We all see UA, AA, B6 with their wide array of special liveries... But what about Delta? I know they have the Breast Cancer B764 and that they have pledged not to special liveries. My question is why? What is their reasoning behind the decision not to do a retro livery or two?

Special liveries cost more money than regular paintjobs? Thats the only thing I can think of....

IWMBH wrote:

Special liveries cost more money than regular paintjobs? Thats the only thing I can think of....

Playing the devil's advocate here... Delta ain't short on cash..

PotatoPappas wrote:

IWMBH wrote:

Special liveries cost more money than regular paintjobs? Thats the only thing I can think of....

Playing the devil's advocate here... Delta ain't short on cash..

And maybe that’s because they’re smart in how they spend their money?

DL has never been big on special liveries. As much as I’d love to see a NW bowling shoe throwback, it isn’t their thing

PotatoPappas wrote:

We all see UA, AA, B6 with their wide array of special liveries... But what about Delta? I know they have the Breast Cancer B764 and that they have pledged not to special liveries. My question is why? What is their reasoning behind the decision not to do a retro livery or two?

It's all in branding. They thought the pink widget took away from the brand and that's why the 764 got repainted.

Too conservative. Honoring your roots and the hard work of the employees who made the brands they represented successful throughout many years that either worked for DL or worked for companies that became DL is a nice tribute. Many people bled sweat, tears, and actual blood to make DL what it is today. For sure a Delta, Northwest, and Republic retrojet would be very appropriate and worth the pennies to the millions to repaint a few of the fleet

All of us current employees of Delta. Have always wondered the same thing. But we finally got an answer it's about branding Delta is really big on their branding. Now we do have SkyTeam planes. But I highly doubt we will see retro planes anytime soon. Even though I would love to see a 737 flying around with the old Delta widget. We can always dream

nine4nine wrote:

Too conservative. Honoring your roots and the hard work of the employees who made the brands they represented successful throughout many years that either worked for DL or worked for companies that became DL is a nice tribute. Many people bled sweat, tears, and actual blood to make DL what it is today. For sure a Delta, Northwest, and Republic retrojet would be very appropriate and worth the pennies to the millions to repaint a few of the fleet

That’s a pretty dramatic response over a paint job people will spend 10 seconds admiring before going about their day

PotatoPappas wrote:

IWMBH wrote:

Special liveries cost more money than regular paintjobs? Thats the only thing I can think of....

Playing the devil's advocate here... Delta ain't short on cash..

And playing another devil’s advocate...they’re smart enough not to waste that cash on something that’s frivolous and doesn’t really contribute to the airline’s overall goals.

My guess is that Delta management wants to avoid reinforcing the old identities of employees who joined the company from other carriers. The last thing they want is for people to remember how they did it at Northwest.
Delta has pulled off its mergers better than other carriers have, in general. Management is smart enough to realize that anything that detracts from employees' dedication to the Delta Way is to be avoided. The consistency in pushing the Delta brand is not just directed at the customers, it's directed at employees, too.

jetblueguy22 wrote:

nine4nine wrote:

Too conservative. Honoring your roots and the hard work of the employees who made the brands they represented successful throughout many years that either worked for DL or worked for companies that became DL is a nice tribute. Many people bled sweat, tears, and actual blood to make DL what it is today. For sure a Delta, Northwest, and Republic retrojet would be very appropriate and worth the pennies to the millions to repaint a few of the fleet

That’s a pretty dramatic response over a paint job people will spend 10 seconds admiring before going about their day

While I love your handle name I’m going to disagree with you. You are either a fan of JetBlue or an employee of B6. If it’s the later I’m sure you no doubt would love to see your livery on an airline who merged or bought them out would you not? Having love and pride for all you worked so hard for just to disappear would u not? Now granted B6 is rather a new player and has not inherited a lineage of workforce from any predecessor so u probably wouldn’t get it.

Chriswebb775 wrote:

Even though I would love to see a 737 flying around with the old Delta widget. We can always dream

I would love too see a widget A330-200. Remembering the A310s!

Keep Climbing = Focusing on what lies ahead rather than clinging to the past.

DL747400 wrote:

Keep Climbing = Focusing on what lies ahead rather than clinging to the past.

Either that or TCAS is panicking...

SFOThinker wrote:

My guess is that Delta management wants to avoid reinforcing the old identities of employees who joined the company from other carriers. The last thing they want is for people to remember how they did it at Northwest.
Delta has pulled off its mergers better than other carriers have, in general. Management is smart enough to realize that anything that detracts from employees' dedication to the Delta Way is to be avoided. The consistency in pushing the Delta brand is not just directed at the customers, it's directed at employees, too.

This has definitely got to be part of it. When I worked for Union Pacific Railroad, we had 6 heritage locomotives representing the major carriers that made up the modern day UP. My last job was in Kansas where the Missouri Pacific and Katy both operated. Every year, one of the small towns had “Katy Days” to honor the former line. It ended up being a celebration of both railroads and we would have both heritage locomotives brought in and put on display. Every year, we would have former employees of both roads, who now worked together under the UP brand, almost come to blows because they would reminisce over which railroad did things better. The Katy went bankrupt letting employees run rampant whereas the WP management basically took over the UP when the two merged but kept the UP name for obvious historical reasons. It’s cool paying tribute to the past but make sure there aren’t going to be issues amongst the labor groups!

To paraphrase a former Delta CEO, "We do have heritage liveries, and they are where they belong: in the museum."
I tend to agree. One or two is okay, assuming they're worth it (e.g. Delta widget, British Airways landor) but American's are tacky and dilute the brand.

SFOThinker wrote:

My guess is that Delta management wants to avoid reinforcing the old identities of employees who joined the company from other carriers. The last thing they want is for people to remember how they did it at Northwest.
Delta has pulled off its mergers better than other carriers have, in general. Management is smart enough to realize that anything that detracts from employees' dedication to the Delta Way is to be avoided. The consistency in pushing the Delta brand is not just directed at the customers, it's directed at employees, too.

Bingo.

SFOThinker wrote:

My guess is that Delta management wants to avoid reinforcing the old identities of employees who joined the company from other carriers. The last thing they want is for people to remember how they did it at Northwest.
Delta has pulled off its mergers better than other carriers have, in general. Management is smart enough to realize that anything that detracts from employees' dedication to the Delta Way is to be avoided. The consistency in pushing the Delta brand is not just directed at the customers, it's directed at employees, too.

Bingo.

jetlanta wrote:

SFOThinker wrote:

My guess is that Delta management wants to avoid reinforcing the old identities of employees who joined the company from other carriers. The last thing they want is for people to remember how they did it at Northwest.
Delta has pulled off its mergers better than other carriers have, in general. Management is smart enough to realize that anything that detracts from employees' dedication to the Delta Way is to be avoided. The consistency in pushing the Delta brand is not just directed at the customers, it's directed at employees, too.

Bingo.

And exactly why UA needs to dump the CO branding.

nine4nine wrote:

Too conservative. Honoring your roots and the hard work of the employees who made the brands they represented successful throughout many years that either worked for DL or worked for companies that became DL is a nice tribute. Many people bled sweat, tears, and actual blood to make DL what it is today. For sure a Delta, Northwest, and Republic retrojet would be very appropriate and worth the pennies to the millions to repaint a few of the fleet

If you were to do that, you'd probably have to add at least Western, and then, maybe Northeast. If you want to go even further back, there's Chicago & Southern (and I'm not even counting some of the companies that became Northwest, like Bonanza + West Coast + Pacific to form Air West > Hughes Airwest, and Southern all of which ended up as Republic. it would get ridiculous. I am not really sure what the point is, including at American with a bunch of airlines nobody remembers (Reno Air?). At United, Continental was a strong brand but you pretty much don't want to include Texas International / New York Air (shades of Frank Lorenzo), People Express (too cheap an image), and Capital merged into United back in 1960, so you're essentially left with Continental (which had an arguably better reputation than United in recent years).

Delta, at least IMO, doesn't need that.

Historically, off the top of my head ...

1) pink (breast cancer awareness on a variety of aircraft, but never more than one at a time)
2) 1996 Olympics (on both the MD11 and Ship 102)
3) Ship 102 (which carried several special liveries itself as Spirit of Delta)

Beyond that, basically nothing but the company brand, and when they have changed livery (e.g. the red widget), the repaints happen very fast.

DL747400 wrote:

Keep Climbing = Focusing on what lies ahead rather than clinging to the past.

Kind of makes you think why they decided to randomly tilt the widget on the tail if "looking upward" is their theme.

Branding consistency but the Widget on the fuselage is pointing upright while the one on the tail is awkwardly tilted for no apparent reason... very consistent stuff.

I could see them do it as commemoration for some very special occasion. If there is any occasion worthy of special liveries, it is a centennial celebration. Per wikipedia, Delta began passenger service in 1929. Western began carrying pax in 1926 and NW in 1927. Those centennials are coming fast. Mark your calendars now for a whole fleet of DL retro liveries to celebrate the 2029 centennial. And if they have any intention of ever doing a merger legacy livery, I think that the WA centennial in 2026 is the earliest that we would see such a thing.

Veigar wrote:

DL747400 wrote:

Keep Climbing = Focusing on what lies ahead rather than clinging to the past.

Kind of makes you think why they decided to randomly tilt the widget on the tail if "looking upward" is their theme.

Branding consistency but the Widget on the fuselage is pointing upright while the one on the tail is awkwardly tilted for no apparent reason... very consistent stuff.

Look at the pre-merger NW liveries. I've always thought that the DL widget is tilted on the tail to approximate the compass arrow from the Northwest logo. It's not random.

redzeppelin wrote:

I could see them do it as commemoration for some very special occasion. If there is any occasion worthy of special liveries, it is a centennial celebration. Per wikipedia, Delta began passenger service in 1929. Western began carrying pax in 1926 and NW in 1927. Those centennials are coming fast. Mark your calendars now for a whole fleet of DL retro liveries to celebrate the 2029 centennial. And if they have any intention of ever doing a merger legacy livery, I think that the WA centennial in 2026 is the earliest that we would see such a thing.

Next year the first airline ever will hit the 100 year mark, KLM

redzeppelin wrote:

Veigar wrote:

DL747400 wrote:

Keep Climbing = Focusing on what lies ahead rather than clinging to the past.

Kind of makes you think why they decided to randomly tilt the widget on the tail if "looking upward" is their theme.

Branding consistency but the Widget on the fuselage is pointing upright while the one on the tail is awkwardly tilted for no apparent reason... very consistent stuff.

Look at the pre-merger NW liveries. I've always thought that the DL widget is tilted on the tail to approximate the compass arrow from the Northwest logo. It's not random.

The current Delta livery was introduced prior to any rumblings of a potential DL-NW merger. The tilted widget references an airplane taking off. Onward and upward.

nine4nine wrote:

jetblueguy22 wrote:

nine4nine wrote:

Too conservative. Honoring your roots and the hard work of the employees who made the brands they represented successful throughout many years that either worked for DL or worked for companies that became DL is a nice tribute. Many people bled sweat, tears, and actual blood to make DL what it is today. For sure a Delta, Northwest, and Republic retrojet would be very appropriate and worth the pennies to the millions to repaint a few of the fleet

That’s a pretty dramatic response over a paint job people will spend 10 seconds admiring before going about their day

While I love your handle name I’m going to disagree with you. You are either a fan of JetBlue or an employee of B6. If it’s the later I’m sure you no doubt would love to see your livery on an airline who merged or bought them out would you not? Having love and pride for all you worked so hard for just to disappear would u not? Now granted B6 is rather a new player and has not inherited a lineage of workforce from any predecessor so u probably wouldn’t get it.

Don’t work for or even really fly them. Loved them when I made the account 10 years ago when I was a teen, now I’m a WN flyer with some DL mixed in.

I was a NW lover when I was a kid, so really saying I don’t understand is a bit silly. I even mentioned I would love a bowling shoe livery throwback. But if you identify only with the past and not the hard work being put in now, something is wrong. Things evolve and change. You don’t have to forget the past, but you have to learn to live in the present.

nine4nine wrote:

Too conservative. Honoring your roots and the hard work of the employees who made the brands they represented successful throughout many years that either worked for DL or worked for companies that became DL is a nice tribute. Many people bled sweat, tears, and actual blood to make DL what it is today. For sure a Delta, Northwest, and Republic retrojet would be very appropriate and worth the pennies to the millions to repaint a few of the fleet

Except how do you measure that? There's a cost/benefit ratio that's almost impossible to quantify and DL really doesn't have to bother with it. A frequent traveller doesn't give a F (or Y, or Q or J) what aircraft they're on, let alone what paint is on it.

Related, I'm the first one to want A220s painted up in North Central, Southern and Hughes Airwest, but where do you draw the line? Foamers/anoraks willl be in fistfights for their favorite livery and why was that one chosen? Weren't NW's 744s in at least two--the 742s in three?

Norfolk Southern Railway painted twenty locomotives in the liveries of their predecessor railroads. I'm eternally grateful, but I didn't buy more NSC stock because they did.

My question is why there is such a fixation on heritage liveries in the US?

Just to look at a few European carriers, there's no one clamoring for AF to paint a 777 up as UTA, or a 320 as Air Inter. No one asking Brussels for a Sabena 330.

The only popular trend is for retrojets, like LH, AF, KL, and AZ for example, have all done. But it's never a defunct carrier

dampfnudel wrote:

PotatoPappas wrote:

IWMBH wrote:

Special liveries cost more money than regular paintjobs? Thats the only thing I can think of....

Playing the devil's advocate here... Delta ain't short on cash..

And playing another devil’s advocate...they’re smart enough not to waste that cash on something that’s frivolous and doesn’t really contribute to the airline’s overall goals.

And you're very right!

dampfnudel wrote:

PotatoPappas wrote:

IWMBH wrote:

Special liveries cost more money than regular paintjobs? Thats the only thing I can think of....

Playing the devil's advocate here... Delta ain't short on cash..

And playing another devil’s advocate...they’re smart enough not to waste that cash on something that’s frivolous and doesn’t really contribute to the airline’s overall goals.

Exactly, their overall goals are to reduce frontline staff to non-benefited (no benefits except flight) ready reserve positions.

TransWorldOne wrote:

The current Delta livery was introduced prior to any rumblings of a potential DL-NW merger. The tilted widget references an airplane taking off. Onward and upward.

Totally disagree. The current DL livery, including the use of the color red for the entire widget is a clear and unmistakable nod to the NW compass. The angle and direction in which the DL widget is pointed neatly align with the NW compass arrow.

Deals like DL/NW don't happen overnight and they don't occur in a vacuum. They unfold over time and as a result of many meetings and negotiations behind the scenes. Read into that what you will.

DL747400 wrote:

Totally disagree. The current DL livery, including the use of the color red for the entire widget is a clear and unmistakable nod to the NW compass. The angle and direction in which the DL widget is pointed neatly align with the NW compass arrow.

Deals like DL/NW don't happen overnight and they don't occur in a vacuum. They unfold over time and as a result of many meetings and negotiations behind the scenes. Read into that what you will.

Myth: A widely held but false belief or idea. Here are the facts:

April 30, 2007: Delta livery unveiled
November 2007: Delta set up a board committee and hired financial and legal advisors to help explore/review merger options
April 15, 2008: Delta/Northwest merger announced

Given a new livery takes anywhere from 6-12 months to design and research, Lippincott (the agency that designed the livery) probably started work in mid-2006, more than a full year before Delta even started looking at merger options, and almost two years before the merger announcement. (Not to mention Delta's advisors were exploring a merger with United, too).

In addition, if the livery was a nod to Northwest, this would be something Delta would want to highlight and not keep "secret." Yet nowhere at any time did Delta or Lippincott ever mention Northwest.

The A.net board can speculate all it wants about special liveries at Delta, but beyond what already exists there won't be any type of heritage or merger participant liveries. Current leadership have a crystal clear point of view on this. In fact the SkyTeam airplanes are going to cycle out of their special paint and back to regular Delta.

As for the speculation of the angled widget and Northwest? Pure and complete fiction.

777Mech wrote:

It's all in branding. They thought the pink widget took away from the brand and that's why the 764 got repainted.

I’m not a fan of retro liveries. I agree DL should keep the branding clean, consistent and focused. However, I did like the pink widget livery and believe that it is much more consistent with the overall branding than the current BCRF livery with a pink ribbon scrolled around the fuselage.

Delta offers pink uniforms and accessories for employees that are of the same design and standard of the official uniform except for the color. This to me is equivalent to the pink widget livery.

ord wrote:

Myth: A widely held but false belief or idea.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. I respectfully disagree.

A lot of overreaction. My thoughts are it is fun, inexpensive (in the big scheme of things), and it isn't significant enough to erode brand consistency and/or encourage division in the ranks. After all, it is 2-3 planes that get repainted every 5 years in multi-billion dollar company with a fleet of more than 800 aircraft.

Every time I see one of the various heritage liveries that AA has at present, there is always something a little bit off. They didn't get the colors exactly right, or the retro livery is not 100% true to the original. And of course, seeing A m e r i c a n titles with another carrier's livery just doesn't seem right. I understand why it has to be that way, but still doesn't look right. Just me I guess. I recall feeling the same way about the big D E L T A stickers that were applied to WA and PA aircraft when those carriers/assets were acquired by DL.

I agree with others who think that retro/special liveries generally dilute the brand. A centerpiece of Delta's brand is consistency. Especially after the big CapEx on refurbishing the domestic fleet, the aircraft look great and are very consistent. Changing the exterior of small number of aircraft would work against the effort that they have put so much money and time into.

I have always thought that 717 retrojets for the legacy Northwest/Republic carriers would be very cool, particularly because short haul ops in the 100-seat category defined all of those airlines' operations, and Delta done fantastically after introducing the 717 for similar operations. The problem, though, is that Delta runs their 717 fleet across all 48 contiguous states and rotates aircraft through all it hubs. The locals would love to see a "Southern" 717 on ATL-HSV, but it wouldn't really make sense to see a "Bonanza" or "Hughes Airwest" 717 at those stations. Plus, for a retrojet to really be historic in needs the exact livery of the defunct airline, which few carriers actually commit to. I have no idea how a TWA 737 with a gray fuselage and American titles is remotely historic. Therefore, I just don't think there is a way to pull it off.

I totally disagree with above comments that frequent flyers don't care what kind of plane they're on. The DL 747 retirement flights ran up to a million Skymiles for a domestic business class seat and a glass of $12 a bottle champagne! I think they could do even more to sell aviation history and culture as a lifestyle brand, and I think you will see companies like DL try to do more with that. I just doublt retrojets will be part of the menu.

litz wrote:

1) pink (breast cancer awareness on a variety of aircraft, but never more than one at a time)
2) 1996 Olympics (on both the MD11 and Ship 102)
3) Ship 102 (which carried several special liveries itself as Spirit of Delta)

Beyond that, basically nothing but the company brand, and when they have changed livery (e.g. the red widget), the repaints happen very fast.

Hardly.......


1976 US Bicentennial livery, 72S






2002 Olympics livery: "Soaring Spirit," 77E





2002 Olympics livery: "Salt Lake 2002," 752 and CR2





2007 "Hank Aaron 755" livery, 752





2008 "Grammy-phone" livery, 752





2010 "Bobby Cox #6" livery, 752






2014 Habitat for Humanity livery, 763ER