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SRQKEF
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Icelandair taking over WOW

Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:01 pm

Just in: https://www.mbl.is/vidskipti/frettir/20 ... r_wow_air/

According to initial news reporting, the WOW air brand will stay intact as a seperate brand under Icelandair Group. The new entity will have a combined transatlantic market share of 3,8%.
Last edited by atcsundevil on Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Title updated
Nothing compares to taking off in an empty 757 with full thrust!
 
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chrisnh
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Re: Icelandair and WOW merging!

Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:04 pm

Boston can’t help but get whacked. I can’t see the merged carrier retaining all those flights.
 
factsonly
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Re: Icelandair and WOW merging!

Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:05 pm

Icelandair intends on buying WOW, but FI shareholder approval is required.
Special AGM to be organised in the coming days.

The two brands are to operate independent of each other.
 
smokeybandit
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Re: Icelandair and WOW merging!

Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:05 pm

 
lowfareair
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Re: Icelandair and WOW merging!

Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:06 pm

Crazy if it is approved - I think this will put Norwegian as the last independent ULCC with a decent network across the Atlantic (for now).

The most interesting this is that it values Wow at about 1/19th of Icelandair (WOW shareholders and debtholders would get 5.4% of the combined company) - is WOW really in that much financial trouble relative to Icelandair?
 
Blerg
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Re: Icelandair and WOW merging!

Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:13 pm

Why would FI do that? Isn't it easier to let them go bankrupt on their own?
 
IndianicWorld
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Re: Icelandair and WOW merging!

Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:15 pm

Maybe FI see a place for the WOW model, giving them space to better focus on other key priority markets withe the main brand. Who knows.

It does at least provide some confidence, which would have been substantially affected by a failure of WOW. It wouldn’t have been all good news for FI.
 
a320fan
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Re: Icelandair and WOW merging!

Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:16 pm

Blerg wrote:
Why would FI do that? Isn't it easier to let them go bankrupt on their own?

But they will get a funky new brand at a different position in the market where they can grow on new routes and supplement their own mainline routes. Or they will just slowly but surely wind down WOW to maintain the monopoly of a KEF hub.
A319, A320, A321, A330-200, A380, 737-700, 737-800, 777-200ER, 777-300, 777-300ER, 787-8, Q300
 
stlgph
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Re: Icelandair and WOW merging!

Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:17 pm

Definitely not your father's Icelandair.

An interesting proposed move that lets them play a bit of a "gatekeeper" to the Icelandair tourism market - while they can't keep all competitors out of the market from the U.S. and Europe, it lets them have a better handle on the numbers, maximizing revenue potential for the group.

And keeping it a separate entity - I like this (I wish Southwest had done the same with AirTran). If the whole thing becomes cumbersome, they can just dump the hell out.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
workhorse
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Re: Icelandair and WOW merging!

Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:23 pm

Can we expect FI getting rid of the 737s and switching to the 320 family?
 
Flaps
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Re: Icelandair and WOW merging!

Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:30 pm

workhorse wrote:
Can we expect FI getting rid of the 737s and switching to the 320 family?


If there were to be a fleet rationalization it would more likely be the other way around.
 
BrianDromey
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Re: Icelandair and WOW merging!

Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:33 pm

stlgph wrote:
And keeping it a separate entity - I like this (I wish Southwest had done the same with AirTran). If the whole thing becomes cumbersome, they can just dump the hell out.


This has the stench of buying a competitor to prevent competition at KEF. Imagine if Ryanair had an idea that Lauda motion is a bit lonely and could do with an Icelandic family? Or easyJet, Or IAG/LEVEL, Or LH/Eurowings. They will remain separate for now, while FI figures out what to do, but in the medium term I would expect one of two things to happen

1) WOW becomes a 'fare family' within FI. You know the drill, no checked luggage, no hand baggage, no seat assignment, no food, etc.
2) An Austrian/Tyrolean style reverse merger could happen. Presumably T&C's at WOW are more favourable than at Icelandair, but presumably Icelandair can lease/finance aircraft at more favourable rates than WOW can, important to keep costs low if your aim is to be the price leader over the Atlantic.

Long term a mixed fleet of A320/321/333 and 752/3/7M8/763 seems unlikely. ~20 Airbus and 20 Boeing seems ripe for rationalisation. Perhaps 73M/321N/330 long term.
 
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SRQKEF
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Re: Icelandair and WOW merging!

Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:36 pm

WOW air has been running sale fares of around 99$ oneway to many US destinations and 60€ oneway to European destinations this weekend. Now that their future seems secured, it might be worth looking into getting a roundtrip to SFO for 198$... ;)
Nothing compares to taking off in an empty 757 with full thrust!
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Icelandair and WOW merging!

Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:44 pm

Maybe some Icelandic bankers had begun due diligence when this thread was started:

viewtopic.php?t=1403821
 
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ACCS300
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Re: Icelandair and WOW merging!

Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:49 pm

Will both brands remain or will WOW be folded into Icelandair?
 
Bricktop
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Re: Icelandair and WOW merging!

Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:50 pm

:D All I can say is WOW!
 
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hvusslax
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Re: Icelandair and WOW merging!

Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:51 pm

ACCS300 wrote:
Will both brands remain or will WOW be folded into Icelandair?


Both brands will remain, at least to begin with.
 
lavalampluva
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Re: Icelandair and WOW merging!

Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:51 pm

Their fleets couldn't be more different. IF this does go through expect some trimming of destinations. It'll be interesting to watch.
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
MartijnNL
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Re: Icelandair and WOW merging!

Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:57 pm

ACCS300 wrote:
Will both brands remain or will WOW be folded into Icelandair?

Did you start to read in the middle of this thread?

In the opening post it is mentioned that both brands remain.

:roll:
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Icelandair and WOW merging!

Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:58 pm

lowfareair wrote:
Crazy if it is approved - I think this will put Norwegian as the last independent ULCC with a decent network across the Atlantic (for now).

The most interesting this is that it values Wow at about 1/19th of Icelandair (WOW shareholders and debtholders would get 5.4% of the combined company) - is WOW really in that much financial trouble relative to Icelandair?


The difference is that Icelandair mainly owns its stuff, as there are, air plains, ground handling + kitchen, training academy, offices, hotels and so on. Icelandair has quite a bit equity, as assets are quite a bit more than liabilities. WOW has everything leased, from air plains to offices.

So the talk here in Iceland is not about a merger, but Icelandair buying WOW.

One big change is now, that Icelandair will evolve from a Boeing only airline to a mixed fleet, with only 3 737-8 being rather new and the rest of the Boeing fleet being rather aged 767 and 757. The average age of the WOW Airbus fleet is 3.4 years.
 
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JannEejit
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Re: Icelandair and WOW merging!

Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:59 pm

Maybe copy the Bmi loco model and rename Wow as 'Ice Ice Baby' ? OK I'll get my coat ! :P 8-)
Last edited by JannEejit on Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: Icelandair and WOW merging!

Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:03 pm

JannEejit wrote:
Maybe copy the Bmi loco model and rename Wow as 'Ice Ice Baby' ? OK I'll get my coat !

They can stop, collaborate, and listen with NH and call the new subsidiary "Vanilla Ice".
 
Someone83
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Re: Icelandair and WOW merging!

Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:05 pm

workhorse wrote:

Also, they never had 737s in their fleet before,
..


They had some 737-400s "back in the days"
 
tomcoppins
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Re: Icelandair and WOW merging!

Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:08 pm

Could FI see WOWs 321's as a potential replacement for their 757's?
 
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leleko747
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Re: Icelandair and WOW merging!

Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:10 pm

workhorse wrote:
Also, they never had 737s in their fleet before, so there is no any commonality advantage.




I wonder when people will understand:
Embraer 190 or simply E190, not ERJ-190. E-Jets are NOT ERJs!
Boeing 747-8, not Boeing 747-800. Same goes for 787.
Airbus A320, not Airbus 320.
Airbii does not exist.
 
SeoulIncheon
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Re: Icelandair and WOW merging!

Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:10 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Maybe some Icelandic bankers had begun due diligence when this thread was started:

viewtopic.php?t=1403821


Probably the due diligence is already finished. Most companies usually have due diligence reports at hand when they make the deal publicly known.
 
cityshuttle
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Re: Icelandair and WOW merging!

Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:14 pm

 
devron
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Re: Icelandair and WOW merging!

Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:14 pm

I wonder what this will do to the Icelandic economy which is in large part driven by tourists coming in on cheap flight prices and stopovers. Will still be better then WOW folding.

Still same markets, different fleets, same O&D markets. What is in it for Iceland air besides a brand name and a few contracts? Must have been dirt cheap?
 
SCQ83
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Re: Icelandair and WOW merging!

Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:15 pm

WOW :)

I wonder if in addition to all the points raised, Icelandair will try to make WOW a trans-European brand like Primera Air. They could open bases in other markets to start with, like STN (now with no TATL flights after Primera's bankruptcy) or some Scandinavian airport. It will compete directly with Norwegian and it will create new markets making the Icelandic Group less reliant in EU-KEF-NA traffic which at this point is likely very saturated.
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Icelandair and WOW merging!

Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:16 pm

tomcoppins wrote:
Could FI see WOWs 321's as a potential replacement for their 757's?


It could well be, but at this time I expect them to run the fleets side by side, with the two crew pools. They will do some evaluation and we just have to wait and see.

One point is that the frames used, do not have to fly the whole North Atlantic. At least on the European and North America East coast routes, range is not the big problem.
 
workhorse
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Re: Icelandair and WOW merging!

Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:18 pm

Someone83 wrote:
They had some 737-400s "back in the days"


OK, my bad, but I guess the pilot certifications and parts stocks on these are gone since longtime.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Icelandair and WOW merging!

Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:19 pm

I can't say that I'm really surprised by this. I don't really think there was enough room for two carriers operating in essentially the same space. They'll be able to offer a pretty competitive game as a combined entity.
 
lowfareair
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Re: Icelandair and WOW merging!

Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:21 pm

devron wrote:
I wonder what this will do to the Icelandic economy which is in large part driven by tourists coming in on cheap flight prices and stopovers. Will still be better then WOW folding.

Still same markets, different fleets, same O&D markets. What is in it for Iceland air besides a brand name and a few contracts? Must have been dirt cheap?


They eliminate their biggest competitor, can remove some redundancies, gain economies of scale in some areas for better bargaining power, etc. The first one is the biggest and likely primary reason, especially when it comes to seeing higher yields
 
lowfareair
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Re: Icelandair and WOW merging!

Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:23 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
I can't say that I'm really surprised by this. I don't really think there was enough room for two carriers operating in essentially the same space. They'll be able to offer a pretty competitive game as a combined entity.


I think the end game will be all/most flights operated by Icelandair with a "WOW fare" option that is barebones.
 
Lapplander800
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Re: Icelandair and WOW merging!

Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:23 pm

lowfareair wrote:
The most interesting this is that it values Wow at about 1/19th of Icelandair (WOW shareholders and debtholders would get 5.4% of the combined company) - is WOW really in that much financial trouble relative to Icelandair?


If you read further then WOW's real owner is only guaranteed to get 1/3rd of those 5.4% the rest is contingent on the results of due diligence. So....
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Icelandair and WOW merging!

Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:24 pm

SeoulIncheon wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Maybe some Icelandic bankers had begun due diligence when this thread was started:

https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1403821


Probably the due diligence is already finished. Most companies usually have due diligence reports at hand when they make the deal publicly known.


Have a look at the source link in the OP's post. Google Translate does a decent job from Icelandic to English.
 
parapente
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Re: Icelandair and WOW merging!

Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:25 pm

Well if combining the two companies stops the bleeding from both companies it has to be a good thing.Guess there will be a load of consolidation and redundancy.WOW was loosing money as a ULCC which is very dangerous as there is less fat to cut,merging was probably the only way to stem the bleeding.
 
Lapplander800
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Re: Icelandair and WOW merging!

Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:26 pm

lowfareair wrote:
devron wrote:
I wonder what this will do to the Icelandic economy which is in large part driven by tourists coming in on cheap flight prices and stopovers. Will still be better then WOW folding.

Still same markets, different fleets, same O&D markets. What is in it for Iceland air besides a brand name and a few contracts? Must have been dirt cheap?


They eliminate their biggest competitor, can remove some redundancies, gain economies of scale in some areas for better bargaining power, etc. The first one is the biggest and likely primary reason, especially when it comes to seeing higher yields


Gaining access to lines of credit and cash on hand can do wonders for negotiating your costs
 
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PHL9R
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Re: Icelandair and WOW merging!

Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:30 pm

Interesting. I wonder if the model for FI will change? Maybe WOW will strictly be the bottom feeder with FI back to being the full service airline. Right after my first FI trip, they introduced the "economy light" fare class. I wonder if they'll drop this eventually.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Icelandair and WOW merging!

Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:33 pm

Wow, didn't saw it coming.

lowfareair wrote:
I think the end game will be all/most flights operated by Icelandair with a "WOW fare" option that is barebones.


You mean like Snowflake by Scandinavian?
I have discovered that once people are truly captivated in their ignorance, they are generally unwilling to let the facts interfere.
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knope2001
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Re: Icelandair and WOW merging!

Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:37 pm

Blerg wrote:
Why would FI do that? Isn't it easier to let them go bankrupt on their own?


If WOW was to be dead and gone within a few months, perhaps so. But the longer a wounded competitor hangs on the more damage it inflicts on the (expected) surviving carrier. That may have been part of the calculus here.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Icelandair and WOW merging!

Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:38 pm

For instance, they could move a couple of WOW planes to STN.

Start a base there with flights to EWR, BOS and IAD (or BWI) (like Primera had).
 
bmibaby737
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Re: Icelandair and WOW merging!

Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:42 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
For instance, they could move a couple of WOW planes to STN.

Start a base there with flights to EWR, BOS and IAD (or BWI) (like Primera had).


Yes, that worked out well for Primera!
 
Newbiepilot
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Re: Icelandair and WOW merging!

Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:46 pm

Lapplander800 wrote:
Newbiepilot wrote:
workhorse wrote:

Because the very nature of their operations requires maximum performance. It's no wonder the 757 was - and still is - the mainstay of their fleet. The further their narrowbodies can fly, the bigger market they can capture. The 320neo family offers to an Iceland-based airline much better growth opportunities than the 737.

Also, they never had 737s in their fleet before, so there is no any commonality advantage.

I will totally understand if for example KLM orders 737MAX some day, because of the huge cost advantages it gives them regarding training and maintenance costs and because the vast majority of their routes are under 2 hours, but Icelandair...


The A321LR has more range than the 737-8 when equipped with 3 aux tanks. Unfortunately that doesn’t leave cargo volume when flying shorter routes or weight for cargo when flying longer which is important for Icelandair. The 737-8 has been scheduled for routes up to 3200nm. That is marginally enough range for KEF-SEA.

It will be interesting to see how this impacts the fleet. The A321neos are leased and 737a are owned. Airlines with poor credit like Wow tend not to get particularly favorable lease terms versus direct purchase airplanes. Ownership costs may favor keeping 737s.


2 737 are owned yet financed.
1 737 is leased

The 737 due to enter in 2019 the financing options have yet TBA


Thanks for the clarification. Do you know how many of Wow’s fleet is leased? I think it is most if not all.
 
Zephyrhills
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Re: Icelandair and WOW merging!

Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:46 pm

 
SCQ83
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Re: Icelandair and WOW merging!

Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:48 pm

bmibaby737 wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
For instance, they could move a couple of WOW planes to STN.

Start a base there with flights to EWR, BOS and IAD (or BWI) (like Primera had).


Yes, that worked out well for Primera!


Long-haul low-cost works for other carriers like Norwegian, LEVEL or Icelandair itself. IMO the most logical thing would be:

- Icelandair focused in the KEF hub, growing by adding more secondary destinations in Europe and North America.

- WOW becoming a pan-European low-cost focused on main O&D markets competing with Norwegian or LEVEL.

In any case, Icelandair's growth (even without WOW) is severely limited by its business model. There is a limited amount of people that are willing to fly XXX-KEF-YYY. Those USD 99 fares are for a reason. Then there are physical limits (KEF itself) and other risks (e.g. volcanos).
Last edited by SCQ83 on Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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enilria
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Re: Icelandair and WOW merging!

Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:49 pm

lowfareair wrote:
Crazy if it is approved - I think this will put Norwegian as the last independent ULCC with a decent network across the Atlantic (for now).

The most interesting this is that it values Wow at about 1/19th of Icelandair (WOW shareholders and debtholders would get 5.4% of the combined company) - is WOW really in that much financial trouble relative to Icelandair?

Yes, WOW was valued an nearly nothing. It really shouldn't be approved because of overlap, but it probably will...which takes me to point #2...
chrisnh wrote:
Boston can’t help but get whacked. I can’t see the merged carrier retaining all those flights.

This is going to "pop" a lot of planes. There are a lot of overlapping markets. There's no way they would have a low cost brand and the regular brand in the same market long term. I think you will see huge capacity cuts in overlapping USA markets. Europe may be more static. This likely means that markets like STL may return unless they park a bunch of planes.
Blerg wrote:
Why would FI do that? Isn't it easier to let them go bankrupt on their own?

WW just got an $80m loan. They weren't going away soon.
 
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hvusslax
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Re: Icelandair and WOW merging!

Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:53 pm

Icelandair stock has risen 42% on the Icelandic stock exchange today!
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: Icelandair and WOW merging!

Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:55 pm

Does anyone else think that this will result in a four bank (2 eastbound/2 westbound) operation to relieve some of the stress at KEF? I could envision FI operating the "primetime" banks with WOW operating the other 2 banks at later times allowing the group as a whole to increase travel options. FI is already doing this on a small scale.
Last edited by OzarkD9S on Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Next up: STL-DAL-ABQ-DAL-STL. A little December day trip. Because that's what av-geeks do. :airplane:
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Icelandair and WOW merging!

Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:56 pm

Could this have been to avoid a competitor buying WOW?
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