https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/a ... 98311.html

As discussed recently, AC's focus on YUL continues. YUL-RDU starts on 03JUN19 - a daily CRJ.

The solution at YYZ is increased aircraft gauge from CRJs to E75s, which also introduces J class to these routes....or re-introduces it to RDU as I know it's been on-and-off in the past.

The E175 will be a welcome change at CLT. Those Air Georgian CR2s (and sometimes CR1s) are rough and often covered in dents and speed tape.

Do any of the E175s sport the new livery?

Fantastic news.. RDU, IMO, has been overdue to YUL since it is a major transit airport for AC. And to get some bigger birds in is great. 4 daily flights is awesome. Better utilization of their gate too.. I'm excited!

Thank god, this is long over due in CLT. It’s been a CRJ 200 route as far as I can remember. They did operate a daily E90 for a month about 2 years ago. Saw the new livery 175s when transiting through MSP, beautiful looking.

CLTRampRat wrote:

The E175 will be a welcome change at CLT. Those Air Georgian CR2s (and sometimes CR1s) are rough and often covered in dents and speed tape.

Do any of the E175s sport the new livery?

Several E75s sport the new livery

Fantastic news for RDU and YUL.

Great news. I Suspect that Air Canada is going to want to start leveraging more connections onto their international routes. I almost took a flight though YVZ for a connection on an upcoming trip.

casinterest wrote:

Great news. I Suspect that Air Canada is going to want to start leveraging more connections onto their international routes. I almost took a flight though YVZ for a connection on an upcoming trip.

AC could also be looking to offload connections through YYZ which is tight for space. They are always offering flight options such as MCO-YUL-YYZ-YSB/YTS/YAM/YQT suggesting they have capacity on US flights to drive traffic through YUL to connections in Canada. Any word on growing YUL connections options for other Canada centers for flights to/from US?

CLTRampRat wrote:

The E175 will be a welcome change at CLT. Those Air Georgian CR2s (and sometimes CR1s) are rough and often covered in dents and speed tape.

Do any of the E175s sport the new livery?

You said it! That's all we get at STL.

casinterest wrote:

Great news. I Suspect that Air Canada is going to want to start leveraging more connections onto their international routes. I almost took a flight though YVZ for a connection on an upcoming trip.

While the connecting experience at YYZ is really pleasant (provided you don't mind walking), the lack of J on routes like RDU and CLT (and others that still lack J like BNA, CLE, and PIT) makes YYZ really uncompetitive as a connecting point for some subset of passengers.

Cubsrule wrote:

casinterest wrote:

Great news. I Suspect that Air Canada is going to want to start leveraging more connections onto their international routes. I almost took a flight though YVZ for a connection on an upcoming trip.

While the connecting experience at YYZ is really pleasant (provided you don't mind walking), the lack of J on routes like RDU and CLT (and others that still lack J like BNA, CLE, and PIT) makes YYZ really uncompetitive as a connecting point for some subset of passengers.

Won't the E175 have J/FC ?

On a hop that short, I personally could care less about J vs coach.

casinterest wrote:

Cubsrule wrote:

casinterest wrote:

Great news. I Suspect that Air Canada is going to want to start leveraging more connections onto their international routes. I almost took a flight though YVZ for a connection on an upcoming trip.

While the connecting experience at YYZ is really pleasant (provided you don't mind walking), the lack of J on routes like RDU and CLT (and others that still lack J like BNA, CLE, and PIT) makes YYZ really uncompetitive as a connecting point for some subset of passengers.

Won't the E175 have J/FC ?

On a hop that short, I personally could care less about J vs coach.

CLT and RDU are getting J. But plenty of cities are still all-CR2. I don't mind an exit row on a CR1/2 for flights of a couple of hours, but depending on the size of your neighbor the other rows can be unpleasant, and gate checking bags is a drag with no jet bridges for the 50 seaters at YYZ.

yyztpa wrote:

AC could also be looking to offload connections through YYZ which is tight for space. They are always offering flight options... ... suggesting they have capacity on US flights to drive traffic through YUL to connections in Canada.

YYZ is indeed getting crowded.

Now, compound that with this additional federal carbon fuel sale tax that's coming to Ontario... Could that end up alleviating some of that crowding maybe?

ExMilitaryEng wrote:

yyztpa wrote:

AC could also be looking to offload connections through YYZ which is tight for space. They are always offering flight options... ... suggesting they have capacity on US flights to drive traffic through YUL to connections in Canada.

YYZ is indeed getting crowded.

Now, compound that with this additional federal carbon fuel sale tax that's coming to Ontario... Could that end up alleviating some of that crowding maybe?

Some of the most expensive airports in the world are the most crowded. Cost seems to be a secondary consideration if the destination is high demand.

That being said, if YYZ gets to a point where it can't grow anymore, I could see Air Canada favouring O&D over connections.

The question is: How much growth can Montreal sustain too? After that, there's not much in the way of airports in the east of the country that provide the breadth of destinations to make them attractive connection points.

The relative under utilization of airports in this country is quickly coming to an end due to growth in the aviation sector.

wave46 wrote:

ExMilitaryEng wrote:

yyztpa wrote:

AC could also be looking to offload connections through YYZ which is tight for space. They are always offering flight options... ... suggesting they have capacity on US flights to drive traffic through YUL to connections in Canada.

YYZ is indeed getting crowded.

Now, compound that with this additional federal carbon fuel sale tax that's coming to Ontario... Could that end up alleviating some of that crowding maybe?

Some of the most expensive airports in the world are the most crowded. Cost seems to be a secondary consideration if the destination is high demand.

That being said, if YYZ gets to a point where it can't grow anymore, I could see Air Canada favouring O&D over connections.

The question is: How much growth can Montreal sustain too? After that, there's not much in the way of airports in the east of the country that provide the breadth of destinations to make them attractive connection points.

The relative under utilization of airports in this country is quickly coming to an end due to growth in the aviation sector.

You pretty much have YOW after that. Before the giant YYZ and YUL build ups, AC’s YOW traffic mix probably peaked at about 15% connecting. Now it’s more like 8-10% as AC cut serveral routes, like YQT and YHM, combined others like YQR and YXE into a single triangle flight, reduced others like the latter two and YYT and YYG down to seasonal and reduced flight frequencies on all year-round YOW routes west of Ontario. Now that YOW is surpassing the 5 million mark, hopefully some of that comes back...but that will only happen once YUL is saturated.

Remember way back when, AC and before that CP flew YOW-RDU? It was dubbed the Nortel Shuttle and even peaked at twice daily service. With Nortel long gone so is the route.

Both CLT and RDU used to see AC mainline years ago-CLT saw A319s and RDU saw DC9s and 737s, IIRC.

RDU had J service up to about 4 years ago on the Jazz CRJ-705s. However all the Jazz RJs were taken out of YYZ and replaced with the Georgian 200s since then.

I can’t recall CLT having scheduled J service, sure there was the occasional upgauge, however I might be wrong.

RDU is an excellent and overdue add for YUL. Nice to see.

CLTRampRat wrote:

The E175 will be a welcome change at CLT. Those Air Georgian CR2s (and sometimes CR1s) are rough and often covered in dents and speed tape.

Do any of the E175s sport the new livery?

Currently 10 of them are in the new livery with 5 more scheduled to be repainted this fall and the remaining 10 next year.

wave46 wrote:

ExMilitaryEng wrote:

yyztpa wrote:

AC could also be looking to offload connections through YYZ which is tight for space. They are always offering flight options... ... suggesting they have capacity on US flights to drive traffic through YUL to connections in Canada.

YYZ is indeed getting crowded.

Now, compound that with this additional federal carbon fuel sale tax that's coming to Ontario... Could that end up alleviating some of that crowding maybe?

Some of the most expensive airports in the world are the most crowded. Cost seems to be a secondary consideration if the destination is high demand.

That being said, if YYZ gets to a point where it can't grow anymore, I could see Air Canada favouring O&D over connections.

The question is: How much growth can Montreal sustain too? After that, there's not much in the way of airports in the east of the country that provide the breadth of destinations to make them attractive connection points.

The relative under utilization of airports in this country is quickly coming to an end due to growth in the aviation sector.

YUL is underutilized. It can handle a lot more than it currently does. Runway capacity is not a problem. More gates are needed, and ADM will be addressing that issue in the coming years. They'll be investing $2.5B dollars in the next five years.

https://www.admtl.com/sites/default/fil ... ce-ANG.pdf

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zX3LpWWAwdU

willenglish wrote:

I can’t recall CLT having scheduled J service, sure there was the occasional upgauge, however I might be wrong.
.

Up until around 2001, AC used to use A319s on CLT-YYZ. I think that was the last time J service was scheduled.

USAirALB wrote:

Up until around 2001, AC used to use A319s on CLT-YYZ. I think that was the last time J service was scheduled.

Slightly off topic but wasn't there also an Inter-Canadien F28 service earlier?

I think the Inter-Canadien service was after the A319 service.

USAirALB wrote:

Both CLT and RDU used to see AC mainline years ago-CLT saw A319s and RDU saw DC9s and 737s, IIRC.

I think you’re right about the DC9s briefly being on RDU-YYZ at the peak of the tech boom. Also both YYZ-RDU and YOW-RDU saw AC all mainline back in the CRJ mainline days, bu no J class of course.

ExMilitaryEng wrote:

USAirALB wrote:

Up until around 2001, AC used to use A319s on CLT-YYZ. I think that was the last time J service was scheduled.

Slightly off topic but wasn't there also an Inter-Canadien F28 service earlier?

I know there was on Canadian Regional F28s on both YOW-RDU and YYZ-RDU.

They could've added YYZ-SDF or YYZ-OKC but I guess Pearson is at capacity it seems.

I remember props on CLT-YYZ. This is a great shift.

ExMilitaryEng wrote:

USAirALB wrote:

Up until around 2001, AC used to use A319s on CLT-YYZ. I think that was the last time J service was scheduled.

Slightly off topic but wasn't there also an Inter-Canadien F28 service earlier?

AC flew DC-9s and CL-65s on YYZ-CLT. After the merger with Canadian Airlines, the route was taken over by F-28s of Canadian Regional. J was offered on both the DC-9 and the F-28.

InterCanadian was a different airline, which flew F100s (technically F-28s), but never regionally for Canadian/Air Canada after the merger.

longhauler wrote:

ExMilitaryEng wrote:

USAirALB wrote:

Up until around 2001, AC used to use A319s on CLT-YYZ. I think that was the last time J service was scheduled.

Slightly off topic but wasn't there also an Inter-Canadien F28 service earlier?

AC flew DC-9s and CL-65s on YYZ-CLT. After the merger with Canadian Airlines, the route was taken over by F-28s of Canadian Regional. J was offered on both the DC-9 and the F-28.

InterCanadian was a different airline, which flew F100s (technically F-28s), but never regionally for Canadian/Air Canada after the merger.

http://www.departedflights.com/YYZ99p1.html

This timetable also shows A319 service.

longhauler wrote:

ExMilitaryEng wrote:

USAirALB wrote:

Up until around 2001, AC used to use A319s on CLT-YYZ. I think that was the last time J service was scheduled.

Slightly off topic but wasn't there also an Inter-Canadien F28 service earlier?

AC flew DC-9s and CL-65s on YYZ-CLT. After the merger with Canadian Airlines, the route was taken over by F-28s of Canadian Regional. J was offered on both the DC-9 and the F-28.

InterCanadian was a different airline, which flew F100s (technically F-28s), but never regionally for Canadian/Air Canada after the merger.

Wasn't that the independently operated, Quebec-based Intair (by Leblanc who later operated Royal follwed by the Jetsgo debacle) that morphed into Inter Canadi>n, that mostly operated ATR 42s within Quebec?

USAirALB wrote:

http://www.departedflights.com/YYZ99p1.html

This timetable also shows A319 service.

That's interesting. The actual Air Canada print timetable I referred to, showed 545/546 as a DC-9. I suppose it could have been either. Airline print timetables published every 4 or 6 months are never as accurate as an OAG, printed monthly or sometimes twice a month.

(It's an odd hobby, but I have a copy of every Trans-Canada Air Lines / Air Canada timetable printed from 1937 until they stopped printing them in 2001).

duplicate post
disregard

Dominion301 wrote:

Wasn't that the independently operated, Quebec-based Intair (by Leblanc who later operated Royal follwed by the Jetsgo debacle) that morphed into Inter Canadi>n, that mostly operated ATR 42s within Quebec?

LeBlanc owned it at the end, when they were bought by Canadian Regional, but it`s origins are actually within Quebecair. PW bought Quebecair and merged them into Nordair Metro and called it InterCanadian after merging with CP ... flying codeshare flights for the merged CP/PW/ND now called Canadian Airlines.

When LeBlanc bought it, they stopped the codeshare and actually tried to compete independantly. Canadian bought it back (for pennies on the dollar, as it wasn't doing well), retired the F100s and merged the ATRs into Canadian Regional Airlines.

But back to the YYZ-CLT route. Before the merger with AC, CP never flew the route. After the merger Canadian Regional took it over with F28s in a 10J 45Y configuration.

longhauler wrote:

USAirALB wrote:

http://www.departedflights.com/YYZ99p1.html

This timetable also shows A319 service.

That's interesting. The actual Air Canada print timetable I referred to, showed 545/546 as a DC-9. I suppose it could have been either. Airline print timetables published every 4 or 6 months are never as accurate as an OAG, printed monthly or sometimes twice a month.

(It's an odd hobby, but I have a copy of every Trans-Canada Air Lines / Air Canada timetable printed from 1937 until they stopped printing them in 2001).

There's actually a picture of an AC A319 at the terminal at CLT somewhere on the web-I'll have to see if I can find it.

USAirALB wrote:

There's actually a picture of an AC A319 at the terminal at CLT somewhere on the web-I'll have to see if I can find it.

I am pretty sure the information you have is accurate. The only reason I did not mention the A319 flying between YYZ and CLT is because it didn't appear in the print Air Canada timetable The information you quoted above is from the OAG which will always be more accurate as it is more up to date. It is hard to imagine in today's digital age, but printed timetables always had their pitfalls.

I remember the time though ... the DC-9 and A319 were often substituted, both planned and last minute.

Dominion301 wrote:

longhauler wrote:

AC flew DC-9s and CL-65s on YYZ-CLT. After the merger with Canadian Airlines, the route was taken over by F-28s of Canadian Regional. J was offered on both the DC-9 and the F-28.
InterCanadian was a different airline, which flew F100s (technically F-28s), but never regionally for Canadian/Air Canada after the merger.

Wasn't that the independently operated, Quebec-based Intair (by Leblanc who later operated Royal follwed by the Jetsgo debacle) that morphed into Inter Canadi>n, that mostly operated ATR 42s within Quebec?

Thanks longhauler for your usual informative input.

Dominion, you are also bringing interesting memories. From my own recollection, Inter-Canadien was created after the disappearance of Quebecair. It then served as an independent feeder to Canadian (I wrongly thought they operated legacy F28s, but hey!).
I even recall Robert Doluce (yes, Porter's Deluce) being its CEO at some point and announcing the purchase of 6 ERJ145. He pointed out then the CRJ financing was just too expensive (compared to the ERJ "ProEx" scheme I guess). Anyways, that purchase never materialised.

Sometime after (at the AC’s merger?) Inter-Canadien changed into independent (ie “non-feeding”) “Intair” under Michel Leblanc’s ownership / leadership. I believe they had then 6 brand new Fokker 100s, and 6 used ATR42s. Amongst other destinations, Intair served the St-Hubert airport with ATR42 for a short period, but w/o success. He later said that St-Hubert was more known for (BBQ) chicken than as a Montréal south shore airport (I liked that one!!!).

Intair operated independently for less than 2 years (even 1 year?) before disappearing; it could not survive the $40 YYZ-YUL price war...

FWIW, Leblanc “liked” the F100’s low CASM so much that he acquired a bunch of used examples from AA, when he ran JetsGo.

ExMilitaryEng wrote:

Dominion301 wrote:

longhauler wrote:

AC flew DC-9s and CL-65s on YYZ-CLT. After the merger with Canadian Airlines, the route was taken over by F-28s of Canadian Regional. J was offered on both the DC-9 and the F-28.
InterCanadian was a different airline, which flew F100s (technically F-28s), but never regionally for Canadian/Air Canada after the merger.

Wasn't that the independently operated, Quebec-based Intair (by Leblanc who later operated Royal follwed by the Jetsgo debacle) that morphed into Inter Canadi>n, that mostly operated ATR 42s within Quebec?

Thanks longhauler for your usual informative input.

Dominion, you are also bringing interesting memories. From my own recollection, Inter-Canadien was created after the disappearance of Quebecair. It then served as an independent feeder to Canadian (I wrongly thought they operated legacy F28s, but hey!).
I even recall Robert Doluce (yes, Porter's Deluce) being its CEO at some point and announcing the purchase of 6 ERJ145. He pointed out then the CRJ financing was just too expensive (compared to the ERJ "ProEx" scheme I guess). Anyways, that purchase never materialised.

Sometime after (at the AC’s merger?) Inter-Canadien changed into independent (ie “non-feeding”) “Intair” under Michel Leblanc’s ownership / leadership. I believe they had then 6 brand new Fokker 100s, and 6 used ATR42s. Amongst other destinations, Intair served the St-Hubert airport with ATR42 for a short period, but w/o success. He later said that St-Hubert was more known for (BBQ) chicken than as a Montréal south shore airport (I liked that one!!!).

Intair operated independently for less than 2 years (even 1 year?) before disappearing; it could not survive the $40 YYZ-YUL price war...

FWIW, Leblanc “liked” the F100’s low CASM so much that he acquired a bunch of used examples from AA, when he ran JetsGo.

Cool and thanks longhauler as well. That’s an incredible collection of AC timetables you have. My oldest is a CP from 1952...but I only have a handful of pre-1993 timetables. Used to love reading them and always looked forward to seeing the next issue...total airline geek eh!

So the mid-90s version of Inter Canadi>n that flew ATRs around Quebec as far west as YOW, was just a brand of CRA? Weren’t the never delivered ERJs ordered by Air Atlantic (I know they had the 146s), before Ken Rowe decided to shut down his 2nd airline I believe due to a strike? Ken was never fond of unions. It contributed to why CanJet was shut down.

This pic’s author nicely explains the history:



The original Inter-Canadien even had briefly leased 737s in 1988:



But I never knew Intair operated SWMs. This pic also has more history.

The flight will be well-times for European connections beyond YUL.

Noise wrote:

The flight will be well-times for European connections beyond YUL.

I wonder how much uptake the RDU flight will get in terms of Euro connections given RDU already has daily LHR and CDG flights with global connections?

Dominion301 wrote:

Noise wrote:

The flight will be well-times for European connections beyond YUL.

I wonder how much uptake the RDU flight will get in terms of Euro connections given RDU already has daily LHR and CDG flights with global connections?

Not much I believe, however more options/choice usually results in lower fares, which tends to stimulate the market.

ExMilitaryEng wrote:

yyztpa wrote:

AC could also be looking to offload connections through YYZ which is tight for space. They are always offering flight options... ... suggesting they have capacity on US flights to drive traffic through YUL to connections in Canada.

YYZ is indeed getting crowded.

Now, compound that with this additional federal carbon fuel sale tax that's coming to Ontario... Could that end up alleviating some of that crowding maybe?

The point of the tax is to equalize it across the country. Quebec already has a cap and trade program of equivalent value (as did Ontario until recently).

YYZLGA wrote:

The point of the tax is to equalize it across the country. Quebec already has a cap and trade program of equivalent value (as did Ontario until recently).

Agreed, and you are explaining the logic of sharing/equalizing the burden extremely well!

I would however venture to say that cap and trade is less damaging to the economy. Businesses that can cheaply diminish their emissions will just sell/trade theirs quotas to others that just couldn'd have done it economically otherwise.

OK, that was my own attempt to explain

Any chance more of the Eastern/Midwest cities with YYZ service (CLE, CMH, CVG, IND, etc.) get YUL in addition to RDU and PIT?

DeltaRules wrote:

Any chance more of the Eastern/Midwest cities with YYZ service (CLE, CMH, CVG, IND, etc.) get YUL in addition to RDU and PIT?

I'm sure those are all on the radar. You can throw BNA into the mix. I would say YUL-BNA would be the next flight to be added in the coming years.