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Boair
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Fly Jamaica 757 RWY excursion

Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:27 am

A Fly Jamaica Boeing 757 suffered a runway excursion early this morning at Cheddi Jagan International Airport:

http://demerarawaves.com/2018/11/09/fly ... e-injured/

Five persons were injured and rushed to hospital.

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Brickell305
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Re: Fly Jamaica 757 RWY excursion

Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:56 am

Wow. Sad to see this occur. I wonder what the cause was. I hope the injuries suffered by those five people are minor. In any respect this is terrible news especially for a fledgling airline like FlyJamaica.
 
BlueberryWheats
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Re: Fly Jamaica 757 RWY excursion

Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:05 am

Crikey. I'd never heard of this airline, so I looked them up. This incident has wiped out half their fleet!
 
phatfarmlines
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Re: Fly Jamaica 757 RWY excursion

Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:24 am

This thread is quickly going to turn into that Skyleasecargo 747F YHZ thread because of the use of "runway excursion" in the title thread.

In all seriousness, will this incident prompt EMAS installed at GEO?
 
asuflyer
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Re: Fly Jamaica 757 RWY excursion

Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:31 am

BW wrecked a 738 at the same place a few years ago. FlyJamaica is an airline created by ex JM pilots. They serve the Jamaican and Guyanese diaspora and do things to cater more to them like serve meals and a free bag.
 
baje427
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Re: Fly Jamaica 757 RWY excursion

Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:48 am

Happy to hear everyone is safe I have to say this is a huge blow for OJ sadly I suspect this is the end of the line for them.
 
jfk777
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Re: Fly Jamaica 757 RWY excursion

Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:49 am

Was the weather bad when this landing took place ?
 
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Richard28
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Re: Fly Jamaica 757 RWY excursion

Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:50 am

 
kaitak
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Re: Fly Jamaica 757 RWY excursion

Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:52 am

It's turned into a pretty bad month for hull losses - three in the space of about a week.
 
B757capt
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Re: Fly Jamaica 757 RWY excursion

Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:18 pm

Dang, that’s an old American Trans Air bird....
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leleko747
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Re: Fly Jamaica 757 RWY excursion

Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:35 pm

Hard times for braking action
I wonder when people will understand:
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LX015
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Re: Fly Jamaica 757 RWY excursion

Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:39 pm

Losing 50% of its fleet? That is devastating for Fly Jamaica. I really hope they can hold on, but I have my doubts.
 
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United_fan
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Re: Fly Jamaica 757 RWY excursion

Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:57 pm

Didn't their 767-300 hit something and was out of service for a while?
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lovebird
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Re: Fly Jamaica 757 RWY excursion

Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:42 pm

Let the massive delays begin for Fly Jamaica.
It took them more than a month to get back on time after one of their aircraft had engine problems.

United_fan wrote:
Didn't their 767-300 hit something and was out of service for a while?


Yes, their 767 was hit by Caribbean Airlines.
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Fly Jamaica 757 RWY excursion

Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:00 pm

B757capt wrote:
Dang, that’s an old American Trans Air bird....

Last SDR entries were about 2 years ago, but she only had around 30,000 hours on her then. A baby as far as 757s go.
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NYPECO
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Re: Fly Jamaica 757 RWY excursion

Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:01 pm

lovebird wrote:
Yes, their 767 was hit by Caribbean Airlines.

That's an unusual but effective way to get rid of competitors.
 
airtrantpa
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Re: Fly Jamaica 757 RWY excursion

Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:08 pm

NYPECO wrote:
lovebird wrote:
Yes, their 767 was hit by Caribbean Airlines.

That's an unusual but effective way to get rid of competitors.



PMSL i needed that so true though.
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Narfish641
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Re: Fly Jamaica 757 RWY excursion

Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:13 pm

Glad everyone is ok and no serious injuries. Looking at the images it looks scary!!
Flew on:
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BWIAirport
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Re: Fly Jamaica 757 RWY excursion

Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:40 pm

It was headed to Toronto but it turned back due to a mechanical issue (not sure what exactly was wrong). So it was landing heavy.
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litz
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Re: Fly Jamaica 757 RWY excursion

Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:59 pm

Richard28 wrote:


That's an odd position for that engine; like it was rotating around the front bolt or something ... (shrug)

at any rate, the wing damage, from what can be seen, looks minimal; it's all behind the fence line.

So it's going to boil down to what kind of hull/wing damage, and some better daylight pictures.

Is this leased or owned?
 
aviationjunky
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Re: Fly Jamaica 757 RWY excursion

Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:03 pm

Did a quick search, and it looks like they are the only Jamaican airline that has jets. The other two carriers use turbo-props. Do we know if their aircraft are leased or owned? Surely their insurance will kick in for a new(er) aircraft, it's just a waiting game until then.
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1989worstyear
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Re: Fly Jamaica 757 RWY excursion

Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:20 pm

Is it just me, or does the 757 seem to have a lot of hydraulic issues, especially compared to an actual modern design like an A320 or 737NG?
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Spacepope
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Re: Fly Jamaica 757 RWY excursion

Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:43 pm

litz wrote:
Richard28 wrote:


That's an odd position for that engine; like it was rotating around the front bolt or something ... (shrug)

at any rate, the wing damage, from what can be seen, looks minimal; it's all behind the fence line.

So it's going to boil down to what kind of hull/wing damage, and some better daylight pictures.

Is this leased or owned?


Looks like the right main gear departed company with the airframe. Daylight pics from another site shows a hole in the top of the wing above where the main gear strut used to be attached. Stick a fork in her.
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stlgph
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Re: Fly Jamaica 757 RWY excursion

Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:46 pm

Half the fleet - damn, will be interesting to see how they survive, if they survive.

And if they do, will be interesting to see how the magic unfolds as the 757 let them be pushed off into the corner Gate 1 at T1 at JFK since there arent too many open gate spaces for a larger frame when they come and go.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
rubberdogdo
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Re: Fly Jamaica 757 RWY excursion

Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:51 pm

Considering the amount of fuel on board , one wonders the haste in conducting an emergency return if it was only one hydraulic system failure - if it was a dual system failure , no question about the return , just the completion of all QRH items to ensure what has happened , didn't . If it was a total (3) hydraulic system failure , then they're heroes. In other words , if it was 1 system out - Chief Pilot will be angry and the crew could possibly be dismissed , 2 systems out - good job but many questions about decision making , skill set and ability. 3 systems out - heroes. The investigation should be fairly straightforward - FDR and CVR will tell loads.
 
BobbyPSP
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Re: Fly Jamaica 757 RWY excursion

Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:22 pm

1989worstyear wrote:
Is it just me, or does the 757 seem to have a lot of hydraulic issues, especially compared to an actual modern design like an A320 or 737NG?


Here we go again
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Fly Jamaica 757 RWY excursion

Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:33 pm

rubberdogdo wrote:
Considering the amount of fuel on board , one wonders the haste in conducting an emergency return if it was only one hydraulic system failure - if it was a dual system failure , no question about the return , just the completion of all QRH items to ensure what has happened , didn't . If it was a total (3) hydraulic system failure , then they're heroes. In other words , if it was 1 system out - Chief Pilot will be angry and the crew could possibly be dismissed , 2 systems out - good job but many questions about decision making , skill set and ability. 3 systems out - heroes. The investigation should be fairly straightforward - FDR and CVR will tell loads.


With all due respect, I'm guessing you don't know what you are talking about. First of all, the airplane would be uncontrollable with all three Hydraulic systems out.

If two Hydraulic Systems failed, why do you think there are questions about decision making? IIRC, the QRH says to land at the nearest suitable airport, which is what they did.

In fact, if one failed, why do you believe the crew should be dismissed? Do you think they should have continued to Toronto?
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Fly Jamaica 757 RWY excursion

Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:07 pm

stlgph wrote:
Half the fleet - damn, will be interesting to see how they survive, if they survive.

And if they do, will be interesting to see how the magic unfolds as the 757 let them be pushed off into the corner Gate 1 at T1 at JFK since there arent too many open gate spaces for a larger frame when they come and go.


The gate that can fit a small plane can fit a plane as large as a Boeing 767-300ER...OS uses that gate when they operate a 767 from VIE to JFK. The question now is from whom will OJ source a frame (the 767 they fly is owned by OJ).
 
jmdc861
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Re: Fly Jamaica 757 RWY excursion

Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:23 pm

The Irony is that "Fly Jamaica" is not legally a Jamaican carrier but a "Guyanese" one. Complicated situation but they have been struggling since their inception and never lived up to the iconic reputation that was "Air Jamaica."
 
aeropix
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Re: Fly Jamaica 757 RWY excursion

Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:36 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
, why do you think there are questions about decision making? IIRC, the QRH says to land at the nearest suitable airport, which is what they did.

In fact, if one failed, why do you believe the crew should be dismissed? Do you think they should have continued to Toronto?


Well, the keyword is “suitable”. You would have to question how the crew determined the “suitability” of the chosen diversion point WRT runway length and stopping distance while landing at a heavy weight with either degraded brakes, high speed landing, degraded flight controls, or a combination of all 3.

OTOH if only one system failed, you would have to question the judgment both economically and aeronautically of NOT at least considering continue to destination depending on the system lost.
 
rubberdogdo
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Re: Fly Jamaica 757 RWY excursion

Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:40 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
rubberdogdo wrote:
Considering the amount of fuel on board , one wonders the haste in conducting an emergency return if it was only one hydraulic system failure - if it was a dual system failure , no question about the return , just the completion of all QRH items to ensure what has happened , didn't . If it was a total (3) hydraulic system failure , then they're heroes. In other words , if it was 1 system out - Chief Pilot will be angry and the crew could possibly be dismissed , 2 systems out - good job but many questions about decision making , skill set and ability. 3 systems out - heroes. The investigation should be fairly straightforward - FDR and CVR will tell loads.


With all due respect, I'm guessing you don't know what you are talking about. First of all, the airplane would be uncontrollable with all three Hydraulic systems out.

If two Hydraulic Systems failed, why do you think there are questions about decision making? IIRC, the QRH says to land at the nearest suitable airport, which is what they did.

In fact, if one failed, why do you believe the crew should be dismissed? Do you think they should have continued to Toronto?


UAL 282 and DHL OO-DLL were both uncontrollable as well but each made it to a runway , sort of - hence the hero comment. With 2 systems out , nearest SUITABLE probably meant a more longer , suitable runway , as they did in fact over run. Hence the question about decision making. With one system out , there is no reason not to continue to Toronto. Oh , and by the way , I do know what I'm talking about Boeing ( wise ) guy.
 
stlgph
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Re: Fly Jamaica 757 RWY excursion

Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:50 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
stlgph wrote:
Half the fleet - damn, will be interesting to see how they survive, if they survive.

And if they do, will be interesting to see how the magic unfolds as the 757 let them be pushed off into the corner Gate 1 at T1 at JFK since there arent too many open gate spaces for a larger frame when they come and go.


The gate that can fit a small plane can fit a plane as large as a Boeing 767-300ER...OS uses that gate when they operate a 767 from VIE to JFK. The question now is from whom will OJ source a frame (the 767 they fly is owned by OJ).


Yes, good point, they *DO* have the 767 left in the fleet but I don't think I've ever seen it come through JFK. Could it be too much plane for the scope of their operations? Of course I could be wrong and it could have come through - anything is possible.

Of course, desperate times call for desperate measures and there probably are some leasing companies out there who would love the business.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Fly Jamaica 757 RWY excursion

Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:05 pm

rubberdogdo wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
rubberdogdo wrote:
Considering the amount of fuel on board , one wonders the haste in conducting an emergency return if it was only one hydraulic system failure - if it was a dual system failure , no question about the return , just the completion of all QRH items to ensure what has happened , didn't . If it was a total (3) hydraulic system failure , then they're heroes. In other words , if it was 1 system out - Chief Pilot will be angry and the crew could possibly be dismissed , 2 systems out - good job but many questions about decision making , skill set and ability. 3 systems out - heroes. The investigation should be fairly straightforward - FDR and CVR will tell loads.


With all due respect, I'm guessing you don't know what you are talking about. First of all, the airplane would be uncontrollable with all three Hydraulic systems out.

If two Hydraulic Systems failed, why do you think there are questions about decision making? IIRC, the QRH says to land at the nearest suitable airport, which is what they did.

In fact, if one failed, why do you believe the crew should be dismissed? Do you think they should have continued to Toronto?


UAL 282 and DHL OO-DLL were both uncontrollable as well but each made it to a runway , sort of - hence the hero comment. With 2 systems out , nearest SUITABLE probably meant a more longer , suitable runway , as they did in fact over run. Hence the question about decision making. With one system out , there is no reason not to continue to Toronto. Oh , and by the way , I do know what I'm talking about Boeing ( wise ) guy.


I disagree (wise) guy. You've had one Hydraulic System fail. You don't necessarily know what caused it. Is it contaminated hydraulic fluid, thus with the possibility of other systems failing also?

You are telling me that it's a smart move to fly on 2800 miles to your destination when a Hydraulic System failed at the beginning of your flight?

BTW, I looked at the 757 QRH. There are a fair amount of INOP or degraded systems when a Hydraulic System is INOP.

The longer runway at GEO is 11,000 feet. Why is that not "suitable"?
 
BlueberryWheats
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Re: Fly Jamaica 757 RWY excursion

Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:06 pm

1989worstyear wrote:
Is it just me, or does the 757 seem to have a lot of hydraulic issues, especially compared to an actual modern design like an A320 or 737NG?


It's just you.
 
lovebird
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Re: Fly Jamaica 757 RWY excursion

Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:02 pm

stlgph wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
stlgph wrote:
Half the fleet - damn, will be interesting to see how they survive, if they survive.

And if they do, will be interesting to see how the magic unfolds as the 757 let them be pushed off into the corner Gate 1 at T1 at JFK since there arent too many open gate spaces for a larger frame when they come and go.


The gate that can fit a small plane can fit a plane as large as a Boeing 767-300ER...OS uses that gate when they operate a 767 from VIE to JFK. The question now is from whom will OJ source a frame (the 767 they fly is owned by OJ).


Yes, good point, they *DO* have the 767 left in the fleet but I don't think I've ever seen it come through JFK. Could it be too much plane for the scope of their operations? Of course I could be wrong and it could have come through - anything is possible.

Of course, desperate times call for desperate measures and there probably are some leasing companies out there who would love the business.


They operate BOTH the 767 and (previously) 757 to ALL their destinations. They alternate it, normally if one plane is flying the other plane is on the ground sitting idle.
Normally during high-demand seasons, or previously when one of their planes was unflyable for some time (I believe it was the 757 that had an engine issue), they lease a 757 from National Airlines.

However, the 767 is in Mexico for a C Check. Not sure how long till it'll be flying again. So they are fleet less ATM.
 
PA12
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Re: Fly Jamaica 757 RWY excursion

Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:03 pm

The long runway is about 7500 ft, not 11000 like wikipedia says. It says 2250 meters, which is about 7500 ft.
 
Zidane
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Re: Fly Jamaica 757 RWY excursion

Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:14 pm

Could she be repaired?
If so, is it worth it?
 
rubberdogdo
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Re: Fly Jamaica 757 RWY excursion

Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:17 pm

Besides a few inoperable items , a single system failure is no drama except that it precludes autoland ability. As long as destination is above Cat 1 , truck on. The Captain is paid , trained and empowered to make both safety ( obvious priority #1 ) and commercial decisions , and I am saying there is nothing to preclude continuing to destination unless there are other mitigating circumstances to cause the crew to act otherwise. In this instance , the aircraft ended up in the weeds. Probably unnecessarily. I refer again to my previous statements.
 
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spinkid
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Re: Fly Jamaica 757 RWY excursion

Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:30 pm

Zidane wrote:
Could she be repaired?
If so, is it worth it?


Doubtful. I can't possibly see it being viable to repair this bird vs the cost of scrapping it.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Fly Jamaica 757 RWY excursion

Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:34 pm

rubberdogdo wrote:
Besides a few inoperable items , a single system failure is no drama except that it precludes autoland ability. As long as destination is above Cat 1 , truck on. The Captain is paid , trained and empowered to make both safety ( obvious priority #1 ) and commercial decisions , and I am saying there is nothing to preclude continuing to destination unless there are other mitigating circumstances to cause the crew to act otherwise. In this instance , the aircraft ended up in the weeds. Probably unnecessarily. I refer again to my previous statements.


I’m talking to some system experts and pilots who don’t think that I a great idea to truck on with a Hydraulic System failure that early in the flight. The LOT 767 accident was one example.

In any event, we have no business criticizing the Captain’s judgement here. Yeah he was in the weeds. We don’t know what was going on. What if he trucked on and ended up in the ocean. Then you’d be posting that he used poor judgment by trucking on.

Let the experts determine if he did the right thing.

It’s like continuing flight a long way after losing on engine on a 747. Can you legally do it? Sure. Is it advisable? That more questionable.
 
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Flyingdevil737
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Re: Fly Jamaica 757 RWY excursion

Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:36 pm

Is it a write off?.....
The thunder from Down Under
 
nine4nine
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Re: Fly Jamaica 757 RWY excursion

Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:05 pm

Flyingdevil737 wrote:
Is it a write off?.....



I’d say so. Engines, mains, and wings are shot. The repair would most likely far exceed the value of the aircraft.
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Flyingdevil737
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Re: Fly Jamaica 757 RWY excursion

Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:59 am

nine4nine wrote:
Flyingdevil737 wrote:
Is it a write off?.....



I’d say so. Engines, mains, and wings are shot. The repair would most likely far exceed the value of the aircraft.


Btw- what a crap livery, deff not a nice colorful representation of Jamaica or Caribbean for that matter. Looks like a livery from a stock aircraft on Microsoft Flight Sim 95’.


I would have to agree with you about the livery.....
The thunder from Down Under
 
ClipperMonsoon
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Re: Fly Jamaica 757 RWY excursion

Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:09 am

BoeingGuy

I’m talking to some system experts and pilots who don’t think that I a great idea to truck on with a Hydraulic System failure that early in the flight. The LOT 767 accident was one [/quote]

Uh, you do realize that the circuit breaker was pulled, there by preventing the landing gear from extending, after the aircraft was jacked up, the circuit breaker was reset and the gear extended normally, its actually pretty well known fact, yeah they did have a hydraulic failure, but its not the reason the gear didnt extend.
"Never mistake persistence for intelligence"
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teneriffe77
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Re: Fly Jamaica 757 RWY excursion

Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:29 am

I met one of their crews in Toronto on the van going to my hotel who had just flown one of their planes up a few hours before that. They seemed pretty nice and they told me there flights only operated 2x a week. If this plane is a write off they could probably yank one out of the desert as many have been withdrawn by AA, Dl etc
 
rbavfan
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Re: Fly Jamaica 757 RWY excursion

Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:09 am

baje427 wrote:
Happy to hear everyone is safe I have to say this is a huge blow for OJ sadly I suspect this is the end of the line for them.


1 crash does not mean it's the end for them. They have been fling from 2013 so that statement is rather short sighted from you.
 
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HoboJoe
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Re: Fly Jamaica 757 RWY excursion

Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:12 am

757 can stop on a dime - bad piloting
 
rbavfan
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Re: Fly Jamaica 757 RWY excursion

Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:17 am

litz wrote:
Richard28 wrote:


That's an odd position for that engine; like it was rotating around the front bolt or something ... (shrug)

at any rate, the wing damage, from what can be seen, looks minimal; it's all behind the fence line.

So it's going to boil down to what kind of hull/wing damage, and some better daylight pictures.

Is this leased or owned?


The one pick looks like the starboard wing is torn at rear next to fuselage. That does not look minimal. Just like SkyCargo's 747 looks like it broke it's back.
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: Fly Jamaica 757 RWY excursion

Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:52 am

Another one bites the dust!
 
lovebird
Posts: 19
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Re: Fly Jamaica 757 RWY excursion

Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:15 am

rbavfan wrote:
baje427 wrote:
Happy to hear everyone is safe I have to say this is a huge blow for OJ sadly I suspect this is the end of the line for them.


1 crash does not mean it's the end for them. They have been fling from 2013 so that statement is rather short sighted from you.


It can signify more difficult times. From an insider a year ago told me, they were low on available cash when they had issues and had to keep leasing planes.

Currently, they have 0 active planes flying as their other plane (the 767) is currently undergoing a C check. I wish them a very fast recovery.

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