BA to Start London Heathrow to Charleston, SC

a350lover · Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:36 pm

IndyHoosier wrote:
Wow, really surprising. There are dozens of cities I would have guessed before CHS.

There are probably 197 cities in USA that we all could have named before this one (CHS ranks 198th in the most populated cities of USA). According to Wikipedia, CHS urban area has a bit over 500K inhabitants, and the city itself just 134.000. Interestingly, CHS airport is also home to the Boeing facility that assembles the 787 Dreamliner

Is this probably the long-haul flight from LHR connecting to the least populated city?

LH748 · Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:44 pm

I love how many nonstop routes between Europe and the US exist now.
CHS had not been on my list at all. I always secretly hope that some other European airline besides Eurowings (used to be Air Berlin) would discover RSW. Congrats to the people in Charleston for this win.
Sooner or later we will see BA in STL though :bouncy:

PSU.DTW.SCE · Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:57 pm

There's outside of the box, but this isn't even anywhere near the box.

LTCM · Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:06 pm

a350lover wrote:
IndyHoosier wrote:
Wow, really surprising. There are dozens of cities I would have guessed before CHS.

There are probably 197 cities in USA that we all could have named before this one (CHS ranks 198th in the most populated cities of USA). According to Wikipedia, CHS urban area has a bit over 500K inhabitants, and the city itself just 134.000. Interestingly, CHS airport is also home to the Boeing facility that assembles the 787 Dreamliner

Is this probably the long-haul flight from LHR connecting to the least populated city?

That's a very misconceived way to look at it. The population of city limits in the US is heavily influenced by local and state laws. South Carolina is well known for making it very hard for cities to annex new land and as such their cities are undersized compared to their metros.

The only correct way to compare metro areas in the US is by MSA - a standard measure applied to all areas in the same manner. In this regard Charleston ranks 74th, with a population of 775,000.

neomax · Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:07 pm

flyoregon wrote:
southwest1675 wrote:
Pray for the folks in St Louis. This is a huge slap in the face to STL.

Really...? It's not like the city was destroyed by an alien battalion.

Might as well have been.

So basically the moral of the story is throw enough money at BA and anything can happen.

SelseyBill · Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:10 pm

ASA wrote:
Nobody mentioned Boeing?

I wonder how the 787 production line / delivery schedules have influenced global travel patterns from CHS?

......yeah, that was my first reaction, maybe BA wanted 787 parts quicker......

MAH4546 · Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:10 pm

canyonblue17 wrote:
evank516 wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:

Forget MIA. BA also flies to FLL. That serves the southern Palm Beach communities.

Forgot about FLL. Even less of a reason to go into PBI.

By far the most money is on Palm Beach Island which is almost 50 miles north of Fort Lauderdale but only three miles from PBI. And anyone who has lived in South Florida for more than a few years knows - much of the growth (and wealth) here continues to move north up the coast. BA - first goes to MIA. Growth goes north, BA goes to FLL. Growth goes north....BA goes to.......you would expect PBI. And from my experience wealthy travelers will pay quite a premium for convenience (not having to drive 50 miles) and saving time (flying non-stop).

Sorry, but no. That's ridiculous. Maybe in the 90s it was true, but the growth is evenly spread and and the wealth is heavily in Miami these days.

a350lover · Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:14 pm

LTCM wrote:
The only correct way to compare metro areas in the US is by MSA - a standard measure applied to all areas in the same manner. In this regard Charleston ranks 74th, with a population of 775,000.

Thanks for the insight, very adequate to be taken into account.

74th.... Yet a quite modest position on the ranking. It was truly surprising for everyone.

klm617 · Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:14 pm

LH748 wrote:
I love how many nonstop routes between Europe and the US exist now.
CHS had not been on my list at all. I always secretly hope that some other European airline besides Eurowings (used to be Air Berlin) would discover RSW. Congrats to the people in Charleston for this win.
Sooner or later we will see BA in STL though

I think because of the demographics of the St. Louis area DY is a better fit than BA for STL.

mutu · Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:18 pm

mutu wrote:
Yea the 2 weekly frequencies is the clue here. It's aimed at known tour operators activities and probably Boeing.

[/quote]
I did!!! Mention Boeing that is

SLCUT2777 · Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:22 pm

trexel94 wrote:
You can't be serious! St Louians must be fuming now.

I think destinations between Europe and the likes of STL, CVG, CLE are over. I think if BA plays with any additional North American destinations it will be the likes of PDX or SLC. DL may have beaten them in there.

jetskipper · Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:29 pm

This is like an April Fools thread from 10 years ago!

Armaghman · Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:34 pm

Is this really the only scheduled international flight.

I couldn’t even see a flight to Canada or Mexico on the wiki list.

Does international arrivals even function currently, are there holiday charters to Caribbean?

Would certainly beat the quests at JFK

peanuts · Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:35 pm

Some a.net folks need to get out more though. Charleston, SC is an amazing town. Great entertainment. People with solid, well paying jobs. Its port serves an important role for imports, including vehicles and vehicle parts.
Granted, all of this flying (e.g. DL/TPA-AMS, BA/CHS-LHR, LH/AUS-FRA) is coupled with a robust economy. There will be setbacks and withdrawals as well in the future. But for now there's reason to celebrate these routes and use them. Here we see the power of JV's in action. The three majors (with their partners) see room for TA nonstops and it gives them more available capacity at their hubs for other expansion.

LH658 · Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:41 pm

RDUDDJI wrote:
LH658 wrote:
Surprised they picked CHS over, Detroit, Islamabad, CLT, RDU, STL, ALA, and other cities.

CLT and RDU already have AA flying to LHR. They're a JV partner with BA. Although it would make sense if BA took over the RDU route one day, since it's no longer an AA hub.

I know, but with DL trying to enter RDU, thought it will be strategic maybe. Any industries or trade, that ties to UK in the area?

CHI787ORD · Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:56 pm

Volvo Cars has their only production facility in the Americas near Charleston. And as others have mentioned, BMW and Mercedes are nearby as well.

This provides a convenient one stop service to major production facilities for European automakers.

TheLion · Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:19 pm

jasoncrh wrote:
I just fainted.

Yup me too. This is inarguably the most shocking route launch in BA’s long history. What compares? It really is hard to find anything more surprising.

I did have this on my list of secondary possibilities for BA to launch, but it is nonetheless a huge surprise and the likes of St Louis and Colombus will be disappointed. They would definitely be better all-round business, VFR and leisure markets, as would Kansas City, Portland, Detroit and Minneapolis.

However it’s nice to see a truly adventurous route at long last, even if it is one in their largest long haul market. Kudos to their network planning team for finally having the guts to truly think outside the box and respect where it’s due from this very hardline BA critic.

But...there’s always a but...wouldn’t it be nice if they sent the 788 to any one of oodles of African cities who really should be connected to London direct...

dfdubflyer · Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:38 pm

Awesome for CHS! Truly an American gem and I hope many European tourists are able to come and enjoy it. My family has enjoyed our trips down there from BNA in the past and it has been cool to see their food and entertainment scene boom.

This works well for me now as a LHR resident with a wedding to attend in CHS in this summer!

4engines4lnghll · Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:49 pm

BA continues to surprise me. They've been successful with the new routes they've been starting in the US. Charleston is a wealthy city, im sure this will expand to more frequencies.

Airlinepilot129 · Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:06 am

I find it funny how small of a city Charleston actually is when given a Transatlantic flight. Shreveport, Louisiana has almost double the population and barely has mainline domestic service let alone international anything. This absolutely blows my mind. Next we can expect Albuquerque or something?

N292UX · Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:07 am

I will say, I wonder how much Hilton Head/South Carolina beaches has to do with this launch, too.

lavalampluva · Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:20 am

They don’t even have flights to the Caribbean or Mexico. I’m curious to what financial incentive was used to attract BA.

FA9295 · Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:23 am

lavalampluva wrote:
They don’t even have flights to the Caribbean or Mexico. I’m curious to what financial incentive was used to attract BA.

https://www.wyff4.com/article/charlesto ... n/23898224

$1.3 million.

From the source:

The South Carolina Department of Commerce has committed approximately $1.3 million for the air service’s first season to assist with the costs of the project.

WaywardMemphian · Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:36 am

I'll be very interested in seeing what Air Lingus does on w the A321LRs start to come on line. I thought we were to hear news from them by now. Dublin with it's preclearance helps get around airports that may be challenged on the customs end.

Damn. Shame BA doesn't have about 12 more 788s to play with.

Now imagine what the 797 may do with a marked fuel improvement over the 757 and 767.

CarlosSi · Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:47 am

Indeed I’m equally surprised to see a city you never really hear about when it comes to major TATL expansion speculation, receive such a route, even if it’s just a daily, twice weekly seasonal on their smallest wide body (767s being retired).

Maybe it’ll be served by a daily 747 someday :duck:

admanager · Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:57 am

Armaghman wrote:
Is this really the only scheduled international flight.

I couldn’t even see a flight to Canada or Mexico on the wiki list.

Does international arrivals even function currently, are there holiday charters to Caribbean?

Would certainly beat the quests at JFK

Charleston has full FIS facilities. I used them on a Miami Air charter to Bermuda a couple years ago by our company.

nikeherc · Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:09 am

Remember CHS is an Air Force base with regular flights from many overseas locations. There are also dreamlifter flights requiring customs clearance. Also be aware that tourism is the largest industry in South Carolina.

nikeherc · Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:11 am

Remember CHS is an Air Force base with regular flights from many overseas locations. There are also dreamlifter flights requiring customs clearance. Also be aware that tourism is the largest industry in South Carolina.

Shields · Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:23 am

Out of curiosity, how does the staffing for this flight work--specifically for the crew arriving in Charleston on Sunday night? Do they wait around until Thursday evening to return to LHR, or do they deadhead to a different U.S. city and then work a flight back to LHR on, say, Tuesday or Wednesday?

Cunard · Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:28 am

N292UX wrote:
I will say, I wonder how much Hilton Head/South Carolina beaches has to do with this launch, too.

And if you had taken the time to read ALL of the previous posts on this thread you would have read that your ''wondering'' has already been mentioned numerous times!

Great news for Charleston and the surrounding areas gaining this flight from British Airways.

I honestly think it's a matter of ''when'' rather than ''if'' British Airways will announce St. Louis in my opinion and as others have pointed out (yes I do read all posts) if it wasn't for the fact that Delta have already beaten British Airways to PDX I would have expected them to have announced Portland by now.

Other than the fact that Charleston is a beautiful city with a lot of history plus the fact that Hilton Head and Savannah are within reasonable driving distance and that a few major European car manufacturers have business locally people are overlooking the importance of Charleston as a major port with huge traffic growth over the last few years and growing.

Cunard · Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:33 am

CarlosSi wrote:
Indeed I’m equally surprised to see a city you never really hear about when it comes to major TATL expansion speculation, receive such a route, even if it’s just a daily, twice weekly seasonal on their smallest wide body (767s being retired).

Maybe it’ll be served by a daily 747 someday

I take it that you were joking with your post!

You do realise that British Airways only have three remaining B763's in their fleet with the final flight towards the end of November plus they are in Euro configuration with no dedicated business class so forget about the B763 as there soon be history at British Airways.

I won't even go there regarding your comment about a daily B744!

sulley · Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:05 am

WTF? Outside of the Battery and a few other places Charleston is a dump.

Why?

stl07 · Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:16 am

sulley wrote:
WTF? Outside of the Battery and a few other places Charleston is a dump.

Why?

Incentive money. Anywhere on a warm coast can fill a plane twice weekly seasonal, CHS is a charming town too

Midwestindy · Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:18 am

Can we chill with this "CHS is a mecca for tourism and industry"

Let's look at the facts, shall we:

It is half the size of the market of CMH

Sure there are manufacturing facilities in the area Boeing, Volvo, e.t.c but those aren't corporate HQs or North American HQs, so I doubt there is a serious amount of travel from those facilities to Europe daily.

CarlosSi · Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:50 am

Cunard wrote:
CarlosSi wrote:
Indeed I’m equally surprised to see a city you never really hear about when it comes to major TATL expansion speculation, receive such a route, even if it’s just a daily, twice weekly seasonal on their smallest wide body (767s being retired).

Maybe it’ll be served by a daily 747 someday

I take it that you were joking with your post!

You do realise that British Airways only have three remaining B763's in their fleet with the final flight towards the end of November plus they are in Euro configuration with no dedicated business class so forget about the B763 as there soon be history at British Airways.

I won't even go there regarding your comment about a daily B744!

Yup, I don't know much about the history of BA's 767s, but it doesn't seem like they were ever used very much for transatlantic, more or less intra-Europe (like LH's a300s). In a world of slots, aircraft get smaller anyways, especially out of LHR!

Hahah yeah, I know nobody would've ever thought AUS getting a daily 747 service (I certainly didn't), but AUS is far different than CHS. Hard to tell how this CHS-LHR route will evolve over time right now since it's pretty small; 788, twice weekly, for some of the year. Which will happen first; year-round? 5x weekly? Upgauge?

Lexy · Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:26 am

nikeherc wrote:
Remember CHS is an Air Force base with regular flights from many overseas locations. There are also dreamlifter flights requiring customs clearance. Also be aware that tourism is the largest industry in South Carolina.

It clears in ANC.

GSPFlyer · Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:30 am

MAH4546 wrote:
It's crazy but South Carolina, and Charleston in particular, is a hot bed for European manufacturing operations - BMW, Volvo, Mercedes-Benz Vans, Michellen.

True, but BMW and Michelin are in the Upstate, near GSP. Much closer to the nonstop flights at CLT than CHS.

There is also a Michelin manufacturing facility in Lexington, which is about halfway between CLT and CHS.

Atlwarrior · Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:00 am

Long overdue! Everyone loves Charleston! The city is thriving and is close to Savannah, Columbia, and Myrtle Beach. People are moving to South Carolina coast in droves. I am meeting new residents from the Northeast all the time in Myrtle Beach. This flight will definitely increase in frequency. Remember Charleston and Savannah are historical gem cities designed and inspire by King George ll influence.

rnav2dlrey · Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:24 am

Wynnster8 wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
Does anyone know if financial incentives were involved here? (e.g. similar to BA's PIT-LHR announcement)?

Yes, 1.3 Million Was involved.

https://www.wyff4.com/article/charlesto ... n/23898224

this is why.

although there may be some corporate traffic on the route (as others have pointed out), 2x/wk service isn't a frequency that's geared towards biz traffic.

that being said, i'm still shocked at both ends of this route. CHS of course, but also that this will be flown ex-LHR instead of LGW.

Chasensfo · Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:56 am

YYZLGA wrote:
It's entirely for the UK tourism market. Many British people are fascinated by American Southern culture, and the kinds of people who used to pour into LAS are now looking at other destinations as well like MSY and, BA hopes, now CHS.

It is funny, because when I heard this news, my first thought was, "Gee, living in the West Coast with friends who travel all the time, CHS almost never, ever comes up". But then I reached out to some friends in the UK and they know more about CHS than the average Californian! Well, power to them! I wish BA well, and this could be the biggest surprise route-wise of 2018! I honestly would have thought PDX, even with Delta, would get BA before CHS, let alone STL and the other cities without London flights!

casinterest · Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:59 am

rnav2dlrey wrote:
Wynnster8 wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
Does anyone know if financial incentives were involved here? (e.g. similar to BA's PIT-LHR announcement)?

Yes, 1.3 Million Was involved.

https://www.wyff4.com/article/charlesto ... n/23898224

this is why.

although there may be some corporate traffic on the route (as others have pointed out), 2x/wk service isn't a frequency that's geared towards biz traffic.

that being said, i'm still shocked at both ends of this route. CHS of course, but also that this will be flown ex-LHR instead of LGW.

The flight doesn't make sense if it is not from the Hub of BA. They are planning to connect Europe to Charleston , SC.
This is a tourism push as much as a business push. There is a LOT of good golf and beaches in the 60 miles NE/SW of Charleston with Myrtle Beach, Charleston, and Hilton Head involved.

Also NC/SC is becoming very popular for retirees and 2nd home owners fro the above reasons. Europeans have a good penchant for Golf and Beaches as well.

2x/wk is a start, but i think it is also a way to serve growing affluence near the coast without depending on everyone hopping a flight to JFK/ATL/CLT for their trips to and from Europe.

On the outside you also have the business ties with Boeing, but business traffic is a bonus here, as the real business traffic will still depend on time sensitive runs rather than a 2x/EWk flight. It will be interesting to see how well this flight works out for BA.

SCQ83 · Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:04 am

Midwestindy wrote:
Can we chill with this "CHS is a mecca for tourism and industry"

Let's look at the facts, shall we:

It is half the size of the market of CMH.

If you add CHS+SAV, it is not far away from the top. This is also a premium holiday market that is easy to stimulate (non-stop flight, holiday packages, advertisement in the UK...). Nobody in Europe would travel for leisure to Kansas City or Columbus no matter how many non-stop flights there would be from London or anywhere else.

IMO this route is surprising but not shocking. It is also a good example that in a globalised world, population is just another metric, not an absolute. I love reading angry posters

when their (mid-size) airport/city does not get service from carrier "X" yet a city half the population gets it. Like BA or Lufthansa are clueless. In this world you have many "small" cities that are global destinations (Charleston, Key West, Dubrovnik, Ibiza, Mykonos...) and many mid/large-sized cities that have 0 interest on a global scale.

Waterbomber · Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:10 am

VS4ever wrote:
well the 788 was supposed to be a hub buster, that's what so many said when it was first launched, It appears BA is following that lead. This is about as crazy as Leicester winning the English Premier League in 2015/2016.. Not sure it would have been 5,000 to 1 odds, but I don't think a single person would have picked CHS as the next on the list.

Now it is seasonal, so that in itself makes sense and 2 weekly is not hugely risky on the number of seats in the market. But wow, not expected.

My question is and i would be curious to the answers. Does the 2 weekly open up the possibility of more of these limited frequency options coming soon. They have a couple of 4 and 5 weekly, but going to 2 suggests a different strategy... RSW? for example, as a Brit, I know we love Florida, although most go to MCO for obvious reasons, but the Fort Myers area, can afford you access up to Tampa and across and down to the Keys if you are tourist. Not so good for yields mind you, although little competition and a more discerning non-mickey town flyer and you never know?

Any other places people think could benefit from this type of service (somewhat realistically)

Dont be ridiculous.
1. There is one of the world's largest hubs on one end
2. Call me again when BA makes a year-round profit on this route.

Arion640 · Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:15 am

CarlosSi wrote:
Cunard wrote:
CarlosSi wrote:
Indeed I’m equally surprised to see a city you never really hear about when it comes to major TATL expansion speculation, receive such a route, even if it’s just a daily, twice weekly seasonal on their smallest wide body (767s being retired).

Maybe it’ll be served by a daily 747 someday

I take it that you were joking with your post!

You do realise that British Airways only have three remaining B763's in their fleet with the final flight towards the end of November plus they are in Euro configuration with no dedicated business class so forget about the B763 as there soon be history at British Airways.

I won't even go there regarding your comment about a daily B744!

Yup, I don't know much about the history of BA's 767s, but it doesn't seem like they were ever used very much for transatlantic, more or less intra-Europe (like LH's a300s). In a world of slots, aircraft get smaller anyways, especially out of LHR!

Hahah yeah, I know nobody would've ever thought AUS getting a daily 747 service (I certainly didn't), but AUS is far different than CHS. Hard to tell how this CHS-LHR route will evolve over time right now since it's pretty small; 788, twice weekly, for some of the year. Which will happen first; year-round? 5x weekly? Upgauge?

BA had more long haul configured 767’s than they ever did short haul. There was 7 Short haul configured 767’s and 20+ long haul configured ones.

Andy33 · Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:28 am

CassidysVacay wrote:
I cannot wait! Spotting a BA 787 is something I'm really looking forward to!!

You wouldn't have had a problem doing that anyway as their 787-10 order will inevitably be assembled in Charleston.

Midwestindy · Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:44 am

SCQ83 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Can we chill with this "CHS is a mecca for tourism and industry"

Let's look at the facts, shall we:

It is half the size of the market of CMH.

If you add CHS+SAV, it is not far away from the top. This is also a premium holiday market that is easy to stimulate (non-stop flight, holiday packages, advertisement in the UK...). Nobody in Europe would travel for leisure to Kansas City or Columbus no matter how many non-stop flights there would be from London or anywhere else.

IMO this route is surprising but not shocking. It is also a good example that in a globalised world, population is just another metric, not an absolute. I love reading angry posters when their (mid-size) airport/city does not get service from carrier "X" yet a city half the population gets it. Like BA or Lufthansa are clueless. In this world you have many "small" cities that are global destinations (Charleston, Key West, Dubrovnik, Ibiza, Mykonos...) and many mid/large-sized cities that have 0 interest on a global scale.

1. I have no stake in this flight, the two airports I fly out of the most have adequate European service
2. There are businesses who travel from MCI/CMH-Europe, not to mention US based travelers travel to Europe as well, it isn't only Euro POS
3. With all due respect to all the CHS people, Charleston is in no way on the same level as Ibiza or Mykonos in the global arena, I'm actually quite shocked that you said that....

LHRFlyer · Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:40 am

This will be an interesting route to watch.

It’s a valid question whether there is scope to add more low frequency seasonal long-haul routes. Given what’s involved in setting up new long-haul outstations, I would have thought not, but BA clearly thinks otherwise.

I guess it could be similar to the approach of launching low frequency seasonal short-haul routes at Heathrow in terms of capturing premium leisure traffic.

BA777FO · Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:41 am

LH658 wrote:
Surprised they picked CHS over, Detroit, Islamabad, CLT, RDU, STL, ALA, and other cities.

It's a function of slot availability - it follows the trend of reduced short haul demand to predominantly business destinations on Wednesday/Thursday afternoons and Sundays to places like Frankfurt, Dusseldorf, Brussels etc and adding the recently announced Bastia and Prevaza.

CHS is perfectly suited to a 2 per week service, there's no point launching St. Louis or Islamabad without being able to do it 5x week or daily.

This is a very common starting/end point for Brits on the Southern driving holidays on the route from CHS/SAV-ATL-BNA-MEM-MSY. BA now cover all of those points except Memphis. Obviously no competition to CHS and the nearest airport, ATL, is still a significant drive away.

BigGSFO · Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:47 am

maps4ltd wrote:
BA doesn't even serve Charlotte, a major Oneworld airline hub, yet it's now going to CHS.

Honestly, I would've thought that a leisure route like this would go into LGW, alongside Orlando and Punta Canada and the like.

They don't have to serve CLT with their own metal given the AA/BA JV.

kimimm19 · Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:17 am

sevenair wrote:
New global links for the new global Britain. Well done BA!

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