Why did Northwest operate MSP-HKG instead of DTW-HKG?

NW/DL did fly DTW-HKG.

Route was suspended in 2012.
viewtopic.php?t=540565

Nw's 744's could not fly DTW-HKG. Even MSP-HKG needed some extreme measures like being towed to the runway to conserve fuel.

UA857 wrote:

Why did Northwest operate MSP-HKG instead of DTW-HKG?

With what aircraft would they have flown DTW-HKG?

UA tried JFK-HKG with a less dense 744, and still had to block 80 seats for the initial ops. NW's 744s were (1) older, (2) more dense, (3) less premium-heavy... meaning they'd struggle even more, from a market that isn't much shorter, but has far less O&D.

Combine that with the fact that a much more powerful DL+NW couldn't make the route work with a 77L (far longer range, and less capacity to fill) is a pretty good indication that it would've been little more than a stinkbomb even if NW had attempted it.

Adding on a little bit.

NW has every single intention to operate DTW-HKG sooner or later back in early 2000s.

First came 9/11.
After 9/11, came SARS (2003).
And ultimately, they route the flight (IIRC) DTW-NRT-HKG (I maybe wrong, though).

It was actually after the merger that DL finally fly DTW-HKG (2010), but that only last for 2 years, with HKG being served via NRT again, before DL tried SEA-HKG, went partial SEA-NRT-HKG for a season, back to full SEA-HKG, until finally dropped.

MSP-HKG itself only lasted for like 9 months anyway. I was actually lucky enough to fly on it myself, although I was way too young to remember what's the load on that flight.

NW did MSP to HKG around 97-98 with an early evening arrival few days a week, the other few days they had SEA-HKG on a 742 (I think it was dedicated to birds with 7R4G2 engine, 631-633), in fact NW sent the World Plane 744 from MSP for the last day of Kai Tak, that day was a gathering day for all the special c/s Wulala Dreaming, Sydney 2000, the list goes on.... The route was dropped in winter 98 as economic condition at the time was poor and charges from HKIA were high, leaving 17/18 HKG-NRT-JFK-NRT-HKG intact till they do DTW again as DL , for DTW, they did have adverts on trams, buses etc but it didn't caught on, tried SEA with 332 with severe payload restriction, moved the route via NRT when the direct JFK was dropped, went alone again before it left, I think (but hope not) for good.

LAX772LR wrote:

UA857 wrote:

Why did Northwest operate MSP-HKG instead of DTW-HKG?

With what aircraft would they have flown DTW-HKG?

UA tried JFK-HKG with a less dense 744, and still had to block 80 seats for the initial ops. NW's 744s were (1) older, (2) more dense, (3) less premium-heavy... meaning they'd struggle even more, from a market that isn't much shorter, but has far less O&D.

Combine that with the fact that a much more powerful DL+NW couldn't make the route work with a 77L (far longer range, and less capacity to fill) is a pretty good indication that it would've been little more than a stinkbomb even if NW had attempted it.

Did United use the same 747-400 they used on JFK-NRT for JFK-HKG?

UA857 wrote:

LAX772LR wrote:

UA857 wrote:

Why did Northwest operate MSP-HKG instead of DTW-HKG?

With what aircraft would they have flown DTW-HKG?

UA tried JFK-HKG with a less dense 744, and still had to block 80 seats for the initial ops. NW's 744s were (1) older, (2) more dense, (3) less premium-heavy... meaning they'd struggle even more, from a market that isn't much shorter, but has far less O&D.

Combine that with the fact that a much more powerful DL+NW couldn't make the route work with a 77L (far longer range, and less capacity to fill) is a pretty good indication that it would've been little more than a stinkbomb even if NW had attempted it.

Did United use the same 747-400 they used on JFK-NRT for JFK-HKG?

Believe UA did extend its JFK-NRT with a NRT-HKG segment on the same flight number, but the aircraft was not always the same plane on NRT to HKG as the one used from JFK to NRT. UA flew 744s into NRT from ORD, LAX, SFO and some 742s were also used, including the JFK route, which only went to 744 in 1997 before being swapped again, to the 772 a few years later before it was cut. JFK-NRT was UA 801. NRT-JFK was UA 800.

Could DL Launch MSP-HKG?

UA857 wrote:

Could DL Launch MSP-HKG?

Could they? Of course they *could*

Would they? Extremely unlikely, seeing as they just completely pulled out of the station, yet again.

Would've NW relaunch MSP-HKG or launch DTW-HKG with the 787?

Were NW’s Pacific operations profitable? It seems NRT was well passed its prime (if it had one) when DL/NW merged. In this thread folks are questioning HKG viability. What did DL really get with NW’s Pacific routes (something touted at the time of the merger) that DL could not have built up themselves?

B-HOP wrote:

NW did MSP to HKG around 97-98 with an early evening arrival few days a week, the other few days they had SEA-HKG on a 742 (I think it was dedicated to birds with 7R4G2 engine, 631-633), in fact NW sent the World Plane 744 from MSP for the last day of Kai Tak, that day was a gathering day for all the special c/s Wulala Dreaming, Sydney 2000, the list goes on.... The route was dropped in winter 98 as economic condition at the time was poor and charges from HKIA were high, leaving 17/18 HKG-NRT-JFK-NRT-HKG intact till they do DTW again as DL , for DTW, they did have adverts on trams, buses etc but it didn't caught on, tried SEA with 332 with severe payload restriction, moved the route via NRT when the direct JFK was dropped, went alone again before it left, I think (but hope not) for good.

Interesting that you mention the economy in 1998. USA side was doing great in 1998. But there was the Asian Currency Crisis in 97-98 that must be what you are referring to.

Perhaps because MSP has more people who can afford to fly to expensive cities like HKG?

questions wrote:

Were NW’s Pacific operations profitable? It seems NRT was well passed its prime (if it had one) when DL/NW merged. In this thread folks are questioning HKG viability. What did DL really get with NW’s Pacific routes (something touted at the time of the merger) that DL could not have built up themselves?

Yes very. NRT was not passed prime at that point (talking 80s and 90s and early 00) because nobody had access to Haneda, and, the types of a/c available to airlines (Like NW) couldn't fly ultra long haul from US to bypass Japan to places like China, Singapore, Bangkok, etc. The 747 was pretty much it-so NRT served as a decent hub to flow people from the US on to other points in Asia as well as cater to the biz folk going to Tokyo.

DL was lacking in access to the Pacific before NW. Now that its come out they were struggling to keep CVG afloat (let alone servicing Asia)-they tried from PDX, SLC is small-all they really had was ATL and to an extent JFK. They got DTW out of the deal-which contrary to what you hear in the main media-has a bustling metro area home to several fortune 500 hqs needing to send execs to Asia. Add to that DTW is in a prime geo location to flow traffic from the midwest and east coast on to Asia-it is ideal and far better than ATL FOR THAT RULE. MSP had a similar profile (But not as extensive) but when combined gave DL footing to be on par w/ UAL/AA at ORD and UAL at SFO in trans-pac which at that point they were not.

A final side note-closing MEM down helped raise yields and positioned ATL as the more prime hub in the southeast.

Lest we not forget that DTW was one of the worst airports in the country, if not the world, before the McNamara Terminal opened in 2002. Am I not mistaken that much of DTW's nonstop service to Asia service was built up *after* the new terminal opened?

SurfandSnow wrote:

Lest we not forget that DTW was one of the worst airports in the country, if not the world, before the McNamara Terminal opened in 2002. Am I not mistaken that much of DTW's nonstop service to Asia service was built up *after* the new terminal opened?

I think that was the initiative, DTW as a world gateway, which was a new thing. Prior to that, MSP being closer to HKG and being the company headquarters, there was no basis to expect a HKG flight would originate at DTW. That would have been weird.

Did Northwest need to Weight-Restrict the 747-400 on DTW-SEL, DTW-PEK, or DTW-PVG?

Flew non stop DTW to HKG many times on the 777LR it was great. To bad Delta keeps giving up on these routes to major international business centers like Dubai and Hong Kong. I bet they could make it work with 789's.

LAX772LR wrote:

UA857 wrote:

Why did Northwest operate MSP-HKG instead of DTW-HKG?

With what aircraft would they have flown DTW-HKG?

UA tried JFK-HKG with a less dense 744, and still had to block 80 seats for the initial ops. NW's 744s were (1) older, (2) more dense, (3) less premium-heavy... meaning they'd struggle even more, from a market that isn't much shorter, but has far less O&D.

True. I flew it 3 times RT in the 6 or so months UA operated the route. Once in coach and there were no more than 30 pax in that cabin - everyone had the 4 seat center section to themselves. The other 2 times in business class and it always felt very lonely - hard to even find other passengers!