buzzard302 wrote:

FatCat wrote:

buzzard302 wrote:

It was a service dog that left the mess. I generally look at the seat/area before I sit. Why would anyone sit down into a soiled seat? And Delta should have halted boarding and cleaned that crap up before proceeding. No excuse.

Hmm may I doubt that?
Service dogs are so well trained that I find very hard to believe that one of them crapped on the seat / carpet.
Being a dog or a human, a plane has to be decent before the flight - it's not a public phone booth or a subway wagon or an outskirt bus, come on

All news articles are reporting that it was dog feces. I'm with you on the service dog behavior. Perhaps it was an "emotional support dog" with less training or predictable behavior. In any case, it's just ridiculous that Delta wouldn't handle this quickly and appropriately. Most likely the whole thing could have been resolved in 20 minutes without much harm to anyone.

So the person who owned the dog didn't notice that the dog did a number 2?

Totally unacceptable on Delta's part. If it was me and they didn't resolve it, I would refuse to take the flight and have Delta put me up overnight in Atlanta and fly out the next day. If they would refuse I would pick up the phone to the FAA Air Carrier District Office in Atlanta and complain that Delta was flying an unsafe aircraft with a biohazard problem.

Delta is getting the crappy PR for this, and rightly so.

But the bigger issue is the ESA problem. I will say it, ESAs are an overreach imposed by the DOT rules. It may be harsh, but if you can’t fly without Fido, you need to take another form of transportation. The rules need to change.

Really Gross treatment by Delta. I usually like Delta, but airlines in the U.S. seem to be getting more militant. We def. need a passenger or customer service bill of right for U.S. travelers. Merger have diminished quality customer service in the United States.

When an older person had an accident on the inbound leg of my B6 PHX-BOS flight back in August*, they canceled the flight because it' was it was after midnight and they couldn't get a special cleaning crew to come and decontaminate the plane. That's the correct if unpleasant action for a matter of this nature. Furthermore as it was in ATL, it shouldn't have been too difficult to swap aircraft..

*Due to severe storms the JFK-PHX leg had been ground delayed for 2 hours and then had to take a longer route (The inbound BOS-PHX flight that night actually had to divert to ABQ for fuel) and the flight was rough so the pax were made to stay in their seats the entire flight, as such I can't be mad at an older person who couldn't move without assistance, having a "Blow Out" after being forced to sit in an turbulant airplane seat with no relieve for 7+ hours.

And I thought the middle seat in a 10 abreast 777 was a sh1t seat...

CALTECH wrote:

Not saying it didn't happen but all I know, is when a issue like this happens for us, we call out the cleaners to clean and disinfect the area and change out anything that smells or looks soiled, seatbelts, seat cushions, cushion covers etc., whether it is waste or some spilled Sprite. Our Flight Attendants and Cleaners call us out to fix these issues.
With moving so many people all day, incidents do happen, and rarely they could have been handled better.
Especially at a hub, something seems out of whack with this story.
Could understand this type of event maybe happening at a outstation, but a hub ?

When I used to work for Delta at a relatively small station, we always had spare seat cushions for each type of seat. In addition to seat belts. Sometimes, the material did not match the rest of the seat, but at least it was clean. There is absolutely no way that they would not have spare seat cushions in ATL. This is disgusting.

I usually have a strong stomach. But I can only imagine the total discomfort - for hours - of this poor gentleman. And the stench for him and the other passengers nearby. Very bad indeed on Delta's part. Where was the captain in all this? And why would absolutely nobody accept any responsibility on Delta's part? In addition, it seems like the gentleman in question acted more than reasonably. I feel very badly for him indeed.

Our local transit company gives better service. If there is any kind of mess on a bus, it is either taken out of service and customers put on the next bus, or the operator radios ahead for a cleanup crew at the next possible stop, and it is dealt with almost immediately.

Try as I am, I can see absolutely no reason to absolve Delta, or the agents and crew, of wrong doing in this issue. I am usually pretty forgiving, but firing of a few employees in this case comes immediately to mind. No excuse whatsoever for this situation to have played out the way it did.

Before I get ripped into, let me first put out a crystal clear disclaimer that I find the situation the passenger was faced with to be not only gross but unhealthy. Additionally, while we have only heard one side of the customer service part of this story, based on everything we know Delta employees certainly had an obligation to act in a far more professional and compassionate manner.

Having said that, from a strictly operational standpoint, there may be some facts that caused the situation to deteriorate the way it did, and the airplane to push on time. Being that it was the last flight of the night, it could very well be that the crew may have been in danger of timing out, with the prospect of not having an available crew on reserve to operate the flight. This could have caused the cancellation of the flight and displacement of 190+/- passengers. Additionally, even if the crew was not facing a duty day time out, they may have had a minimum layover and a delay would cause a late departure the next morning. Again, to be absolutely clear, Delta should have handled this situation completely differently than they did, especially since the contamination occurred on the inbound flight allowing for a proactive response.

My biggest question is what does the passenger hope to get out of bringing this matter to the attention of the media? Is he looking for additional compensation (which would not be unreasonable)? Or is he looking to use this disgusting experience as a platform to campaign for change in the regulations similar to the tarmac delay rule? Having looked at his Facebook account, it seems he is a good guy with a number of good causes that he supports. Similar to an aircraft accident, there are always lessons to be learned and almost always changes brought about. My hope is that this will serve to improve the overall treatment of passengers and put minimum standards in place for safely operating an aircraft from a customer comfort point of view. In fact in my opinion the best way for Delta to save face and make this right would be to introduce policies to improve the overall experience and prevent these types of events from happening again.

If mgmt decides that the flight has to go, remove the seat cushions and take the seat out of service. Buy another pax out. Even if it costs $1000 to convince someone to fly in the morning. Never do you make somebody choose to fly in dog poop or not fly.

Thread blown way out proportion.

Atlwarrior wrote:

Thread blown way out proportion.

Some bias there I feel?

Service animals will always take a dump. Suppose the previous passenger "cleaned it". You're still sitting in crap. It's very hard to kill bacteria and virtually impossible to kill viruses. Aircraft are giant petri dishes. We need to start demanding that airlines be sanitary. Not a single airline is even remotely close to sanitary. Nothing is stopping them from designing replaceable seat covers or washing down every surface with clorox. Right now, if someone vomits, they merely dry it with towels and use air freshener. The vomit is still causing a massive exposure to gut bacteria and mold in the carpet. We demand that doctors clean their instruments yet we tolerate airplane filfth.

tsbooker wrote:

Before I get ripped into, let me first put out a crystal clear disclaimer that I find the situation the passenger was faced with to be not only gross but unhealthy. Additionally, while we have only heard one side of the customer service part of this story, based on everything we know Delta employees certainly had an obligation to act in a far more professional and compassionate manner.

Having said that, from a strictly operational standpoint, there may be some facts that caused the situation to deteriorate the way it did, and the airplane to push on time. Being that it was the last flight of the night, it could very well be that the crew may have been in danger of timing out, with the prospect of not having an available crew on reserve to operate the flight. This could have caused the cancellation of the flight and displacement of 190+/- passengers. Additionally, even if the crew was not facing a duty day time out, they may have had a minimum layover and a delay would cause a late departure the next morning. Again, to be absolutely clear, Delta should have handled this situation completely differently than they did, especially since the contamination occurred on the inbound flight allowing for a proactive response.

My biggest question is what does the passenger hope to get out of bringing this matter to the attention of the media? Is he looking for additional compensation (which would not be unreasonable)? Or is he looking to use this disgusting experience as a platform to campaign for change in the regulations similar to the tarmac delay rule? Having looked at his Facebook account, it seems he is a good guy with a number of good causes that he supports. Similar to an aircraft accident, there are always lessons to be learned and almost always changes brought about. My hope is that this will serve to improve the overall treatment of passengers and put minimum standards in place for safely operating an aircraft from a customer comfort point of view. In fact in my opinion the best way for Delta to save face and make this right would be to introduce policies to improve the overall experience and prevent these types of events from happening again.

Do any of those operational considerations even matter? The argument should stop at "unhealthy". I think airlines ought to be sued for their unhealthy practices such as exposing us to MRSA and exotic bacteria/viruses. Cruise ships go to great lengths to stop noroviruses. Airlines will let people with flesh eating diseases onboard or the flu without any care. I get sick all the time from flying and its always from unhealthy people with illnesses.

Atlwarrior wrote:

Thread blown way out proportion.

No it's not. Delta needs to be raked over the coals for unsanitary, unhealthy practices. They had a chance to cancel the flight.

I was on a Jetstar flight in Singapore and someone vomited on the plane shortly after everyone boarded. The pilot de-boarded the whole plane and sent in the cleaning crews. Thirty minutes later the plane was cleaned up and we boarded again. Jetstar an LCC, not even a full service carrier like Delta!

Atlwarrior wrote:

Thread blown way out proportion.

You seriously must be joking mate. Put yourself in that gentleman's situation. Try sitting in stinking dog shit for two hours, with caked shit on your own pants and ankles. And having to pay $$$ for the privilege.

DL has to pay BIG compensation money, punish the culprits and MORE IMPORTANTLY change internal guidance so that something like this never has to happen again. Hopefully, on a much bigger scale, this incident will aid the birth of some form of stricter legislation for airlines to provide a healthier environment for their PAYING CUSTOMERS.

Atlwarrior wrote:

Thread blown way out proportion.

Are you posting this simply because its Delta?

It this were AA, or UA I think you would feel differently and I get it, I hate when UA is in the news because one, two or three employees screwed up and now the entire airline is skewered in the media and here on A.netters. This looks like on-time departure took priority over a customers concerns and again I understand it. I understand the operational impact delays have on the overall operation I understand that even at a hub like ATL crews time out, reserves may have been limited, there may not have been any aircraft swaps available. None of that matters when you are talking about having a passenger sit in a seat where the floor and part of the seat bottom is covered in dog excrement. That is an unhealthy, unsanitary situation and it should have been cleaned, instead a DL employee told the passenger to sit in the seat or take the next flight.

I have said before and still maintain that Delta is probably hoping an election day news cycle will keep this story down. Although USA Today, CNBC, and LA Times have picked up the story in the last 24 hours. Delta seems to be doubling down on minimizing the incident.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/06/delta-p ... plane.html

In a statement to CNBC, the airline apologized for the incident and said, "Delta has issued a refund and additional compensation to the customer impacted by this incident. The safety and health of our customers and employees is our top priority, and we are conducting a full investigation while following up with the right teams to prevent this from happening again. Upon landing in Miami, the aircraft was taken out of service to be deep cleaned and further disinfected."

Atlwarrior wrote:

Thread blown way out proportion.

Nope. Totally justified. I'll say this again. Silver Medallion about to be Gold Medallion. Huge Delta Fanboy, and I still think this is despicable. Delta owes some people quite a bit of money. 50K miles should be the icing on the cake, not the cake itself.

peanuts wrote:

FlightLevel360 wrote:

Aircraft was N335DN. Not an old A321 by any means.

Please provide seat number...Thank you!


This story is disgusting. This is all on Delta. (trickle down management...let's be honest)

This gives a new meaning to the expression "trickle down management". Maybe they could put a positive spin on it and start add a new class below economy - "feces class".

Quoting from mm320cap:

It’s very simple. You stop boarding, clear the area of customers, and delay the flight until an appropriate hazmat cleanup can occur. Just deferring the seat is not acceptable as this is a health issue.

I know if I (as a Captain) had been informed of this situation, the plane wouldn’t move until it had been appropriately cleaned. I’m assuming the Delta pilots involved hadn’t been made aware of what was going on. If they had and pressed on anyway, well....

And shame on whoever owned that dog that didn’t report the issue to the inbound crew.[/quote]

I agree with you 100%.

At the least this should have been called into ops and they should have been prepared. When I was I ops at PSP for SkyWest we had a few extra seat cushions when we handled UA mainline. I actually swapped out a seat cushion due to a 'wet' accident from the previous passsenger. This sounds like one of those stories you couldn't believe until you saw it.

If the FA response was as stated, well it just is flat out wrong. Take the initiative to get the ball rolling to fix it. Not asking that the FA clean it up but to shrug it off and knowing in this day and age what happens in these situations you'd think they would really consider how would this look. Then maybe common sense will take over and work towards a solution.

Ask for volunteers then involuntary denied boarding wouldnt work as the smell alone would probably get several that want off.

Sad situation for Delta. Seems like every airline gets their turn at these kind of pr nightmares

questions wrote:

JHwk wrote:

Makes me think of my flight yesterday HNL-LAX with the stench of urine in first...

Obviously wafting from economy.

No probably the 80 year old rich flyer that buys cheap medical supplies.

buzzard302 wrote:

FatCat wrote:

buzzard302 wrote:

It was a service dog that left the mess. I generally look at the seat/area before I sit. Why would anyone sit down into a soiled seat? And Delta should have halted boarding and cleaned that crap up before proceeding. No excuse.

Hmm may I doubt that?
Service dogs are so well trained that I find very hard to believe that one of them crapped on the seat / carpet.
Being a dog or a human, a plane has to be decent before the flight - it's not a public phone booth or a subway wagon or an outskirt bus, come on

All news articles are reporting that it was dog feces. I'm with you on the service dog behavior. Perhaps it was an "emotional support dog" with less training or predictable behavior. In any case, it's just ridiculous that Delta wouldn't handle this quickly and appropriately. Most likely the whole thing could have been resolved in 20 minutes without much harm to anyone.

Yes Delta is at fualt for letting it get this far. But a note: Emotional support dogs don't really get any training (other than customers) unlike Service dogs. There is a huge difference.

If he sat in it he is a fool. I would have created a major fuss and left the plane. Even as a passenger in the adjacent seat I would have walked off. The airline should find out who occupied the seat prior (perhaps an emotional support animal) as someone mentioned. Not to blame an animal, but it could have beenn human.

Unfortunately there are non-humans that work at ALL US of these airlines...its a shame that no matter how burnt out they cannot empathize with passengers in such situations.

evank516 wrote:

Atlwarrior wrote:

Thread blown way out proportion.

Nope. Totally justified. I'll say this again. Silver Medallion about to be Gold Medallion. Huge Delta Fanboy, and I still think this is despicable. Delta owes some people quite a bit of money. 50K miles should be the icing on the cake, not the cake itself.

So, if the person affected was a Nothing Medallion, would they also be entitled to complain, or only Silver so to be Gold Medallion status or Unobtainium Medallion pax be entitled to complain about this?

I have to say, this is pretty gross. I wouldn't sit on that seat - I'd rather be dragged off the plane by my ear and with a bloodied face than sit on a soiled seat.

Why would someone agree to sit in that seat?

DFW17L wrote:

Why would someone agree to sit in that seat?

Because many passengers don't understand their rights and they are afraid if they stand up for themselves while physically onboard an aircraft law enforcement will be called out to the aircraft. If this situation had happen anywhere but onboard an aircraft the outcome would have been different the customer would not have just sat down and taken it they would have demanded something be done. Something changes the moment people board an aircraft and most people once onboard will comply with all lighted signs, placards, and all crew member instructions.

“Keep Climbing” (maybe then you won’t have to sit in it). “Good Goes Around” (that doesn’t look like good). “On top of the World” (more like on top of the seat).

I don't think I've ever seen one of these PR stories where someone didn't take the side of the airline. You know it is bad when no one is defending the airline.

AFAIK there were more feces on the floor near the bottom of the seat and he stepped in it and it got in his pants leg and ankle. There could have been additional in the crack of the seat. Perhaps the prior passenger bought a seat for the pet and the carrier (which could not contain the feces) spent time on the floor as well as the seat cushion.

cpd wrote:

evank516 wrote:

Atlwarrior wrote:

Thread blown way out proportion.

Nope. Totally justified. I'll say this again. Silver Medallion about to be Gold Medallion. Huge Delta Fanboy, and I still think this is despicable. Delta owes some people quite a bit of money. 50K miles should be the icing on the cake, not the cake itself.

So, if the person affected was a Nothing Medallion, would they also be entitled to complain, or only Silver so to be Gold Medallion status or Unobtainium Medallion pax be entitled to complain about this?

I have to say, this is pretty gross. I wouldn't sit on that seat - I'd rather be dragged off the plane by my ear and with a bloodied face than sit on a soiled seat.

I think you misunderstood evank526's point - I read it as despite himself (ie evank516) being a huge Delta fanboy, and almost a Gold Medallion member, he thinks it's despicable, not that the Pax in question should only be allowed to complain as he (the Pax) was a medallion member.

If this were allegiant, wow, or Norweigan people would go nuts. Note this was delta airlines.

The crew clearly has set metrics for on time departures and they chose that over helping clean up a mess. At a point the crew should have cleaned this up if there cleaners wouldn't , handing the passenger towels is a joke.

I had a simikar situation on United airlines once, fortunately I was able to move seats but the plane still stunk. I wrote to united got abform letter generic we are sorry , no one ever read it or cares.

It seems US airlines do generally have a bit of a problem when it comes to their treatment of passengers, especially the attitude of cabin crew. If you don't immediately do as they say then they're going to do something bad to you. I've seen this myself actually on AA, where the crew totally overreacted during a disagreement between two people about who got a row of empty middle seats to sleep on - threatening the woman in a very exaggerated way and escalating way too quickly. In some ways they see themselves as police with unlimited authority and anyone that disagrees with them is considered a threat to world peace.

In other countries the cabin crew are generally a lot more polite - they insist on you doing what you're told, but they do it in a very polite way and don't needlessly become aggressive and angry. Often I've been really impressed by BA cabin crew that were dealing with difficult passengers - I was left wondering if they trained them to be so patient or whether they just choose really patient and persuasive people.

Bhoy wrote:

cpd wrote:

evank516 wrote:

Nope. Totally justified. I'll say this again. Silver Medallion about to be Gold Medallion. Huge Delta Fanboy, and I still think this is despicable. Delta owes some people quite a bit of money. 50K miles should be the icing on the cake, not the cake itself.

So, if the person affected was a Nothing Medallion, would they also be entitled to complain, or only Silver so to be Gold Medallion status or Unobtainium Medallion pax be entitled to complain about this?

I have to say, this is pretty gross. I wouldn't sit on that seat - I'd rather be dragged off the plane by my ear and with a bloodied face than sit on a soiled seat.

I think you misunderstood evank526's point - I read it as despite himself (ie evank516) being a huge Delta fanboy, and almost a Gold Medallion member, he thinks it's despicable, not that the Pax in question should only be allowed to complain as he (the Pax) was a medallion member.

Bhoy's interpretation of my post was spot on.

LAXLHR wrote:

If he sat in it he is a fool. I would have created a major fuss and left the plane. Even as a passenger in the adjacent seat I would have walked off. The airline should find out who occupied the seat prior (perhaps an emotional support animal) as someone mentioned. Not to blame an animal, but it could have beenn human.

Unfortunately there are non-humans that work at ALL US of these airlines...its a shame that no matter how burnt out they cannot empathize with passengers in such situations.

The article I read said that he had some sort of important business meeting to attend and that plane was the only way to get there in time. I have to assume that that was the only open seat left. Depending on the dollar amounts involved I could understand taking the seat once it was "cleaned".

The whole situation does boggle the mind, though. Some heads need to be knocked together, hard.

peterinlisbon wrote:

It seems US airlines do generally have a bit of a problem when it comes to their treatment of passengers, especially the attitude of cabin crew. If you don't immediately do as they say then they're going to do something bad to you. I've seen this myself actually on AA, where the crew totally overreacted during a disagreement between two people about who got a row of empty middle seats to sleep on - threatening the woman in a very exaggerated way and escalating way too quickly. In some ways they see themselves as police with unlimited authority and anyone that disagrees with them is considered a threat to world peace.

In other countries the cabin crew are generally a lot more polite - they insist on you doing what you're told, but they do it in a very polite way and don't needlessly become aggressive and angry. Often I've been really impressed by BA cabin crew that were dealing with difficult passengers - I was left wondering if they trained them to be so patient or whether they just choose really patient and persuasive people.

Your generalization is just way too broad. Check the recent KLM thread.
This is not a US vs. World issue.

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:

If this were allegiant, wow, or Norweigan people would go nuts. Note this was delta airlines/

With the exception of one or two posts, every single post in this thread has been rightly critical of DL, so I'm not sure why you seem to suggest that people are giving the airline a pass here.

I think there's more here than meets the eye. A number of parts of this aren't all that plausible (for example, the cabin crew, the captain, and the manager all thinking that this plane should move as-is). I doubt we'll ever know what it was.

Most of this thread is just noise, though.

How nobody saw or smelled this before boarding really surprises me. You know when a dog drops a duce, it reeks over a large area. Dont they have turn cleaners that come in and tidy up the cabin before they board? How did nobody notice. Something does not seem to add up here.

peterinlisbon wrote:

It seems US airlines do generally have a bit of a problem when it comes to their treatment of passengers, especially the attitude of cabin crew. If you don't immediately do as they say then they're going to do something bad to you. I've seen this myself actually on AA, where the crew totally overreacted during a disagreement between two people about who got a row of empty middle seats to sleep on - threatening the woman in a very exaggerated way and escalating way too quickly. In some ways they see themselves as police with unlimited authority and anyone that disagrees with them is considered a threat to world peace.

In other countries the cabin crew are generally a lot more polite - they insist on you doing what you're told, but they do it in a very polite way and don't needlessly become aggressive and angry. Often I've been really impressed by BA cabin crew that were dealing with difficult passengers - I was left wondering if they trained them to be so patient or whether they just choose really patient and persuasive people.

This is true. Cabin Crew on foreign airlines is much less militant. US carriers need to teach their staff not to escalate situations so quickly. Cabin crew should not act like a police force. It seems US carriers have lost the ability to treat people like humans when issues arise. It is sad that Delta staff were so inept in dealing with this situation. There would have been many solutions that did not involve demeaning a passenger. Maybe they need to bring in cabin crew from abroad to train their employees.

Is this not a public health issue? I mean, come on ...
I have been railing for years about how airlines treat people on the ground, but usually once you're on the plane it's OK (except for the guy that got beat up and dragged from the United flight). Now this ...

Pi7472000 wrote:

peterinlisbon wrote:

It seems US airlines do generally have a bit of a problem when it comes to their treatment of passengers, especially the attitude of cabin crew. If you don't immediately do as they say then they're going to do something bad to you. I've seen this myself actually on AA, where the crew totally overreacted during a disagreement between two people about who got a row of empty middle seats to sleep on - threatening the woman in a very exaggerated way and escalating way too quickly. In some ways they see themselves as police with unlimited authority and anyone that disagrees with them is considered a threat to world peace.

In other countries the cabin crew are generally a lot more polite - they insist on you doing what you're told, but they do it in a very polite way and don't needlessly become aggressive and angry. Often I've been really impressed by BA cabin crew that were dealing with difficult passengers - I was left wondering if they trained them to be so patient or whether they just choose really patient and persuasive people.

This is true. Cabin Crew on foreign airlines is much less militant. US carriers need to teach their staff not to escalate situations so quickly. Cabin crew should not act like a police force. It seems US carriers have lost the ability to treat people like humans when issues arise. It is sad that Delta staff were so inept in dealing with this situation. There would have been many solutions that did not involve demeaning a passenger. Maybe they need to bring in cabin crew from abroad to train their employees.

Again, this is simply not true. You too are generalizing an entire population group from a specific country. This is pure nonsense and should be banned from these threads.

travaz wrote:

That's what happens when the emotion support dog issue continues to plague the industry

The airlines should just adopt ADA like those of us in the motorcoach industry have and only accept service animals.

Pi7472000 wrote:

peterinlisbon wrote:

It seems US airlines do generally have a bit of a problem when it comes to their treatment of passengers, especially the attitude of cabin crew. If you don't immediately do as they say then they're going to do something bad to you. I've seen this myself actually on AA, where the crew totally overreacted during a disagreement between two people about who got a row of empty middle seats to sleep on - threatening the woman in a very exaggerated way and escalating way too quickly. In some ways they see themselves as police with unlimited authority and anyone that disagrees with them is considered a threat to world peace.

In other countries the cabin crew are generally a lot more polite - they insist on you doing what you're told, but they do it in a very polite way and don't needlessly become aggressive and angry. Often I've been really impressed by BA cabin crew that were dealing with difficult passengers - I was left wondering if they trained them to be so patient or whether they just choose really patient and persuasive people.

This is true. Cabin Crew on foreign airlines is much less militant. US carriers need to teach their staff not to escalate situations so quickly. Cabin crew should not act like a police force. It seems US carriers have lost the ability to treat people like humans when issues arise. It is sad that Delta staff were so inept in dealing with this situation. There would have been many solutions that did not involve demeaning a passenger. Maybe they need to bring in cabin crew from abroad to train their employees.

Petty people with petty powers.

We need to change the CFR that requires "crewmember compliance". Or at least rewrite it to limit the coverage of this CFR to only a handful of activities.

crj900lr wrote:

How nobody saw or smelled this before boarding really surprises me. You know when a dog drops a duce, it reeks over a large area. Dont they have turn cleaners that come in and tidy up the cabin before they board? How did nobody notice. Something does not seem to add up here.

Not all airlines do and very few do it at airports they do not have operations at. Flight attendants *might* pick up cups and junk food wrappers but that is about it. Airplanes are rarely ever "cleaned", which is why they are petri dishes. I've seen soiled seats remain soiled even after cleaners did their cleaning. Flight attendants don't do a very good job cleaning and neither do cleaners. They are under time constraints. The most cleaning that is ever done is vacuuming. If it were me, every seat would have to be immaculately wiped down with clorox wipes. Airplanes are extremely unsanitary to epic proportions. Look at all the independent analysis done of bacteria and viruses on board. "Cleaning" an airplane would take at least 2 hours per takeoff/touchdown cycle. Therefore, airplanes are never actually sanitary.

peterinlisbon wrote:

It seems US airlines do generally have a bit of a problem when it comes to their treatment of passengers, especially the attitude of cabin crew. If you don't immediately do as they say then they're going to do something bad to you. I've seen this myself actually on AA, where the crew totally overreacted during a disagreement between two people about who got a row of empty middle seats to sleep on - threatening the woman in a very exaggerated way and escalating way too quickly. In some ways they see themselves as police with unlimited authority and anyone that disagrees with them is considered a threat to world peace.

In other countries the cabin crew are generally a lot more polite - they insist on you doing what you're told, but they do it in a very polite way and don't needlessly become aggressive and angry. Often I've been really impressed by BA cabin crew that were dealing with difficult passengers - I was left wondering if they trained them to be so patient or whether they just choose really patient and persuasive people.

People need to start calling 911 on flight attendants. That's probably the only way to restore the balance of power. No civilian has authority over another but they seem to think "crewmember compliance" means they can do whatever they want. One of the best things to do is file a police report if they get abusive, call 911, don't talk to them at all, walk off the plane, talk to airport police to file charges (if they get physical or abusive), and use social media. Don't bother talking to gate agents or some other middle manager. They are all there to diffuse their own culpability and to keep the airline from legal trouble. No one is really there to help the passenger. So, it's best not to play their game. Use the legal system and the court of public opinion.

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:

If this were allegiant, wow, or Norweigan people would go nuts. Note this was delta airlines.

The crew clearly has set metrics for on time departures and they chose that over helping clean up a mess. At a point the crew should have cleaned this up if there cleaners wouldn't , handing the passenger towels is a joke.

I had a simikar situation on United airlines once, fortunately I was able to move seats but the plane still stunk. I wrote to united got abform letter generic we are sorry , no one ever read it or cares.

Yeah.. don't bother to address it with airlines. You'll only get form letter apologies, weak "fly on us" future miles, or counterattacks.

Use the legal system and use social media to tell the facts.

Airlines only understand lawsuits and impact to bottom line.

Bald1983 wrote:

Two points: One. The ONLY animals that should be allowed in the passenger cabin are service dogs, such as seeing eye dogs. Emotional service peacocks, etc., should be banned, across the bird. If you cannot fly without your peacock, don't fly.

According to the press reports, the feces in this incident did not come from a peacock, but rather a dog. And it *was* a service dog, not an emotional support animal. So why are you bringing up this issue here?

peanuts wrote:

This is true. Cabin Crew on foreign airlines is much less militant. US carriers need to teach their staff not to escalate situations so quickly. Cabin crew should not act like a police force. It seems US carriers have lost the ability to treat people like humans when issues arise. It is sad that Delta staff were so inept in dealing with this situation. There would have been many solutions that did not involve demeaning a passenger. Maybe they need to bring in cabin crew from abroad to train their employees.

Again, this is simply not true. You too are generalizing an entire population group from a specific country. This is pure nonsense and should be banned from these threads.[/quote]

I disagree. On non-US carriers, such as LH or EK, cabin crew generally understand that their jobs have a strong, even predominant, service component. In the US, they are surly and insist they are solely "safety professionals."

Are there exceptions, both inside and outside the US? Of course. It's a big universe.

Reading about the details of this event makes me wonder which relationship is more adversarial?
Airlines vs. Their Employees?
or Airlines vs. Their Customers?
They both seem quite strained and are not limited to one carrier or region.