WW ending STL, CVG, CLE

stl07 · Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:42 am

WW KEF-STL JAN 0.4>0.1[0] FEB 0.4>0[0] MAR 0.4>0[0]

For those of you who don't read the STL or OAG thread, WW is canceling STL service, at least for now.
You can still book flights for these dates, but the prices are super high, which is what usually happens when a flight is being canceled.

stlgph · Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:44 am

Cancellation or suspension?

Remember, if your mother says she loves you, check it out.

enilria · Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:45 am

Better discussed in the thread you took it from. But only a 2.5 month gap. Not really a big deal.

BN727227Ultra · Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:46 am

Looking over my glasses, I thought that was WN...

stl07 · Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:48 am

enilria wrote:
Better discussed in the thread you took it from. But only a 2.5 month gap. Not really a big deal.

Your threads are very good, but this impacts more than just people in the US, which is what your threads covers, so people in say Iceland will miss it because they might not look at your threads

YellowJ · Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:08 am

stl07 wrote:
enilria wrote:
Better discussed in the thread you took it from. But only a 2.5 month gap. Not really a big deal.

Your threads are very good, but this impacts more than just people in the US, which is what your threads covers, so people in say Iceland will miss it because they might not look at your threads

I would be very much surprised if there were many Icelanders heading to St Louis. Perhaps Europeans would have been a better fit in your sentence; granted I wonder how many Europeans overall would use St. Louis as the initial destination to the USA.

stl07 · Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:11 am

YellowJ wrote:
stl07 wrote:
enilria wrote:
Better discussed in the thread you took it from. But only a 2.5 month gap. Not really a big deal.

Your threads are very good, but this impacts more than just people in the US, which is what your threads covers, so people in say Iceland will miss it because they might not look at your threads

I would be very much surprised if there were many Icelanders heading to St Louis. Perhaps Europeans would have been a better fit in your sentence; granted I wonder how many Europeans overall would use St. Louis as the initial destination to the USA.

There are usually one or 2 per flight from Iceland, but that's beside the point, I made this thread because STL has a suspension on its only TATL. Plus, I'm sure people in Iceland would like to know what is happening with their airport as well

airberlin2017 · Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:04 am

On my flight on 01.Oct. (about 180/208 Pax) to St. Louis with wowair were only 2 Germans (we), no visible Icelanders, 2 Britains, 2 Dutch and the rest Americans with US Passport in the immigration-queue.

777PHX · Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:15 am

Wish I could say I was surprised. The feed on the European side had to be non-existent.

Lapplander800 · Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:25 am

enilria wrote:
Better discussed in the thread you took it from. But only a 2.5 month gap. Not really a big deal.

There are no bookable flights after this "2.5 gap" if you look at WOW's webpage.

jetblueguy22 · Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:42 am

Why is everyone surprised about the lack of Icelandic passengers? That’s not who the flight is serving. It’s all about STL-Europe

lavalampluva · Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:58 am

WW is having financial problems right now. I’m sure there doing some route analysis. It’s the winter season coming up. They most likely wouldn’t be flying now regardless.

Yossarian22 · Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:56 am

stl07 wrote:
enilria wrote:
Better discussed in the thread you took it from. But only a 2.5 month gap. Not really a big deal.

Your threads are very good, but this impacts more than just people in the US, which is what your threads covers, so people in say Iceland will miss it because they might not look at your threads

Perhaps there should be a thread for WW suspensions.

It is now CVG, CLE, STL, SFO, and where else?

WW is an interesting experiment. I have a hard time seeing Norweigen succeeding, because point to point, low cost, long haul flying seems doomed to fail. But, the relatively short flights of U.S. to Iceland connecting to a short flight to Europe, seems like it could be feasible. For the most part they operate narrowbody planes and because they are flying smaller planes with many possible connections, they can operate in secondary cities that may not be much of a market of legacies with widebody equipment.

klm617 · Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:54 am

Yossarian22 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
enilria wrote:
Better discussed in the thread you took it from. But only a 2.5 month gap. Not really a big deal.

Your threads are very good, but this impacts more than just people in the US, which is what your threads covers, so people in say Iceland will miss it because they might not look at your threads

Perhaps there should be a thread for WW suspensions.

It is now CVG, CLE, STL, SFO, and where else?

WW is an interesting experiment. I have a hard time seeing Norweigen succeeding, because point to point, low cost, long haul flying seems doomed to fail. But, the relatively short flights of U.S. to Iceland connecting to a short flight to Europe, seems like it could be feasible. For the most part they operate narrowbody planes and because they are flying smaller planes with many possible connections, they can operate in secondary cities that may not be much of a market of legacies with widebody equipment.

DFW is also no longer bookable.

pmanni1 · Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:53 pm

PIT as well. I messaged Wow on facebook and they responded by saying STL is not suspended but that they don't have the spring/summer schedule finalized for all the cities yet.

gdg9 · Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:54 pm

DFW was always seasonal

Dominion301 · Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:57 pm

Lapplander800 wrote:
enilria wrote:
Better discussed in the thread you took it from. But only a 2.5 month gap. Not really a big deal.

There are no bookable flights after this "2.5 gap" if you look at WOW's webpage.

Probably since it's reverting to a seasonal service and the planned resumption date is outside of the current booking window.

Year-round to KEF from the likes of PIT, CVG and STL always seemed to be a stretch.

FLIHGH · Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:02 pm

enilria wrote:
Better discussed in the thread you took it from. But only a 2.5 month gap. Not really a big deal.

As of 9am eastern, there was a single post in your thread regarding the cancellation. Far more here...so not sure how you consider it better discussed over there when that thread has always focused on domestic changes.

These US cuts for WW should help tremendously with the overcrowding at KEF. It’ll be interesting to see what WOW does with the extra airframes. If they are truly hurting as much as people say, possibly selling/returning a plane or two will help short term, in addition to cutting the poorly performing routes.

Dominion301 · Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:10 pm

FLIHGH wrote:
enilria wrote:
Better discussed in the thread you took it from. But only a 2.5 month gap. Not really a big deal.

As of 9am eastern, there was a single post in your thread regarding the cancellation. Far more here...so not sure how you consider it better discussed over there when that thread has always focused on domestic changes.

These US cuts for WW should help tremendously with the overcrowding at KEF. It’ll be interesting to see what WOW does with the extra airframes. If they are truly hurting as much as people say, possibly selling/returning a plane or two will help short term, in addition to cutting the poorly performing routes.

WW would be wise to try and partner with an airline with high opposite seasonal fluctuations like TCX and TS are doing with their new seasonal 321-330 exchange partnership.

cvgComair · Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:55 pm

pmanni1 wrote:
PIT as well. I messaged Wow on facebook and they responded by saying STL is not suspended but that they don't have the spring/summer schedule finalized for all the cities yet.

That said, I contacted them when they suspended CVG/CLE for the winter and got the same response. Seems like that is their default customer service response to suspended routes.

izbtmnhd · Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:58 pm

enilria wrote:
Not really a big deal.

Except when it involves CLE. Then you start a WW/FI thread which implies both airlines are closing up shop permanently within days of each other even though FI has a hard restart date in March.

What did I miss?

enilria · Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:02 pm

Lapplander800 wrote:
enilria wrote:
Better discussed in the thread you took it from. But only a 2.5 month gap. Not really a big deal.

There are no bookable flights after this "2.5 gap" if you look at WOW's webpage.

WOW doesn’t sell schedules that far in advance in nearly all cases. Something we routinely discuss in the OAG thread. So it means nothing as of now that it’s not for sale then. It was never for sale for that period. The fact they suspended STL later than CLE or CVG means it is almost certainly temporary.

enilria · Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:05 pm

izbtmnhd wrote:
enilria wrote:
Not really a big deal.

Except when it involves CLE. Then you start a WW/FI thread which implies both airlines are closing up shop permanently within days of each other even though FI has a hard restart date in March.

What did I miss?

Both leaving is a bigger deal because let’s be honest, two carriers to Iceland is too many from all but a handful of USA cities. Nobody expects CLE to support two long term. That’s why that was interesting. STL can absolutely support one and if WW left FI would come in. Like CLE it is a one carrier market.

izbtmnhd · Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:10 pm

enilria wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:
enilria wrote:
Not really a big deal.

Except when it involves CLE. Then you start a WW/FI thread which implies both airlines are closing up shop permanently within days of each other even though FI has a hard restart date in March.

What did I miss?

Both leaving is a bigger deal because let’s be honest, two carriers to Iceland is too many from all but a handful of USA cities. Nobody expects CLE to support two long term. That’s why that was interesting. STL can absolutely support one and if WW left FI would come in. Like CLE it is a one carrier market.

You implied both were bailing permanently. FI had a hard restart date in the press release when they decided to drop the winter months.

Again, it's very strange how CLE news is handled on these boards at times.

As for STL, if WW was in decent financial shape I would say this isn't a big deal either. Yet they aren't. Any flight dropped has some real potential of not coming back.

mfe777 · Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:10 pm

klm617 wrote:
Yossarian22 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Your threads are very good, but this impacts more than just people in the US, which is what your threads covers, so people in say Iceland will miss it because they might not look at your threads

Perhaps there should be a thread for WW suspensions.

It is now CVG, CLE, STL, SFO, and where else?

WW is an interesting experiment. I have a hard time seeing Norweigen succeeding, because point to point, low cost, long haul flying seems doomed to fail. But, the relatively short flights of U.S. to Iceland connecting to a short flight to Europe, seems like it could be feasible. For the most part they operate narrowbody planes and because they are flying smaller planes with many possible connections, they can operate in secondary cities that may not be much of a market of legacies with widebody equipment.

DFW is also no longer bookable.

DFW was seasonal from the start, always meant to wrap up in October. They have averaged over 90% load factors in the full months since they started the DFW route, so if they don't return it's more of a problem with the company, their finances, operations, and ability to turn a profit on a route (which we have all heard they have major problems with).

Icelandair is year-round on KEF-DFW. American is seasonal.

Jshank83 · Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:31 pm

I emailed the PR person at STL that I was looking to book a flight in Feb but all the fares jumped 10x. Got the response back that he would check into it. So, apparently they weren't aware of any change coming. I'll post whatever response I get back after they look into it.

Midwestindy · Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:43 pm

izbtmnhd wrote:
enilria wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:

Except when it involves CLE. Then you start a WW/FI thread which implies both airlines are closing up shop permanently within days of each other even though FI has a hard restart date in March.

What did I miss?

Both leaving is a bigger deal because let’s be honest, two carriers to Iceland is too many from all but a handful of USA cities. Nobody expects CLE to support two long term. That’s why that was interesting. STL can absolutely support one and if WW left FI would come in. Like CLE it is a one carrier market.

You implied both were bailing permanently. FI had a hard restart date in the press release when they decided to drop the winter months.

Again, it's very strange how CLE news is handled on these boards at times.

As for STL, if WW was in decent financial shape I would say this isn't a big deal either. Yet they aren't. Any flight dropped has some real potential of not coming back.

CLE people are really defensive about air service

kavok · Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:45 pm

With all of these suspensions, which WW destinations in the USA are still left operating over the winter? It seems like the majority of their USA operations have now been suspended for the winter.

arcticcruiser · Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:52 pm

enilria wrote:
Better discussed in the thread you took it from. But only a 2.5 month gap. Not really a big deal.

But not being discussed there.

Yossarian22 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
enilria wrote:
Better discussed in the thread you took it from. But only a 2.5 month gap. Not really a big deal.

Your threads are very good, but this impacts more than just people in the US, which is what your threads covers, so people in say Iceland will miss it because they might not look at your threads

Perhaps there should be a thread for WW suspensions.

It is now CVG, CLE, STL, SFO, and where else?

WW is an interesting experiment. I have a hard time seeing Norweigen succeeding, because point to point, low cost, long haul flying seems doomed to fail. But, the relatively short flights of U.S. to Iceland connecting to a short flight to Europe, seems like it could be feasible. For the most part they operate narrowbody planes and because they are flying smaller planes with many possible connections, they can operate in secondary cities that may not be much of a market of legacies with widebody equipment.

SFO, ARN and EDI.

izbtmnhd · Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:10 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:
enilria wrote:
Both leaving is a bigger deal because let’s be honest, two carriers to Iceland is too many from all but a handful of USA cities. Nobody expects CLE to support two long term. That’s why that was interesting. STL can absolutely support one and if WW left FI would come in. Like CLE it is a one carrier market.

You implied both were bailing permanently. FI had a hard restart date in the press release when they decided to drop the winter months.

Again, it's very strange how CLE news is handled on these boards at times.

As for STL, if WW was in decent financial shape I would say this isn't a big deal either. Yet they aren't. Any flight dropped has some real potential of not coming back.

CLE people are really defensive about air service

I'm defensive about posting factual information on here. Not starting a thread just to stir a hornet's nest. I guess some have a lower standard.

klm617 · Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:13 pm

My guess and I'm no expert is they are trying to figure what to do with the bank of flights that left the USA after midnight last summer to make them more attractive to customers and are still tinkering with that because some flights are already loaded up until October 2019

Jshank83 · Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:18 pm

kavok wrote:
With all of these suspensions, which WW destinations in the USA are still left operating over the winter? It seems like the majority of their USA operations have now been suspended for the winter.

BOS, ORD, DTW, LAX, EWR, PIT, MCO, BWI.

STL is part of winter if we want to get technical...

enilria · Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:30 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:
enilria wrote:
Both leaving is a bigger deal because let’s be honest, two carriers to Iceland is too many from all but a handful of USA cities. Nobody expects CLE to support two long term. That’s why that was interesting. STL can absolutely support one and if WW left FI would come in. Like CLE it is a one carrier market.

You implied both were bailing permanently. FI had a hard restart date in the press release when they decided to drop the winter months.

Again, it's very strange how CLE news is handled on these boards at times.

As for STL, if WW was in decent financial shape I would say this isn't a big deal either. Yet they aren't. Any flight dropped has some real potential of not coming back.

CLE people are really defensive about air service

I see that. It was the news article that I posted that from its headline made it appear the service was not coming back. I have no doubt they will have service from CLE to KEF next Summer. Two carriers would still be overkill though.

enilria · Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:33 pm

arcticcruiser wrote:
enilria wrote:
Better discussed in the thread you took it from. But only a 2.5 month gap. Not really a big deal.

But not being discussed there.
Yossarian22 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Your threads are very good, but this impacts more than just people in the US, which is what your threads covers, so people in say Iceland will miss it because they might not look at your threads

Perhaps there should be a thread for WW suspensions.

It is now CVG, CLE, STL, SFO, and where else?

WW is an interesting experiment. I have a hard time seeing Norweigen succeeding, because point to point, low cost, long haul flying seems doomed to fail. But, the relatively short flights of U.S. to Iceland connecting to a short flight to Europe, seems like it could be feasible. For the most part they operate narrowbody planes and because they are flying smaller planes with many possible connections, they can operate in secondary cities that may not be much of a market of legacies with widebody equipment.

SFO, ARN and EDI.

Or it’s not being discussed there because this small seasonal suspension got its own sub thread. Again, if people are going to just repost everything I post into separate threads then scan OAG yourself and I won’t have to.

777PHX · Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:56 pm

enilria wrote:
arcticcruiser wrote:
enilria wrote:
Better discussed in the thread you took it from. But only a 2.5 month gap. Not really a big deal.

But not being discussed there.
Yossarian22 wrote:

Perhaps there should be a thread for WW suspensions.

It is now CVG, CLE, STL, SFO, and where else?

WW is an interesting experiment. I have a hard time seeing Norweigen succeeding, because point to point, low cost, long haul flying seems doomed to fail. But, the relatively short flights of U.S. to Iceland connecting to a short flight to Europe, seems like it could be feasible. For the most part they operate narrowbody planes and because they are flying smaller planes with many possible connections, they can operate in secondary cities that may not be much of a market of legacies with widebody equipment.

SFO, ARN and EDI.

Or it’s not being discussed there because this small seasonal suspension got its own sub thread. Again, if people are going to just repost everything I post into separate threads then scan OAG yourself and I won’t have to.

Then don't post it if this hurts your feelings so much.

I don't know why you think you have sole ownership over a topic just because you posted a tiny blurb about it in a much larger post before this thread was created.

stlgph · Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:03 pm

enilria wrote:
arcticcruiser wrote:
enilria wrote:
Better discussed in the thread you took it from. But only a 2.5 month gap. Not really a big deal.

But not being discussed there.
Yossarian22 wrote:

Perhaps there should be a thread for WW suspensions.

It is now CVG, CLE, STL, SFO, and where else?

WW is an interesting experiment. I have a hard time seeing Norweigen succeeding, because point to point, low cost, long haul flying seems doomed to fail. But, the relatively short flights of U.S. to Iceland connecting to a short flight to Europe, seems like it could be feasible. For the most part they operate narrowbody planes and because they are flying smaller planes with many possible connections, they can operate in secondary cities that may not be much of a market of legacies with widebody equipment.

SFO, ARN and EDI.

Or it’s not being discussed there because this small seasonal suspension got its own sub thread. Again, if people are going to just repost everything I post into separate threads then scan OAG yourself and I won’t have to.

I dunno man, you be you, but if you're really upset that someone took something you casually mentioned in another thread, and are running with it somewhere else, perhaps rethink things.

...Just sayin.

TWA302 · Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:31 pm

I'll bump this up since it is now ending for GOOD. https://t.co/aWeKTNOk9S WW has issues..... Later WW. Thanks for the tease, but it is not surprising.

Jshank83 · Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:09 pm

I am pretty surprised they aren't coming back for next summer. Makes me wonder if they will be coming back for any of the seasonal routes not on the schedule yet.

stlgph · Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:13 pm

Disappointing, for sure. Aer Lingus would be lovely.

trexel94 · Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:59 pm

Well this is unfortunate but questions remain.

- STL shelled out a serious subsidy for a two year service run (I believe about 2 million dollars?). What happens to the subsidy? Will WW face a penalty?
- What does this mean for the STL market? Will another carrier fill the void? I'm confident someone will but what do I know?
- Its interesting (and somewhat ironic) that STL loses its (currently) only TATL service but MCI is gaining additional frequency through Iceland Air.

777PHX · Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:03 pm

trexel94 wrote:
Well this is unfortunate but questions remain.

- STL shelled out a serious subsidy for a two year service run (I believe about 2 million dollars?). What happens to the subsidy? Will WW face a penalty?
- What does this mean for the STL market? Will another carrier fill the void? I'm confident someone will but what do I know?
- Its interesting (and somewhat ironic) that STL loses its (currently) only TATL service but MCI is gaining additional frequency through Iceland Air.

The post on the Lambert website stated they didn't meet the conditions for any of the subsidies and WOW won't receive any of them.

stl07 · Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:08 pm

enilria wrote:
Better discussed in the thread you took it from. But only a 2.5 month gap. Not really a big deal.

Cut for good sir, that is why it warranted another thread

stl07 · Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:09 pm

777PHX wrote:
trexel94 wrote:
Well this is unfortunate but questions remain.

- STL shelled out a serious subsidy for a two year service run (I believe about 2 million dollars?). What happens to the subsidy? Will WW face a penalty?
- What does this mean for the STL market? Will another carrier fill the void? I'm confident someone will but what do I know?
- Its interesting (and somewhat ironic) that STL loses its (currently) only TATL service but MCI is gaining additional frequency through Iceland Air.

The post on the Lambert website stated they didn't meet the conditions for any of the subsidies and WOW won't receive any of them.

Good thing we held back our subsidies, unlike PIT, who had their 1 million stolen by onejet without flying the service.

Jshank83 · Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:39 pm

Also I am pretty sure STL wasn’t giving them any actual money. The subsidies were waived landing fees and marketing funding. I’m sure any marketing they already paid for is gone and I’ll be curious how landing fee payments will go now. I don’t know if they were refunding them back or just not collecting them.

enilria · Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:42 pm

stl07 wrote:
enilria wrote:
Better discussed in the thread you took it from. But only a 2.5 month gap. Not really a big deal.

Cut for good sir, that is why it warranted another thread

If it’s truly cut for good then agreed it deserves its own thread.

Having said that, why is it cut for good? Doesn’t add up. They are flying it until January which indicates it is much better than CLE or CVG. Certainly, CLE might come back but I think everybody thinks CVG is coming back. It sure appears to be better than CVG from the way they are acting.

Also, if WOW is continuing its build up in the USA then how are they not flying to STL next Summer? There are few choices better than STL. I think either they will actually be back or the airline is in much deeper trouble than I imagined.

ultrapig · Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:44 pm

I live in St. Louis and I think this is good for Lambert. Maybe its backwards thinking. WOW is great if you want to go to Iceland. Its also pretty good if you want a real cheap trip to some European cities.. However we already have one stop service through Dulles, JFK, Newark etc which is better than changing in Iceland.From where I sit it drew off some of the tourist travelers to Europe making it more difficult for a major carrier like BA to come to St. Louis and fill the back end with tourists.

enilria · Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:55 pm

ultrapig wrote:
I live in St. Louis and I think this is good for Lambert. Maybe its backwards thinking. WOW is great if you want to go to Iceland. Its also pretty good if you want a real cheap trip to some European cities.. However we already have one stop service through Dulles, JFK, Newark etc which is better than changing in Iceland.From where I sit it drew off some of the tourist travelers to Europe making it more difficult for a major carrier like BA to come to St. Louis and fill the back end with tourists.

Reading that statement from the airport it seems more focused on not paying the subsidy and less focused on whether they are coming back next Summer. I’m not convinced they aren’t.

stl07 · Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:58 pm

trexel94 wrote:
- Its interesting (and somewhat ironic) that STL loses its (currently) only TATL service but MCI is gaining additional frequency through Iceland Air.

That's because MCI doesn't have a carrier that's about to go bankrupted or require a brand new a321 delivered this year to sit on the ground for 20+ hours

ncflyer · Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:59 pm

JFK and Newark better than changing in KEF? Those are two of the most delay prone and dumpy airports anywhere but to each his/her own.

I have to assume other cities are getting cut too but StL announced it the most aggressively, perhaps to loudly announce it to other airlines that are being courted.

F9Fan · Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:04 am

Jshank83 wrote:
I am pretty surprised they aren't coming back for next summer. Makes me wonder if they will be coming back for any of the seasonal routes not on the schedule yet.

CLE says WW is coming back in the spring, but hasn't stated when exactly.

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