flyboy_se
Posts: 761
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2000 5:31 am

Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:29 pm

There is more to this story than what we can see here. Have flown KL more times than I can count. The crew has always been nice. Someone said that they find the Dutch arrogant or rude, but I disagree. I find the Dutch to be straight forward, assertive and no nonsense. I prefer this approach than fake friendliness.
This is why I love KL as an airline, because their staff are very easy to deal with. I have flown KL to France, Spain, Portugal, Italy among other countries, and most times there have been an announcement in the destination language. I do think that KL tries to put crew with certain language skills on certain flights, but it is fully normal that this cannot happen on all their flights.
Having dealt with senior citizens many times, it is not uncommon that they do and say the rudest things and think they can get away with it. It could be the case here too.
I experienced the sweetest lady ever, only to be told to go f*"k myself because I did not know where the store she was looking for is.
I prefer to be crazy and happy rather than normal and bitter
 
tonystan
Posts: 1597
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:39 am

Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:12 am

I’m laughing at the comments on here and now some people seem to be jumping on KLM for not having a Spanish language speaker onboard.

Well here’s a fact for you, IBERIA aren’t exactly great at language speakers either!
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
Amsterdam
Posts: 304
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:52 am

Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:58 am

SCQ83 wrote:
Noshow wrote:
Not sure how this little problem (moving a laptop bag) could escalate to two paying passengers being thrown out? That must be a standard situation for pre-arranged psychological deescalation strategies by the crew. Shouldn't it?


I think if there had been a major argument before, some of those +100 smartphones on board would have recorded it. I assume maybe the elderly man just gave him a bad look or a finger... but is this enough to remove him? Again, this Dutch FA works in a service-oriented industry which has a lot of stressed / angry customers. Obviously they don't have to cope with insults or major threatenings from passengers. But if the guy is so sensitive, he just should change jobs and move to another industry. For instance I have no patience when dealing with people, so I don't work in a customer-service industry. It is that easy. And KLM backing him, so pathetic.

In any case, I concur with other posters. My experience is that Netherlands is not a very customer-friendly country (to put it mildly) so I am not that surprised about this.

VSMUT wrote:
Western Hemisphere aka North, South and Central America. It is a comparatively tiny language by European standards, with just 1 country speaking it. It is of irrelevance. German, English and French rank far above Spanish in usefulness. Even Poland is approaching Spain, but they don't complain, because they managed to get over their national pride and learnt to speak a more common language.


KLM flies to all those destinations where Spanish is an official language:

- Alicante
- Barcelona
- Bilbao
- Bogotá
- Buenos Aires
- Cartagena de Indias
- Guayaquil
- Havana
- Ibiza
- Lima
- Madrid
- Málaga
- Panamá
- San José de Costa Rica
- Santiago de Chile
- Valencia

That is a bit more than the number of destinations where Polish is an official language.


You forgot Quito
 
Amsterdam
Posts: 304
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:52 am

Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:58 am

SCQ83 wrote:
Noshow wrote:
Not sure how this little problem (moving a laptop bag) could escalate to two paying passengers being thrown out? That must be a standard situation for pre-arranged psychological deescalation strategies by the crew. Shouldn't it?


I think if there had been a major argument before, some of those +100 smartphones on board would have recorded it. I assume maybe the elderly man just gave him a bad look or a finger... but is this enough to remove him? Again, this Dutch FA works in a service-oriented industry which has a lot of stressed / angry customers. Obviously they don't have to cope with insults or major threatenings from passengers. But if the guy is so sensitive, he just should change jobs and move to another industry. For instance I have no patience when dealing with people, so I don't work in a customer-service industry. It is that easy. And KLM backing him, so pathetic.

In any case, I concur with other posters. My experience is that Netherlands is not a very customer-friendly country (to put it mildly) so I am not that surprised about this.

VSMUT wrote:
Western Hemisphere aka North, South and Central America. It is a comparatively tiny language by European standards, with just 1 country speaking it. It is of irrelevance. German, English and French rank far above Spanish in usefulness. Even Poland is approaching Spain, but they don't complain, because they managed to get over their national pride and learnt to speak a more common language.


KLM flies to all those destinations where Spanish is an official language:

- Alicante
- Barcelona
- Bilbao
- Bogotá
- Buenos Aires
- Cartagena de Indias
- Guayaquil
- Havana
- Ibiza
- Lima
- Madrid
- Málaga
- Panamá
- San José de Costa Rica
- Santiago de Chile
- Valencia

That is a bit more than the number of destinations where Polish is an official language.


And with Lissabon Porto Rio Sao Paulo and Fortaleza so maybe they should also start putting as standard portuguese speaking FAs on thos flights?

I just arrived in Sao Paulo for the GP with KLM, and surprisingly the captain spoke portuguese, all the public adresses.
 
Amsterdam
Posts: 304
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:52 am

Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:05 am

SCQ83 wrote:
Noshow wrote:
Not sure how this little problem (moving a laptop bag) could escalate to two paying passengers being thrown out? That must be a standard situation for pre-arranged psychological deescalation strategies by the crew. Shouldn't it?


I think if there had been a major argument before, some of those +100 smartphones on board would have recorded it. I assume maybe the elderly man just gave him a bad look or a finger... but is this enough to remove him? Again, this Dutch FA works in a service-oriented industry which has a lot of stressed / angry customers. Obviously they don't have to cope with insults or major threatenings from passengers. But if the guy is so sensitive, he just should change jobs and move to another industry. For instance I have no patience when dealing with people, so I don't work in a customer-service industry. It is that easy. And KLM backing him, so pathetic.

In any case, I concur with other posters. My experience is that Netherlands is not a very customer-friendly country (to put it mildly) so I am not that surprised about this.

VSMUT wrote:
Western Hemisphere aka North, South and Central America. It is a comparatively tiny language by European standards, with just 1 country speaking it. It is of irrelevance. German, English and French rank far above Spanish in usefulness. Even Poland is approaching Spain, but they don't complain, because they managed to get over their national pride and learnt to speak a more common language.


KLM flies to all those destinations where Spanish is an official language:

- Alicante
- Barcelona
- Bilbao
- Bogotá
- Buenos Aires
- Cartagena de Indias
- Guayaquil
- Havana
- Ibiza
- Lima
- Madrid
- Málaga
- Panamá
- San José de Costa Rica
- Santiago de Chile
- Valencia

That is a bit more than the number of destinations where Polish is an official language.


But friend
You actually undermine your own argument
With 17 spanish speaking destinations
Of which some are flown 5 times a day
How can a dutch or not spanish speaking airline have spanish speaking FAs on all of those or even half or a quarter of those flights?
 
Flanker7
Posts: 171
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:38 pm

Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:34 am

:lol:
Amsterdam wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
Noshow wrote:
Not sure how this little problem (moving a laptop bag) could escalate to two paying passengers being thrown out? That must be a standard situation for pre-arranged psychological deescalation strategies by the crew. Shouldn't it?


I think if there had been a major argument before, some of those +100 smartphones on board would have recorded it. I assume maybe the elderly man just gave him a bad look or a finger... but is this enough to remove him? Again, this Dutch FA works in a service-oriented industry which has a lot of stressed / angry customers. Obviously they don't have to cope with insults or major threatenings from passengers. But if the guy is so sensitive, he just should change jobs and move to another industry. For instance I have no patience when dealing with people, so I don't work in a customer-service industry. It is that easy. And KLM backing him, so pathetic.

In any case, I concur with other posters. My experience is that Netherlands is not a very customer-friendly country (to put it mildly) so I am not that surprised about this.

VSMUT wrote:
Western Hemisphere aka North, South and Central America. It is a comparatively tiny language by European standards, with just 1 country speaking it. It is of irrelevance. German, English and French rank far above Spanish in usefulness. Even Poland is approaching Spain, but they don't complain, because they managed to get over their national pride and learnt to speak a more common language.


KLM flies to all those destinations where Spanish is an official language:

- Alicante
- Barcelona
- Bilbao
- Bogotá
- Buenos Aires
- Cartagena de Indias
- Guayaquil
- Havana
- Ibiza
- Lima
- Madrid
- Málaga
- Panamá
- San José de Costa Rica
- Santiago de Chile
- Valencia

That is a bit more than the number of destinations where Polish is an official language.


And with Lissabon Porto Rio Sao Paulo and Fortaleza so maybe they should also start putting as standard portuguese speaking FAs on thos flights?

I just arrived in Sao Paulo for the GP with KLM, and surprisingly the captain spoke portuguese, all the public adresses.


If you just arrived you've then you've actually had my wife in the crew. How funny is that. And speaks Spanish :x
Flying blue only if possible
 
Kadish
Posts: 254
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:36 am

Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:46 am

tonystan wrote:
I’m laughing at the comments on here and now some people seem to be jumping on KLM for not having a Spanish language speaker onboard.

Well here’s a fact for you, IBERIA aren’t exactly great at language speakers either!


Anyone kicked off because of that?? ...
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 7560
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:59 am

tonystan wrote:
I’m laughing at the comments on here and now some people seem to be jumping on KLM for not having a Spanish language speaker onboard.

Well here’s a fact for you, IBERIA aren’t exactly great at language speakers either!


So the people at Iberia do not talk, what English for example?

There are a few languages that should be in the list for an European airline. I understand that not everybody does speak Dutch, Icelandic or Rhaeto Romance. But English, Spanish, French and German should be possible and cover most of the need for languages. I should not be difficult to hire inside the EEA the people with the proper language skills.

you can than add Russian, Arabic and Mandarin depending on where you fly to.

The biggest hypocrites you find in the English, French and Spanish language areas, everybody should be able to speak their language and most are not prepared to take up a second one themselves.
Most of the prominence of English and French is due to their use as a second language. Native speakers of those should perhaps thing a little about that. I would compare the call for that everybody should be able to speak English to our beloved NIMBY, everybody else should learn at least a second language, but not I.

Here in Iceland, if you finish high school or rather made your student examination, you have done 3 foreign languages, not a big deal. It gets easier with every language you learn. You should come out of kindergarden speaking more than one. Easiest time of your life to learn a language
 
RDUDDJI
Posts: 1933
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:42 am

Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:45 pm

I can understand an FA not speaking the language of every country they fly to (especially on a big international carrier like AF/KL). But on a flight to MAD, surely a sizeable percentage of the pax speak Spanish and many of those same pax also speak some English. It's really not that hard to ask for someone to translate. Airlines also have phone services that will translate. And as other have mentioned, there are apps for this.

If it's really all a translation issue, this could have been handled far better. But we only know one side of the story.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
tonystan
Posts: 1597
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Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:53 pm

My point is you are all jumping on KLM for not having Spanish speakers on the flight. What you are failing to address is the fact that perhaps the customer was actually rather abusive to the crew prior to the cameras being whipped out. You are being so quick to judge which is a very sad state of society.

As for the argument of language speakers, it’s a nice to have and not a need to have. Most airlines have built in pre recorded announcements to cover all the safety aspects passengers require in whatever language it may be needed for, if a crew member happens to speak the local language that’s great but that’s a mere bonus. In this day and age where airlines are trying to get more out of their crew for a lot less the likelihood of ever seeing dedicated crew for such frivolous tasks is zero.

And airlines I know who do not specifically allocate Spanish speakers to Spanish destinations....BA, Aer Lingus, Lufthansa, Air France, SAS, Finnair, Ryanair, Easyjet. If you get a Spanish speaker on those flights you’re just lucky. English is the international language of the industry.

Welcome to the real world, I suggest you address your outrage.
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
Kadish
Posts: 254
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:36 am

Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:02 pm

tonystan wrote:
My point is you are all jumping on KLM for not having Spanish speakers on the flight. What you are failing to address is the fact that perhaps the customer was actually rather abusive to the crew prior to the cameras being whipped out. You are being so quick to judge which is a very sad state of society.

As for the argument of language speakers, it’s a nice to have and not a need to have. Most airlines have built in pre recorded announcements to cover all the safety aspects passengers require in whatever language it may be needed for, if a crew member happens to speak the local language that’s great but that’s a mere bonus. In this day and age where airlines are trying to get more out of their crew for a lot less the likelihood of ever seeing dedicated crew for such frivolous tasks is zero.

And airlines I know who do not specifically allocate Spanish speakers to Spanish destinations....BA, Aer Lingus, Lufthansa, Air France, SAS, Finnair, Ryanair, Easyjet. If you get a Spanish speaker on those flights you’re just lucky. English is the international language of the industry.

Welcome to the real world, I suggest you address your outrage.


At least for me, the most important thing Is not to have spanish,english or hindu speakers the point Is that maybe some pax were kicked off from the plane because of the language...If this becomes true I will be able to fly only some places just cause i only speak english,spanish n french....
 
tonystan
Posts: 1597
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:39 am

Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:09 pm

Now you’re just being pedantic. Everyone and I mean everyone reading this article knows they didn’t get kicked off the aircraft just because they didn’t speak English or Dutch! To suggest that and to take the conversation down that route is just ridiculous and puts intelligent people off contributing to such forums as Airliners.net.

Now can we all just engage the brain again and stop with this fake horror. There’s no smoke without fire, what we really need to know before we shame anyone is what started that fire. Or am I being too sensible?
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
LupineChemist
Posts: 696
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Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:32 pm

So what I'm most shocked about is that nobody intervened to translate. I'm bilingual (native English, C2 Spanish) and there have been plenty of times once communication got beyond the most basic that I stepped in to help both sides as a translator. I would imagine on a flight between NL and Spain that someone nearby would be competent enough in both languages.

And yes, English knowledge is awful in Spain, triply so among the older generation. I saw someone saying Spanish people make no effort, there might be a lack of effort in learning, but it's really a lack of knowledge. Even in Madrid most people just can't speak English all that well.
 
76er
Posts: 568
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:04 pm

Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:39 pm

One of the FA’s involved told her side of the story on the KLcrew FB page:


Dat was mijn vlucht, die man heeft eerst de grond, daarna mij, de purser en uiteindelijk de captain een grote mond gegeven. Hij weigerde onze instructies te volgen en werd agressief toen zijn bagage verschoven werd en van onze Spaanstalige medepassagiers wilde/durfde niemand te vertalen.

And:

Deze man wilde anders niet luisteren, ons Spaans was voldoende en dat van de captain zelfs vloeiend.

Another FA who flew the couple home:

Deze mensen zijn dinsdag alsnog naar Madrid gevlogen; mevrouw verstond zeker wel een beetje Engels; waren ietwat kribbig, verder nix van gemerkt. Erg jammer dat dit soort filmpjes zo het internet op gejankt worden....

The video only shows the final seconds of the ordeal, after the couple was told they would be offloaded.
Sheds a different light on the subject, doesn’t it?
Last edited by 76er on Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
petertenthije
Posts: 3606
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 10:00 pm

Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:49 pm

76er wrote:
One of the FA’s involved told her side of the story on the KLcrew FB page:


Dat was mijn vlucht, die man heeft eerst de grond, daarna mij, de purser en uiteindelijk de captain een grote mond gegeven. Hij weigerde onze instructies te volgen en werd agressief toen zijn bagage verschoven werd en van onze Spaanstalige medepassagiers wilde/durfde niemand te vertalen.

And:

Deze man wilde anders niet luisteren, ons Spaans was voldoende en dat van de captain zelfs vloeiend.

Another FA who flew the couple home:

Deze mensen zijn dinsdag alsnog naar Madrid gevlogen; mevrouw verstond zeker wel een beetje Engels; waren ietwat kribbig, verder nix van gemerkt. Erg jammer dat dit soort filmpjes zo het internet op gejankt worden....

The video only shows the final seconds of the ordeal, after the couple was told they would be offloaded.
To translate:
This was my flight, the man first insulted ground (crew), myself, the purser amd the captain. He refused to follow our instructions, and became aggresive when his luggage was shifted. Of our passengers noone wanted/dared to translate.
...
This man refused to listen. Our Spanish was sufficient. Our captain was even fluent.
...
These people still flew tuesday to Madrid. The lady certainly had a basic grasp of English. They were a bit moody, but otherwise I had no problems with them. It’s a pity these kind of movies are just thrown on the internet like that.
Attamottamotta!
 
76er
Posts: 568
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Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:51 pm

Do you really think the avarage Dutch flight attendant cares anything about the 80-year war?? Heck, even my parents have long forgiven the Germans.
Can’t handle the truth apparently.
 
Kadish
Posts: 254
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:36 am

Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:37 pm

tonystan wrote:
Now you’re just being pedantic. Everyone and I mean everyone reading this article knows they didn’t get kicked off the aircraft just because they didn’t speak English or Dutch! To suggest that and to take the conversation down that route is just ridiculous and puts intelligent people off contributing to such forums as Airliners.net.

Now can we all just engage the brain again and stop with this fake horror. There’s no smoke without fire, what we really need to know before we shame anyone is what started that fire. Or am I being too sensible?


Do you really know what pedantic means? Obvioulsy you dont so maybe your brain and politeness Is the one to be engaged.
Sorry but as far as We know we only have one version. Hence if you want to digress gong to non ridiculous routes it Is fine...but not the truth.
Btw im not saying the elderly are right but its the fact We have.

So do us a favour say whatever you like but be polite...
 
Amsterdam
Posts: 304
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:52 am

Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:53 pm

petertenthije wrote:
76er wrote:
One of the FA’s involved told her side of the story on the KLcrew FB page:


Dat was mijn vlucht, die man heeft eerst de grond, daarna mij, de purser en uiteindelijk de captain een grote mond gegeven. Hij weigerde onze instructies te volgen en werd agressief toen zijn bagage verschoven werd en van onze Spaanstalige medepassagiers wilde/durfde niemand te vertalen.

And:

Deze man wilde anders niet luisteren, ons Spaans was voldoende en dat van de captain zelfs vloeiend.

Another FA who flew the couple home:

Deze mensen zijn dinsdag alsnog naar Madrid gevlogen; mevrouw verstond zeker wel een beetje Engels; waren ietwat kribbig, verder nix van gemerkt. Erg jammer dat dit soort filmpjes zo het internet op gejankt worden....

The video only shows the final seconds of the ordeal, after the couple was told they would be offloaded.
To translate:
This was my flight, the man first insulted ground (crew), myself, the purser amd the captain. He refused to follow our instructions, and became aggresive when his luggage was shifted. Of our passengers noone wanted/dared to translate.
...
This man refused to listen. Our Spanish was sufficient. Our captain was even fluent.
...
These people still flew tuesday to Madrid. The lady certainly had a basic grasp of English. They were a bit moody, but otherwise I had no problems with them. It’s a pity these kind of movies are just thrown on the internet like that.


Case closed
 
mrv85
Posts: 44
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:15 pm

Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:56 pm

This thread is getting ridiculous. Lets try to stay objective here and not let a troll mess it up by remarks about wars which ended 400 years ago. However, I am looking forward to all Spanish speaking Arabic given that they used to be a Moorish province ;)

To get back on topic, The issue here seems to be that the elderly couple did not want to listen. On every airline in the world, irrespective of languages spoken, you need to respect the crew and follow orders, regardless of your age. If you dont you end up removed.
 
Amsterdam
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Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:52 am

Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:02 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
76er wrote:
Do you really think the avarage Dutch flight attendant cares anything about the 80-year war?? Heck, even my parents have long forgiven the Germans.
Can’t handle the truth apparently.


Netherlands was a Spanish province, like Peru or Florida. You can expect some people to speak the language, like you do in Lima or Miami.


Read this:

“The Seventeen Provinces formed the core of the Habsburg Netherlands which passed to the Spanish Habsburgs upon the abdication of Emperor Charles V in 1556. When part of the Netherlands separated to form the autonomous Dutch Republic in 1581, the remainder of the area stayed under Spanish rule until the War of the Spanish Succession.“

So you do understand we are talking about 25 years only and that it was an inherited claim?

The spanish never conquered Holland.
And when they tried they got defeated and send back home.

So it should be you who might have bad feelings about it, not us.

But the 2010 WC finale, that hurts.

Anyway
It seems the crew handled well and it was really the fault of the old man.
 
SCQ83
Topic Author
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Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:02 pm

mrv85 wrote:
However, I am looking forward to all Spanish speaking Arabic given that they used to be a Moorish province ;)


This is already happening in many parts of Spain... and in the Netherlands too ;)
 
mrv85
Posts: 44
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:15 pm

Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:11 pm

This is already happening in many parts of Spain... and in the Netherlands too ;)


Haha you might have point here:)
 
Flighty
Posts: 9707
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:18 pm

Cunard wrote:
Exactly it's not a requirement to speak a second language but in this day of age there is bound to be someone close at hand who might be able to speak the language.

I deal with many nationalities in my line of work and I can just about get away with French and I understand a little German but fluent I'm not, if I don't understand a particular persons language the first thing I do is to ask a colleague or any of the other passengers if they understand that particular language and nine times out of ten there is always someone that does.

It makes the situation far more calmer :-)

Couldn't the cabin crew done the same in this situation but to be honest and like some posters have already mentioned there is more than likely a different side to this story that we're not aware of and only those that were actually involved will know the full facts that lead to the passengers being de boarded.


Is it not a requirement that a KLM cabin crew member speak (AN... perhaps not all) official language of each destination country?

I thought that is a requirement to serve such routes legally.

Ah I see. From translation, the pax were aggressive and:
"our Spanish was sufficient and that of the captain even fluent"

Yes, crew needs some local language. It is kind of improtant for safety. The goal is, after all to deliver passengers safely, so it is necessary to know if they are having a health problem or to issue evacuation orders in their language.
Last edited by Flighty on Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Amsterdam
Posts: 304
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Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:23 pm

Flighty wrote:
Cunard wrote:
Exactly it's not a requirement to speak a second language but in this day of age there is bound to be someone close at hand who might be able to speak the language.

I deal with many nationalities in my line of work and I can just about get away with French and I understand a little German but fluent I'm not, if I don't understand a particular persons language the first thing I do is to ask a colleague or any of the other passengers if they understand that particular language and nine times out of ten there is always someone that does.

It makes the situation far more calmer :-)

Couldn't the cabin crew done the same in this situation but to be honest and like some posters have already mentioned there is more than likely a different side to this story that we're not aware of and only those that were actually involved will know the full facts that lead to the passengers being de boarded.


Is it not a requirement that a KLM cabin crew member speak (AN... perhaps not all) official language of each destination country?

I thought that is a requirement to serve such routes legally.


Of course not

And as stated before
The klm captain spoke fluent spanish

This old man just misbehaved thats all
 
User avatar
coronado
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Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:23 pm

:lol: :lol: From reply 31 KLM flies to all those destinations where Spanish is an official language:

- Alicante
- Barcelona
- Bilbao
- Bogotá
- Buenos Aires
- Cartagena de Indias
- Guayaquil
- Havana
- Ibiza
- Lima
- Madrid
- Málaga
- Panamá
- San José de Costa Rica
- Santiago de Chile
- Valencia

They also fly to Miami :lol: where you need to be able to say'' dos cervezas'' if you expect to be served promptly.
The Original Coronado: First CV jet flights RG CV 990 July 1965; DL CV 880 July 1965; Spantax CV990 Feb 1973
 
Amsterdam
Posts: 304
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Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:29 pm

Flighty wrote:
Cunard wrote:
Exactly it's not a requirement to speak a second language but in this day of age there is bound to be someone close at hand who might be able to speak the language.

I deal with many nationalities in my line of work and I can just about get away with French and I understand a little German but fluent I'm not, if I don't understand a particular persons language the first thing I do is to ask a colleague or any of the other passengers if they understand that particular language and nine times out of ten there is always someone that does.

It makes the situation far more calmer :-)

Couldn't the cabin crew done the same in this situation but to be honest and like some posters have already mentioned there is more than likely a different side to this story that we're not aware of and only those that were actually involved will know the full facts that lead to the passengers being de boarded.


Is it not a requirement that a KLM cabin crew member speak (AN... perhaps not all) official language of each destination country?

I thought that is a requirement to serve such routes legally.

Ah I see. From translation, the pax were aggressive and:
"our Spanish was sufficient and that of the captain even fluent"

Yes, crew needs some local language. It is kind of improtant for safety. The goal is, after all to deliver passengers safely, so it is necessary to know if they are having a health problem or to issue evacuation orders in their language.


No crew doesnt need some local language.
Impossible
Go look at for example at the KL and LH networks and the frequencies and think how you would do that.
 
Flighty
Posts: 9707
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:36 pm

Amsterdam wrote:
Flighty wrote:
Cunard wrote:
Exactly it's not a requirement to speak a second language but in this day of age there is bound to be someone close at hand who might be able to speak the language.

I deal with many nationalities in my line of work and I can just about get away with French and I understand a little German but fluent I'm not, if I don't understand a particular persons language the first thing I do is to ask a colleague or any of the other passengers if they understand that particular language and nine times out of ten there is always someone that does.

It makes the situation far more calmer :-)

Couldn't the cabin crew done the same in this situation but to be honest and like some posters have already mentioned there is more than likely a different side to this story that we're not aware of and only those that were actually involved will know the full facts that lead to the passengers being de boarded.


Is it not a requirement that a KLM cabin crew member speak (AN... perhaps not all) official language of each destination country?

I thought that is a requirement to serve such routes legally.

Ah I see. From translation, the pax were aggressive and:
"our Spanish was sufficient and that of the captain even fluent"

Yes, crew needs some local language. It is kind of improtant for safety. The goal is, after all to deliver passengers safely, so it is necessary to know if they are having a health problem or to issue evacuation orders in their language.


No crew doesnt need some local language.
Impossible
Go look at for example at the KL and LH networks and the frequencies and think how you would do that.

This interests me. Could you name one such destination? On a flight to Norway, is it necessary to use Norwegian at all? No? What about Korean? India has English as an official language. Most of Africa includes either English, Portuguese, Arabic or French. All of which I expect KLM can speak.
 
Amsterdam
Posts: 304
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:52 am

Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:12 pm

Flighty wrote:
Amsterdam wrote:
Flighty wrote:

Is it not a requirement that a KLM cabin crew member speak (AN... perhaps not all) official language of each destination country?

I thought that is a requirement to serve such routes legally.

Ah I see. From translation, the pax were aggressive and:
"our Spanish was sufficient and that of the captain even fluent"

Yes, crew needs some local language. It is kind of improtant for safety. The goal is, after all to deliver passengers safely, so it is necessary to know if they are having a health problem or to issue evacuation orders in their language.


No crew doesnt need some local language.
Impossible
Go look at for example at the KL and LH networks and the frequencies and think how you would do that.

This interests me. Could you name one such destination? On a flight to Norway, is it necessary to use Norwegian at all? No? What about Korean? India has English as an official language. Most of Africa includes either English, Portuguese, Arabic or French. All of which I expect KLM can speak.


For example Athens.
KL flys a couple times a day to Athens.
With crews that do not speak greek.
Boekarest and the crew does not speak romanian. Also a couple times a day.
So thats a lot of flights every day to athens boekarest boedapest split prague warsaw krakau, kiev, sint petersburg, moscow.

So only to cover east europe for every flight you are going to need 100s of FA’s in your company that speak one of all those east european languages. Plus besides getting those people working for you, you also must get them to agree to fly to those destiantions all the time during their career.
Instead of going to barcelona, new york or the beach of aruba.
 
Kadish
Posts: 254
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:36 am

Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:51 pm

Amsterdam wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
76er wrote:
Do you really think the avarage Dutch flight attendant cares anything about the 80-year war?? Heck, even my parents have long forgiven the Germans.
Can’t handle the truth apparently.


Netherlands was a Spanish province, like Peru or Florida. You can expect some people to speak the language, like you do in Lima or Miami.


Read this:

“The Seventeen Provinces formed the core of the Habsburg Netherlands which passed to the Spanish Habsburgs upon the abdication of Emperor Charles V in 1556. When part of the Netherlands separated to form the autonomous Dutch Republic in 1581, the remainder of the area stayed under Spanish rule until the War of the Spanish Succession.“

So you do understand we are talking about 25 years only and that it was an inherited claim?

The spanish never conquered Holland.
And when they tried they got defeated and send back home.

So it should be you who might have bad feelings about it, not us.

But the 2010 WC finale, that hurts.

Anyway
It seems the crew handled well and it was really the fault of the old man.


I think Xavi Alonso also regrets that match! :rotfl:
 
tonystan
Posts: 1597
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:39 am

Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:27 am

Kadish wrote:
tonystan wrote:
Now you’re just being pedantic. Everyone and I mean everyone reading this article knows they didn’t get kicked off the aircraft just because they didn’t speak English or Dutch! To suggest that and to take the conversation down that route is just ridiculous and puts intelligent people off contributing to such forums as Airliners.net.

Now can we all just engage the brain again and stop with this fake horror. There’s no smoke without fire, what we really need to know before we shame anyone is what started that fire. Or am I being too sensible?


Do you really know what pedantic means? Obvioulsy you dont so maybe your brain and politeness Is the one to be engaged.
Sorry but as far as We know we only have one version. Hence if you want to digress gong to non ridiculous routes it Is fine...but not the truth.
Btw im not saying the elderly are right but its the fact We have.

So do us a favour say whatever you like but be polite...


Pedantic : excessively concerned with minor details
Your words: “the point Is that maybe some pax were kicked off from the plane because of the language...If this becomes true I will be able to fly only some places just cause i only speak english,spanish n french....”

I know exactly what the term pedantic means and it applies quite readily to your self “oh kinder than I” one! Now if you can’t handle being challenged in a debate leave it, but certainly do not go accusing those who challenge you of being unkind, that’s a very Donald Trump thing to do!

Getting off topic! This forum has been going to the dogs in recent times!
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
Amsterdam
Posts: 304
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:52 am

Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:19 am

tonystan wrote:
Kadish wrote:
tonystan wrote:
Now you’re just being pedantic. Everyone and I mean everyone reading this article knows they didn’t get kicked off the aircraft just because they didn’t speak English or Dutch! To suggest that and to take the conversation down that route is just ridiculous and puts intelligent people off contributing to such forums as Airliners.net.

Now can we all just engage the brain again and stop with this fake horror. There’s no smoke without fire, what we really need to know before we shame anyone is what started that fire. Or am I being too sensible?


Do you really know what pedantic means? Obvioulsy you dont so maybe your brain and politeness Is the one to be engaged.
Sorry but as far as We know we only have one version. Hence if you want to digress gong to non ridiculous routes it Is fine...but not the truth.
Btw im not saying the elderly are right but its the fact We have.

So do us a favour say whatever you like but be polite...


Pedantic : excessively concerned with minor details
Your words: “the point Is that maybe some pax were kicked off from the plane because of the language...If this becomes true I will be able to fly only some places just cause i only speak english,spanish n french....”

I know exactly what the term pedantic means and it applies quite readily to your self “oh kinder than I” one! Now if you can’t handle being challenged in a debate leave it, but certainly do not go accusing those who challenge you of being unkind, that’s a very Donald Trump thing to do!

Getting off topic! This forum has been going to the dogs in recent times!


Come on man
Even Socrates said the youth is getting crazy and we have even been to the moon and back by now

A forum is a forum

Just keep it on the topic dear friends
 
Kadish
Posts: 254
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:36 am

Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:34 am

tonystan wrote:
Kadish wrote:
tonystan wrote:
Now you’re just being pedantic. Everyone and I mean everyone reading this article knows they didn’t get kicked off the aircraft just because they didn’t speak English or Dutch! To suggest that and to take the conversation down that route is just ridiculous and puts intelligent people off contributing to such forums as Airliners.net.

Now can we all just engage the brain again and stop with this fake horror. There’s no smoke without fire, what we really need to know before we shame anyone is what started that fire. Or am I being too sensible?


Do you really know what pedantic means? Obvioulsy you dont so maybe your brain and politeness Is the one to be engaged.
Sorry but as far as We know we only have one version. Hence if you want to digress gong to non ridiculous routes it Is fine...but not the truth.
Btw im not saying the elderly are right but its the fact We have.

So do us a favour say whatever you like but be polite...


Pedantic : excessively concerned with minor details
Your words: “the point Is that maybe some pax were kicked off from the plane because of the language...If this becomes true I will be able to fly only some places just cause i only speak english,spanish n french....”

I know exactly what the term pedantic means and it applies quite readily to your self “oh kinder than I” one! Now if you can’t handle being challenged in a debate leave it, but certainly do not go accusing those who challenge you of being unkind, that’s a very Donald Trump thing to do!

Getting off topic! This forum has been going to the dogs in recent times!


See u soon!

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