SCQ83
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Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:15 pm

So it seems that some KLM FA took a power trip.

https://www.antena3.com/noticias/mundo/ ... 1c781.html

https://twitter.com/grubio92/status/1059542504285052931

In Spanish only.

According to A3, the FA moved one of the hand luggage pieces, he couldn't speak Spanish and the elderly couple could not speak English. It can only be seen the elderly man explaining very calmly his version.

Una pareja de ancianos españoles, expulsados de un avión tras una discusión agravada por no entender el idioma

La tripulación de la aerolínea KLM expulsó del avión a un matrimonio español de ancianos. Solo hablaban español y el hombre, al ver que un miembro de la tripulación le movía su equipaje de sitio, le pidió explicaciones. La tensión fue a más al no entender el idioma usado por el auxiliar de vuelo y los dos acabaron fuera del avión y sin realizar el trayecto Ámsterdam-Madrid.
 
dfpinto
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Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:22 pm

Something is very wrong here.

Wasn't there anyone on that flight that could translate the conversation between the crew and the couple?
 
tonystan
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Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:23 pm

And before the mass cyber hysteria begins, can we please have the other side of the story!
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:29 pm

tonystan wrote:
And before the mass cyber hysteria begins, can we please have the other side of the story!


In the A3 video the old man explains himself very calmly. By looking at the KLM FA and I can imagine what happened...
 
tonystan
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Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:37 pm

Again I’ll say, what really happened? KLM crew are not known for blowing things out of proportion. It’s what happened before everyone whipped their phones out to film that I would be interested in seeing!
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
Flanker7
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Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:47 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
tonystan wrote:
And before the mass cyber hysteria begins, can we please have the other side of the story!


In the A3 video the old man explains himself very calmly. By looking at the KLM FA and I can imagine what happened...

You can see more then I can.
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E2
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Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:01 pm

tonystan wrote:
And before the mass cyber hysteria begins, can we please have the other side of the story!


Fat chance of that, the OP gets the outrage bus rolling with the "FA power trip" comment, and once that bus is out of the depot the other side of the story is irrelevant.
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ikramerica
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Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:27 pm

There are a lot of jerks in the world. They don’t magically turn into saints when they get older.

We need to hear both sides of story. Or maybe we don’t and can just move on?
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bennett123
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Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:27 pm

I do not speak Spanish, but whatever the issue was seemed to be handled quite calmly.
 
76er
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Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:58 pm

Took the liberty to run the abovementioned tweet through Translate:

Flight Amsterdam-Madrid. They take a Spanish passenger out of an airplane because there is no one on the crew who can speak with him in their language. the pilot says it was impossible to communicate with him. Company shame

I'd call BS on that.
 
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Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:24 pm

76er wrote:
Took the liberty to run the abovementioned tweet through Translate:

Flight Amsterdam-Madrid. They take a Spanish passenger out of an airplane because there is no one on the crew who can speak with him in their language. the pilot says it was impossible to communicate with him. Company shame

I'd call BS on that.


Google translate is our friend. Grab a tablet, and go to town.

Keeje quote, in DUTCH: "...De taal begrijpen is belangrijk."

GOOGLE Translate to Spanish: "....Comprender el idioma es importante."

...and then GOOGLE Translate to English: "...Understanding the language is important."

That took all of a minute to convert. This is when technology can be used to help diffuse an unfortunate event (as long as both parties are willing to use it).
AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
 
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TurboJet707
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Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:31 pm

76er wrote:
I'd call BS on that.


:checkmark: :checkmark:

There must have been more to it than just not being able to understand each other. That in itself can never a reason to send pax off a plane. I have a feeling that the complaining passenger 'conveniently forgot' to tell the whole story.
 
jmmadrid
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Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:38 pm

Spanish must rank in the top 3 or 4 native languages spoken by KLM's passengers (sharing podium with English and French). They fly to at least 8 countries where the official language is Spanish.

It's hard to believe that on a flight TO MADRID they didn't have one single FA that could speak at least some Spanish. Probably even portuguese or italian would have got them by with these passegers.

So from now on, KLM should warn their Spanish and Latin American passengers that they cannot fly with them UNLESS they are able to communicate in English or Dutch.

Even RYANAIR's foreign crews make the announcements in Spanish on all flights to/from Spain. I've heard polish, romanian and even bulgarian FAs make an effort.

By the way, the minimum courtesy that I expect from a FA who wants/needs to move my bag is asking around to whom it belongs to, and explain where they will place it.
 
Amsterdam
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Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:57 pm

jmmadrid wrote:
Spanish must rank in the top 3 or 4 native languages spoken by KLM's passengers (sharing podium with English and French). They fly to at least 8 countries where the official language is Spanish.

It's hard to believe that on a flight TO MADRID they didn't have one single FA that could speak at least some Spanish. Probably even portuguese or italian would have got them by with these passegers.

So from now on, KLM should warn their Spanish and Latin American passengers that they cannot fly with them UNLESS they are able to communicate in English or Dutch.

Even RYANAIR's foreign crews make the announcements in Spanish on all flights to/from Spain. I've heard polish, romanian and even bulgarian FAs make an effort.

By the way, the minimum courtesy that I expect from a FA who wants/needs to move my bag is asking around to whom it belongs to, and explain where they will place it.


Dutch people dont speak Spanish.
Almost all KLM FAs are Dutch.
Those couple dutch FAs that do speak spanish are not forced to fly to MAD, they get the same rosters as all the other FAs.
I dont think LH and BA and SAS do have always a spanish speaking fa on board flights to MAD.
 
arcticcruiser
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Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:50 am

Amsterdam wrote:
jmmadrid wrote:
Spanish must rank in the top 3 or 4 native languages spoken by KLM's passengers (sharing podium with English and French). They fly to at least 8 countries where the official language is Spanish.

It's hard to believe that on a flight TO MADRID they didn't have one single FA that could speak at least some Spanish. Probably even portuguese or italian would have got them by with these passegers.

So from now on, KLM should warn their Spanish and Latin American passengers that they cannot fly with them UNLESS they are able to communicate in English or Dutch.

Even RYANAIR's foreign crews make the announcements in Spanish on all flights to/from Spain. I've heard polish, romanian and even bulgarian FAs make an effort.

By the way, the minimum courtesy that I expect from a FA who wants/needs to move my bag is asking around to whom it belongs to, and explain where they will place it.


Dutch people dont speak Spanish.
Almost all KLM FAs are Dutch.
Those couple dutch FAs that do speak spanish are not forced to fly to MAD, they get the same rosters as all the other FAs.
I dont think LH and BA and SAS do have always a spanish speaking fa on board flights to MAD.


And there we have it. I wonder why I have always felt the Dutch to be on the arrogant side...
 
Cunard
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Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:08 am

Exactly it's not a requirement to speak a second language but in this day of age there is bound to be someone close at hand who might be able to speak the language.

I deal with many nationalities in my line of work and I can just about get away with French and I understand a little German but fluent I'm not, if I don't understand a particular persons language the first thing I do is to ask a colleague or any of the other passengers if they understand that particular language and nine times out of ten there is always someone that does.

It makes the situation far more calmer :-)

Couldn't the cabin crew done the same in this situation but to be honest and like some posters have already mentioned there is more than likely a different side to this story that we're not aware of and only those that were actually involved will know the full facts that lead to the passengers being de boarded.
 
Bradin
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Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:49 am

<sarcasm>I didn't realize that being fluent in the carrier's flag language is a requirement for flying on any seat on a plane</sarcasm>
 
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intrance
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Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:59 am

arcticcruiser wrote:
And there we have it. I wonder why I have always felt the Dutch to be on the arrogant side...
Thanks for the generalization based on one comment. A lot of the KLM cabin crew is very multi-lingual, a result of growing up with our school system and simple geography.

It can still happen that there was no one on the crew fluent enough in Spanish of course. Usually people can still communicate by using hand and feet so to speak, just gesture and show what you want to do or have done. I suspect that even that failed and perhaps therefore they were off loaded.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:00 am

arcticcruiser wrote:
And there we have it. I wonder why I have always felt the Dutch to be on the arrogant side...


I think the video reveals a few things.

You can see the male FA that started this thing moving around like a spoiled brat. The female FA completely passive thinking like "WTF".

I assume the old man gave him a bad look or sth like that (remember they don't speak a common language). But the KLM FA should learn that in a service-oriented job like being a FA he will confront angry or stressed people on a daily basis. Maybe he should change jobs.
 
thaiflyer
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Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:36 am

Cunard wrote:
Exactly it's not a requirement to speak a second language but in this day of age there is bound to be someone close at hand who might be able to speak the language.



Almost all Dutch can speak at least two languages and many of them even 3 or more languages.
Also the Dutch FA are not known to be on a power trip unlike some other nationalities.
 
Amsterdam
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Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:13 am

arcticcruiser wrote:
Amsterdam wrote:
jmmadrid wrote:
Spanish must rank in the top 3 or 4 native languages spoken by KLM's passengers (sharing podium with English and French). They fly to at least 8 countries where the official language is Spanish.

It's hard to believe that on a flight TO MADRID they didn't have one single FA that could speak at least some Spanish. Probably even portuguese or italian would have got them by with these passegers.

So from now on, KLM should warn their Spanish and Latin American passengers that they cannot fly with them UNLESS they are able to communicate in English or Dutch.

Even RYANAIR's foreign crews make the announcements in Spanish on all flights to/from Spain. I've heard polish, romanian and even bulgarian FAs make an effort.

By the way, the minimum courtesy that I expect from a FA who wants/needs to move my bag is asking around to whom it belongs to, and explain where they will place it.


Dutch people dont speak Spanish.
Almost all KLM FAs are Dutch.
Those couple dutch FAs that do speak spanish are not forced to fly to MAD, they get the same rosters as all the other FAs.
I dont think LH and BA and SAS do have always a spanish speaking fa on board flights to MAD.


And there we have it. I wonder why I have always felt the Dutch to be on the arrogant side...


You are calling facts arrogant

And KLM is now 99 years old.
And it has flown probably millions of spanish speaking people and how often has something like this happened.
And we still dont know what really happened anyway.

Many dutch speak english and some also speak a third or fourth language.

But saying its hard to believe no dutch FA on a flight to MAD speaks at least some spanish is ridicilous.

Yes almost all of the dutch FAs can say dos cerveza por favor and hasta la vista but usually thats it.

And if this FA in the video really has done his job wrong he will certainly hear it.
 
anstar
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Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:22 am

Normally pax get on sit down and have little interaction with the FA's. I wonder what required the interaction? Needed to move a bag? Refusal to follow instructions??
 
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Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:34 am

arcticcruiser wrote:
And there we have it. I wonder why I have always felt the Dutch to be on the arrogant side...


Please, where are you from?
I`d love to offer you a generalisation about your nationality.
So easy to do.


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vfw614
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Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:43 am

If this is the norm and such a language requirement exists, it will be the end of air travel as we know it. I have met older people at airports dozens of times who could not speak a commonly-spoken foreign language - and sometimes I had the feeling they were even more or less illiterate - and yet they were still traveling from one end of the world to the other to visit family etc.
 
Flanker7
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Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:58 am

jmmadrid wrote:
Spanish must rank in the top 3 or 4 native languages spoken by KLM's passengers (sharing podium with English and French). They fly to at least 8 countries where the official language is Spanish.

It's hard to believe that on a flight TO MADRID they didn't have one single FA that could speak at least some Spanish. Probably even portuguese or italian would have got them by with these passegers.

So from now on, KLM should warn their Spanish and Latin American passengers that they cannot fly with them UNLESS they are able to communicate in English or Dutch.



Even RYANAIR's foreign crews make the announcements in Spanish on all flights to/from Spain. I've heard polish, romanian and even bulgarian FAs make an effort.

By the way, the minimum courtesy that I expect from a FA who wants/needs to move my bag is asking around to whom it belongs to, and explain where they will place it.



Every passenger who travels in that case should be able to speak and understand some English. What I'm saying is that I works both ways. As for this incident, if it's deemed to be unfair treatment by the FA the FA will have some explaining to do.
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SCQ83
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Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:03 am

The most pathetic thing is KLM's press release saying they cannot control their PAX behaviour.

So they don't even apologise or do a more or less neutral press release, but they blame the PAX directly.

Pathetic.
 
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Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:16 am

Flanker7 wrote:
Every passenger who travels in that case should be able to speak and understand some English. What I'm saying is that I works both ways. As for this incident, if it's deemed to be unfair treatment by the FA the FA will have some explaining to do.


Well, that excludes 80 per cent of the world's population from air travel then. To be honest, in some countries even the FA's English is barely understandable...
 
jmmadrid
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Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:45 am

Amsterdam wrote:

Dutch people dont speak Spanish.
Almost all KLM FAs are Dutch.


In this day and age, such lack of diversity in a "global" airline is an embarrasing weakness.

As I said before, even a cheap and disgusting airline like Ryanair try to roster some crew members that speak "some" basic Spanish on their flights to/from Spain. I haven't flown them between other third countries so I do not know if this is a rule.

Do KLM have the same policy -Dutch-and-English-language-speaking dutch cabin crew- on their flights to Japan and China? If so, good luck -market wise- with a flight full of chinese or japanese passengers with no staff that can speak their language.
 
Noshow
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Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:49 am

I think as a rule there should be at least one flight attendant on board who knows to speak the language of the destination country. Plus spanish is not that exotic so even more one should know it.
Not sure how this little problem (moving a laptop bag) could escalate to two paying passengers being thrown out? That must be a standard situation for pre-arranged psychological deescalation strategies by the crew. Shouldn't it?
I'm not blaming KLM or the passenger but I hope passenger handling gets improved after this.
 
jmmadrid
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Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:54 am

Noshow wrote:
I think as a rule there should be at least one flight attendant on board who knows to speak the language of the destination country. Plus spanish is not that exotic so even more one should know it.


Exactly.

And if KLM don't do this, then it's a weakness and not something to be proud of.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:06 am

Noshow wrote:
Not sure how this little problem (moving a laptop bag) could escalate to two paying passengers being thrown out? That must be a standard situation for pre-arranged psychological deescalation strategies by the crew. Shouldn't it?


I think if there had been a major argument before, some of those +100 smartphones on board would have recorded it. I assume maybe the elderly man just gave him a bad look or a finger... but is this enough to remove him? Again, this Dutch FA works in a service-oriented industry which has a lot of stressed / angry customers. Obviously they don't have to cope with insults or major threatenings from passengers. But if the guy is so sensitive, he just should change jobs and move to another industry. For instance I have no patience when dealing with people, so I don't work in a customer-service industry. It is that easy. And KLM backing him, so pathetic.

In any case, I concur with other posters. My experience is that Netherlands is not a very customer-friendly country (to put it mildly) so I am not that surprised about this.

VSMUT wrote:
Western Hemisphere aka North, South and Central America. It is a comparatively tiny language by European standards, with just 1 country speaking it. It is of irrelevance. German, English and French rank far above Spanish in usefulness. Even Poland is approaching Spain, but they don't complain, because they managed to get over their national pride and learnt to speak a more common language.


KLM flies to all those destinations where Spanish is an official language:

- Alicante
- Barcelona
- Bilbao
- Bogotá
- Buenos Aires
- Cartagena de Indias
- Guayaquil
- Havana
- Ibiza
- Lima
- Madrid
- Málaga
- Panamá
- San José de Costa Rica
- Santiago de Chile
- Valencia

That is a bit more than the number of destinations where Polish is an official language.
Last edited by SCQ83 on Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:21 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:07 am

Noshow wrote:
I think as a rule there should be at least one flight attendant on board who knows to speak the language of the destination country. Plus spanish is not that exotic so even more one should know it.


And how exactly do you propose that they do that? A KLM short-haul crew could end up in any of 30 different language destinations on any given day.
 
Noshow
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Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:23 am

And how exactly do you propose that they do that? A KLM short-haul crew could end up in any of 30 different language destinations on any given day.


With english, spanish and french they should be covered pretty well for starters. Add a little german, russian, italian and whatever and you get my drift. Must be fun for any programmer in crew scheduling.
 
dfpinto
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Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:37 am

I've been in Portuguese domestic flights (e.g. FNC-OPO and FNC-LIS) without a single Portuguese speaking crew member in sight. Everyone made it safely to their destination.

If you can't communicate with the crew, your neighbour probably can, just ask politely. If you can't communicate with your passenger, ask another passenger to translate. It's not rocket science, this is basic social interaction. If you can't do this, language skills is definitely the least of your problems.
 
CDGIAD
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Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:38 am

Obviously we don't have all facts here.
But I agree that Spanish usually make no effort to try to speak/understand any English unless they really can speak it.
They always talk to you in Spanish first.
I'm French so I can understand a bit but they make no effort to speak slower.
In any case they seem even worse than French when it comes to dealing with the fact not everybody speaks Spanish.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:42 am

dfpinto wrote:
If you can't communicate with the crew, your neighbour probably can, just ask politely. If you can't communicate with your passenger, ask another passenger to translate. It's not rocket science, this is basic social interaction. If you can't do this, language skills is definitely the least of your problems.


It could also be the crew. Again the crew should make the maximum effort to understand passengers, and not the other way around.

Coming back to the Dutch issue, last year I flew TUI from Toulon to Charleroi (so France to French-speaking Belgium). All the crew was coincidentally Flemish (it was an Embraer). They made the announcements in English, French and Dutch but you could hear they were so "annoyed" to have to speak in French (basically they spoke at light-speed and you could not even understood anything). Ironically in Flemish (Dutch) they spoke calmly. I felt this was so arrogant when most of the passengers were French or French-speaking Belgians. If you are Flemish and speaking French (for whatever narrow-minded / nationalistic reasons) annoys you "so much" that you have to spit in your passengers, then this is not the right job / company for you.
 
Jetty
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Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:42 am

SCQ83 wrote:
The most pathetic thing is KLM's press release saying they cannot control their PAX behaviour.

So they don't even apologise or do a more or less neutral press release, but they blame the PAX directly.

Pathetic.

I loved it. Much better than the canned and incensere “we apologize to our customer and strive to do better in the future” you often see from other airlines. Very refreshing! If the passenger is wrong there’s nothing wrong with saying so, and of course KL is right that they can NOT control the behaviour of their pax.
 
petertenthije
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Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:44 am

Is it confirmed yet that none of the flight attendents speak Spanish? It's entirely possible that all of them spoke basic Spanish, but if the passenger has a strong accent or speaks a local dialect then all bets are off.
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TOGA10
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Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:44 am

jmmadrid wrote:
Amsterdam wrote:

Dutch people dont speak Spanish.
Almost all KLM FAs are Dutch.


In this day and age, such lack of diversity in a "global" airline is an embarrasing weakness.

As I said before, even a cheap and disgusting airline like Ryanair try to roster some crew members that speak "some" basic Spanish on their flights to/from Spain. I haven't flown them between other third countries so I do not know if this is a rule.

Do KLM have the same policy -Dutch-and-English-language-speaking dutch cabin crew- on their flights to Japan and China? If so, good luck -market wise- with a flight full of chinese or japanese passengers with no staff that can speak their language.

Makes me wonder how many carriers flying into AMS have Dutch speaking FA's. My guess is not that many.
On that note, not taking sides, but in Spain, even ATC is not great in English, so I do wonder about the IB cabin crew level of English.
Good luck KL, but I'm afraid you can't win the internet this time.
Love flying, hate the alarm at 3 in the morning, love watching the sun rise at 5:30. It's all about compromises.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:45 am

CDGIAD wrote:
Obviously we don't have all facts here.
But I agree that Spanish usually make no effort to try to speak/understand any English unless they really can speak it.
They always talk to you in Spanish first.
I'm French so I can understand a bit but they make no effort to speak slower.
In any case they seem even worse than French when it comes to dealing with the fact not everybody speaks Spanish.


:lol: Well you must understand that French usually make no effort to try to speak/understand any English. To make things worse, many French speak an unintelligible English.
 
CDGIAD
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Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:58 am

SCQ83 wrote:
CDGIAD wrote:
Obviously we don't have all facts here.
But I agree that Spanish usually make no effort to try to speak/understand any English unless they really can speak it.
They always talk to you in Spanish first.
I'm French so I can understand a bit but they make no effort to speak slower.
In any case they seem even worse than French when it comes to dealing with the fact not everybody speaks Spanish.


:lol: Well you must understand that French usually make no effort to try to speak/understand any English. To make things worse, many French speak an unintelligible English.


Well sorry to disagree.
Outside Paris/touristic spots, French are indeed so bad at speaking English and I regret that, but from my experience in Madrid city center, flying IB and at MAD airport, I've encountered many people who made no effort to speak English.
That's not the case in Paris or at CDG.
 
SCQ83
Topic Author
Posts: 4560
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:09 am

VSMUT wrote:
[I have had more Spanish passengers arrested than any other nationality combined.


Where are you from? You seem to have an extraordinary anti-Spanish bias.

I wonder if you are German. I am always and only mistreated in German airports. German security personnel, custom and migration officers usually are not the sharpest knives in the drawer.
 
aircatalonia
Posts: 574
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:50 pm

Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:16 am

Rude monolingual Spaniards becoming aggressive when nobody speaks their language, what a surprise.
 
aircatalonia
Posts: 574
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:50 pm

Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:16 am

Rude monolingual Spaniards becoming aggressive when nobody speaks their language, what a surprise.
 
Kadish
Posts: 254
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:36 am

Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:45 am

VSMUT wrote:
arcticcruiser wrote:
And there we have it. I wonder why I have always felt the Dutch to be on the arrogant side...


Based on my own experience, Spanish passengers are the most rude and arrogant passengers I have flown with, right up there with the Italians. It really doesn't help that they all think their own particular second-rate language is the primary language of the entire world - and that goes for ATC as well.

On the contrary, KLM crews have always been nice and pleasant.


Maybe ur experience Is based on nothing..its like saying that all people from Amsterdam smoke dope and eat mushrooms...
Please do spanish people a favour and dont come to spain so u will not be offended...and tell this to your polite friends.

Another carrier to avoid.
 
Kadish
Posts: 254
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:36 am

Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:52 am

SCQ83 wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
[I have had more Spanish passengers arrested than any other nationality combined.


Where are you from? You seem to have an extraordinary anti-Spanish bias.

I wonder if you are German. I am always and only mistreated in German airports. German security personnel, custom and migration officers usually are not the sharpest knives in the drawer.


Maybe the guy misses the old times and having anti xxx bias runs in his veins .
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 7560
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:05 pm

aircatalonia wrote:
Rude monolingual Spaniards becoming aggressive when nobody speaks their language, what a surprise.


Compares to rude monolingual English, French and German speakers. Those uneducated louts often speak only there own language and you can hit heavy dialects.

The astonishing point is that it should have happened on a KLM frame. I have not met a Dutchman yet not speaking a foreign language, often more that one. I would have expected a KLM flight to Spain having a Spanish speaker on board.

There is a joke about that guy explaining to a Dutchman or Flemings, that he speaks six languages and instead of astonishment, he gets a me to.

There is of course the problem with elderly Spanish citizen, that not everybody speaks Spanish well. Their main language could be Catalan, Galician or even Occitan.
Somebody speaking Galician would have better understanding with somebody rather speaking Portuguese than Spanish.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:51 pm

Let us have fun posting as enthusiasts.

Posting flamebait comments violates rule 1d3 and 4. If the post is rude to a user (e.g., degenerating a large group), it violates the sub-rules of 1d.
There will be bans if this keeps up.

Forum moderator Lightsaber
You only have the first amendment with the 2nd. If you're not going to offend someone with what you say, you don't have the 1st.
 
SCQ83
Topic Author
Posts: 4560
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:01 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
There is of course the problem with elderly Spanish citizen, that not everybody speaks Spanish well. Their main language could be Catalan, Galician or even Occitan.
Somebody speaking Galician would have better understanding with somebody rather speaking Portuguese than Spanish.


Unfortunately languages are used as political weapons today.

For instance whenever I go to Portugal I usually end up speaking English. I usually speak Spanish/Galician straightforward (I find it stupid to speak English when Portuguese/Galician/Spanish are about 90% similar) but I notice a lot of people don't like it (particularly young Portuguese people when I speak Spanish). I reckon they need think "just another Spaniard who doesn't speak English and that thinks we need to know Spanish when nobody in Spain speaks Portuguese" :D (which is true).

On the other hand, when I was in Brazil I was pleasantly surprised I could use Galician anywhere (even in supermarkets or street vendors which very unlikely took foreign language courses) and people would understand and replied me in (Brazilian) Portuguese without any hassle.

So understanding another language very often is in the ear of the beholder.
 
airbuster
Posts: 343
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 12:43 am

Re: Elderly couple kicked off of KLM AMS-MAD flight

Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:15 pm

jmmadrid wrote:
Amsterdam wrote:

Dutch people dont speak Spanish.
Almost all KLM FAs are Dutch.


In this day and age, such lack of diversity in a "global" airline is an embarrasing weakness.

As I said before, even a cheap and disgusting airline like Ryanair try to roster some crew members that speak "some" basic Spanish on their flights to/from Spain. I haven't flown them between other third countries so I do not know if this is a rule.

Do KLM have the same policy -Dutch-and-English-language-speaking dutch cabin crew- on their flights to Japan and China? If so, good luck -market wise- with a flight full of chinese or japanese passengers with no staff that can speak their language.


KLM pays their FA’s a premium on top of the basic salary if they complete approved foreign language courses. So they do invest directly. Regarding the situation; I wasn’t there. It’s his word against his word. All I can say is that there will always be some bad characters as passengers and rotten apples as employees in any people business.
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