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BN727227Ultra
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AA MadDog rumor du jour:

Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:29 pm

Take this with a block of salt, since it's 10 months out...

Per posts on a DFW spotter Facebook group, some destinations, CMH STL TUL mentioned most frequently, will lose their S80s over the Labor Day weekend 2019.

Of course, since it's rampers and foamers doing the mentioning, read into it what you will. A holiday weekend would be a good time to retire them all, since there'd be less than 25 by then.

YMMV.
 
Lpbri
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Re: AA MadDog rumor du jour:

Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:39 pm

All MD-80s should be retired by then.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: AA MadDog rumor du jour:

Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:58 pm

I hope they will do something nice for the retirement. Something like ORD-STL-DFW for the last flights. Hopefully Delta will do the same with something such as DFW-CVG-ATL since that's where their MD-88's spent most of their days.
 
Lpbri
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Re: AA MadDog rumor du jour:

Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:00 pm

I am guessing the last segment will be ORD-TUL-DFW, then DFW-ROW
 
WN732
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Re: AA MadDog rumor du jour:

Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:22 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
I hope they will do something nice for the retirement. Something like ORD-STL-DFW for the last flights. Hopefully Delta will do the same with something such as DFW-CVG-ATL since that's where their MD-88's spent most of their days.


I would hope they'll bring them out to the west coast like G4 is doing. They'll be flying FAT-LAS on the 28th of this month and thats a wrap for G4s MD-80's
 
ckfred
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Re: AA MadDog rumor du jour:

Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:03 am

From ORD, the MD-80 flew just about every domestic route, if you go back to the 1980s. My father was flying ORD-CAK in the late 1980s, and it seemed that every AA flight was with an MD-80.

From my trips out of ORD, I flew on MD-80s to SEA, PHX, YYC, LAS, DFW, IAH, STL, ATL, MCO, TPA, LGA, and BOS. Our son first flight was on an AA MD-80, SEA-ORD.

In the mid and late 1990s, ORD was pretty much a T-tail haven with the MD-80, the F100, and a 727 or two in every departure bank.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: AA MadDog rumor du jour:

Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:14 am

BN727227Ultra wrote:
Take this with a block of salt, since it's 10 months out...

Per posts on a DFW spotter Facebook group, some destinations, CMH STL TUL mentioned most frequently, will lose their S80s over the Labor Day weekend 2019.


There is a pretty big cutback in system capacity from summer flying to kids-in-school in autumn. Immediately post-Labor Day makes sense to park a bunch and terminate the sub-fleet.
 
JFKCMILAXFLL
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Re: AA MadDog rumor du jour:

Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:31 pm

ckfred wrote:
From ORD, the MD-80 flew just about every domestic route, if you go back to the 1980s. My father was flying ORD-CAK in the late 1980s, and it seemed that every AA flight was with an MD-80.

From my trips out of ORD, I flew on MD-80s to SEA, PHX, YYC, LAS, DFW, IAH, STL, ATL, MCO, TPA, LGA, and BOS. Our son first flight was on an AA MD-80, SEA-ORD.

In the mid and late 1990s, ORD was pretty much a T-tail haven with the MD-80, the F100, and a 727 or two in every departure bank.


Indeed. I flew LAX-ORD on an AA MD-82 in July 1995. As I disembarked, I saw a sea of other MD-80s at the other gates. Maybe saw one or two other types. Ironically, my return flight to LAX was on a DC-10.
I'm guessing the plethora of MadDogs at ORD was because, it could reach just about every destination in the continental US from ORD.
 
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American 767
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Re: AA MadDog rumor du jour:

Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:34 pm

Lpbri wrote:
I am guessing the last segment will be ORD-TUL-DFW, then DFW-ROW


TUL-DFW maybe, but not ORD-TUL because out of ORD the MD-80s fly now to only these three destinations: STL, RDU and MSP. There might still be one DFW-ORD segment on the MD-80, on Saturdays only, then going to STL and then back to DFW but that's just a rumor. It hasn't been officially announced. That would ba a triangle trip leaving from DFW; DFW-ORD-STL-DFW. Other than that, all remaining MD-80 flights starting early 2019 will either leave or arrive DFW.

Final flights for end of 2019 might as well be OKC-DFW, STL-DFW, or ELP-DFW. And then of course DFW-ROS but that's only a ferry flight to final retirement place. I'm talking about segments where one can buy a ticket.
Ben Soriano
 
dbo861
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Re: AA MadDog rumor du jour:

Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:56 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
BN727227Ultra wrote:
Take this with a block of salt, since it's 10 months out...

Per posts on a DFW spotter Facebook group, some destinations, CMH STL TUL mentioned most frequently, will lose their S80s over the Labor Day weekend 2019.


There is a pretty big cutback in system capacity from summer flying to kids-in-school in autumn. Immediately post-Labor Day makes sense to park a bunch and terminate the sub-fleet.


It looks like DSM-DFW switches to A319 after Labor Day weekend.
 
ScottB
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Re: AA MadDog rumor du jour:

Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:38 pm

American 767 wrote:
Lpbri wrote:
I am guessing the last segment will be ORD-TUL-DFW, then DFW-ROW


TUL-DFW maybe, but not ORD-TUL because out of ORD the MD-80s fly now to only these three destinations: STL, RDU and MSP.


I wouldn't discount the chances of the last day of MD-80 operations seeing a farewell tour which hits most or all of the hubs as well as possibly TUL in a nod to the maintenance base. It'd be nice if they did a one-off trip to LGB to acknowledge where they were all built.
 
ltbewr
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Re: AA MadDog rumor du jour:

Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:46 pm

And I bet those Mad Dogs are more reliable and will have more hours/cycles than any A320, B737's they are replaced by will ever have.
 
AWACSooner
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Re: AA MadDog rumor du jour:

Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:16 pm

OKC is donezo with the MD's before the end of June...just looked now and my original final leg of YYZ-DFW-OKC on 30 June was supposed to be a MD, now it's a 319...looked at AA's website and all flights that day from OKC to DFW are 319's, 738's, or E75's.
 
FlyingLaw1
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Re: AA MadDog rumor du jour:

Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:31 pm

I know a lot of people hate the Mad Dogs.... but I'm really going to miss them when they are gone. Really an end of an era for me as they were one of my favorites growing up (and still are). The look and the sound are just great to me. When you fly in them they just feel like huge hunks of flying metal-- so sturdy. I also like the two-seat side and the F seats are super comfy. Also always easy to snag an upgrade on them (unless its ORD-DFW-ORD!).

I'll have to make sure I get a trip on one before they are gone! Maybe I'll try for the farewell flight if they have one...
 
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4engines4lnghll
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Re: AA MadDog rumor du jour:

Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:37 pm

ltbewr wrote:
And I bet those Mad Dogs are more reliable and will have more hours/cycles than any A320, B737's they are replaced by will ever have.


The super 80s always have matinence issues. It’ll be bitter sweet. Only times I enjoyed that plane was when I was able to sit in the first 15-20 rows. You can’t even hear yourself think seated in the back.
4engines4lnghll
 
maps4ltd
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Re: AA MadDog rumor du jour:

Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:45 pm

BN727227Ultra wrote:
Take this with a block of salt, since it's 10 months out...

Per posts on a DFW spotter Facebook group, some destinations, CMH STL TUL mentioned most frequently, will lose their S80s over the Labor Day weekend 2019.

Of course, since it's rampers and foamers doing the mentioning, read into it what you will. A holiday weekend would be a good time to retire them all, since there'd be less than 25 by then.

YMMV.


Interesting. I'm scheduled to fly STL-DFW-JAC and back in July 2019, with both STL-DFW legs on the MD-80. I am a bit skeptical, and assume they are just placeholders.
 
osupoke07
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Re: AA MadDog rumor du jour:

Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:50 pm

TUL surely will get a final flight of some kind. There is a AA MD-80 at the air and space museum there. Thankfully booked on an MD-80 for Thanksgiving this year. Will likely be my last chance to fly the type.
MD82, MD83, MD88, B717, B732, B733, B735, B737, B738, B739, B752, B763, B77W, CR2, CR7, CR9, A320
 
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lightsaber
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Re: AA MadDog rumor du jour:

Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:28 pm

4engines4lnghll wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
And I bet those Mad Dogs are more reliable and will have more hours/cycles than any A320, B737's they are replaced by will ever have.


The super 80s always have matinence issues. It’ll be bitter sweet. Only times I enjoyed that plane was when I was able to sit in the first 15-20 rows. You can’t even hear yourself think seated in the back.

The Maddogs are hunt for a problem after an issue is already there. Airbus has been upgrading the CEO predictive maintenance and the NEO is at another level. The MD-80 is already more expensive to maintain and the 737 has the record for this class dispatch reliability v(a crown I believe will soon go to the NEO).

Cycles? Yes. Maddogs have a limit of validity of 110,000 FC and have been pushed close to 100k (if anyone knows of one going past 100k, please let me know). This is more than the 737 100k FC or Airbus 60k FC.

In other threads we have had discussions on 737s going through the 85,000 FC bulkhead repair. Since the 737 and A320 are both certified for more hours, (125k and 120k vs. 110k), I fully expect that to be lost. In fact, LH has an A320 past 110k FH, or past the LOV of the MD-80, so hours is already lost.

The 738 already burns less fuel, takes less maintenance than the MD-80. The MAX just saves too much money. The same can be said about the CEO and NEO.

The MD-80 engine part supply chain is mostly shut down. Scavenged parts are less reliable than new just because everything is now run with old parts and there is no diagnosis capability in the MD-80. Not much anyway.

While a great aircraft, they are past their economic life. There are only 30 at AA. DL is down to at most 89 (I use airfleets production summary which has as much as a 2 week time lag, but is free). Allegiant is down to 19 and ceases scheduled flying (but will use for backup) at the end of the month.

Rumor is AA is trying to buy cheap used A319s to replace the Maddogs. Have they? With the MAX and NEO out, CEOs are trading at a discount, at least the A319.

Lightsaber
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Spacepope
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Re: AA MadDog rumor du jour:

Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:47 pm

lightsaber wrote:

Rumor is AA is trying to buy cheap used A319s to replace the Maddogs. Have they? With the MAX and NEO out, CEOs are trading at a discount, at least the A319.

Lightsaber

IIRC the first ex-Frontier A319 has been delivered to them at GYR for refit.
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Lpbri
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Re: AA MadDog rumor du jour:

Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:47 pm

One thing going against the MD80 that has not been mentioned: NOISE. 8 used 319s have been aquired.
 
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BN727227Ultra
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Re: AA MadDog rumor du jour:

Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:59 pm

I picked a day in mid-September, OMA goes to 3 319s, 1 738 and no RJ, compared to 6 (4 mainline, 2 RJ) flights now.
 
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T18
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Re: AA MadDog rumor du jour:

Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:58 pm

Well given that last I heard the STL MD base already closed, I'd be surprised if the Maddog keeps gracing our skies here even that long. Worst part of the AA MDs going away for me is that they have the old and imo better livery.
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Miamiairport
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Re: AA MadDog rumor du jour:

Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:53 pm

Labor Day weekend next year sounds about right. Probably no big final tour like what happened with the 747 at DL & UA.
 
flightsimer
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Re: AA MadDog rumor du jour:

Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:31 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
I hope they will do something nice for the retirement. Something like ORD-STL-DFW for the last flights. Hopefully Delta will do the same with something such as DFW-CVG-ATL since that's where their MD-88's spent most of their days.

Highly doubt they will do STL. American does not seem to appreciate any of their heritage. When they did the USAIR retirement flight on the last day of the USAIR operation, they purposely didn't come into PiT because it wasn't a "current hub" even though USAIR would never have the airline it grew into without pit.
Commercial / Airline Pilot
 
Dalmd88
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Re: AA MadDog rumor du jour:

Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:29 am

flightsimer wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
I hope they will do something nice for the retirement. Something like ORD-STL-DFW for the last flights. Hopefully Delta will do the same with something such as DFW-CVG-ATL since that's where their MD-88's spent most of their days.

Highly doubt they will do STL. American does not seem to appreciate any of their heritage. When they did the USAIR retirement flight on the last day of the USAIR operation, they purposely didn't come into PiT because it wasn't a "current hub" even though USAIR would never have the airline it grew into without pit.

Wasn't a current hub. This statement sums up my reason to call AA the Evil Empire. I'm shocked they have kept the heritage livery. Just saw the Allegheny plane taxi out of ATL this week. Growing up in Upstate NY that was our airline.
 
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September11
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Re: AA MadDog rumor du jour:

Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:34 am

My longest flight on AA M80: ORD-SFO / SFO-ORD

I doubt all of remaining AA M80s will be retired before 2019

I expect at least 10 AA M80s to remain in service until 2020
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AWACSooner
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Re: AA MadDog rumor du jour:

Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:35 am

September11 wrote:
My longest flight on AA M80: ORD-SFO / SFO-ORD

I doubt all of remaining AA M80s will be retired before 2019

I expect at least 10 AA M80s to remain in service until 2020

DFW-SEA was my longest.

And considering OKC was supposed to be one of the last M80 ops from DFW, and we lost it by mid next year, I think final retirement might come sooner than you think.
 
ctrabs0114
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Re: AA MadDog rumor du jour:

Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:12 am

flightsimer wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
I hope they will do something nice for the retirement. Something like ORD-STL-DFW for the last flights. Hopefully Delta will do the same with something such as DFW-CVG-ATL since that's where their MD-88's spent most of their days.

Highly doubt they will do STL. American does not seem to appreciate any of their heritage. When they did the USAIR retirement flight on the last day of the USAIR operation, they purposely didn't come into PiT because it wasn't a "current hub" even though USAIR would never have the airline it grew into without pit.


Probably one of the many reasons AA has fallen out of favor in PIT...
2018: BWI, PIT, MDW, MCI, STL, DAL, ATL, BNA
 
catdaddy63
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Re: AA MadDog rumor du jour:

Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:41 pm

The last scheduled MD80 flight out of TUL is currently AA2269 at 1825L TUL-DFW on September 3rd. Both MD80 turns will switch to A319 on September 4th, 2019.
 
Boof02671
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Re: AA MadDog rumor du jour:

Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:41 pm

They have to be retired. A major AD us due and AA won’t be spending the money to do it.
 
estorilm
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Re: AA MadDog rumor du jour:

Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:54 pm

ltbewr wrote:
And I bet those Mad Dogs are more reliable and will have more hours/cycles than any A320, B737's they are replaced by will ever have.

Sure...
I was just on an immaculate AA A319 the other day - was shocked to discover it was the second new gen they ever bought in late 90s. Had almost 31k cycles and 53k total hours on it.

Comfortable, quiet, good economy - I would have never had any idea it wasn't 10 years newer. From the moment you step into a Mad Dog (and certainly the moment power is applied) you KNOW you're in an old aircraft.


Ehh I know the thing has a cult following - but I never got it. Losing something like an L-1011 or 747 was to lose a clear piece of commercial aviation history from the "golden age" of jet travel. I absolutely don't have that feeling about the mad dog retirement. Not sure why - but I just don't.
 
ual763
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Re: AA MadDog rumor du jour:

Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:40 pm

catdaddy63 wrote:
The last scheduled MD80 flight out of TUL is currently AA2269 at 1825L TUL-DFW on September 3rd. Both MD80 turns will switch to A319 on September 4th, 2019.


Out of curiosity, has anyone found the last loaded MD-80 flight yet?
From flying to the NOTAM office
 
dbo861
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Re: AA MadDog rumor du jour:

Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:46 pm

ual763 wrote:
catdaddy63 wrote:
The last scheduled MD80 flight out of TUL is currently AA2269 at 1825L TUL-DFW on September 3rd. Both MD80 turns will switch to A319 on September 4th, 2019.


Out of curiosity, has anyone found the last loaded MD-80 flight yet?


Is their summer schedule finalized yet?
 
Austin787
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Re: AA MadDog rumor du jour:

Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:07 pm

dbo861 wrote:
ual763 wrote:
catdaddy63 wrote:
The last scheduled MD80 flight out of TUL is currently AA2269 at 1825L TUL-DFW on September 3rd. Both MD80 turns will switch to A319 on September 4th, 2019.


Out of curiosity, has anyone found the last loaded MD-80 flight yet?


Is their summer schedule finalized yet?

Schedules more than 3 months out are subject to change. We probably won't know the last MD80 flight until next spring or early next summer, depending on when AA decides to retire the remaining MD80s.
 
Chuska
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Re: AA MadDog rumor du jour:

Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:21 pm

AA has been doing a mass retirement of MD-80's on the 3rd or 4th Tuesday of August for the past few years, slightly ahead of Labor Day. My guess is the last bunch will head to ROW on either Aug 20 or Aug 27, 2019. Eagle typically adds an extra flight to DFW on that day for all the crew members to return. As for the schedule, looks like its only finalized through Feb 14 at this point.
 
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BN727227Ultra
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Re: AA MadDog rumor du jour:

Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:35 pm

estorilm wrote:
Ehh I know the thing has a cult following - but I never got it. Losing something like an L-1011 or 747 was to lose a clear piece of commercial aviation history from the "golden age" of jet travel. I absolutely don't have that feeling about the mad dog retirement. Not sure why - but I just don't.


AA owned 1 out of 3 MD-80 produced, so for me at least, it wasn't an airframe cult but an AA one. Getting even more granular, it was a Dallas cult for me. Every AA MadDog flight I've taken either took off from or landed at DFW ( I know, not unique but I love Texas...)
 
777PHX
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Re: AA MadDog rumor du jour:

Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:41 pm

I'll only miss the MD80s because of their layouts. First class had big comfortable seats and there was plenty of room in coach. Not like these newly reconfigured 737s and A32xs AA has.

As far as the airframe itself, meh, won't miss it. I've flown on it enough that I won't be nostalgic for it.
 
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Runway28L
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Re: AA MadDog rumor du jour:

Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:11 pm

I would expect a higher influx of L-US A319s coming to DFW within the next few months. Seems like they have been replacing the lower-end capacity of the MD-80 whereas the L-AA B738s have been covering the higher end.
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FSDan
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Re: AA MadDog rumor du jour:

Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:33 pm

Runway28L wrote:
I would expect a higher influx of L-US A319s coming to DFW within the next few months. Seems like they have been replacing the lower-end capacity of the MD-80 whereas the L-AA B738s have been covering the higher end.


Those plus an influx of CR9s and E75s with higher frequency on some routes (look at DFW-ABQ or DFW-ELP).
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Miamiairport
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Re: AA MadDog rumor du jour:

Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:41 pm

With fuel rising over the past year I don’t see the MD80 making it past 2019. I will miss the comfy F seats. Great for a short nap after a couple of drinks.
 
PA12
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Re: AA MadDog rumor du jour:

Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:38 am

I’ve noticed that AA reinstated an MD80 flight to MFE , which had gone to all RJ a couple of months ago.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: AA MadDog rumor du jour:

Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:03 am

Do we know when these 30 MD-80s last when through a c-check? At some point I expect AA to stop performing C-checks and instead retire MD-80s, or have we already reached that point? That decision sets an approximately 2 year clock start. Did it already happen?
You only have the first amendment with the 2nd. If you're not going to offend someone with what you say, you don't have the 1st.
 
TripleA
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Re: AA MadDog rumor du jour:

Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:11 am

Speaking of AA MD80s, on October 26 N434AA was flown from MIA to CCS and then flown back to MIA on November 6. Anyone know what that might have been about?
 
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exFWAOONW
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Re: AA MadDog rumor du jour:

Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:53 am

Lpbri wrote:
One thing going against the MD80 that has not been mentioned: NOISE. 8 used 319s have been aquired.
:hissyfit: you people don't know what noise is. Try 707s or DC8s with straight turbo-jets at full throttle. That is NOISE. :cloudnine:
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DeltaMD95
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Re: AA MadDog rumor du jour:

Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:40 am

estorilm wrote:
Ehh I know the thing has a cult following - but I never got it. Losing something like an L-1011 or 747 was to lose a clear piece of commercial aviation history from the "golden age" of jet travel. I absolutely don't have that feeling about the mad dog retirement. Not sure why - but I just don't.


It’s about personality. As you said, some people just don’t get it. Some people prefer McDonalds and Olive Garden. But suit yourself. I’ll take the burger mom and pop or the authentic Italian restaurant every time.
Did you know that a Boeing 717-200 is really a McDonnell Douglas MD95-30? ;-)
 
wjcandee
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Re: AA MadDog rumor du jour:

Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:01 am

Miamiairport wrote:
With fuel rising over the past year I don’t see the MD80 making it past 2019. I will miss the comfy F seats. Great for a short nap after a couple of drinks.


Oil has been artificially-high because of the impending Iran sanctions in the past few months. It has now fallen to within $5/barrel of where it was exactly one year ago. However, you are correct that during the time that American had been making the decision, it would have been as much as $15/barrel higher than where it is today. I guess there will always be some silly reason that those on the upside try to sell to move it up, but hopefully things chill for a while. Of course, in the US, there are always activities underway by environmentalists to try to mess with oil supply and production (like killing the Keystone XL and other pipelines) in order to spike prices and make expensive alternatives more price-competitive. Long-term, a major reason some folks want to push Texas to the left is to install people who will slowly kill the oil industry there.
 
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Spacepope
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Re: AA MadDog rumor du jour:

Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:08 pm

TripleA wrote:
Speaking of AA MD80s, on October 26 N434AA was flown from MIA to CCS and then flown back to MIA on November 6. Anyone know what that might have been about?

That airframe hasn't been owned by AA for a while. Mad Dogs are pretty popular in Venezuela, so could be its future operator kicking the tires.
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Runway28L
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Re: AA MadDog rumor du jour:

Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:56 pm

The AA MD-80 appears to be reinstated on DFW-PIT in March with AA’s schedule update.

AA247 S80 DFW 0700 PIT 1035
AA247 S80 PIT 1149 DFW 1400
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DeltaMD95
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Re: AA MadDog rumor du jour:

Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:14 pm

Is there any indication of how long the MD80 is expected to remain on MKE-DFW?
Did you know that a Boeing 717-200 is really a McDonnell Douglas MD95-30? ;-)
 
WayexTDI
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Re: AA MadDog rumor du jour:

Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:49 am

exFWAOONW wrote:
Lpbri wrote:
One thing going against the MD80 that has not been mentioned: NOISE. 8 used 319s have been aquired.
:hissyfit: you people don't know what noise is. Try 707s or DC8s with straight turbo-jets at full throttle. That is NOISE. :cloudnine:

And there are reasons why those no longer exist; noise being part of the reason.

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