There is clearly an opportunity here for VS to lock in important feed tomtheir long haul network through UK domestic connections. I think it's also worth remembering that BE has a long standing relationship with AF and is about the 5/6th largest holder of slots at CDG, in addition it has a similar sized slot holding and status at AMS, an airport now at full capacity in terms of the number of annual movements allowed by its planning permission....hmmmm, didn't AF/KLM just buy into VS with a 30% share?

I'd have thought a deeper relationship between BE and VS is a way of VS securing feed on UK domestic whilst also providing a way for both AF and KL to further strengthen their positions at their respective hubs using BE slots?
Last edited by JobsaGoodun on Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
JamesCousins
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Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:25 pm

konkret wrote:
If Virgin Atlantic purchases Flybe could they rebrand themselves to Flybe to save on royalties for the usage of the Virgin brand?


Sorry... what?? The chances of this happening are zilch.

a) Virgin Group still own 20% Virgin Atlantic
b) Sale of Virgin companies often come with tie-ins in terms of how long a brand name has to be used
c) The brand has huge global reach
d) The cost of re-branding would far out weight any savings
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JamesCousins
Posts: 315
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:19 pm

Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:30 pm

peanuts wrote:
BestWestern wrote:
virgin launched little red for feed which failed.


Now they want to buy Flybe? For what. Inverness to Norwich gives virgin no benefit. It gives Delta no benefit.

Virgin is loss making.

This has to be a joke.


Man oh man.
This is actually a huge opportunity. Change it up. This is all DL pulling the strings, (and a little AF/KL).
DL took an interest in Virgin to make it better. This a part of that puzzle.
Give it a few years and the joke is probably on you...


BTW: The LHR slots are fenced in for domestic use, if you'd read the article. So, no, DL is not after that for its own use...


100% agree. This whole potential deal is about the bigger picture, this is far more than just Virgin Atlantic. This is as much about DL and AF-KLM exerting a greater degree of control over the European sector as it as growing Virgin's network. The reason Little Red failed was because the network was just so poor. Compounded with a small, wet-leased fleet that provided little versatility for upscaling/downscaling depending on demand and it was almost a foregone conclusion. Flybe already has a large network and customer base that can be built up, rather than trying to start from essentially scratch.
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JamesCousins
Posts: 315
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:19 pm

Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:34 pm

sevenair wrote:
JamesCousins wrote:
sevenair wrote:
the virgin brands but what it means is there's no longevity. Virgin brands come and go. Whatever nonsense name they'll spin for Virigin/flyBE won't last very long. Virgin Little Red Back from the Dead? Virgin Express 2.0? Virgin Europe? It'll last five minutes. Yet another virgib brand will come and go.


Whilst I'd agree to an extent that there have been numerous 'failed'/'short lived' Virgin business ventures, to ignore long lasting, profitable companies such as Virgin Atlantic, Virgin Australia, Virgin Trains, Virgin Active, Virgin Holidays, Virgin Mobile, Virgin Media.... is nonsensical. While Virgin don't have a sensational record in all industries, the current VS ownership and fleet structure puts it in a very good position in terms of sustainability, whether we see a Flybe deal or not...
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konkret
Posts: 203
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:26 pm

Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:37 pm

JamesCousins wrote:
konkret wrote:
If Virgin Atlantic purchases Flybe could they rebrand themselves to Flybe to save on royalties for the usage of the Virgin brand?


Sorry... what?? The chances of this happening are zilch.

a) Virgin Group still own 20% Virgin Atlantic
b) Sale of Virgin companies often come with tie-ins in terms of how long a brand name has to be used
c) The brand has huge global reach
d) The cost of re-branding would far out weight any savings


A - If Virgin Group has a veto power than this is a valid point.
B - that’s why I asked “could it change” because I am not familiar with the terms. are you?
C - I think you overestimate the value of the brand and especially its “global reach”. See what Alaska did with the Virgin brand in the US.
D - do you know how much does the airline pay for the brand on a yearly basis?
 
User avatar
chunhimlai
Posts: 280
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2015 11:03 am

Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:50 pm

Will VS start long haul flight in EXE after acquiring Flybe?
 
User avatar
FlyRow
Posts: 482
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:05 pm

Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Fri Nov 23, 2018 12:11 am

chunhimlai wrote:
Will VS start long haul flight in EXE after acquiring Flybe?


Lets not count our chickens before they hatch. Way to early to say or speculate.

What you are asking is a possible rumor about a rumor.
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User avatar
FlyRow
Posts: 482
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:05 pm

Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Fri Nov 23, 2018 12:13 am

konkret wrote:
JamesCousins wrote:
konkret wrote:
If Virgin Atlantic purchases Flybe could they rebrand themselves to Flybe to save on royalties for the usage of the Virgin brand?


Sorry... what?? The chances of this happening are zilch.

a) Virgin Group still own 20% Virgin Atlantic
b) Sale of Virgin companies often come with tie-ins in terms of how long a brand name has to be used
c) The brand has huge global reach
d) The cost of re-branding would far out weight any savings


A - If Virgin Group has a veto power than this is a valid point.
B - that’s why I asked “could it change” because I am not familiar with the terms. are you?
C - I think you overestimate the value of the brand and especially its “global reach”. See what Alaska did with the Virgin brand in the US.
D - do you know how much does the airline pay for the brand on a yearly basis?


Then again, a rebrand of FlyBE seems to fit strait in the business model they seem to have. I don't know how many times FlyBE has rebranded in the last years.
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garf25
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2005 8:26 pm

Re: Sky News: Virgin Atlantic and Flybe in talks

Fri Nov 23, 2018 12:24 am

You have to think about the difference between inbound and outbound tourism. VS will know this from their own data.

Could they shift all their outbound traffic to hubs like BHX and MAN to join mainline VS services via newly acquired turbo props?? Away from LHR? Maybe the new competition for LHR/BA, AMS/KLM, FRA/LT. Is there then a demand for inbound transfer onto local destinations??

There is life beyond LHR.
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