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YYZatcboy
Posts: 1138
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 2:15 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:52 pm

runway23 wrote:
ro1960 wrote:

Is this the first TATL 7M8 route to France?


Yes first and only right now.

Realistically they could possibly use 7M8s to try to launch YUL - NTE, TLS, LIL, BSL, SXB or YOW/YQB-CDG. Though LIL/BSL could possibly be too close to BRU/ZRH.


On AC, yes. Overall, no. WS operated to CDG with a 7M8 from YHZ all summer.
DH1/3/4 MD11/88 L1011 A319/20/21/30/50/80 717 727 735/6/7/8/9 744 762/3 77E/W E40/75/90 CRJ/700/705 CC150
J/S DH8D 736/7/8 763
 
SpaceshipDC10
Topic Author
Posts: 5980
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Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:16 pm

AsiaTravel wrote:
Any insight on how LYS is performing ?


Must be doing rather well since they keep it at 4x weekly over winter and from what I've found in their online timetable, next July they'll have it back at 5x weekly. All the time with an A333.
 
master14225
Posts: 180
Joined: Fri May 04, 2018 6:38 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:53 pm

I'm talking about Late 2018 new routes, last year in late 2017 I remember AC added way more routes out of YYZ but it's different this year.

flyyul wrote:
master14225 wrote:
I'm just curious as to why not many new routes are added out of YYZ, seems like AC is more focusing on YVR and YUL instead. Is YYZ at capacity or there is no potential new routes AC can do out of there that is profitable anymore?


In the last 24
months

Shannon
Buenos Aires
Omaha
Providence
Nanaimo
Kamloops
Palm springs
Mumbai
Porto
Bucharest
Berlin

Are you sure you know your facts? Air Canada has covered nearly all the major global cities and relevant USA geography. This has nothing to do with congestion but more about the map of what’s left out there that’s not covered (and viable)
 
Flightsimboy
Posts: 1772
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2005 12:49 pm

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:36 pm

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
As well as being repainted in AC's new corpoeate livery. Can't wait to see C-GHLM getting it. (I know, I repeat myself ;))


C-GHLM has been in the Star Alliance livery like forever. Such a beautiful graceful bird!!! She will be quite the upgrade from her usual black and white!!
LAX772LR - "Answer to goofy question:" in response to my question about the B737-MAX8 being grounded. 48 hours later all B737-MAX8 grounded worldwide. Go figure!!
 
HJM
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2017 11:05 pm

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:27 am

S19 YYC-NRT stays as B767. 767's are supposed to be disposed of end of 2019 (Except at RV). YVR-NGO is gone.
 
EChid
Posts: 489
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:00 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:00 am

codyul wrote:
EChid wrote:
Ah, sorry. I assumed you meant as in working while flying for biz purposes, not as an employee of the airline. That's fair, I'm guessing the small size of J might be a big part of what makes it easier?


Actually the small J cabin is the only minor nuisance, in that there are only 2 designated j positions.
What makes it so nice to work is that there are 2 small y cabins. Service flows and lends to us being more customer centric, as we would like to be.


Very cool insight, thanks! I should aim to fly on the 788 more often. I'd be interested to know what crews are thinking about the MAX as well.
2018: DRW-PER-HKG-ICN-MEL-AVV-BNE-OOL-SYD-YYZ-YYZ-YUL-YVR-PDX-SEA-SFO-PEK-KIX-CDG-IST-NRT-HND-BKK-FAT; AC J-TK J-OZ F-DL F-TG J/F-NH J/F-CX J-VA J
 
codyul
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:43 pm

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:47 am

EChid wrote:
Very cool insight, thanks! I should aim to fly on the 788 more often. I'd be interested to know what crews are thinking about the MAX as well.

Sent you a pm
YUL PNC :weightlifter:
 
Dominion301
Posts: 1861
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:10 am

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
Noise wrote:
Very interesting to see Air Canada utilize the 7M8 on transatlantic routes. This has the potential to open up a slew of new markets from eastern Canada to Europe.


True, this leads to ask whether they'd open a YQB-CDG service, even seasonal? TS had 4x weekly service during this summer and keep it at once weekly year-round IIRC.


You'd think summer-seasonal YQB-CDG and YOW-CDG would be eventual no-brainers for either AC or WS on the 7M8 (or AF on their future 321LRs). YQB lacks a network carrier to Europe, while YOW inexplicably as the 3rd largest Francophone city/region in North America has zero service to Paris. As such, YOW-CDG leakage to YUL is enormous...as is YOW-Europe leakage overall. Eventually an airline will figure this out and grab market share from other YUL-Paris carriers.

EChid wrote:
hollywoodcory wrote:
Still hoping for the 787 to return on YYC-NRT.


I think AC is wanting to retire those 763s soon, and with the upgauging at YUL to Asia they've freed up a few 788s...so there's hope.


I'm pretty sure enough 763 mainline frames will still be available to operate the following for the summer 2019 schedule:

YOW-FRA
YOW-LHR
YOW-YYZ (1x)
YYZ-YEG (1x)
YYZ-YYC (1x)
YYC-NRT

The above would equate to 5 mainline 763 frames for summer 2018.

By the winter 2019-20 schedule, there is only supposed to be 1 mainline 763 left in the fleet. I'd hazard a guess it'll operate YYZ-YOW-LHR-YOW-YYZ exclusively and then for summer 2020 all of the above routes will switch over to either the 788 or 333 (or a combination thereof). I'd imagine once the 763s are gone from mainline that AC will still want the above domestic routes to have at least 1 daily widebody on them for cargo...just how 1x daily YHZ-YUL has been upgauged to the 333 with the downgauging of YHZ-LHR to the 7M8.
 
EChid
Posts: 489
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Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:35 am

Seems like a good assessment. I just snuck and quick look at AC's fleet plans again and, as you say, they are due to have 6 frames left by the end of 2018, and only 1 left by the end of 2019.
2018: DRW-PER-HKG-ICN-MEL-AVV-BNE-OOL-SYD-YYZ-YYZ-YUL-YVR-PDX-SEA-SFO-PEK-KIX-CDG-IST-NRT-HND-BKK-FAT; AC J-TK J-OZ F-DL F-TG J/F-NH J/F-CX J-VA J
 
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767333ER
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Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:59 am

longhauler wrote:
FabienA380 wrote:
Heard lately YYC-NRT will purely be dropped.

I can't imagine why, it rarely goes with more than 20 open seats with J almost always fully booked.

It restarts the end of March, 6 times a week, then daily across the summer. I would guess when the 767 is eventually retired from mainline, the 787 or A330 will take over the route.

It gets dropped for the winter as it’s not year round, but otherwise it’s not going anywhere. I can’t remember for sure, but I think I remember it running at some point last winter though.
Been on: 732 733 734 73G 738 752 763 A319 A320 A321 CRJ CR7 CRA/CR9 E145 E175 E190 F28 MD-82 MD-83 C172R C172S P2006T
 
SpaceshipDC10
Topic Author
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Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:05 am

The adjustment to Canada-Austria's service reminds me of what's going on with ZRH since years. In the past, Swissair usd to fly ZRH-YUL-YYZ, along with Air Canada with one flight from each Canadian' cities, IIRC. Then, during the mid-90s AC & SR signed a partnership by which Swissair would serve YUL while AC would fly out of YYZ.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:08 am

I always find quite fascinating the number of routes between Québec and France. How many routes are flown in summer between the two places? There are some really odd city pairs.
 
SpaceshipDC10
Topic Author
Posts: 5980
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Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:12 am

SCQ83 wrote:
I always find quite fascinating the number of routes between Québec and France. How many routes are flown in summer between the two places? There are some really odd city pairs.


CDG/ORY, LYS, BOD, NTE, TLS, MRS, NCE.
 
ghYHZ
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Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:56 am

Dominion301 wrote:
....... I'd imagine once the 763s are gone from mainline that AC will still want the above domestic routes to have at least 1 daily widebody on them for cargo...just how 1x daily YHZ-YUL has been upgauged to the 333 with the downgauging of YHZ-LHR to the 7M8.


That YUL-YHZ-YUL ‘333 is gone (last week) and now we’ve got a ‘763 doing a YYYZ-YHZ-YYZ turn each afternoon. Wonder what the plan will be for next summer? Back to a YUL-YHZ-YUL ‘333?
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:23 am

ghYHZ wrote:
That YUL-YHZ-YUL ‘333 is gone (last week) and now we’ve got a ‘763 doing a YYYZ-YHZ-YYZ turn each afternoon. Wonder what the plan will be for next summer? Back to a YUL-YHZ-YUL ‘333?


So far, it seems they'll only send a mix of narrowbodies from both YUL and YYZ. You can keep an eye on it here: https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/hom ... dules.html
 
EChid
Posts: 489
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Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:03 pm

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
I always find quite fascinating the number of routes between Québec and France. How many routes are flown in summer between the two places? There are some really odd city pairs.


CDG/ORY, LYS, BOD, NTE, TLS, MRS, NCE.


Not to mention that some of those routes have very high frequencies. In the summer, I believe there are up to 8 dailies between YUL and the two Paris airports between TS, AC, SS, LV, and AF. By the looks it, AF has three daily departures on a 77W, 772, and 789 (although AC is down to one 77W) in October, which is certainly beyond the normal tourist season. AF ran the A380 on the route too, but it was too premium heavy. Heck, YUL/LYS has two dailies in the summer, and one year round A333. I agree, it amazes me too. And I say that as a resident of Québec.

Mind you, I can't quite figure out how Casablanca/Montreal could support a daily 744 and A333 either.
2018: DRW-PER-HKG-ICN-MEL-AVV-BNE-OOL-SYD-YYZ-YYZ-YUL-YVR-PDX-SEA-SFO-PEK-KIX-CDG-IST-NRT-HND-BKK-FAT; AC J-TK J-OZ F-DL F-TG J/F-NH J/F-CX J-VA J
 
Dominion301
Posts: 1861
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:04 pm

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
ghYHZ wrote:
That YUL-YHZ-YUL ‘333 is gone (last week) and now we’ve got a ‘763 doing a YYYZ-YHZ-YYZ turn each afternoon. Wonder what the plan will be for next summer? Back to a YUL-YHZ-YUL ‘333?


So far, it seems they'll only send a mix of narrowbodies from both YUL and YYZ. You can keep an eye on it here: https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/hom ... dules.html


This far out to summer 2019 are largely just placeholders and sometimes AC load/finalize aircraft types only a few weeks beforehand. For example, AC only loaded the winter YYZ-YOW 763 a couple of weeks ago. Before that it was loaded as an E90.

I'd guess the 333 or a 787 from YYZ will return to YHZ next summer. The switchover to YYZ makes sense given there's now slack in the 763 fleet and from a pax load perspective a 333 on YHZ-YUL is overkill in winter...heck even in summer!
 
SpaceshipDC10
Topic Author
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Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:53 pm

EChid wrote:
Not to mention that some of those routes have very high frequencies. In the summer, I believe there are up to 8 dailies between YUL and the two Paris airports between TS, AC, SS, LV, and AF.


Level wasn't daily, while SS was. Then you can add the two Air Transat, three Air France and 2 or 3 Air Canada

EChid wrote:
Heck, YUL/LYS has two dailies in the summer, and one year round A333. I agree, it amazes me too. And I say that as a resident of Québec.


Not exactly. AC has five frequencies and TS has, if I remember well. At peak time, it's a mix of A332/A333 for TS, otherwise they also send A310s.

EChid wrote:
Mind you, I can't quite figure out how Casablanca/Montreal could support a daily 744 and A333 either.


Well it's over for the 744 and I believe AC will 6x weekly in 2019.

Dominion301 wrote:
This far out to summer 2019 are largely just placeholders and sometimes AC load/finalize aircraft types only a few weeks beforehand. For example, AC only loaded the winter YYZ-YOW 763 a couple of weeks ago. Before that it was loaded as an E90.

I'd guess the 333 or a 787 from YYZ will return to YHZ next summer. The switchover to YYZ makes sense given there's now slack in the 763 fleet and from a pax load perspective a 333 on YHZ-YUL is overkill in winter...heck even in summer!


That's why I'm cautious and say he should keep an eye on it.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:39 pm

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
I always find quite fascinating the number of routes between Québec and France. How many routes are flown in summer between the two places? There are some really odd city pairs.


CDG/ORY, LYS, BOD, NTE, TLS, MRS, NCE.


Isn't there too Québec City - Paris? That is a really odd route.
 
sixtyseven
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Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:11 pm

As for ACs 767 operations. It should be completely wound up at mainline prior to the end of 2019, I’m hearing end of October.

As for Rouge, get used to it. Well past 2025. Possibly 2028. They’re getting wifi this year, new overhead bins, and a glass cockpit eventually sometime after that.
Stand-by for new ATIS message......
 
dcajet
Posts: 3574
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Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:52 pm

flyyul wrote:
master14225 wrote:
I'm just curious as to why not many new routes are added out of YYZ, seems like AC is more focusing on YVR and YUL instead. Is YYZ at capacity or there is no potential new routes AC can do out of there that is profitable anymore?


In the last 24
months

Shannon
Buenos Aires
Omaha
Providence
Nanaimo
Kamloops
Palm springs
Mumbai
Porto
Bucharest
Berlin

Are you sure you know your facts? Air Canada has covered nearly all the major global cities and relevant USA geography. This has nothing to do with congestion but more about the map of what’s left out there that’s not covered (and viable)


Nit pick, but Buenos Aires/EZE is not a new destination for AC; it's a new nonstop destination. AC (and CP previously) has been serving EZE for 5 decades now.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
c933103
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Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 7:23 pm

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:05 pm

FabienA380 wrote:
hollywoodcory wrote:
SuperTwin wrote:

8 frames so:
YVR-KIX
YVR-LHR (AC896)
YVR-ZRH
YVR-CDG
YVR-BNE (2x frames counting the YUL tag)

That leaves 2x 788s. Any old Mainline 763 routes to be taken over?


As an aside, might YYZ-NAP be in the cards?


Still hoping for the 787 to return on YYC-NRT.


Heard lately YYC-NRT will purely be dropped.

Was it for another Asian city or switch to YEW or?
 
c933103
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Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:06 pm

FabienA380 wrote:
hollywoodcory wrote:
SuperTwin wrote:

8 frames so:
YVR-KIX
YVR-LHR (AC896)
YVR-ZRH
YVR-CDG
YVR-BNE (2x frames counting the YUL tag)

That leaves 2x 788s. Any old Mainline 763 routes to be taken over?


As an aside, might YYZ-NAP be in the cards?


Still hoping for the 787 to return on YYC-NRT.


Heard lately YYC-NRT will purely be dropped.

Was it for another Asian city or switch to YEW or?
 
alexdelzotto1
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:05 pm

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:53 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
ghYHZ wrote:
That YUL-YHZ-YUL ‘333 is gone (last week) and now we’ve got a ‘763 doing a YYYZ-YHZ-YYZ turn each afternoon. Wonder what the plan will be for next summer? Back to a YUL-YHZ-YUL ‘333?


So far, it seems they'll only send a mix of narrowbodies from both YUL and YYZ. You can keep an eye on it here: https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/hom ... dules.html


This far out to summer 2019 are largely just placeholders and sometimes AC load/finalize aircraft types only a few weeks beforehand. For example, AC only loaded the winter YYZ-YOW 763 a couple of weeks ago. Before that it was loaded as an E90.

I'd guess the 333 or a 787 from YYZ will return to YHZ next summer. The switchover to YYZ makes sense given there's now slack in the 763 fleet and from a pax load perspective a 333 on YHZ-YUL is overkill in winter...heck even in summer!



To early to tell what AC will fly on the domestic side as of now. The schedule is usually loaded into the system in late March early April.

YUL-YHZ-YUL on the A333 was perfect, LF was pretty high all summer, lots of connecting traffic. The flight was nicknamed the lobster express due to the amount of lobster cargo heading to Europe and Asia.

Instead of having the A333 sit on the ground for hours AC put it to use. The plane would usually arrive from CMN, LYS or BRU turn to YHZ and turn back to an International departure at night out of YUL.
 
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SuperTwin
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Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:03 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
ghYHZ wrote:
That YUL-YHZ-YUL ‘333 is gone (last week) and now we’ve got a ‘763 doing a YYYZ-YHZ-YYZ turn each afternoon. Wonder what the plan will be for next summer? Back to a YUL-YHZ-YUL ‘333?


So far, it seems they'll only send a mix of narrowbodies from both YUL and YYZ. You can keep an eye on it here: https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/hom ... dules.html


This far out to summer 2019 are largely just placeholders and sometimes AC load/finalize aircraft types only a few weeks beforehand. For example, AC only loaded the winter YYZ-YOW 763 a couple of weeks ago. Before that it was loaded as an E90.

I'd guess the 333 or a 787 from YYZ will return to YHZ next summer. The switchover to YYZ makes sense given there's now slack in the 763 fleet and from a pax load perspective a 333 on YHZ-YUL is overkill in winter...heck even in summer!


The 333 on YHZ-YUL was not assigned there for the sake of passengers or simple vanity. It was put there to ferry a full lower hold of seafood to YUL so it would be able to make widebody connections to international flights.

YHZ would otherwise not be a WB destination, for domestic legs anyway.
SuperTwin
 
Skywatcher
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Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:31 pm

As far as Franco Europe/Mahgreb to YUL service goes I believe that it offers alternatives for residents there to transfer to the rest of North America as opposed to transferring via AF in Paris. In effect, AC is "stealing" passengers from AF's hub. The numbers must be working or BOD wouldn't have been added. If I were flying from BOD to YYZ/ORD/LAX/SFO/BOS/LGA/YVR/PHL/IAD etc. I would look at the option of transferring through YUL as opposed to AF via Paris.
 
ghYHZ
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Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:43 pm

SuperTwin wrote:

The 333 on YHZ-YUL was not assigned there for the sake of passengers or simple vanity. It was put there to ferry a full lower hold of seafood to YUL so it would be able to make widebody connections to international flights.

YHZ would otherwise not be a WB destination, for domestic legs anyway.


YHZ has always had domestic widebodies. Until the MAX8 took over the YHZ-LHR route….the ‘763 originated in YYZ as a stand alone domestic flight. Sure it positioned the aircraft in YHZ for the LHR flight later that evening but it always had high domestic load factors. Same for the ‘333 from YUL. Always full or close to....the several times I was on this summer.

I've been on enough domestic widbodies out of YHZ over the years including L-1011s to both YUL and YYZ. Even Canadi<n '767s to YYZ.
 
ghYHZ
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Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:27 pm

ghYHZ wrote:
YHZ has always had domestic widebodies. Until the MAX8 took over the YHZ-LHR route….the ‘763 originated in YYZ as a stand alone domestic flight. Sure it positioned the aircraft in YHZ for the LHR flight later that evening but it always had high domestic load factors. Same for the ‘333 from YUL. Always full or close to....the several times I was on this summer..


Here's the load on the '333 out of YUL to YHZ last week.....
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:27 pm

ghYHZ wrote:
ghYHZ wrote:
YHZ has always had domestic widebodies. Until the MAX8 took over the YHZ-LHR route….the ‘763 originated in YYZ as a stand alone domestic flight. Sure it positioned the aircraft in YHZ for the LHR flight later that evening but it always had high domestic load factors. Same for the ‘333 from YUL. Always full or close to....the several times I was on this summer..


Here's the load on the '333 out of YUL to YHZ last week.....


So we shouldn't doubt of widebodies' return next summer. If demand is strong both from passenger side and cargo, it makes total sense.
 
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ro1960
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Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:34 pm

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
I always find quite fascinating the number of routes between Québec and France. How many routes are flown in summer between the two places? There are some really odd city pairs.


CDG/ORY, LYS, BOD, NTE, TLS, MRS, NCE.


Interesting that for BOD, LYS, MRS, NTE and TLS, YUL is the only TATL destination.
You may like my airport photos:
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SCQ83
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Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:15 pm

ro1960 wrote:
SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
I always find quite fascinating the number of routes between Québec and France. How many routes are flown in summer between the two places? There are some really odd city pairs.


CDG/ORY, LYS, BOD, NTE, TLS, MRS, NCE.


Interesting that for BOD, LYS, MRS, NTE and TLS, YUL is the only TATL destination.


I thought some of those provincial airports had flights with Martinique or Guadalupe? Also LYS/MRS do not have flights with Réunion? (that is not TATL but long-haul after all).
 
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ro1960
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Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:23 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
ro1960 wrote:
SpaceshipDC10 wrote:

CDG/ORY, LYS, BOD, NTE, TLS, MRS, NCE.


Interesting that for BOD, LYS, MRS, NTE and TLS, YUL is the only TATL destination.


I thought some of those provincial airports had flights with Martinique or Guadalupe? Also LYS/MRS do not have flights with Réunion? (that is not TATL but long-haul after all).


They do but I was only talking about TATL. Interesting that only NCE has a link to the USA (aside from Paris bien sûr).
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SCQ83
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Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:16 pm

ro1960 wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
ro1960 wrote:

Interesting that for BOD, LYS, MRS, NTE and TLS, YUL is the only TATL destination.


I thought some of those provincial airports had flights with Martinique or Guadalupe? Also LYS/MRS do not have flights with Réunion? (that is not TATL but long-haul after all).


They do but I was only talking about TATL. Interesting that only NCE has a link to the USA (aside from Paris bien sûr).


Martinique and Guadalupe are TATL... you have to cross the Atlantic.
 
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ro1960
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Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:05 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
ro1960 wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:

I thought some of those provincial airports had flights with Martinique or Guadalupe? Also LYS/MRS do not have flights with Réunion? (that is not TATL but long-haul after all).


They do but I was only talking about TATL. Interesting that only NCE has a link to the USA (aside from Paris bien sûr).


Martinique and Guadalupe are TATL... you have to cross the Atlantic.


Of course you are totally correct, my bad ! I should have said TNATL :)
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SuperTwin
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Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:53 pm

ghYHZ wrote:
SuperTwin wrote:

The 333 on YHZ-YUL was not assigned there for the sake of passengers or simple vanity. It was put there to ferry a full lower hold of seafood to YUL so it would be able to make widebody connections to international flights.

YHZ would otherwise not be a WB destination, for domestic legs anyway.


YHZ has always had domestic widebodies. Until the MAX8 took over the YHZ-LHR route….the ‘763 originated in YYZ as a stand alone domestic flight. Sure it positioned the aircraft in YHZ for the LHR flight later that evening but it always had high domestic load factors. Same for the ‘333 from YUL. Always full or close to....the several times I was on this summer.

I've been on enough domestic widbodies out of YHZ over the years including L-1011s to both YUL and YYZ. Even Canadi<n '767s to YYZ.


Not trying to take anything away from YHZ. My point is only that the staying power of WBs in YHZ, as of this summer and going forward, will depend largely on the yield AC gets off of all those Lobsters. If it's worth AC's attention, then it will be a key consideration for network planning. If the yield is insufficient, then NBs will rule the roost.

I think the YHZ-YYZ/YUL WB is a very rare case in AC network planning where freight may be a leading consideration when deciding on the gauge to place on these routes. The fact that they are successful in filling the 333 (or 763) routinely is secondary to the aforementioned point.
SuperTwin
 
Chasensfo
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Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:29 am

On this note, I am aware that in the 80s, Air Canada had a longhaul 747 route of of CLE, I think to LGW. With Air Canada struggling lately in many respects, I wonder if we will ever see a similar 5th freedom route again with the 787s or even a 767.
 
EChid
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Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:45 am

Chasensfo wrote:
With Air Canada struggling lately in many respects, I wonder if we will ever see a similar 5th freedom route again with the 787s or even a 767.


Umm, can you provide some evidence to back-up this statement? Because that's not the narrative that any industry professional I've heard/read has been using lately with AC - and neither their load factors nor profit margins agree.
2018: DRW-PER-HKG-ICN-MEL-AVV-BNE-OOL-SYD-YYZ-YYZ-YUL-YVR-PDX-SEA-SFO-PEK-KIX-CDG-IST-NRT-HND-BKK-FAT; AC J-TK J-OZ F-DL F-TG J/F-NH J/F-CX J-VA J
 
idjim319
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Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:02 am

Chasensfo wrote:
On this note, I am aware that in the 80s, Air Canada had a longhaul 747 route of of CLE, I think to LGW. With Air Canada struggling lately in many respects, I wonder if we will ever see a similar 5th freedom route again with the 787s or even a 767.


Say.....what is that again? You must be getting a different newspaper than the rest of us.
 
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SuperTwin
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Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:46 am

idjim319 wrote:
Chasensfo wrote:
On this note, I am aware that in the 80s, Air Canada had a longhaul 747 route of of CLE, I think to LGW. With Air Canada struggling lately in many respects, I wonder if we will ever see a similar 5th freedom route again with the 787s or even a 767.


Say.....what is that again? You must be getting a different newspaper than the rest of us.


Watches the 6pm news in San Francisco once = Air Canada is struggling.
SuperTwin
 
Chasensfo
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Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:34 am

SuperTwin wrote:
idjim319 wrote:
Chasensfo wrote:
On this note, I am aware that in the 80s, Air Canada had a longhaul 747 route of of CLE, I think to LGW. With Air Canada struggling lately in many respects, I wonder if we will ever see a similar 5th freedom route again with the 787s or even a 767.


Say.....what is that again? You must be getting a different newspaper than the rest of us.


Watches the 6pm news in San Francisco once = Air Canada is struggling.

I didn't see watch the news stories about Air Canada's incident, but I did witness one of them right out my window and was in the FAA safety meetings about them, does that count, too?

I base what I said on a lot more than news stories, more like what I hear from friends flying/working there(including one at the Operations Centere), articles about issues within the company, articles regarding their issues with competition over the last few years, research on their ancient fatigue policies, labor issues, their poor safety record over the last 3 years(look it up, a LOT more than the 2 SFO incidents), and many other sources rather than condescending to strangers who's lives I have no idea about on the internet. But regardless of profits and load factors, I'd say Air Canada is having problems...you should see what I see on a daily basis with their SFO operation. Yikes.

If you do not agree, that is fine, but the major US airlines haven't had so many blunders since the Air Canada crash, I mean, "hard landing" in Halifax. Funny that Canadian pilots on the related career forums are certain AC is headed for a fatal accident should nothing change, but here on A.net it's sunshine and rainbows.
Last edited by Chasensfo on Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:04 am, edited 3 times in total.
 
Skywatcher
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Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:42 am

In the deep mists of my shaky memory I seem to remember a L-1011 summer routing YUL-YHZ-FRA in the early nineties? That was a way to bypass the YMX issue before it was finally opened up the next year I believe.
 
sixtyseven
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Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:56 am

Chasensfo wrote:
SuperTwin wrote:
idjim319 wrote:

Say.....what is that again? You must be getting a different newspaper than the rest of us.


Watches the 6pm news in San Francisco once = Air Canada is struggling.

I didn't see watch the news stories about Air Canada's incident, but I did witness one of them right out my window and was in the FAA safety meetings about them, does that count, too?

I base what I said on a lot more than news stories, more like what I hear from friends flying/working there(including one at the Operations Centere), articles about issues within the company, articles regarding their issues with competition over the last few years, research on their ancient fatigue policies, labor issues, their poor safety record over the last 3 years(look it up, a LOT more than the 2 SFO incidents), and many other sources rather than condescending to strangers who's lives I have no idea about on the internet. But regardless of profits and load factors, I'd say Air Canada is having problems...you should see what I see on a daily basis with their SFO operation. Yikes.

If you do not agree, that is fine, but the major US airlines haven't had so many blunders since the Air Canada crash, I mean, "hard landing" in Halifax. Funny that Canadian pilots on the related career forums are certain AC is headed for a fatal accident should nothing change, but here on A.net it's sunshine and rainbows.



Now let’s break this down a bit. Can you expand on the problems concerning competition and perhaps enlighten us all how competition is something that only concerns AC? Boy the US3 must have it made in the shade. No worries of competition. What was that plea to congress not so long ago complaining about the ME3 again?

Articles about issues within the company? Expand please. I’m an employee I’d like to know; apparently you’re quite a source. Pretty vague. Is it cold coffee in the break room or is it this upcoming fatality that I’ll get to in a second.

Ancient fatigue regulations? I didn’t realize AC was also the national regulator.

Labor issues? AC has the best labor climate likely in its history now. Perhaps the labor plight of the hub carrier at SFO is bleeding into your thoughts. Somebody bitching to you on a coffee break doesn’t make me think we’re heading down some road to perdition labor wise.

As to what you see with the SFO operation. Again what is your implication here? What does “Yikes” imply? Sounds terribly serious. Or are you talking about something like OTP? Seat dupes? Expand! I’m all ears. Was it them being parked at a gate and getting run into by another aircraft? Was that the “yikes”?

listening to some off hand, third hand comments and using it on here to back a point is whatever. But when you bring up incidents like the public ones and say there have been A LOT more than the those incidents you should probably mention them or you just sound like some old Betty in a hair salon making gossip. You say you were in on the FAA safety meetings? If you’re sitting on a safety related committee of some import I would think airing a 3rd parties dirty laundry on a forum would likely go against, at the very least, the spirit of the committee. Generally people on these sorts of things are on them to progress the industry, not to use the info as gossip currency.

As for pilots in some discussion board projecting a fatality. Are they anonymous? Because being an AC pilot myself if I had such a concern, and I’d say a fatality would be a massive concern, I doubt the place I’d bring such worries up would be some on line gab board. Id probably send it up an appropriate chain. Some guy tisk-tisking things on a forum about future doom probably isnt worried about his operation. No sir. Someone else is going to plough one in, but not him. Sounds like soapbox BS to me.

Enjoy your day.
Stand-by for new ATIS message......
 
Chasensfo
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Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:49 am

sixtyseven wrote:
Chasensfo wrote:
SuperTwin wrote:

Watches the 6pm news in San Francisco once = Air Canada is struggling.

I didn't see watch the news stories about Air Canada's incident, but I did witness one of them right out my window and was in the FAA safety meetings about them, does that count, too?

I base what I said on a lot more than news stories, more like what I hear from friends flying/working there(including one at the Operations Centere), articles about issues within the company, articles regarding their issues with competition over the last few years, research on their ancient fatigue policies, labor issues, their poor safety record over the last 3 years(look it up, a LOT more than the 2 SFO incidents), and many other sources rather than condescending to strangers who's lives I have no idea about on the internet. But regardless of profits and load factors, I'd say Air Canada is having problems...you should see what I see on a daily basis with their SFO operation. Yikes.

If you do not agree, that is fine, but the major US airlines haven't had so many blunders since the Air Canada crash, I mean, "hard landing" in Halifax. Funny that Canadian pilots on the related career forums are certain AC is headed for a fatal accident should nothing change, but here on A.net it's sunshine and rainbows.



Now let’s break this down a bit. Can you expand on the problems concerning competition and perhaps enlighten us all how competition is something that only concerns AC? Boy the US3 must have it made in the shade. No worries of competition. What was that plea to congress not so long ago complaining about the ME3 again?

Articles about issues within the company? Expand please. I’m an employee I’d like to know; apparently you’re quite a source. Pretty vague. Is it cold coffee in the break room or is it this upcoming fatality that I’ll get to in a second.

Ancient fatigue regulations? I didn’t realize AC was also the national regulator.

Labor issues? AC has the best labor climate likely in its history now. Perhaps the labor plight of the hub carrier at SFO is bleeding into your thoughts. Somebody bitching to you on a coffee break doesn’t make me think we’re heading down some road to perdition labor wise.

As to what you see with the SFO operation. Again what is your implication here? What does “Yikes” imply? Sounds terribly serious. Or are you talking about something like OTP? Seat dupes? Expand! I’m all ears. Was it them being parked at a gate and getting run into by another aircraft? Was that the “yikes”?

listening to some off hand, third hand comments and using it on here to back a point is whatever. But when you bring up incidents like the public ones and say there have been A LOT more than the those incidents you should probably mention them or you just sound like some old Betty in a hair salon making gossip. You say you were in on the FAA safety meetings? If you’re sitting on a safety related committee of some import I would think airing a 3rd parties dirty laundry on a forum would likely go against, at the very least, the spirit of the committee. Generally people on these sorts of things are on them to progress the industry, not to use the info as gossip currency.

As for pilots in some discussion board projecting a fatality. Are they anonymous? Because being an AC pilot myself if I had such a concern, and I’d say a fatality would be a massive concern, I doubt the place I’d bring such worries up would be some on line gab board. Id probably send it up an appropriate chain. Some guy tisk-tisking things on a forum about future doom probably isnt worried about his operation. No sir. Someone else is going to plough one in, but not him. Sounds like soapbox BS to me.

Enjoy your day.

I'm not getting into any of that on the interwebs, I stated what I stated, mostly because it's pretty funny when someone makes a comment to me about getting my aviation knowledge from local news stories. Be nice to people online. I don't care if your opinion differs. I don't care to derail threads on this site, and I don't care to tell you about myself, just assume people online have backgrounds to form their statements and leave it at that. All I care about is the idea of Air Canada ever playing with 5th freedom routes in this changing game where we see 737s in Norwegian colors in places like MKE. They flew 747s out of CLE in the past to Europe, but apparently why some stranger on the internet thinks Air Canada is having issues is more interesting.

And you guys wonder why people that are actually involved in this industry and can share a lot of intel leave. Let's not be like that, no Air Canada SFO stories for you now. But if you're an AC pilot, I'm sure you know all about it anyway. :)
 
KLSMB
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Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:37 am

Glad to see AC further utilizing the 737 max 8 on YUL-BOD. I’m hoping that we may see the max 8 used to increase service on some of the YYZ to UK routes from summer seasonal rouge to daily year-round mainline. Seems like the perfect aircraft for the job on routes like:
YYZ-MAN
YYZ-EDI
YYZ-GLA
YYZ-BHX
 
whywhyzee
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Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:10 pm

By my back of the napkin count, YUL drops 1 daily A333 flight, and there are 4 more coming on line late winter, which means this expansion might not be over. While most will be used for 767 replacement, there is still ~ 1 surplus widebody, so there is a fair chance of another route.
 
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SuperTwin
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Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:56 pm

whywhyzee wrote:
By my back of the napkin count, YUL drops 1 daily A333 flight, and there are 4 more coming on line late winter, which means this expansion might not be over. While most will be used for 767 replacement, there is still ~ 1 surplus widebody, so there is a fair chance of another route.


Betting that YVR-DUB goes 333. That’s 4x weekly so the remainder might just be added frequencies to another destination.

Isn’t YUL-TLV still just 2x weekly? Maybe there?
SuperTwin
 
SpaceshipDC10
Topic Author
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Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:16 pm

SuperTwin wrote:
Betting that YVR-DUB goes 333. That’s 4x weekly so the remainder might just be added frequencies to another destination.


Are the upcoming A333s any different than the current one?

SuperTwin wrote:
Isn’t YUL-TLV still just 2x weekly? Maybe there?


Yes, operated with a 788 from the end of the month.
 
Aircellist
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Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:36 pm

It will be interesting to watch the competition in the coming years, over French province cities, between AC with the 7M8 and TS with the A321LR. WS is not in the game, for whichever reason. I understand that the alliance between TS and French travel agencies means that there is no French charter operator in the running either.
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ro1960
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Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:59 pm

Aircellist wrote:
It will be interesting to watch the competition in the coming years, over French province cities, between AC with the 7M8 and TS with the A321LR. WS is not in the game, for whichever reason.


But wouldn’t that be limited to NTE and LIL? The other cities like TLS, MRS, BSL, SXB are out of these type’s range, no?
Last edited by ro1960 on Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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yow2den
Posts: 6
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Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:01 pm

What about YOW to LHR/FRA? Are those going to upgraded to 788s / A333s or downgraded to the MAXs once the 763 is finally retired?
Last edited by yow2den on Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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