Ethiopian drops ADD-DUB-LAX, adds ADD-LFW(Lomé)-LAX

Skyblue39 · Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:11 am

Per the Ethiopian Airlines Ireland FB Page, last flight from ADD to LAX will be on 12th December.

Dublin becomes a tag on to Madrid ET712/ET713

ADD-MAD-DUB-MAD-ADD

My original ET504/ET505 that I had booked for February from Dublin to Addis Ababa got reissued onto ET712/ET713

ghdc10 · Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:24 am

Can you provide a link? Nothing on the page you reference. Very weird if true.

Skyblue39 · Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:32 am

ghdc10 wrote:
Can you provide a link? Nothing on the page you reference. Very weird if true.

It’s stated in the comments on the Facebook website.
If you do a dummy booking in ET website, LAX is removed and like I said above, my ET504/505 was reissued.

slcdeltarumd11 · Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:53 am

This can't be surprising to anyone. The amazing thing is it lasted as long as it did!

LAXintl · Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:00 am

Looks correct. Dont see flights in GDS. Only show UA codeshare via IAD.

Chasing after distant diaspora traffic and selling incredibly low fares to fill the intermediate DUB segment was not a winning formula.

Reminds me of the the many failed 5th freedom diaspora fueled flights operated by likes of Biman, PIA etc.

believeinflight · Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:02 am

Maybe they might be closing Dublin, and making LAX nonstop.

DeltaPrince · Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:03 am

Saw this one coming.

janders · Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:13 am

Their LAX operation was always odd. They operated at T-6, away from their international Star partners (and lounge facilities) at TBIT. Also plane sat at LAX for 14-hours, something that cant be cheap.

And yes they had some incredibly cheap fares to Ireland. Saw $400 fares regularly last summer.

FSDan · Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:21 am

Will the tech stops on ADD-ORD and ADD-IAD still be at DUB? I'd assume so since they're keeping as a destination.

Too bad LAX will no longer have carriers from all 6 inhabited continents, but it isn't a surprise this flight struggled once EI entered the LAX-DUB market.

lightsaber · Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:30 am

FSDan wrote:
Will the tech stops on ADD-ORD and ADD-IAD still be at DUB? I'd assume so since they're keeping as a destination.

Too bad LAX will no longer have carriers from all 6 inhabited continents, but it isn't a surprise this flight struggled once EI entered the LAX-DUB market.

I'm sad LAX lost its one Africa flight, but there are just too many other options.

UPlog · Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:39 am

My neighbor is Ethiopian doctor and seemingly whenever family members travel home they took Emirates or Turkish.
He once told me bottom of barrel traffic flew ET and Saudia for what its worth.

The777Man · Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:47 am

Very sad to see them stop LAX.

I think they were also trying to LAX-Africa traffic not just Ethiopia but lots of competition and less complicated ways to get there.

The777Man

PSAatSAN4Ever · Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:03 am

I give them credit for trying, but I think the tech-stop and lack of a premium passengers is what did it in.

On a related note, does this remove LAX from the six-continent club? I know it's debatable as to whether LAX truly has qualified for that since the departure of Egyptair, but it was an African airline flying to its hub, so I personally count it as such.

LAX772LR · Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:26 am

believeinflight wrote:
Maybe they might be closing Dublin, and making LAX nonstop.

There's no aircraft on the planet that can do ADD-LAX westbound with a profit-potential payload.
ET has 77Ls, and even those aren't up to such a task.

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
On a related note, does this remove LAX from the six-continent club? I know it's debatable as to whether LAX truly has qualified for that since the departure of Egyptair, but it was an African airline flying to its hub, so I personally count it as such.

LAX was never in it.

MS and ET stopped in JFK and DUB respectively. That's hardly different than taking any number of airlines that could connect California to African destinations 1stop.

eamondzhang · Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:48 am

believeinflight wrote:
Maybe they might be closing Dublin, and making LAX nonstop.

Never going to happen with ADD's altitude. Even flying to east coast is a struggle so forget about west coast.

Although it's sad but I gave them credit for the experiment. Too bad it didn't work out, but with ET there ought to have some bigger fish to fry. I believe it also has a side effect on EI's decision to relaunch LAX no?

Michael

timpdx · Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:12 am

I really wanted to try ET DUB-LAX one way from Europe last July. Catch FR up to DUB and onward. But they were just not competitive at all one way, had to go with U2 and DY through LGW. Oh well, I tried.

planemanofnz · Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:25 am

If true, bad that DUB loses its sole non-stop link to Africa-proper (excluding the Northern African holiday resorts), but good that it remains on ET's network, via MAD.

I wonder about two things - 1) if there'll be fifth-freedom rights on DUB - MAD, and 2) whether this opens the door for another DUB - Africa route, like to JNB?

Cheers,

C.

seabosdca · Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:38 am

ADD-LAX is almost exactly 8000 nm on the great circle, most of it into the wind. That would be a serious challenge for the 77L, and not realistically flyable by any other ET aircraft, even if ADD were at sea level. Taking off from ADD's altitude, no aircraft within our lifetimes will be able to fly it nonstop.

LAX-Africa in general suffers from being too long for the type of traffic (mostly VFR) it can attract. Those passengers will be transiting, mostly in Europe, for a long time.

LH658 · Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:18 am

Seems like they might try IAH. I would assume it more profitable out of IAH. Just assuming...

Though is there DUB operation even profitable? Or is it all just 5th freedom traffic? between USA - Ireland and Ireland - Africa?

planemanofnz · Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:47 am

LH658 wrote:
Though is there DUB operation even profitable? Or is it all just 5th freedom traffic? between USA - Ireland and Ireland - Africa?

ET said last year that, at DUB, "we’re now seeing positive results," and "we are now attracting both leisure and business traffic." After that, earlier this year, they said "[DUB] figures have grown by 37%, load factor increased by 26% and business class traffic went up a huge 79%."

See: https://businessandfinance.com/news/eth ... rs-dublin/.

They seem to be doing well - I mean, the Irish economy is booming, and there is a growing African diaspora in Dublin, plus minimal non-stop competition to Africa. That seems like a recipe for growth, demand, and yield - but who knows? Clearly not good enough to maintain a non-stop.

Cheers,

C.

SCQ83 · Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:57 am

Will they sell 5th freedom rights on MAD-DUB?

How many times has MAD been changed? I remember it has been routed ADD-FCO-MAD, ADD-MAD, ADD-BCN-MAD (never flown), ADD-MAD-BCN, ADD-LIS-MAD (never flown), ADD-MAD-LIS (never flown) and now ADD-MAD-DUB.

SurlyBonds · Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:11 am

lightsaber wrote:
I'm sad LAX lost its one Africa flight, but there are just too many other options.

Doesn't Egyptair fly to LAX?

Skyblue39 · Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:15 am

believeinflight wrote:
Maybe they might be closing Dublin, and making LAX nonstop.

Did you not read what I wrote? LAX is removed. Dublin is tagged on to Madrid.

Galwayman · Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:17 am

No fifth freedoms DUB > MAD

Most ET traffic from Dub is to Cape Town which is now a 2 stop service

There’s room here for EI to launch DUB > CPT nonstop ( winter only ) with feed from the Americas

jmmadrid · Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:41 am

SCQ83 wrote:
Will they sell 5th freedom rights on MAD-DUB?

How many times has MAD been changed? I remember it has been routed ADD-FCO-MAD, ADD-MAD, ADD-BCN-MAD (never flown), ADD-MAD-BCN, ADD-LIS-MAD (never flown), ADD-MAD-LIS (never flown) and now ADD-MAD-DUB.

It certainly looks like ET do not know what to do with MAD.

I wonder what the real problem is.

Lack of passengers? Low yields? Lack of premium traffic? Lack of adequate plane?

The fact that they don't chop it and continue trying different solutions makes it even more intriguing.

a350lover · Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:45 am

No local rights to commercialize DUB-MAD-DUB

EightyFour · Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:56 am

SCQ83 wrote:
Will they sell 5th freedom rights on MAD-DUB?

How many times has MAD been changed? I remember it has been routed ADD-FCO-MAD, ADD-MAD, ADD-BCN-MAD (never flown), ADD-MAD-BCN, ADD-LIS-MAD (never flown), ADD-MAD-LIS (never flown) and now ADD-MAD-DUB.

Why are they so keen on serving MAD? And if they are so keen, why does it seem like a poor afterthought when it comes to these 5th freedom flights to MAD?

LAX772LR · Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:12 am

SurlyBonds wrote:
Doesn't Egyptair fly to LAX?

...not for nearly two decades.

runway23 · Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:30 am

EightyFour wrote:
Why are they so keen on serving MAD? And if they are so keen, why does it seem like a poor afterthought when it comes to these 5th freedom flights to MAD?

Seems like they aren't requesting any 5th freedoms anymore in Europe.

LupineChemist · Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:46 am

Is DUB-MAD even considered fifth freedom? Especially for new services, it's considered part of the single aviation market so would be cabotaje in that case.

B747forever · Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:48 am

I am more surprised that ET lasted so long at LAX. They were consistently the cheapest option to Africa. However, I am surprised they are ending the service just before the busy Christmas/New Years travel period, yet are going to operate it all through November and early December which is one of the slowest travel periods.

intotheair · Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:57 am

They were the cheapest option to anywhere. A lot of the TATL Star award tickets on UA this summer out of LAX went pretty fast, but there was plenty of inventory to be found on ET.

BreezyIAH · Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:36 am

Maybe they’ll move it to IAH?

Miami · Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:31 am

Last flight is actually December 14: https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... -dec-2018/

YoungDon · Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:04 pm

BreezyIAH wrote:
Maybe they’ll move it to IAH?

ADD-LOS-IAH?

Make it happen ET!

TheKennady2 · Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:20 pm

Never understood this Service, LA is huge market but has alot of competition and has 1 stop options to major African destinations via the EU. Little connectivity in LAX means this targeted mostly O&D to Africa from LA and the service flies over more capable connecting hubs along with making a tech stop both ways. Airports like ORD, IAD, EWR are better suited for ET service, LA just does not have the geography, and its to far to be a viable place to serve from Africa.

Kadish · Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:46 pm

jmmadrid wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
Will they sell 5th freedom rights on MAD-DUB?

How many times has MAD been changed? I remember it has been routed ADD-FCO-MAD, ADD-MAD, ADD-BCN-MAD (never flown), ADD-MAD-BCN, ADD-LIS-MAD (never flown), ADD-MAD-LIS (never flown) and now ADD-MAD-DUB.

It certainly looks like ET do not know what to do with MAD.

I wonder what the real problem is.

Lack of passengers? Low yields? Lack of premium traffic? Lack of adequate plane?

The fact that they don't chop it and continue trying different solutions makes it even more intriguing.

They may be making money or see an ulterior potential that we cant see....but I guess that if they keep the route is for a reason.

LAXdude1023 · Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:56 pm

It makes sense. LAX has too much competition and the Ethiopian community there isn't that large to begin with.

airbazar · Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:01 pm

YoungDon wrote:
BreezyIAH wrote:
Maybe they’ll move it to IAH?

ADD-LOS-IAH?

Make it happen ET!

Lome is their West African hub. If they were to do something like that it would be ADD-LFW-IAH.

jetero · Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:18 pm

airbazar wrote:
YoungDon wrote:
BreezyIAH wrote:
Maybe they’ll move it to IAH?

ADD-LOS-IAH?

Make it happen ET!

Lome is their West African hub. If they were to do something like that it would be ADD-LFW-IAH.

They fly (or flew) to EWR from LFW.

They flew to GRU.

Very difficult to make connections work both ways on long-haul routes with those stage lengths because you have to add a second bank or long ground times at the outstation.

slcdeltarumd11 · Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:33 pm

YoungDon wrote:
BreezyIAH wrote:
Maybe they’ll move it to IAH?

ADD-LOS-IAH?

Make it happen ET!

IAH would make ALOT more sense from a geographical standpoint. LA made no sense and was doomed for failure.

AF022 · Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:58 pm

UPlog wrote:
My neighbor is Ethiopian doctor and seemingly whenever family members travel home they took Emirates or Turkish.
He once told me bottom of barrel traffic flew ET and Saudia for what its worth.

What a snob. He could fly Ethiopian from LAX to Addis but instead takes a slower connection on Emirates or Turkish? Its great to see this guy supporting his community. Ethiopian is a great airline. To compare it with Saudia is laughable.

airbazar · Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:30 pm

AF022 wrote:
UPlog wrote:
My neighbor is Ethiopian doctor and seemingly whenever family members travel home they took Emirates or Turkish.
He once told me bottom of barrel traffic flew ET and Saudia for what its worth.

What a snob. He could fly Ethiopian from LAX to Addis but instead takes a slower connection on Emirates or Turkish? Its great to see this guy supporting his community. Ethiopian is a great airline. To compare it with Saudia is laughable.

Geez talk about making baseless statements. You know nothing about the situation. Maybe they prefere the layover in Dubai or Istanbul vs. Dublin. I would too. If I had a choice between IST, DXB, or DUB I know DUB wouldn't be my preferred choice.

berari · Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:33 pm

Skyblue39 wrote:
believeinflight wrote:
Maybe they might be closing Dublin, and making LAX nonstop.

Did you not read what I wrote? LAX is removed. Dublin is tagged on to Madrid.

I still see ET's flight to LAX in the GDS and on ET's website via DUB. Could it be that ET is dropping the 5th freedom portion between DUB and LAX? I can book ADD-LAX well into June 2019 today.

It does appear to be changing DUB to a tech stop rather than a stop that offers 5th freedom.

eicvd · Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:39 pm

airbazar wrote:
AF022 wrote:
UPlog wrote:
My neighbor is Ethiopian doctor and seemingly whenever family members travel home they took Emirates or Turkish.
He once told me bottom of barrel traffic flew ET and Saudia for what its worth.

What a snob. He could fly Ethiopian from LAX to Addis but instead takes a slower connection on Emirates or Turkish? Its great to see this guy supporting his community. Ethiopian is a great airline. To compare it with Saudia is laughable.

Geez talk about making baseless statements. You know nothing about the situation. Maybe they prefere the layover in Dubai or Istanbul vs. Dublin. I would too. If I had a choice between IST, DXB, or DUB I know DUB wouldn't be my preferred choice.

You can’t say that & not expand on your opinion

Skyblue39 · Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:58 pm

airbazar wrote:
AF022 wrote:
UPlog wrote:
My neighbor is Ethiopian doctor and seemingly whenever family members travel home they took Emirates or Turkish.
He once told me bottom of barrel traffic flew ET and Saudia for what its worth.

What a snob. He could fly Ethiopian from LAX to Addis but instead takes a slower connection on Emirates or Turkish? Its great to see this guy supporting his community. Ethiopian is a great airline. To compare it with Saudia is laughable.

Geez talk about making baseless statements. You know nothing about the situation. Maybe they prefere the layover in Dubai or Istanbul vs. Dublin. I would too. If I had a choice between IST, DXB, or DUB I know DUB wouldn't be my preferred choice.

What are you even talking about??? The passengers from LAX to ADD don’t even disembark the aircraft in Dublin ..... talk about a baseless statement from you!!

nascar1 · Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:24 pm

According to airlineroute:

Ethiopian Airlines on mid-day Wednesday (17OCT18) re-opened reservations for service to Los Angeles for travel on/after 16DEC18, after the airline removed reservations and schedule listing on/after 16DEC18. From 16DEC18, the Star Alliance carrier will continue to serve Addis Ababa – Dublin – Los Angeles route 4 times a week, with 787-8 Dreamliner aircraft.

Upon re-opening reservation, the airline does not have local traffic rights on Dublin – Los Angeles sector.

ET504 ADD0125 – 0650DUB0750 – 1035LAX 788 x146
ET505 LAX2335 – 1735+1DUB1835+1 – 0525+2ADD 788 x146

Separately, with the initial service adjustment on Addis Ababa – Dublin – Los Angeles, ET from 15DEC18 will extend 4 weekly Addis Ababa – Madrid sector to Dublin, on board 787-8 aircraft. ET does not have local traffic rights on Madrid – Dublin sector.

ET712 ADD2345 – 0515+1MAD0615+1 – 0800+1DUB 788 x135
ET713 DUB1645 – 2030MAD2130 – 0700+1ADD 788 x246

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/281078/ethiopian-airlines-re-opens-los-angeles-bookings-from-mid-dec-2018-dublin-changes/

csavel · Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:48 pm

airbazar wrote:
AF022 wrote:
UPlog wrote:
My neighbor is Ethiopian doctor and seemingly whenever family members travel home they took Emirates or Turkish.
He once told me bottom of barrel traffic flew ET and Saudia for what its worth.

What a snob. He could fly Ethiopian from LAX to Addis but instead takes a slower connection on Emirates or Turkish? Its great to see this guy supporting his community. Ethiopian is a great airline. To compare it with Saudia is laughable.

Geez talk about making baseless statements. You know nothing about the situation. Maybe they prefere the layover in Dubai or Istanbul vs. Dublin. I would too. If I had a choice between IST, DXB, or DUB I know DUB wouldn't be my preferred choice.

Well to be fair UPlog said that his Ethiopian doctor friend specifically said "bottom of the barrel traffic flew ET and Saudia". He didn't say his friend preferred the layover in Dubai or Istanbul. So it is easy to read it as a snobby statement. Whether or not that is accurate is something only the neighbor actually knows for sure.

On a personal level, I've only flown two out of the four (Ethiopian and Emirates) and thought Ethiopian was a fine airline - and Emirates was overrated but chacun a son gout!

EWR777 · Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:11 pm

Anyone know how their EWR service is doing?

bfitzflyer · Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:11 pm

Might make sense to move to SFO, bigger Star hub assuming the cooperate well with UA. Also premium heavy business market.

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