ryanov
Posts: 84
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 4:38 am

Re: DL Pax Told to Sit in Feces-Stained Seat

Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:02 am

I will say as a Delta Medallion (alternates gold/silver due to rollover miles) -- which I mention not to prove I'm important and should be treated well, but to make it clear I know how Delta operates -- that they under-compensate for problems. However, all you do is say "listen, you gave me 50,000 miles -- here's what happened, that was terrible, please make it right" and I've never had them balk. That's not the best behavior, but it is what it is.

I still find it really hard to believe that no one there could have resolved the problem. "Listen, there's dog waste in our row, we can't be there, what are we going to do?" Telling the passenger to go sit back down is so far off from anything I've ever experienced on board a flight that it's very hard to believe.

As for the anger at the airline, stuff happens. They didn't put the dog on the plane, sounds like the crew attempted to call cleaning people and whatever was supposed to happen did not. The mistake here appears to have been continuing to board, and it's hard to understand why that happened. I would have asked to speak to the captain; also seems implausible to me that a Diamond Medallion wouldn't think of that, but I guess it's very possible that people don't think of this stuff. Maybe they did and it just didn't make the article. But does any pilot reading this think they'd have moved that plane with people on it?

Not sure what the point of going to the media apparently before a second round with the airline is, though.
 
kiowa
Posts: 314
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Re: DL Pax Told to Sit in Feces-Stained Seat

Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:58 pm

How do they know it was canine feces? If someone saw it happen, it should have been taken care of immediately.
 
Bald1983
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Re: DL Pax Told to Sit in Feces-Stained Seat

Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:29 pm

SurlyBonds wrote:
Bald1983 wrote:
Two points: One. The ONLY animals that should be allowed in the passenger cabin are service dogs, such as seeing eye dogs. Emotional service peacocks, etc., should be banned, across the bird. If you cannot fly without your peacock, don't fly.


According to the press reports, the feces in this incident did not come from a peacock, but rather a dog. And it *was* a service dog, not an emotional support animal. So why are you bringing up this issue here?


Because I want to. It is called free speech. If you do not like it, do not read it. My reason, besides I want to, is that people are pushing more and more to allow emotional support animals on board which is going to cause problems.
 
Bald1983
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Re: DL Pax Told to Sit in Feces-Stained Seat

Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:33 pm

ryanov wrote:
I will say as a Delta Medallion (alternates gold/silver due to rollover miles) -- which I mention not to prove I'm important and should be treated well, but to make it clear I know how Delta operates -- that they under-compensate for problems. However, all you do is say "listen, you gave me 50,000 miles -- here's what happened, that was terrible, please make it right" and I've never had them balk. That's not the best behavior, but it is what it is.

I still find it really hard to believe that no one there could have resolved the problem. "Listen, there's dog waste in our row, we can't be there, what are we going to do?" Telling the passenger to go sit back down is so far off from anything I've ever experienced on board a flight that it's very hard to believe.

As for the anger at the airline, stuff happens. They didn't put the dog on the plane, sounds like the crew attempted to call cleaning people and whatever was supposed to happen did not. The mistake here appears to have been continuing to board, and it's hard to understand why that happened. I would have asked to speak to the captain; also seems implausible to me that a Diamond Medallion wouldn't think of that, but I guess it's very possible that people don't think of this stuff. Maybe they did and it just didn't make the article. But does any pilot reading this think they'd have moved that plane with people on it?

Not sure what the point of going to the media apparently before a second round with the airline is, though.


This is not "stuff." This is an unacceptable situation, (Excrement in the seat and on the floor) which the crew decided to say, "This is not my job." What that means is one has an employee culture that does not have the employees take pride in their operations and company. What should have happened is that the Captain should have been informed and the flight delayed until the mess was cleaned up. The Flight Attendants should have been part of that call as well.
 
Bald1983
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Re: DL Pax Told to Sit in Feces-Stained Seat

Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:53 pm

tsbooker wrote:
Before I get ripped into, let me first put out a crystal clear disclaimer that I find the situation the passenger was faced with to be not only gross but unhealthy. Additionally, while we have only heard one side of the customer service part of this story, based on everything we know Delta employees certainly had an obligation to act in a far more professional and compassionate manner.

Having said that, from a strictly operational standpoint, there may be some facts that caused the situation to deteriorate the way it did, and the airplane to push on time. Being that it was the last flight of the night, it could very well be that the crew may have been in danger of timing out, with the prospect of not having an available crew on reserve to operate the flight. This could have caused the cancellation of the flight and displacement of 190+/- passengers. Additionally, even if the crew was not facing a duty day time out, they may have had a minimum layover and a delay would cause a late departure the next morning. Again, to be absolutely clear, Delta should have handled this situation completely differently than they did, especially since the contamination occurred on the inbound flight allowing for a proactive response.

My biggest question is what does the passenger hope to get out of bringing this matter to the attention of the media? Is he looking for additional compensation (which would not be unreasonable)? Or is he looking to use this disgusting experience as a platform to campaign for change in the regulations similar to the tarmac delay rule? Having looked at his Facebook account, it seems he is a good guy with a number of good causes that he supports. Similar to an aircraft accident, there are always lessons to be learned and almost always changes brought about. My hope is that this will serve to improve the overall treatment of passengers and put minimum standards in place for safely operating an aircraft from a customer comfort point of view. In fact in my opinion the best way for Delta to save face and make this right would be to introduce policies to improve the overall experience and prevent these types of events from happening again.


This flight should have been held until it was cleaned. If the crew timed out, they time out. No plane should depart with excrement in the seat and on the floor, period. It is a health issue and a customer service issue.
 
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OA412
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Re: DL Pax Told to Sit in Feces-Stained Seat

Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:56 pm

Bald1983 wrote:
SurlyBonds wrote:
Bald1983 wrote:
Two points: One. The ONLY animals that should be allowed in the passenger cabin are service dogs, such as seeing eye dogs. Emotional service peacocks, etc., should be banned, across the bird. If you cannot fly without your peacock, don't fly.


According to the press reports, the feces in this incident did not come from a peacock, but rather a dog. And it *was* a service dog, not an emotional support animal. So why are you bringing up this issue here?


Because I want to. It is called free speech. If you do not like it, do not read it. My reason, besides I want to, is that people are pushing more and more to allow emotional support animals on board which is going to cause problems.

That's not how free speech works. This is a private website and is not under any obligation to uphold the 1st Amendment to the United States Constitution. Second, he's right, this has nothing to do with emotional support animals. Bringing up emotional support animals only muddies the waters. Service animals are regulated under the ADA. People with a registered service animal are allowed to bring them on board an aircraft. The dog apparently because sick, which is unfortunate, but it happens. How DL handled it (extremely poorly IMHO) is another matter. However, this has nothing to do with an emotional support peacock or whatever.
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aloha73g
Posts: 1904
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Re: DL Pax Told to Sit in Feces-Stained Seat

Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:13 pm

When I was a flight attendant for Hawaiian we kept replacement seat cushions on board so we could quickly swap them out (velcro magic!) if someone had an accident. It happened a couple times when someone had an accident or a beverage got spilled, but it was a quick cushion swap with the dirty one placed in a trash bag & stowed until we returned to HNL.

I generally find DL employees to be great, but the pilots, F/As and ground staff involved in this should all be written up and sent to some training at a minimum. Sounds like they all just wanted to "go" instead of solving the problem. This is unacceptable and inexcusable.

-Aloha!
Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
 
kiowa
Posts: 314
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:37 am

Re: DL Pax Told to Sit in Feces-Stained Seat

Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:52 pm

If they “knew” it was from a service animal them someone saw it happen. Someone then ignored it and boarded the aircraft. Someone also ignored it when they cleaned the aircraft prior to boarding. Pretty stinky job by several Delta employees.
 
IPFreely
Posts: 2063
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:26 am

Re: DL Pax Told to Sit in Feces-Stained Seat

Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:57 pm

Bald1983 wrote:
This flight should have been held until it was cleaned. If the crew timed out, they time out. No plane should depart with excrement in the seat and on the floor, period. It is a health issue and a customer service issue.


I believe there was a post awhile ago about a flight in Phoenix that was significantly delayed for sanitizing when an inbound passenger created a similar situation. But we're talking about Delta here. Their "mainline only", "days in a row", and "completion factor" statistics are far more important to them than delaying a flight to deal with a biohazard.
 
Bald1983
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Re: DL Pax Told to Sit in Feces-Stained Seat

Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:27 pm

OA412 wrote:
Bald1983 wrote:
SurlyBonds wrote:

According to the press reports, the feces in this incident did not come from a peacock, but rather a dog. And it *was* a service dog, not an emotional support animal. So why are you bringing up this issue here?


Because I want to. It is called free speech. If you do not like it, do not read it. My reason, besides I want to, is that people are pushing more and more to allow emotional support animals on board which is going to cause problems.

That's not how free speech works. This is a private website and is not under any obligation to uphold the 1st Amendment to the United States Constitution. Second, he's right, this has nothing to do with emotional support animals. Bringing up emotional support animals only muddies the waters. Service animals are regulated under the ADA. People with a registered service animal are allowed to bring them on board an aircraft. The dog apparently because sick, which is unfortunate, but it happens. How DL handled it (extremely poorly IMHO) is another matter. However, this has nothing to do with an emotional support peacock or whatever.


Thank you for the lesson on the First Amendment but if you note, I never mentioned the First Amendment. The First Amendment of my country's Constitution does not cover private conduct; it limits government. Additionally, the First Amendment does not extend beyond my country's borders. For that matter, given your interest in the United States Constitution, the only amendment that covers private conduct is the Thirteenth, outlawing slavery inside the United States. It is a sad state of affairs that an amendment was necessary to eliminate slavery. However, all that being said, free speech, in generic form does and should exist. If it offends you, do not have a forum. Hate speech, personal attacks, should be banned but nothing I said approaches such speech. My observations are however, most of the angst seems to center around people not having the correct view. For example, if anyone puts a topic back up on the affects to either Boeing or Airbus, and someone criticizes the United States for pulling out of the deal, that seems to be generally tolerated. However, any defense of the United States pulling out of the deal is not tolerated. Just an observation. Anyway, my two cents. If yo udo not like it, ignore it or take it down; I really do not care which.
 
kiowa
Posts: 314
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:37 am

Re: DL Pax Told to Sit in Feces-Stained Seat

Sun Nov 11, 2018 2:45 pm

IPFreely wrote:
Bald1983 wrote:
This flight should have been held until it was cleaned. If the crew timed out, they time out. No plane should depart with excrement in the seat and on the floor, period. It is a health issue and a customer service issue.


I believe there was a post awhile ago about a flight in Phoenix that was significantly delayed for sanitizing when an inbound passenger created a similar situation. But we're talking about Delta here. Their "mainline only", "days in a row", and "completion factor" statistics are far more important to them than delaying a flight to deal with a biohazard.


I hope that is not the case. Pooh is a biohazard and needs to be dealt with properly.
 
Aptivaboy
Posts: 602
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Re: DL Pax Told to Sit in Feces-Stained Seat

Sun Nov 11, 2018 3:43 pm

My reason, besides I want to, is that people are pushing more and more to allow emotional support animals on board which is going to cause problems.


As others have stated, this isn't about emotional support animals. In fact, I'll go further. Airlines like Delta and United (if memory serves) are tightening their rules on ESAs. Right now, it looks like the days of emotional support peacocks, squirrels, gerbils, parrots, mules, and so on are about over; dogs and cats only, from now on as per many carriers, and then of a certain size. Various carriers differ in their requirements, but that seems to be where many airlines are going, and where some already are. Airlines and passengers have had it with people abusing the privilege, so they're pushing back, and rightfully so. I do not agree that "people are pushing more and more" to expand ESA accommodations. The reverse seems far more appropriate.

Animals covered under the ADA are a totally different critter (so to speak), however. Assuming they meet the federal regulatory requirements, they are allowed on-board. The problem here was not that there was an animal on the previous flight. The problem was that Delta totally mishandled a piss poor, stinky situation. Animals will do what animals do. The airlines needs to have a method of dealing with the problem professionally short of telling a paying passenger to sit in feces. I once was on a flight where you could tell someone had had an accident. The pungent odor of urine was apparent to everyone; either UA or AA back about ten years ago. It was absolutely disgusting. However, at least they'd tried to clean the plane, and you could also make out the smell of some cleaning product. They at least made the effort.
 
FlyBitcoin
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:38 am

Re: DL Pax Told to Sit in Feces-Stained Seat

Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:22 pm

I said all along why Delta remained quiet about this story except for the one communication with the pax? They knew the busy election news cycle would kill it. Look how this board just died as well. No way Delta was going to give media interviews and further apologize, or do anything to give the story legs. Now the story is dead and nothing will change.
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 2298
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: DL Pax Told to Sit in Feces-Stained Seat

Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:54 pm

aloha73g wrote:
When I was a flight attendant for Hawaiian we kept replacement seat cushions on board so we could quickly swap them out (velcro magic!) if someone had an accident. It happened a couple times when someone had an accident or a beverage got spilled, but it was a quick cushion swap with the dirty one placed in a trash bag & stowed until we returned to HNL.

I generally find DL employees to be great, but the pilots, F/As and ground staff involved in this should all be written up and sent to some training at a minimum. Sounds like they all just wanted to "go" instead of solving the problem. This is unacceptable and inexcusable.

-Aloha!


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