LGW L1011 Timetable services

DL_Mech · Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:06 pm

Cunard wrote:
Here is a link to the photo I was referring too in my earlier post although as I have already mentioned this is a new one to me and I will try and locate the others that I have already viewed on Flickr of the Eastern L1011-1 N382EA at LGW which were taken in February 1995 prior to the airline receiving their first DC10-30 from Alitalia.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/nickopix/ ... Hzh-KPsEhi

The caption should be changed as the a/c is N332EA.

sevenheavy · Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:24 pm

Cunard wrote:
I think it was the latter, as LGW was gaining itself as a reputable London gateway at the time with many of the US airlines present, TWA started seasonal JFK-LGW in June 1980 as an alternative to JFK-LHR.

Prior to 1980 TWA had operated a seasonal ABC flight JFK-LGW with B707 so they more or less knew there was a market at LGW to support the seasonal scheduled flights on JFK-LGW with the L1011 that started in June 1980 and ran for three seasons up until 1983.

Later on ( I believe 1984, although I’m not sure if there was a gap) TWA started a 3rd daily morning LHR-JFK on an L-1011 (TW709/708) which stayed until they ceased operating the route. At times they also resurrected the TW705/704 flight numbers with an evening departure (sometimes using a GF L-1011 crewed by TWA) from LHR-JFK.

I guess they figured that JFK was better served from LHR, but the L-1011 operated from LGW to BWI (sometimes with a tag on to FRA) and PIT (occasionally STL, but this was usually a B747) until being replaced by B762’s

carledwards · Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:39 pm

Cunard wrote:
Here is a link to the photo I was referring too in my earlier post although as I have already mentioned this is a new one to me and I will try and locate the others that I have already viewed on Flickr of the Eastern L1011-1 N382EA at LGW which were taken in February 1995 prior to the airline receiving their first DC10-30 from Alitalia.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/nickopix/ ... Hzh-KPsEhi

Great find and piece of detective work on the Eastern L1011 shortly serving LGW! I think this photo seals the deal!

R.e. the TWA services I asked about to start, It seems as though the original service was to JFK and have the schedule now.

Does anyone have the schedule to the later PIT and / or BWI service?
and which years these were?

Cunard · Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:56 pm

Thank you and I appreciate the comment, it took me under a minute to find that photo on Flickr and regarding your comment ''I think this photo seals the deal'' well I hope it does especially as some posters were more or less disagreeing with me :-)

Cunard · Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:02 pm

DL_Mech wrote:
Cunard wrote:
Here is a link to the photo I was referring too in my earlier post although as I have already mentioned this is a new one to me and I will try and locate the others that I have already viewed on Flickr of the Eastern L1011-1 N382EA at LGW which were taken in February 1995 prior to the airline receiving their first DC10-30 from Alitalia.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/nickopix/ ... Hzh-KPsEhi

The caption should be changed as the a/c is N332EA.

The caption on the photo maybe incorrect regarding the aircraft's registration but considering that you mentioned in your earlier post that you ''could not find any photos'' of an Eastern L1011 at LGW I would have thought that you could have congratulated me in finding a photo, it took me less than a minute to find it on Flickr, honestly it was less than a minute :-)

Obviously you have seen the photo on Flickr and I am sure your aware that you can make a comment on the photo, I notice you haven't done so regarding the incorrect registration!

DL_Mech · Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:23 pm

Cunard wrote:
Now before I get shot down again, I would have also queried this until I recently came across a couple of photos on Flickr showing the Eastern L1011 at LGW with a accompanying story regarding them briefly being operated on Miami to LGW prior to the airline receiving their DC0-30's.

Go to Flickr and search Eastern L1011 at Gatwick and hopefully your see the photos for yourself with the accompanying story.

I searched "Eastern L1011 Gatwick" and got this :

"Oops! There are no matches for “eastern l1011 gatwick”.
Please try broadening your search."

Cunard wrote:
The caption on the photo maybe incorrect regarding the aircraft's registration but considering that you mentioned in your earlier post that you ''could not find any photos'' of an Eastern L1011 at LGW I would have thought that you could have congratulated me in finding a photo, it took me less than a minute to find it on Flickr, honestly it was less than a minute

Obviously you have seen the photo on Flickr and I am sure your aware that you can make a comment on the photo, I notice you haven't done so regarding the incorrect registration!

I am not registered on Flickr. I'm sorry you were offended by my comment. It was not directed at you.

Cunard · Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:28 pm

It takes absolute seconds to register on Flickr and it's a very worthwhile site to sign up to :-)

On my search I typed in ''Eastern L1011 LGW'' and hey presto the photo came up first time :-)

DL_Mech · Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:42 pm

carledwards wrote:
R.e. the TWA services I asked about to start, It seems as though the original service was to JFK and have the schedule now.

Does anyone have the schedule to the later PIT and / or BWI service?
and which years these were?

Have you searched the TWA Skyliner employee newspaper? It is slow to search through, so be prepared to kill hours there.

Start here:

http://digital.shsmo.org/cdm/landingpage/collection/twa

Max Q · Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:34 am

I would think a basic L1011-1
just wouldn’t have the range for
MIA-LGW non stop, let alone the
return, perhaps heavily weight
restricted ?

timz · Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:08 am

carledwards wrote:
Does anyone have the schedule to the later PIT and / or BWI service?

LGW-BWI is in the 6/89 timetable. LGW-PIT was only in summer 1981? Was then 3/week, along with 3/week PIT-PHL-LHR.

TS-IOR · Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:43 am

ZuluTime wrote:
That was a Continental service with a DC10-30 with an Eastern code. The service was on a 747 by the following year.

1988 TriStar programme for British Airtours and British Airways at LGW:

Saturday
KT612 LGW 0625 - MAH - 1200 LGW KT613 Thomson Holidays
KT530 LGW 0740 - FAO - 1400 LGW KT531 Redwing Holidays
KT640 LGW 0855 - PMI - 1425 LGW KT641 Redwing & Intasun
KT634 LGW 1505 - PMI - 2035 LGW KT635 Thomson Holidays
KT502 LGW 1615 - ALC - 2200 LGW KT503 Redwing Holidays
KT642 LGW 1745 - PMI - 2315 LGW KT643 Redwing Holidays
BA568 LGW 2230 - ATH - 0700 LGW BA569 Britsh Airways scheduled service
KT438 LGW 2240 - MIR - 0545 LGW KT439 Thomson Holidays

Sunday
KT682 LGW 0135 - IBZ - 0715 LGW KT683 Intasun
KT692 LGW 0835 - IBZ - 1500 KT693 Redwing/Best Holidays
BA472 LGW 0930 - AGP 1530 LGW BA473 British Airways scheduled service
BA9503P LHR 0930 - 1005 LGW positioning leg - TriStar 200 to operate LGW-JED BA7466 at 1455, returns 0610 Monday as BA7467
KT488 LGW 1015 - ACE 1920 LGW KT489 Thomson Holidays
BA552 LGW 1345 - MLA 2105 LGW BA553 British Airways scheduled service
KT594 LGW 1640 - AGP 2255 LGW KT595 Redwing Holidays
KT462 LGW 1845 - TFS 0405 LGW KT463 Thomson Holidays
KT654 LGW 2245 - PMI - 0555 LGW KT655 Intasun

Monday
KT552 LGW 0130 - GRO - 0700 LGW KT553 Intasun
KT658 LGW 0655 - PMI - 2110 LGW KT659 Intasun (can't find where this W'd to)
KT670 LGW 0625 - IBZ - 1200 LGW KT671 Thomson Holidays
KT556 LGW 1415 - GRO - 1910 LGW KT557 Thomson Holidays
KT824 LGW 1625 - MXP - 2015 LGW KT825 Pilgrim Air
KT778 LGW 2110 - DLM - 0645 LGW KT779 Redwing/Owners Abroad
KT474 LGW 2155 - LPA - 0710 LGW KT475 Thomson Holidays
KT656 LGW 2245 - PMI - 0415 LGW KT657 Intasun

Tuesday
KT590 LGW 0645 - AGP -1300 LGW KT591 Thomson Holidays
KT620 LGW 0655 - PMI - 1225 LGW KT621 Redwing
KT952 LGW 1045 - HER - 1945 LGW KT953 Redwing
KT948 LGW 1345 - CHQ - LGW KT949 Various tour operators / shared flight
KT524 LGW 1445 - FAO - 2105 LGW KT525 Redwing
KT436 LGW 1545 - MIR - 2240 LGW KT437 Thomson Holidays
KT630 LGW 2300 - PMI - 0430 LGW KT631 Thomson Holidays
KT506 LGW 2230 - ALC - 0630 LGW KT507 Owners Abroad
BA7466 LGW 1455 - JED BA scheduled service, TriStar 200, lands back 0610 Wednesday BA7467

Wednesday
KT622 LGW 0045 - PMI - 0615 LGW KT623 Redwing
KT632 LGW 0630 - PMI - 1200 LGW KT633 Portland Holidays
KT972 LGW 1000 - RHO - 1900 LGW KT973 Redwing
KT782 LGW 1100 - DLM - 2035 LGW KT783 various tour operators / shared flight
KT970 LGW 1220 - RHO - 2120 LGW KT971 Intasun
KT458 LGW 1355 - TFS - 2315 LGW KT459 Thomson Holidays
KT678 LGW 2145 - IBZ - 0320 LGW KT679 Redwing
KT680 LGW 2250 - IBZ - 0425 LGW KT681 Intasun
BA7468 LGW 2210 - JED BA scheduled service, TriStar 200, landed back 1800 Thursday

Thursday
KT554 LGW 0130 - GRO - 0625 LGW KT555 Intasun
KT460 LGW 0735 - TFS - 1655 LGW KT461 Portland
KT526 LGW 0815 - FAO - 1435 LGW KT527 various tour operators / shared flight
KT486 LGW 1125 - ACE - 2035 LGW KT487 Redwing
KT958 LGW 1725 - HER - 0225 LGW KT959 Thomson Holidays
KT876 LGW 2000 - MLA - 0320 LGW KT877 Redwing/Intasun/Owners Abroad
KT784 LGW 2045 - DLM - 0620 LGW KT785 various tour operators / shared flight

Friday
KT672 LGW 0610 - IBZ - 1145 LGW KT673 Thomson Holidays
KT606 LGW 0755 - MAH - 1400 LGW KT607 Intasun
KT456 LGW 0930 - TFS - 1850 LGW KT457 various tour operators / shared flight
KT464 LGW 0955 - TFS - 1915 LGW KT465 Redwing
KT596 LGW 1405 - AGP - 2030 LGW KT597 various tour operators / shared flight
BA7466 departure 1455 to JED, BA scheduled service, TriStar 200, lands back 0610 Saturday then position to LHR
KT558 LGW 1545 - GRO - 2040 LGW KT559 Thomson Holidays
KT648 LGW 2210 - PMI - 0340 LGW Intasun
KT918 LGW 2135 - ATH - 0555 LGW Thomson Holidays
KT636 LGW 2255 - PMI - 0630 LGW Various tour operators / shared flight

This was also the year of the Dan-Air and Orion A300s and the Novair DC10-10s (which worked a lot harder than the Caledonian TriStars!). Wednesday nights in Ibiza must have been fun - two Caledonian TriStars, a Novair DC10, two BIA One-Elevens all to and from Gatwick alone.

Worldways Canada, American Trans Air, Delta (Cincinnati & Atlanta), TWA (Baltimore), Air Lanka also had TriStar operations through Gatwick in Summer 1988.

Summer 1988 there was no Novair, but Calair which changed name to Novair in 1989 adding two brand new 737-400 to the DC-10. In 1988 that Calair DC-10 had a flight to MIR on saturday night but was constantly on delay and most often departed on Sunday morning if not noon.

millionsofmiles · Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:50 am

Cunard wrote:
Thank you and I appreciate the comment, it took me under a minute to find that photo on Flickr and regarding your comment ''I think this photo seals the deal'' well I hope it does especially as some posters were more or less disagreeing with me

I will have to dig out my edition of Falcon (Eastern employee newspaper) which discussed the startup of the MIA-LGW route in detail.

I’m not persuaded that you are correct. You are going on a pic and something you read. They couldn’t even get the aircraft registration correct.

This could easily have been a one-off pre-inaugural flight or even a charter. If they can’t get the reg correct, the date could be wrong too.

I’ll wait to hear from someone who actually knows.

compensateme · Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:55 am

Internet sources indicate that EA inaugurated MIA-LGW with the DC-10. One DC-10 (N391EA) was in its fleet at the time of the route’s inception, when service was 3x weekly. It’s unlikely that EA operated the route with the L1011, unless it subbed for the DC-10 the few months only one was in the fleet.

Service began 7/15/1985, and N391EA was delivered on 6/27/85:

https://www.planelogger.com/Aircraft/Re ... 1EA/652033

Here’s an article from the Sun Sentinel from May 1985, announcing that EA had been awarded the flight and would start service two months later with the DC-10:

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/1985-0 ... ld-airways

A former a.netter researcher and wrote an article on the history of the route, stating it was operated with the DC-10 from inception. The articles no longer available, but here’s the thread discussing it:

viewtopic.php?t=148169

Here’s another a.net thread discussing the route, citing a source that said the route was operated with the DC-10 from inception (the thread’s so old all three ex-EA DC-10 were active with CO):

viewtopic.php?t=32095#p203839

amc737 · Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:02 pm

Long time reader, first time member

From Gatwick Aviation Society info the only Eastern L1011 to ever visit LGW was N332EA on 5 Feb 1985. As the service was announced in May 1985 I suspect this had nothing to do the MIA-LGW service

fjhc · Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:39 pm

I remember flying on a Caledonian Airways Tristar from Gatwick to Mombassa, via Athens, presumably because the Tristar couldn't make it the whole way! This was in April 1997, I was 6 and an overly excited child as it was the first time I had been on a plane.

Leej · Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:07 pm

My one and only time on a Tristar - TBG Airways LGW-PVK, I think EI-TBG. Still had the old TWA interior! This was back in 96 I think. Great flight.

bananaboy · Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:01 pm

ZuluTime wrote:
That was a Continental service with a DC10-30 with an Eastern code. The service was on a 747 by the following year.

1988 TriStar programme for British Airtours and British Airways at LGW:

...

Tuesday
KT506 LGW 2230 - ALC - 0630 LGW KT507 Owners Abroad

Wow, what a resource this site can be! This was my first flight that I can properly remember although I flew KT506/7 in 1987, so presumably the timings were the same in 1988. I certainly remember being a 7 year old giddy with excitement during that flight, staying up later than I was usually allowed, the funky little train to the South Terminal satellite and thinking it felt a bit more special to be (kind of) flying with British Airways.

I recall being totally in awe of the size of it. I had vague recollection of earlier flights with Dan Air, in particular walking down the aft stairs. This thing felt giant compared to that although I guess everything seems big when you're knee high to a grasshopper.

I also remember being told to use the lavs at the front, not paying attention and walking into the cockpit by mistake!

Thank you for the trip down memory lane.

Apologies for the slight thread detour here but by any chance do you have movements for Summer 1988 for British Island Airways?

Thanks again.

Mark

ZuluTime · Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:44 pm

Quite funny, I have much the same memory of my first flight which was a British Airtours TriStar a few years earlier than yours, although was sitting way down near the U-bend toilets at the back of the cabin.

The same publication for the details above has the British Island programme in it. PM me with what you're looking for and I'll try to dig it out.

by738 · Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:55 pm

the old Summer Timetables publication?

ZuluTime · Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:40 pm

Yes. I've also got quite a few original airline weekly flying programmes issued by their scheduling departments - don't think I have for BIA, but have a load of the old Britannia pink sheets.

londonistan · Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:54 pm

British Airways would regularly put -500s on the LHR-CDG route in the late 1970s/80s. Absolutely full.

millionsofmiles · Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:26 am

amc737 wrote:
Long time reader, first time member

From Gatwick Aviation Society info the only Eastern L1011 to ever visit LGW was N332EA on 5 Feb 1985. As the service was announced in May 1985 I suspect this had nothing to do the MIA-LGW service

Just what I thought.

millionsofmiles · Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:31 am

Cunard wrote:
DL_Mech wrote:
Cunard wrote:
Here is a link to the photo I was referring too in my earlier post although as I have already mentioned this is a new one to me and I will try and locate the others that I have already viewed on Flickr of the Eastern L1011-1 N382EA at LGW which were taken in February 1995 prior to the airline receiving their first DC10-30 from Alitalia.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/nickopix/ ... Hzh-KPsEhi

The caption should be changed as the a/c is N332EA.

The caption on the photo maybe incorrect regarding the aircraft's registration but considering that you mentioned in your earlier post that you ''could not find any photos'' of an Eastern L1011 at LGW I would have thought that you could have congratulated me in finding a photo, it took me less than a minute to find it on Flickr, honestly it was less than a minute

Obviously you have seen the photo on Flickr and I am sure your aware that you can make a comment on the photo, I notice you haven't done so regarding the incorrect registration!

You want to be congratulated for finding a pic?

BTW, turns out that Eastern flight in February 1985 was a one-off and not connected with the MIA-LGW scheduled service.

carledwards · Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:13 pm

amc737 wrote:
Long time reader, first time member

From Gatwick Aviation Society info the only Eastern L1011 to ever visit LGW was N332EA on 5 Feb 1985. As the service was announced in May 1985 I suspect this had nothing to do the MIA-LGW service

Great thanks for this info! Confirms how the photo on Flickr came to be!

On a side "Tri-Jet" note - does anybody know why the CP Air schedule information is missing from the online early 80's timetables?
Were these charters?

carledwards · Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:15 pm

ZuluTime wrote:
Quite funny, I have much the same memory of my first flight which was a British Airtours TriStar a few years earlier than yours, although was sitting way down near the U-bend toilets at the back of the cabin.

The same publication for the details above has the British Island programme in it. PM me with what you're looking for and I'll try to dig it out.

Do your summer timetables from 1983 (ish) show what the CP Air schedules were this year? I can see from the Anet photo database they flew in at this time, but no schedule info in the OAG guide on departedflights

Cunard · Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:43 pm

carledwards wrote:
ZuluTime wrote:
Quite funny, I have much the same memory of my first flight which was a British Airtours TriStar a few years earlier than yours, although was sitting way down near the U-bend toilets at the back of the cabin.

The same publication for the details above has the British Island programme in it. PM me with what you're looking for and I'll try to dig it out.

Do your summer timetables from 1983 (ish) show what the CP Air schedules were this year? I can see from the Anet photo database they flew in at this time, but no schedule info in the OAG guide on departedflights

The CP Air and Wardair flights into LGW during that period were not fully fledged scheduled services but rather ABC flights so therefore are not shown in the OAG timetables.

longhauler · Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:08 pm

Cunard wrote:
The CP Air and Wardair flights into LGW during that period were not fully fledged scheduled services but rather ABC flights so therefore are not shown in the OAG timetables.

Exactly. There were a lot of Canadian charter companies with many flights into the UK. CP and Wardair as noted ... but also Nationair, Worldways, Ontario Worldair, Quebecair, Transair, Nordair, etc. I do recall British Caledonian and Aer Lingus (flying charters from LGW-YYZ in addition to their scheduled SNN-YUL) also flying from the UK side of things.

It is interesting to note in today's Open Skies, but when a second Canadian carrier was named for scheduled service between Canada and the UK, it was Wardair and not CP Air as they had hoped. CP only gained scheduled rights into the UK when they bought Wardair and CP's move from LGW to LHR was on slots for which Wardair had previously applied.

Good to see another old sod on here, who was around when all this happened.

LGW L1011 Timetable services

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