MileHFL400
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Burundi rejects Kenya Airways subsidiary flight rights

Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:07 pm

According to this article the Burundi rejected Jambojet rights to fly to its capital over lack of premium seats for government bigwigs. Unbelievable, glad to see where their priorities are.

https://mobile.nation.co.ke/news/Burund ... index.html
Thanks and best Regards
AA
 
drdisque
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Re: Burundi rejects Kenya Airways subsidiary flight rights

Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:46 pm

If they care so much they should have just put out a presser saying "since Kenya Airways/Jambojet aren't offering business class to BJM, all Burundi government traffic will now travel via ADD on ET since they offer it".
 
eamondzhang
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Re: Burundi rejects Kenya Airways subsidiary flight rights

Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:11 pm

Typical African government unfortunately. I seriously doubt many of their officials will travel to anywhere anyway.

Michael
 
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eastafspot
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Re: Burundi rejects Kenya Airways subsidiary flight rights

Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:23 am

What a joke!!
Burundi has 2 aircraft (Beechcraft 1900 and Xian MA60 ) sitting idle at Bujumbura airport!
What are they waiting to retrofit them and start flights to Nairobi with interline agreements?
KQ has recently reduced frequencies to/from BJM, which provides lounge only to officials - but none to business/frequent travellers.
That being said, some of my bookings (the earliest in March this year) on this route were supposed to be operated by JamboJet but so far I have yet to see the pink zebra tail there/at Kigali...
Fly with Air Burundi, Air Tanzania, Air Uganda, Kenya Airways and Rwandair...Jumuiya ya Afrika mashariki
 
MileHFL400
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Re: Burundi rejects Kenya Airways subsidiary flight rights

Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:28 am

drdisque wrote:
If they care so much they should have just put out a presser saying "since Kenya Airways/Jambojet aren't offering business class to BJM, all Burundi government traffic will now travel via ADD on ET since they offer it".


My thoughts exactly. African politicians place far too much importance on themselves.
Thanks and best Regards
AA
 
oldannyboy
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Re: Burundi rejects Kenya Airways subsidiary flight rights

Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:02 am

MileHFL400 wrote:
drdisque wrote:
If they care so much they should have just put out a presser saying "since Kenya Airways/Jambojet aren't offering business class to BJM, all Burundi government traffic will now travel via ADD on ET since they offer it".


My thoughts exactly. African politicians place far too much importance on themselves.


Exactly.
Instead they are not even worth the attention we are giving them.
 
jcancel
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Re: Burundi rejects Kenya Airways subsidiary flight rights

Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:46 am

oldannyboy wrote:
MileHFL400 wrote:
drdisque wrote:
If they care so much they should have just put out a presser saying "since Kenya Airways/Jambojet aren't offering business class to BJM, all Burundi government traffic will now travel via ADD on ET since they offer it".


My thoughts exactly. African politicians place far too much importance on themselves.


Exactly.
Instead they are not even worth the attention we are giving them.


Due to the overall lack of infrastructure and funding available, historically national governments were the only realistic avenues for making airlines in subsaharan Africa https://books.google.com.sg/books?id=KB ... pg=PA2&dq="their+positions+not+necessarily+based+on+qualifications"&hl=en&sa=X&ei=QlU7T7G3EpKFtgf_nKGCCw&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q="their%20positions%20not%20necessarily%20based%20on%20qualifications"&f=false
 
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eastafspot
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Re: Burundi rejects Kenya Airways subsidiary flight rights

Sat Dec 01, 2018 3:03 pm

MileHFL400 wrote:
According to this article the Burundi rejected Jambojet rights to fly to its capital over lack of premium seats for government bigwigs. Unbelievable, glad to see where their priorities are.


Djibouti and South Sudan flatly declined KQ’s applications for Jambojet Bombardier DHC8-Q400 too:

https://www.theeastafrican.co.ke/busine ... 7Z4Q%24%24
Fly with Air Burundi, Air Tanzania, Air Uganda, Kenya Airways and Rwandair...Jumuiya ya Afrika mashariki
 
berari
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Re: Burundi rejects Kenya Airways subsidiary flight rights

Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:03 pm

Let's be clear about something: this is not about aircraft type, but about availability of services/offerings that JamboJet brings, or in this case, doesn't.

Sebastian Mikosz from Kenya Airways is playing a double standard. Burundi did not want a low cost service airline to serve Bujumbura, yet the story comes out as Burundi disallowing Kenya Airways utilizing a smaller more efficient aircraft to operate. Burundi is fighting off the introduction of low cost services by JamboJet at the expense of full service aircraft by Kenya Airways.

It should be noted that Burundi, Somalia and Djibouti accept ET Q400s that have two class service. Djibouti had resisted at first, but had accepted them after ET reconfigured their aircraft.

The issue is that the low cost service provided by JamboJet is not acceptable to those countries.

In response, Jambojet’s mother company Kenya Airways (KQ) yesterday (Sunday) blocked the booking of flights on the Nairobi-Bujumbura route.


And this, in my opinion, is KQ playing with politics.
 
MileHFL400
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Re: Burundi rejects Kenya Airways subsidiary flight rights

Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:39 pm

berari wrote:
Let's be clear about something: this is not about aircraft type, but about availability of services/offerings that JamboJet brings, or in this case, doesn't.

Sebastian Mikosz from Kenya Airways is playing a double standard. Burundi did not want a low cost service airline to serve Bujumbura, yet the story comes out as Burundi disallowing Kenya Airways utilizing a smaller more efficient aircraft to operate. Burundi is fighting off the introduction of low cost services by JamboJet at the expense of full service aircraft by Kenya Airways.

It should be noted that Burundi, Somalia and Djibouti accept ET Q400s that have two class service. Djibouti had resisted at first, but had accepted them after ET reconfigured their aircraft.

The issue is that the low cost service provided by JamboJet is not acceptable to those countries.

In response, Jambojet’s mother company Kenya Airways (KQ) yesterday (Sunday) blocked the booking of flights on the Nairobi-Bujumbura route.


And this, in my opinion, is KQ playing with politics.


Rubbish. This is about demand and supply of KQ supplying what it feels Burundi can fill versus the fat cat mentality of the Burundian Government.
Thanks and best Regards
AA
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Burundi rejects Kenya Airways subsidiary flight rights

Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:43 pm

MileHFL400 wrote:
berari wrote:
Let's be clear about something: this is not about aircraft type, but about availability of services/offerings that JamboJet brings, or in this case, doesn't.

Sebastian Mikosz from Kenya Airways is playing a double standard. Burundi did not want a low cost service airline to serve Bujumbura, yet the story comes out as Burundi disallowing Kenya Airways utilizing a smaller more efficient aircraft to operate. Burundi is fighting off the introduction of low cost services by JamboJet at the expense of full service aircraft by Kenya Airways.

It should be noted that Burundi, Somalia and Djibouti accept ET Q400s that have two class service. Djibouti had resisted at first, but had accepted them after ET reconfigured their aircraft.

The issue is that the low cost service provided by JamboJet is not acceptable to those countries.

In response, Jambojet’s mother company Kenya Airways (KQ) yesterday (Sunday) blocked the booking of flights on the Nairobi-Bujumbura route.


And this, in my opinion, is KQ playing with politics.


Rubbish. This is about demand and supply of KQ supplying what it feels Burundi can fill versus the fat cat mentality of the Burundian Government.


Just to be clear -- expectation to have two classes of services aboard is "fat cat mentality"?
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MileHFL400
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Re: Burundi rejects Kenya Airways subsidiary flight rights

Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:58 pm

Phosphorus wrote:
MileHFL400 wrote:
berari wrote:
Let's be clear about something: this is not about aircraft type, but about availability of services/offerings that JamboJet brings, or in this case, doesn't.

Sebastian Mikosz from Kenya Airways is playing a double standard. Burundi did not want a low cost service airline to serve Bujumbura, yet the story comes out as Burundi disallowing Kenya Airways utilizing a smaller more efficient aircraft to operate. Burundi is fighting off the introduction of low cost services by JamboJet at the expense of full service aircraft by Kenya Airways.

It should be noted that Burundi, Somalia and Djibouti accept ET Q400s that have two class service. Djibouti had resisted at first, but had accepted them after ET reconfigured their aircraft.

The issue is that the low cost service provided by JamboJet is not acceptable to those countries.



And this, in my opinion, is KQ playing with politics.


Rubbish. This is about demand and supply of KQ supplying what it feels Burundi can fill versus the fat cat mentality of the Burundian Government.


Just to be clear -- expectation to have two classes of services aboard is "fat cat mentality"?


What difference does it make to the government if there are 1 or even 20 classes of service? It’s just the fat cats that want to sit in business and now they are throwing up a fuss as it’s not offered to them. Let them go on any other airline if it’s such a big deal. But don’t prevent KQ from flying a one class aircraft just because you have no where to seat your massive ego
Thanks and best Regards
AA
 
peanuts
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Re: Burundi rejects Kenya Airways subsidiary flight rights

Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:28 pm

This is Neanderthal politics of the first degree.
Be happy with a service. Real demand will determine the outcome...(bigger equipment, other classes of service, etc.).
 
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eastafspot
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Re: Burundi rejects Kenya Airways subsidiary flight rights

Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:51 pm

Most of burundian politics trips are regional (within the East African Community), so it makes sense for them to fly Kenya Airways rather than a useless long detour via ADD. Now for them, half of the trip (BJM-NBO-XXX-NBO-BJM) would be low cost style rather than what they currently get. Which is, in one way, unfair as NBO-BJM is the longest route in the E.A.C.. On the other way, RwandAir fly the Dash 8Q too with a real business class cabin but timing and frequencies not as attractive as KQ.

Personnally, to/from BJM fares are outrasgeously high, (sometimes a mere BJM-NBO rt costs more than a return trip Europe - Burundi... go figure), so if JamboJet will reduce fares and manage to stimulate the demand for air travel there, then why not give them a chance!
Fly with Air Burundi, Air Tanzania, Air Uganda, Kenya Airways and Rwandair...Jumuiya ya Afrika mashariki
 
Lufthansa
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Re: Burundi rejects Kenya Airways subsidiary flight rights

Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:27 pm

oldannyboy wrote:
MileHFL400 wrote:
drdisque wrote:
If they care so much they should have just put out a presser saying "since Kenya Airways/Jambojet aren't offering business class to BJM, all Burundi government traffic will now travel via ADD on ET since they offer it".


My thoughts exactly. African politicians place far too much importance on themselves.


Exactly.
Instead they are not even worth the attention we are giving them.



Tin pot country... you can't believe the politicians there turn down service with a modern fleet when they're basically broke.
For a laugh here's a bit of fun the South Africans had with that attitude a few years back.

https://youtu.be/MYWoGwAad94
 
dirk88
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Re: Burundi rejects Kenya Airways subsidiary flight rights

Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:19 am

For context, there is no country in the world with a lower known GDP per capita than Burundi (212$ per YEAR). The population was found to be the least happy of any country in the world by the World Happiness Report 2018. Foreign aid represents 42% of Burundis national income. Burundi has the severest hunger and malnourishment rates of all 120 countries ranked in the Global Hunger Index.

But those hardships the population has to deal with are futile compared to the inconvience it's leaders face dealing with a lack of business class seating.
 
berari
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Re: Burundi rejects Kenya Airways subsidiary flight rights

Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:33 am

MileHFL400 wrote:
Phosphorus wrote:
MileHFL400 wrote:

Rubbish. This is about demand and supply of KQ supplying what it feels Burundi can fill versus the fat cat mentality of the Burundian Government.


Just to be clear -- expectation to have two classes of services aboard is "fat cat mentality"?


What difference does it make to the government if there are 1 or even 20 classes of service? It’s just the fat cats that want to sit in business and now they are throwing up a fuss as it’s not offered to them. Let them go on any other airline if it’s such a big deal. But don’t prevent KQ from flying a one class aircraft just because you have no where to seat your massive ego


Calm your tits. Maybe they want to prevent the proliferation of low cost airlines and maintain whatever status a J service brings. Let them deny JamboJet from operating. KQ has taken the political stance by closing off reservations and holding Burundians hostage, if you will, by making their trips longer. That'll keep it out of Burundi altogether. So be it.
 
MileHFL400
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Re: Burundi rejects Kenya Airways subsidiary flight rights

Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:50 am

berari wrote:
MileHFL400 wrote:
Phosphorus wrote:

Just to be clear -- expectation to have two classes of services aboard is "fat cat mentality"?


What difference does it make to the government if there are 1 or even 20 classes of service? It’s just the fat cats that want to sit in business and now they are throwing up a fuss as it’s not offered to them. Let them go on any other airline if it’s such a big deal. But don’t prevent KQ from flying a one class aircraft just because you have no where to seat your massive ego


Calm your tits. Maybe they want to prevent the proliferation of low cost airlines and maintain whatever status a J service brings. Let them deny JamboJet from operating. KQ has taken the political stance by closing off reservations and holding Burundians hostage, if you will, by making their trips longer. That'll keep it out of Burundi altogether. So be it.


Status eh? Read Dirk88’s post above
Thanks and best Regards
AA
 
Jetty
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Re: Burundi rejects Kenya Airways subsidiary flight rights

Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:59 am

MileHFL400 wrote:
drdisque wrote:
If they care so much they should have just put out a presser saying "since Kenya Airways/Jambojet aren't offering business class to BJM, all Burundi government traffic will now travel via ADD on ET since they offer it".


My thoughts exactly. African politicians place far too much importance on themselves.

As do a majority of the African voters by voting based on ethnicity for politicians with a bad track-record and/or unrealistic plans.
Last edited by Jetty on Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
DGVT
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Re: Burundi rejects Kenya Airways subsidiary flight rights

Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:00 am

Landlocked failed states like Burundi should be happy about any air connection to the country, mainly due to the economic effects. Apparently that has no importance to the government.
 
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eastafspot
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Re: Burundi rejects Kenya Airways subsidiary flight rights

Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:23 pm

dirk88 wrote:
For context, there is no country in the world with a lower known GDP per capita than Burundi (212$ per YEAR). The population was found to be the least happy of any country in the world by the World Happiness Report 2018. Foreign aid represents 42% of Burundis national income. Burundi has the severest hunger and malnourishment rates of all 120 countries ranked in the Global Hunger Index.

But those hardships the population has to deal with are futile compared to the inconvience it's leaders face dealing with a lack of business class seating.

Meh! There are 180ish countries in the world...
Have you seen the current protests in France???

And level of happiness is changing according to maslow pyramid...

Anyway I'm with Berari on that one, even though my first reaction was initially a bit virulent against Burundi.

There was a report not long ago, will try to look for it but basically, most of foreign donors representatives, ngos and the likes were those who were using most of the seats in the upfront cabins - which can be confirmed by the numerous flights taken out/to from bujumbura.
Most of the so called expert "big cats" were of caucasian type to say the least. Coming with great ideas, leaving the country with a big paycheck while results proved to be meaningless or nowhere satisfactory for local population.

Back to topic, i have an upcoming flight with KQ from BJM very soon - and i like KQ, but if more nations declined JamboJet rights there must be valid reasons.
Fly with Air Burundi, Air Tanzania, Air Uganda, Kenya Airways and Rwandair...Jumuiya ya Afrika mashariki
 
dirk88
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Re: Burundi rejects Kenya Airways subsidiary flight rights

Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:07 pm

eastafspot wrote:
dirk88 wrote:
For context, there is no country in the world with a lower known GDP per capita than Burundi (212$ per YEAR). The population was found to be the least happy of any country in the world by the World Happiness Report 2018. Foreign aid represents 42% of Burundis national income. Burundi has the severest hunger and malnourishment rates of all 120 countries ranked in the Global Hunger Index.

But those hardships the population has to deal with are futile compared to the inconvience it's leaders face dealing with a lack of business class seating.

Meh! There are 180ish countries in the world...
Have you seen the current protests in France???

And level of happiness is changing according to maslow pyramid...

Anyway I'm with Berari on that one, even though my first reaction was initially a bit virulent against Burundi.

There was a report not long ago, will try to look for it but basically, most of foreign donors representatives, ngos and the likes were those who were using most of the seats in the upfront cabins - which can be confirmed by the numerous flights taken out/to from bujumbura.
Most of the so called expert "big cats" were of caucasian type to say the least. Coming with great ideas, leaving the country with a big paycheck while results proved to be meaningless or nowhere satisfactory for local population.


There's 196 countries - but just 120 of them in the hunger index - with Burundi taking the first spot. If you actually study Mashlov you will find that it's difficult to pursue anything before having your basic needs taken care of. Regardless of who's sitting in front - and I immediatly take your point about donor communities, read "Cambodia's Curse" for an example elsewhere in the world - the point is this: the leaders of one of the poorest countries in the world have chosen to ban an airline for reasons of personal gain and pettyness, while lower cost air travel could instead increase trade & ties with other East African nations and fuel economic growth - helping people out of poverty and on their way to climb that pyramid of mashlov you are talking about.

Back to topic, i have an upcoming flight with KQ from BJM very soon - and i like KQ, but if more nations declined JamboJet rights there must be valid reasons.


Not so convinced. As long as airlines are owned by the state, and revenues flow back to those governments, there's little incentive to allow new entrants to compete fairly in an open market. Hence also partly why an African Open Skies is so hard to establish.
 
TWA902fly
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Re: Burundi rejects Kenya Airways subsidiary flight rights

Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:34 pm

To quote the article from the initial post

"I would like to kindly inform you, as I informed your partner Kenya Airways before, that our high State officials travel to the world mainly via Nairobi and need to be treated in business class conditions that are acceptable considering their rank"

On the face of it, they're not even talking about travel to/from Nairobi. If that's the case, they have Brussels Airlines, Rwandair and Ethiopian which provide business class. But as they say "TIA" (This Is Africa), so this has nothing to do about the face of it. I'm surprised there are defenders of this no this site as well - crazy crazy. If you really cared about your country and your people you'd be welcoming businesses such as JamboJet, which can provide affordable airfares to more people in the region, bringing more business and trade to your country.

'902
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