briguychau
Posts: 246
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:47 pm

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:29 pm

I think the YYZ-PVG is a 789 for aircraft rotation with YUL-PVG, which also swapped to 789. The existing 1h25 turn for the YUL leg is probably too tight for a 789 turn (when it was a 788 flight it's the shortest international outstation turnaround for a 788), so by swapping YYZ-PVG to 789, they can do YYZ-PVG-YUL and YUL-PVG-YYZ with around 1h45 turns each.
 
matt
Posts: 727
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:36 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:42 pm

briguychau wrote:
I think the YYZ-PVG is a 789 for aircraft rotation with YUL-PVG, which also swapped to 789. The existing 1h25 turn for the YUL leg is probably too tight for a 789 turn (when it was a 788 flight it's the shortest international outstation turnaround for a 788), so by swapping YYZ-PVG to 789, they can do YYZ-PVG-YUL and YUL-PVG-YYZ with around 1h45 turns each.


That makes sense.

I was actually wondering what the minimum turnaround times were for various AC aircraft in international outstations and domestic hubs.

I notice that, for summer 2019, the 788 used for YVR-KIX has a turnaround time of 1:30 in KIX. What about the 333? Looking at the summer 2019 (July-August) timetable, I notice that the shortest 333 turnaround times are 1:30 (TLV), 1:33 (YVR), 1:40 (DUB) and 1:50 (LYS).
Next flights: YQM-YUL-MIA-YUL-YQM / YQM-YUL-YQM / YQM-YUL-LYS-YUL-YQM / YQM-YUL-FRA-MLA-FRA-YUL-YQM
 
SpaceshipDC10
Topic Author
Posts: 5980
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:45 am

AC is upping frequencies on YUL-TLV during peak summer time:

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... ts-in-s19/
 
whywhyzee
Posts: 965
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:31 am

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
AC is upping frequencies on YUL-TLV during peak summer time:

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... ts-in-s19/


Supposedly, TS is pulling out of TLV, so AC certainly seems to have come out on top.
 
BHXRunway15
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:17 pm

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:42 pm

Does anyone know if there will be anymore new summer 2019 destinations by mainline or Rouge? I realise time is moving on for any new European summer routes but looking at the various announcements there is the odd route here and plenty of aircraft changes but new routes to Europe?
 
EChid
Posts: 489
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:00 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:43 pm

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
AC is upping frequencies on YUL-TLV during peak summer time:

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... ts-in-s19/

Is this going to be with one of the PY-only SQ birds?
2018: DRW-PER-HKG-ICN-MEL-AVV-BNE-OOL-SYD-YYZ-YYZ-YUL-YVR-PDX-SEA-SFO-PEK-KIX-CDG-IST-NRT-HND-BKK-FAT; AC J-TK J-OZ F-DL F-TG J/F-NH J/F-CX J-VA J
 
SpaceshipDC10
Topic Author
Posts: 5980
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:33 pm

whywhyzee wrote:
Supposedly, TS is pulling out of TLV, so AC certainly seems to have come out on top.


Any source for that because last I've read:

Tel Aviv, Prague, Brussels and Amsterdam: passenger favourites
Air Transat flies direct to Tel Aviv from Montreal twice a week and from Toronto once a week with a connecting flight. Brussels, the Belgian capital, is accessible from Montreal with three direct flights weekly, and from Toronto, Vancouver and Calgary with connecting flights.


https://www.transat.com/en-CA/corporate ... ses/124177

EChid wrote:
SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
AC is upping frequencies on YUL-TLV during peak summer time:

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... ts-in-s19/

Is this going to be with one of the PY-only SQ birds?


This past summer they sent A333s or was it 788s, and currently it's a 788.
 
EChid
Posts: 489
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:00 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:21 pm

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
EChid wrote:
SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
AC is upping frequencies on YUL-TLV during peak summer time:

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... ts-in-s19/

Is this going to be with one of the PY-only SQ birds?


This past summer they sent A333s or was it 788s, and currently it's a 788.

Well, the route announcement stipulates that it's a 333. So far they have flatbed J class showing on all three days, which means it's an AC rather than ex-SQ bird.
2018: DRW-PER-HKG-ICN-MEL-AVV-BNE-OOL-SYD-YYZ-YYZ-YUL-YVR-PDX-SEA-SFO-PEK-KIX-CDG-IST-NRT-HND-BKK-FAT; AC J-TK J-OZ F-DL F-TG J/F-NH J/F-CX J-VA J
 
alexdelzotto1
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:05 pm

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:41 pm

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
AC is upping frequencies on YUL-TLV during peak summer time:

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... ts-in-s19/



This is not new, AC was flying YUL-TLV 3 weekly this past summer.
 
Whiteguy
Posts: 1326
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 6:11 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:00 pm

[twoid]j[/twoid]
alexdelzotto1 wrote:
SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
AC is upping frequencies on YUL-TLV during peak summer time:

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... ts-in-s19/



This is not new, AC was flying YUL-TLV 3 weekly this past summer.


It’s not claiming to be new, it’s an increase in frequency
 
alexdelzotto1
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:05 pm

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:23 pm

Whiteguy wrote:
[twoid]j[/twoid]
alexdelzotto1 wrote:
SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
AC is upping frequencies on YUL-TLV during peak summer time:

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... ts-in-s19/



This is not new, AC was flying YUL-TLV 3 weekly this past summer.


It’s not claiming to be new, it’s an increase in frequency



The frequency is not new either, as I wrote in my post, it was 3 weekly this past summer also.
 
SpaceshipDC10
Topic Author
Posts: 5980
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:05 pm

alexdelzotto1 wrote:
This is not new, AC was flying YUL-TLV 3 weekly this past summer.


Yes, but currently they are down to 2x weekly and could have kept it for the summer too.
 
matt
Posts: 727
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:36 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:07 pm

Does anyone konw when the last two remaining 787-9 will be delivered to Air Canada? More specifically, will AC be getting them before the peak summer 2019 season?
Next flights: YQM-YUL-MIA-YUL-YQM / YQM-YUL-YQM / YQM-YUL-LYS-YUL-YQM / YQM-YUL-FRA-MLA-FRA-YUL-YQM
 
EChid
Posts: 489
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:00 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:32 pm

matt wrote:
Does anyone konw when the last two remaining 787-9 will be delivered to Air Canada? More specifically, will AC be getting them before the peak summer 2019 season?

According to their 3rd quarter results, those two 789s will be delivered 'in early 2019' so it sounds like they will be, yes.
2018: DRW-PER-HKG-ICN-MEL-AVV-BNE-OOL-SYD-YYZ-YYZ-YUL-YVR-PDX-SEA-SFO-PEK-KIX-CDG-IST-NRT-HND-BKK-FAT; AC J-TK J-OZ F-DL F-TG J/F-NH J/F-CX J-VA J
 
alexdelzotto1
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:05 pm

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:05 am

Service to ATH from YUL & YYZ increases to 9 weekly flights.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... ce-in-s19/
 
master14225
Posts: 180
Joined: Fri May 04, 2018 6:38 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:10 am

Maybe YVR-SIN could work with one of those 787's that are arriving next year for AC. If SEA-SIN can work, then so can YVR-SIN.
 
SpaceshipDC10
Topic Author
Posts: 5980
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:44 am

master14225 wrote:
Maybe YVR-SIN could work with one of those 787's that are arriving next year for AC. If SEA-SIN can work, then so can YVR-SIN.


It's not just a question of range but also of yields and demand.
 
matt
Posts: 727
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:36 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:05 pm

Air Canada announced not long ago that it would be operating one of the two A330-300s (ex-TP/SQ) it will be acquiring in 2019 on the YUL-ALG route (5x/weekly). However, at the moment, the online schedule is showing both the AC mainline flight (333) as well as an AC Rouge flight (763). Does anyone know if AC is planning on actually keeping Rouge on this route for the summer 2019 season? The Rouge flights were not appearing in the schedule when the mainline 333 was added a few months ago.
Next flights: YQM-YUL-MIA-YUL-YQM / YQM-YUL-YQM / YQM-YUL-LYS-YUL-YQM / YQM-YUL-FRA-MLA-FRA-YUL-YQM
 
whywhyzee
Posts: 965
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:19 pm

master14225 wrote:
Maybe YVR-SIN could work with one of those 787's that are arriving next year for AC. If SEA-SIN can work, then so can YVR-SIN.


The new 789s have already been allocated, one frame is needed for YYZ-VIE-YYZ, and one frame will supplement the others on the various YUL and YVR flights that have been upguaged from 788s.
 
EChid
Posts: 489
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:00 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:04 pm

master14225 wrote:
Maybe YVR-SIN could work with one of those 787's that are arriving next year for AC. If SEA-SIN can work, then so can YVR-SIN.

I can't see this route happening for a while. There isn't a particular technical limitation, there's just more money to be made elsewhere. Also, it eats a lot of aircraft resources - I'm 95% positive that basically two 789s would be required to operate the flight, when they can open new routes with just one plane elsewhere.
2018: DRW-PER-HKG-ICN-MEL-AVV-BNE-OOL-SYD-YYZ-YYZ-YUL-YVR-PDX-SEA-SFO-PEK-KIX-CDG-IST-NRT-HND-BKK-FAT; AC J-TK J-OZ F-DL F-TG J/F-NH J/F-CX J-VA J
 
whywhyzee
Posts: 965
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:53 pm

Regardless of the potential viability of SIN, they simply do not have any aircraft available now or planned and publically known, unless they cancel routes. During the summer season, the widebody fleet is fully utilized, and they still have to replace the 763, which realistically still lacks a replacement (S19 will have more widebodies than S20 unless new orders are placed). Replacing the 763 for YOW-LHR/FRA and YYC-NRT has to be the priority right now.
 
sixtyseven
Posts: 807
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:42 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:07 pm

whywhyzee wrote:
Regardless of the potential viability of SIN, they simply do not have any aircraft available now or planned and publically known, unless they cancel routes. During the summer season, the widebody fleet is fully utilized, and they still have to replace the 763, which realistically still lacks a replacement (S19 will have more widebodies than S20 unless new orders are placed). Replacing the 763 for YOW-LHR/FRA and YYC-NRT has to be the priority right now.


....... standby on that 763 replacement......
Stand-by for new ATIS message......
 
whywhyzee
Posts: 965
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:56 pm

sixtyseven wrote:
whywhyzee wrote:
Regardless of the potential viability of SIN, they simply do not have any aircraft available now or planned and publically known, unless they cancel routes. During the summer season, the widebody fleet is fully utilized, and they still have to replace the 763, which realistically still lacks a replacement (S19 will have more widebodies than S20 unless new orders are placed). Replacing the 763 for YOW-LHR/FRA and YYC-NRT has to be the priority right now.


....... standby on that 763 replacement......


I imagine that means it's been decided and now we have to hope you can tell us what the plan is :D
 
codyul
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:43 pm

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:56 pm

sixtyseven wrote:
....... standby on that 763 replacement......


Hmm what are you hearing? I'm very curious as I suspect their is something in the works that has not gone public yet...
YUL PNC :weightlifter:
 
sixtyseven
Posts: 807
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:42 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:27 pm

whywhyzee wrote:
sixtyseven wrote:
whywhyzee wrote:
Regardless of the potential viability of SIN, they simply do not have any aircraft available now or planned and publically known, unless they cancel routes. During the summer season, the widebody fleet is fully utilized, and they still have to replace the 763, which realistically still lacks a replacement (S19 will have more widebodies than S20 unless new orders are placed). Replacing the 763 for YOW-LHR/FRA and YYC-NRT has to be the priority right now.


....... standby on that 763 replacement......


I imagine that means it's been decided and now we have to hope you can tell us what the plan is :D



Haha. If it’s been decided it was decided waaaay above my pay grade and long ago. I’m hearing some rumblings. Nothing specific but it has me interested and I don’t get too excited about these sorts things.
Stand-by for new ATIS message......
 
whywhyzee
Posts: 965
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:34 pm

sixtyseven wrote:
whywhyzee wrote:
sixtyseven wrote:

....... standby on that 763 replacement......


I imagine that means it's been decided and now we have to hope you can tell us what the plan is :D



Haha. If it’s been decided it was decided waaaay above my pay grade and long ago. I’m hearing some rumblings. Nothing specific but it has me interested and I don’t get too excited about these sorts things.


Don't just lead us on like that haha, what have you heard?
 
B752OS
Posts: 1090
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:05 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:36 pm

AC is cutting back the seasonal YVR-BOS service. Is this a clear indication loads and yields are not good?
 
sixtyseven
Posts: 807
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:42 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:38 pm

whywhyzee wrote:
sixtyseven wrote:
whywhyzee wrote:

I imagine that means it's been decided and now we have to hope you can tell us what the plan is :D



Haha. If it’s been decided it was decided waaaay above my pay grade and long ago. I’m hearing some rumblings. Nothing specific but it has me interested and I don’t get too excited about these sorts things.


Don't just lead us on like that haha, what have you heard?


Hahaha. I know I feel bad as I’ve got nothin. That said the people doing the talking “know”. Sadly they “know” enough not to tell this guy anything at this point in the game. I’ll pass along anything I hear that won’t get my arse fired lol!

Sorry to tease.....
Stand-by for new ATIS message......
 
whywhyzee
Posts: 965
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:53 pm

B752OS wrote:
AC is cutting back the seasonal YVR-BOS service. Is this a clear indication loads and yields are not good?


It's not necessarily a bad thing, resource allocation could be the deciding factor. AC is also adding more mainline on YYZ-BOS this coming year, which will increase capacity, they may be trying to connect more pax through YYZ from YVR.

I know YYZ wants more connections, currently, only 29% of pax are connecting, they want it up to 50%, and are offering incentives to airlines that grow.

Decrease could also be tied to less busses flying around as they progressively retire, and the route might not justify something larger, it seems like a great CS300 fit.

Could also just not be meeting expectations, which is fair too, it's a pretty long flight, it would need a good yield to sustain itself. With BOS being a Skyteam centric airport, reduced feed and plenty of BOS-SEA options which can easily connect to YVR also don't help.
 
EChid
Posts: 489
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:00 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:53 pm

sixtyseven wrote:
whywhyzee wrote:
sixtyseven wrote:


Haha. If it’s been decided it was decided waaaay above my pay grade and long ago. I’m hearing some rumblings. Nothing specific but it has me interested and I don’t get too excited about these sorts things.


Don't just lead us on like that haha, what have you heard?


Hahaha. I know I feel bad as I’ve got nothin. That said the people doing the talking “know”. Sadly they “know” enough not to tell this guy anything at this point in the game. I’ll pass along anything I hear that won’t get my arse fired lol!

Sorry to tease.....

Barring some action from Boeing, I could easily see some A321neo (mix of non-LR and LR) in the fleet to meet this need. I'm sure they could place a few at YUL to continue developing their "YUL as a gateway to Europe" gameplan.
2018: DRW-PER-HKG-ICN-MEL-AVV-BNE-OOL-SYD-YYZ-YYZ-YUL-YVR-PDX-SEA-SFO-PEK-KIX-CDG-IST-NRT-HND-BKK-FAT; AC J-TK J-OZ F-DL F-TG J/F-NH J/F-CX J-VA J
 
codyul
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:43 pm

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:55 pm

sixtyseven wrote:
Sorry to tease.....


Common maangg :lol:
YUL PNC :weightlifter:
 
codyul
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:43 pm

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:59 pm

EChid wrote:
Barring some action from Boeing, I could easily see some A321neo (mix of non-LR and LR) in the fleet to meet this need. I'm sure they could place a few at YUL to continue developing their "YUL as a gateway to Europe" gameplan.

I definitely see this happening. Not quite sure what Boeing could do... Sure the MAX has delivered on certain fronts, but the 321 is one heck of a bird. I dunno if AC will find lightly used ceo's or look to get neo's and LR's.
YUL PNC :weightlifter:
 
briguychau
Posts: 246
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:47 pm

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:00 pm

sixtyseven wrote:
whywhyzee wrote:
sixtyseven wrote:

....... standby on that 763 replacement......


I imagine that means it's been decided and now we have to hope you can tell us what the plan is :D



Haha. If it’s been decided it was decided waaaay above my pay grade and long ago. I’m hearing some rumblings. Nothing specific but it has me interested and I don’t get too excited about these sorts things.


From the looks of it, only 2 of the 4 ex-SQ/TAP 333s will arrive in time for S19. Given that there will be ~4 767 frames operating long-haul routes in S19 (YYZ-YYC-NRT, YOW-FRA, YOW-LHR), they'll need 4 replacements. Assuming that there are no new routes announced for 2020 (which I doubt), the last 2 333s can replace some 788s, which can shuffle down to the 767 routes.

That leaves 2 more 767s to be replaced. The most likely candidates are (1) more used 333s and (2) exercising options for more 787s. I don't see anything else that AC would order right now. The other possible scenarios are (1) bumping more routes back to Rouge (i.e. YVR/YUL-DUB and YUL-ALG which are operated with the first two ex-SQ/TAP 333s), or (2) cancelling YYZ-YYC-NRT (but I don't see this being likely at this point).

The 767 domestic routes can be replaced with the 737 MAX 8 (or shuffling routes between the MAX and the A321s).
 
Dominion301
Posts: 1861
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:14 pm

briguychau wrote:
sixtyseven wrote:
whywhyzee wrote:

I imagine that means it's been decided and now we have to hope you can tell us what the plan is :D



Haha. If it’s been decided it was decided waaaay above my pay grade and long ago. I’m hearing some rumblings. Nothing specific but it has me interested and I don’t get too excited about these sorts things.


From the looks of it, only 2 of the 4 ex-SQ/TAP 333s will arrive in time for S19. Given that there will be ~4 767 frames operating long-haul routes in S19 (YYZ-YYC-NRT, YOW-FRA, YOW-LHR), they'll need 4 replacements. Assuming that there are no new routes announced for 2020 (which I doubt), the last 2 333s can replace some 788s, which can shuffle down to the 767 routes.

That leaves 2 more 767s to be replaced. The most likely candidates are (1) more used 333s and (2) exercising options for more 787s. I don't see anything else that AC would order right now. The other possible scenarios are (1) bumping more routes back to Rouge (i.e. YVR/YUL-DUB and YUL-ALG which are operated with the first two ex-SQ/TAP 333s), or (2) cancelling YYZ-YYC-NRT (but I don't see this being likely at this point).

The 767 domestic routes can be replaced with the 737 MAX 8 (or shuffling routes between the MAX and the A321s).


I'd hazard a guess the 3 remaining long-haul 763 routes will go 788 in 2020.

The 321LR would sure be a great fit at AC for more transatlantic ops that are outside of MAX range. For example, YOW-FRA would likely return to year-round service with 321 winter and 788 summer service.

It's entirely possible that any new transatlantic service in 2020 is on the MAX. 2020 will also mark a shift in focus for the first time since the E90 introduction back to North American markets with the A220.

Also, you've gotta think that a new regional aircraft order will be made at some point both for expansion and as trickle-down as the DH1 fleet gradually times-out.
 
whywhyzee
Posts: 965
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:21 pm

briguychau wrote:
sixtyseven wrote:
whywhyzee wrote:

I imagine that means it's been decided and now we have to hope you can tell us what the plan is :D



Haha. If it’s been decided it was decided waaaay above my pay grade and long ago. I’m hearing some rumblings. Nothing specific but it has me interested and I don’t get too excited about these sorts things.


From the looks of it, only 2 of the 4 ex-SQ/TAP 333s will arrive in time for S19. Given that there will be ~4 767 frames operating long-haul routes in S19 (YYZ-YYC-NRT, YOW-FRA, YOW-LHR), they'll need 4 replacements. Assuming that there are no new routes announced for 2020 (which I doubt), the last 2 333s can replace some 788s, which can shuffle down to the 767 routes.

That leaves 2 more 767s to be replaced. The most likely candidates are (1) more used 333s and (2) exercising options for more 787s. I don't see anything else that AC would order right now. The other possible scenarios are (1) bumping more routes back to Rouge (i.e. YVR/YUL-DUB and YUL-ALG which are operated with the first two ex-SQ/TAP 333s), or (2) cancelling YYZ-YYC-NRT (but I don't see this being likely at this point).

The 767 domestic routes can be replaced with the 737 MAX 8 (or shuffling routes between the MAX and the A321s).


I agree with your points. A couple theories I have been conjuring:

They need a Rouge 767 replacement order soon, the oldest frames turn 30 in 2019, meaning they are effectively at the end of their service lives. The only real options at this time are used A330ceos (doesn’t make much sense to buy new when the market continues to produce low time used models available for cheaper) or 787s.

AC could either exercise their 13 options for 788s or 789s and give them to Rouge, along side the 8 mainline 788s (which would go to rouge once the other 13 arrive to maximize their mainline lives, simply saving having to reconfigure and repaint after only a few years), and then replace the 8 mainline 788s with either more A333s, more 789s or what I think is smart, 787-10s. They could then size their order for new planes for mainline taking into account the 767 replacement and any future growth they wish to pursue. I say that deal is a win-win, mainline gets what mainline needs, and replaces what is becoming an orphan fleet of sub 300 seat widebodies. (Let’s call the A333/789 300 sears simply for the sake of consistency, I know they aren’t exactly) This is what I would do.

AC could also procure used A330s for Rouge, and eventually give them mainline’s 12, replacing those with new 787s. This would again require an order pretty soon to consider the eventual replacement of the A333 and the near term replacement of the 767. You would effectively have to rear emd load the order to make it work, given that the A333s are being reconfigured next year. This is a bit less ideal in that it means the reconfigured A333s will only see maybe 5 years in the new configuration, which I don’t think is the best call, in terms of capital expenditure and ROI. IMO, this is much less likely.
 
sixtyseven
Posts: 807
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:42 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:55 pm

whywhyzee wrote:
briguychau wrote:
sixtyseven wrote:


Haha. If it’s been decided it was decided waaaay above my pay grade and long ago. I’m hearing some rumblings. Nothing specific but it has me interested and I don’t get too excited about these sorts things.


From the looks of it, only 2 of the 4 ex-SQ/TAP 333s will arrive in time for S19. Given that there will be ~4 767 frames operating long-haul routes in S19 (YYZ-YYC-NRT, YOW-FRA, YOW-LHR), they'll need 4 replacements. Assuming that there are no new routes announced for 2020 (which I doubt), the last 2 333s can replace some 788s, which can shuffle down to the 767 routes.

That leaves 2 more 767s to be replaced. The most likely candidates are (1) more used 333s and (2) exercising options for more 787s. I don't see anything else that AC would order right now. The other possible scenarios are (1) bumping more routes back to Rouge (i.e. YVR/YUL-DUB and YUL-ALG which are operated with the first two ex-SQ/TAP 333s), or (2) cancelling YYZ-YYC-NRT (but I don't see this being likely at this point).

The 767 domestic routes can be replaced with the 737 MAX 8 (or shuffling routes between the MAX and the A321s).


I agree with your points. A couple theories I have been conjuring:

They need a Rouge 767 replacement order soon, the oldest frames turn 30 in 2019, meaning they are effectively at the end of their service lives. The only real options at this time are used A330ceos (doesn’t make much sense to buy new when the market continues to produce low time used models available for cheaper) or 787s.

AC could either exercise their 13 options for 788s or 789s and give them to Rouge, along side the 8 mainline 788s (which would go to rouge once the other 13 arrive to maximize their mainline lives, simply saving having to reconfigure and repaint after only a few years), and then replace the 8 mainline 788s with either more A333s, more 789s or what I think is smart, 787-10s. They could then size their order for new planes for mainline taking into account the 767 replacement and any future growth they wish to pursue. I say that deal is a win-win, mainline gets what mainline needs, and replaces what is becoming an orphan fleet of sub 300 seat widebodies. (Let’s call the A333/789 300 sears simply for the sake of consistency, I know they aren’t exactly) This is what I would do.

AC could also procure used A330s for Rouge, and eventually give them mainline’s 12, replacing those with new 787s. This would again require an order pretty soon to consider the eventual replacement of the A333 and the near term replacement of the 767. You would effectively have to rear emd load the order to make it work, given that the A333s are being reconfigured next year. This is a bit less ideal in that it means the reconfigured A333s will only see maybe 5 years in the new configuration, which I don’t think is the best call, in terms of capital expenditure and ROI. IMO, this is much less likely.


The Rouge 767 is going nowhere. If there is an order it would not be to replace these. They are bought and paid for. Free lift basically. They are too disciplined to get rid of these for a big capital expenditure.

Just because they are the oldest doesn’t mean they’re the worst.
Stand-by for new ATIS message......
 
briguychau
Posts: 246
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:47 pm

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:21 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
briguychau wrote:
sixtyseven wrote:


Haha. If it’s been decided it was decided waaaay above my pay grade and long ago. I’m hearing some rumblings. Nothing specific but it has me interested and I don’t get too excited about these sorts things.


From the looks of it, only 2 of the 4 ex-SQ/TAP 333s will arrive in time for S19. Given that there will be ~4 767 frames operating long-haul routes in S19 (YYZ-YYC-NRT, YOW-FRA, YOW-LHR), they'll need 4 replacements. Assuming that there are no new routes announced for 2020 (which I doubt), the last 2 333s can replace some 788s, which can shuffle down to the 767 routes.

That leaves 2 more 767s to be replaced. The most likely candidates are (1) more used 333s and (2) exercising options for more 787s. I don't see anything else that AC would order right now. The other possible scenarios are (1) bumping more routes back to Rouge (i.e. YVR/YUL-DUB and YUL-ALG which are operated with the first two ex-SQ/TAP 333s), or (2) cancelling YYZ-YYC-NRT (but I don't see this being likely at this point).

The 767 domestic routes can be replaced with the 737 MAX 8 (or shuffling routes between the MAX and the A321s).


I'd hazard a guess the 3 remaining long-haul 763 routes will go 788 in 2020.

The 321LR would sure be a great fit at AC for more transatlantic ops that are outside of MAX range. For example, YOW-FRA would likely return to year-round service with 321 winter and 788 summer service.

It's entirely possible that any new transatlantic service in 2020 is on the MAX. 2020 will also mark a shift in focus for the first time since the E90 introduction back to North American markets with the A220.

Also, you've gotta think that a new regional aircraft order will be made at some point both for expansion and as trickle-down as the DH1 fleet gradually times-out.


I agree the 321LR would be a good fit, but I don't think that production slots would be available anytime soon. And given that AC has deferred 11 737 MAX 9s, they may be looking into the 797 as well.

Regarding regional aircraft, it seems like that the DH3/4 have been slowly replacing DH1 routes, the E175/CR9 with DH3/4 routes, and E190 with E175 routes. I would assume that with the A220-300 coming online soon, more CR9/E175 routes would be taken over, trickling down onto the turboprops. There are 77 E190/A319/A320 to be replaced, and 77 A220/737MAX8 coming to replace them, so perhaps an additional order of A220-100s?
 
whywhyzee
Posts: 965
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:32 pm

sixtyseven wrote:
whywhyzee wrote:
briguychau wrote:

From the looks of it, only 2 of the 4 ex-SQ/TAP 333s will arrive in time for S19. Given that there will be ~4 767 frames operating long-haul routes in S19 (YYZ-YYC-NRT, YOW-FRA, YOW-LHR), they'll need 4 replacements. Assuming that there are no new routes announced for 2020 (which I doubt), the last 2 333s can replace some 788s, which can shuffle down to the 767 routes.

That leaves 2 more 767s to be replaced. The most likely candidates are (1) more used 333s and (2) exercising options for more 787s. I don't see anything else that AC would order right now. The other possible scenarios are (1) bumping more routes back to Rouge (i.e. YVR/YUL-DUB and YUL-ALG which are operated with the first two ex-SQ/TAP 333s), or (2) cancelling YYZ-YYC-NRT (but I don't see this being likely at this point).

The 767 domestic routes can be replaced with the 737 MAX 8 (or shuffling routes between the MAX and the A321s).


I agree with your points. A couple theories I have been conjuring:

They need a Rouge 767 replacement order soon, the oldest frames turn 30 in 2019, meaning they are effectively at the end of their service lives. The only real options at this time are used A330ceos (doesn’t make much sense to buy new when the market continues to produce low time used models available for cheaper) or 787s.

AC could either exercise their 13 options for 788s or 789s and give them to Rouge, along side the 8 mainline 788s (which would go to rouge once the other 13 arrive to maximize their mainline lives, simply saving having to reconfigure and repaint after only a few years), and then replace the 8 mainline 788s with either more A333s, more 789s or what I think is smart, 787-10s. They could then size their order for new planes for mainline taking into account the 767 replacement and any future growth they wish to pursue. I say that deal is a win-win, mainline gets what mainline needs, and replaces what is becoming an orphan fleet of sub 300 seat widebodies. (Let’s call the A333/789 300 sears simply for the sake of consistency, I know they aren’t exactly) This is what I would do.

AC could also procure used A330s for Rouge, and eventually give them mainline’s 12, replacing those with new 787s. This would again require an order pretty soon to consider the eventual replacement of the A333 and the near term replacement of the 767. You would effectively have to rear emd load the order to make it work, given that the A333s are being reconfigured next year. This is a bit less ideal in that it means the reconfigured A333s will only see maybe 5 years in the new configuration, which I don’t think is the best call, in terms of capital expenditure and ROI. IMO, this is much less likely.


The Rouge 767 is going nowhere. If there is an order it would not be to replace these. They are bought and paid for. Free lift basically. They are too disciplined to get rid of these for a big capital expenditure.

Just because they are the oldest doesn’t mean they’re the worst.


While I agree that they are a godsend for Rouge, amd AC’s ultimate bottom line, the oldest frames are hitting the end of their usable life, and for better or for worse, will need to be replaced, wether AC wants to or not. Besides a few of the mainline 767s, Rouges oldest 767s are the oldest regularly flying passenger 767s in the world.

I’ll be heartbroken the day they go, I love them, and love riding on the 767, even Rouge 767s (I have 3 767 Flights coming up in the next month, 1 mainline, 2 Rouge). They are just at the limit of what they were built to do.
 
sixtyseven
Posts: 807
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:42 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:08 pm

whywhyzee wrote:
sixtyseven wrote:
whywhyzee wrote:

I agree with your points. A couple theories I have been conjuring:

They need a Rouge 767 replacement order soon, the oldest frames turn 30 in 2019, meaning they are effectively at the end of their service lives. The only real options at this time are used A330ceos (doesn’t make much sense to buy new when the market continues to produce low time used models available for cheaper) or 787s.

AC could either exercise their 13 options for 788s or 789s and give them to Rouge, along side the 8 mainline 788s (which would go to rouge once the other 13 arrive to maximize their mainline lives, simply saving having to reconfigure and repaint after only a few years), and then replace the 8 mainline 788s with either more A333s, more 789s or what I think is smart, 787-10s. They could then size their order for new planes for mainline taking into account the 767 replacement and any future growth they wish to pursue. I say that deal is a win-win, mainline gets what mainline needs, and replaces what is becoming an orphan fleet of sub 300 seat widebodies. (Let’s call the A333/789 300 sears simply for the sake of consistency, I know they aren’t exactly) This is what I would do.

AC could also procure used A330s for Rouge, and eventually give them mainline’s 12, replacing those with new 787s. This would again require an order pretty soon to consider the eventual replacement of the A333 and the near term replacement of the 767. You would effectively have to rear emd load the order to make it work, given that the A333s are being reconfigured next year. This is a bit less ideal in that it means the reconfigured A333s will only see maybe 5 years in the new configuration, which I don’t think is the best call, in terms of capital expenditure and ROI. IMO, this is much less likely.


The Rouge 767 is going nowhere. If there is an order it would not be to replace these. They are bought and paid for. Free lift basically. They are too disciplined to get rid of these for a big capital expenditure.

Just because they are the oldest doesn’t mean they’re the worst.


While I agree that they are a godsend for Rouge, amd AC’s ultimate bottom line, the oldest frames are hitting the end of their usable life, and for better or for worse, will need to be replaced, wether AC wants to or not. Besides a few of the mainline 767s, Rouges oldest 767s are the oldest regularly flying passenger 767s in the world.

I’ll be heartbroken the day they go, I love them, and love riding on the 767, even Rouge 767s (I have 3 767 Flights coming up in the next month, 1 mainline, 2 Rouge). They are just at the limit of what they were built to do.


I totally get what you are saying. But they’ll be around, at least 3/4 of them, another ten years.

If capital grew on trees (not saying you’re one of these types), theyd have 100 77Xs on order.

I like this analogy.

My house (airplane) is old. But I’m mortgage free. Heating costs are a little high. So I’m going to buy a brand new house for 2 million. It has a furnace that’s going to save me 30% on my heating bill.

Big frickin mortgage tho....
Stand-by for new ATIS message......
 
briguychau
Posts: 246
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:47 pm

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:49 pm

whywhyzee wrote:
briguychau wrote:
sixtyseven wrote:


Haha. If it’s been decided it was decided waaaay above my pay grade and long ago. I’m hearing some rumblings. Nothing specific but it has me interested and I don’t get too excited about these sorts things.


From the looks of it, only 2 of the 4 ex-SQ/TAP 333s will arrive in time for S19. Given that there will be ~4 767 frames operating long-haul routes in S19 (YYZ-YYC-NRT, YOW-FRA, YOW-LHR), they'll need 4 replacements. Assuming that there are no new routes announced for 2020 (which I doubt), the last 2 333s can replace some 788s, which can shuffle down to the 767 routes.

That leaves 2 more 767s to be replaced. The most likely candidates are (1) more used 333s and (2) exercising options for more 787s. I don't see anything else that AC would order right now. The other possible scenarios are (1) bumping more routes back to Rouge (i.e. YVR/YUL-DUB and YUL-ALG which are operated with the first two ex-SQ/TAP 333s), or (2) cancelling YYZ-YYC-NRT (but I don't see this being likely at this point).

The 767 domestic routes can be replaced with the 737 MAX 8 (or shuffling routes between the MAX and the A321s).


I agree with your points. A couple theories I have been conjuring:

They need a Rouge 767 replacement order soon, the oldest frames turn 30 in 2019, meaning they are effectively at the end of their service lives. The only real options at this time are used A330ceos (doesn’t make much sense to buy new when the market continues to produce low time used models available for cheaper) or 787s.

AC could either exercise their 13 options for 788s or 789s and give them to Rouge, along side the 8 mainline 788s (which would go to rouge once the other 13 arrive to maximize their mainline lives, simply saving having to reconfigure and repaint after only a few years), and then replace the 8 mainline 788s with either more A333s, more 789s or what I think is smart, 787-10s. They could then size their order for new planes for mainline taking into account the 767 replacement and any future growth they wish to pursue. I say that deal is a win-win, mainline gets what mainline needs, and replaces what is becoming an orphan fleet of sub 300 seat widebodies. (Let’s call the A333/789 300 sears simply for the sake of consistency, I know they aren’t exactly) This is what I would do.

AC could also procure used A330s for Rouge, and eventually give them mainline’s 12, replacing those with new 787s. This would again require an order pretty soon to consider the eventual replacement of the A333 and the near term replacement of the 767. You would effectively have to rear emd load the order to make it work, given that the A333s are being reconfigured next year. This is a bit less ideal in that it means the reconfigured A333s will only see maybe 5 years in the new configuration, which I don’t think is the best call, in terms of capital expenditure and ROI. IMO, this is much less likely.


I don't see the 12 mainline A330s moving to rouge anytime soon. They are refitting them with the new cabin interior starting next year, and if they intended on rouging them they would not spend all the money renovating them. It's highly likely that the option to rouge them was on the table at some point, but they decided for mainline growth instead.

It is likely that some Rouge 767s need to be replaced soon (7 frames are over 25 years old, and another 7 are between 20-25). I think AC is keeping their options open at this point - they have stated that they aren't planning for the same growth we've seen in the past few years to continue. With the current situation, they can retire those older frames if they need to downsize. If they aren't planning on downsizing, then perhaps a new lease for some slightly newer 767s might be announced, or some 787-8s could be ordered.
 
Thomaas
Posts: 649
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:52 pm

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:35 am

AC’s strategy with Rouge is to maintain low capital costs, therefore I doubt you’ll see the A321LR or 787s (even AC hand-me-downs) anytime soon. I could see Rouge starting its transition to an all-Airbus fleet with 5 second-hand A330s replacing the oldest 767s through 2023 and then a progressively faster conversion as the frames age. AC would no doubt have preferred to find cheap 767s to rotate the old frames out but Amazon is driving their price up on the used market.

The fact that many think AC doesn’t need a small widebody aircraft ignores that they have a few routes which benefit from having less seats to fill, namely YVR-BNE, YYC-NRT, YOW-LHR/FRA and YUL-BRU/LYS. The 788 is also a great aircraft to increase frequency on currently daily Asian routes (HKG, PVG, PEK).

The 787 retirements should be covered by the 2-789s and 4-A330s coming online. YUL-ALG will surely go back to Rouge for summer 2020, YUL-DUB back to 738 and if they decide to keep YVR-DUB it would be a likely 788 route. That leaves 1 789 (excluding the one put on YYZ-VIE) and 3 A330s available to replace the 767s. I’d think all the current 767 routes would be a better fit for 788s. It might make more sense for AC to concentrate the 788s out west doing YVR-Asia/Europe and YYC-NRT, with A330s doing TATL and thus the YOW flying.
 
EChid
Posts: 489
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:00 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:13 am

Thomaas wrote:
AC’s strategy with Rouge is to maintain low capital costs, therefore I doubt you’ll see the A321LR or 787s (even AC hand-me-downs) anytime soon. I could see Rouge starting its transition to an all-Airbus fleet with 5 second-hand A330s replacing the oldest 767s through 2023 and then a progressively faster conversion as the frames age. AC would no doubt have preferred to find cheap 767s to rotate the old frames out but Amazon is driving their price up on the used market.

The fact that many think AC doesn’t need a small widebody aircraft ignores that they have a few routes which benefit from having less seats to fill, namely YVR-BNE, YYC-NRT, YOW-LHR/FRA and YUL-BRU/LYS. The 788 is also a great aircraft to increase frequency on currently daily Asian routes (HKG, PVG, PEK).

The 787 retirements should be covered by the 2-789s and 4-A330s coming online. YUL-ALG will surely go back to Rouge for summer 2020, YUL-DUB back to 738 and if they decide to keep YVR-DUB it would be a likely 788 route. That leaves 1 789 (excluding the one put on YYZ-VIE) and 3 A330s available to replace the 767s. I’d think all the current 767 routes would be a better fit for 788s. It might make more sense for AC to concentrate the 788s out west doing YVR-Asia/Europe and YYC-NRT, with A330s doing TATL and thus the YOW flying.

I think there's more flexibility in their 767 routes than thought. Some can go big (A330), some can go small (MAX8 or 9). Everyone swore up and down that the 767 couldn't leave the YHZ>LHR route, but it did. AC adapted, and just sent an A330 to YHZ from YUL for cargo before it turned for Europe. I don't know why it's so key that AC keep the 767 on the YOW>LHR route, but clearly its the one route they're not sure what to do with quite yet, since they're keeping a single 767 in the mainline fleet past 2019 just to cover that route. Perhaps they make good bank on the flatbeds, but it is more likely to be cargo-related.

Still, I wouldn't be surprised if this turns into a MAX8 route (I think it can, given that it's still ~800 short of the MAX's range).
2018: DRW-PER-HKG-ICN-MEL-AVV-BNE-OOL-SYD-YYZ-YYZ-YUL-YVR-PDX-SEA-SFO-PEK-KIX-CDG-IST-NRT-HND-BKK-FAT; AC J-TK J-OZ F-DL F-TG J/F-NH J/F-CX J-VA J
 
briguychau
Posts: 246
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:47 pm

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:26 am

Thomaas wrote:
The fact that many think AC doesn’t need a small widebody aircraft ignores that they have a few routes which benefit from having less seats to fill, namely YVR-BNE, YYC-NRT, YOW-LHR/FRA and YUL-BRU/LYS. The 788 is also a great aircraft to increase frequency on currently daily Asian routes (HKG, PVG, PEK).

The 787 retirements should be covered by the 2-789s and 4-A330s coming online. YUL-ALG will surely go back to Rouge for summer 2020, YUL-DUB back to 738 and if they decide to keep YVR-DUB it would be a likely 788 route. That leaves 1 789 (excluding the one put on YYZ-VIE) and 3 A330s available to replace the 767s. I’d think all the current 767 routes would be a better fit for 788s. It might make more sense for AC to concentrate the 788s out west doing YVR-Asia/Europe and YYC-NRT, with A330s doing TATL and thus the YOW flying.


The "1 extra 789" isn't really available, since there are more increases with the 787 fleet than YYZ-VIE alone. Other routes are getting frequency increases too. As a collective group of 787s (so I don't need to include 788/789 swaps), AC's S18->S19 changes include (as of today):
  • YYZ-VIE daily service (overall +1 frame)
  • YVR-KIX conversion from rouge, 5 weekly + YVR-ZRH 2-weekly increase (overall +1 frame)
  • YVR-DEL increase from 4 weekly to daily (overall +1 frame)
  • YYZ-SFO on AC737/738 converted from 77L to 789, daily (overall +1 frames)
  • YVR-MEL increase from 3 to 4 weekly + YVR-TPE reduction from daily to 6 weekly (overall no change)
  • YYZ-SCL/EZE reconsolidation, overall reduction from daily to 4 weekly + YYZ-DXB conversion from 77L to 789, 3 weekly (overall no change)
  • YYZ-PVG converted from 77W to 789 but YYZ-ICN converted from 789 to 77W, both daily (overall no change)
  • YYZ-FRA on AC876/877 converted from 789 to 77L, daily (overall -1 frame)
  • YYC-FRA converted from 789 to 77L, daily (overall -1 frame)

Overall this is a 2-frame increase, which corresponds to the 2 789s being delivered by May 2019.

I do agree that YUL-ALG, YUL-DUB, and YVR-DUB will likely not be 333s for 2020 (freeing up 2 333s), and 2 more 333s will arrive, which will provide enough capacity to replace the long haul 767 routes.

I do wonder what the future of YVR-DUB will be, as it is unlikely that it will be rouge, but there aren't enough 787s left to operate the route. On another thread, it's been discovered that there's a UFO for a 77L in October of this year... I wonder if it's AC snatching up a frame so that there's more flexibility..... :scratchchin: :spin:

As for HKG/PVG/PEK increases, the scarcity of slots there would mean that it'd be unlikely to happen.

EChid wrote:
I don't know why it's so key that AC keep the 767 on the YOW>LHR route, but clearly its the one route they're not sure what to do with quite yet, since they're keeping a single 767 in the mainline fleet past 2019 just to cover that route.


The latest 3rd quarter results show all 767s leaving in 2019, so they are not keeping a single 767 for that route.
 
Airlinerdude
Posts: 93
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:07 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:12 am

Thomaas wrote:
AC’s strategy with Rouge is to maintain low capital costs, therefore I doubt you’ll see the A321LR or 787s (even AC hand-me-downs) anytime soon. I could see Rouge starting its transition to an all-Airbus fleet with 5 second-hand A330s replacing the oldest 767s through 2023 and then a progressively faster conversion as the frames age. AC would no doubt have preferred to find cheap 767s to rotate the old frames out but Amazon is driving their price up on the used market.


I couldn't agree more. The Rouge business model has been based on the low acquisition cost strategy, with the notable exception of the 6 new 321s they brought into the fleet.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Rouge pickup some used 332s to serve as one for one replacements for some of the 763s. Depending on the sector length, they could replace the remaining 763s with two 319s each, with almost identical capacity. If I'm not mistaken, Rouge only has a wide-body cap at 25 aircraft right now with no narrow-body cap, making this strategy possible.

briguychau wrote:
I do wonder what the future of YVR-DUB will be, as it is unlikely that it will be rouge, but there aren't enough 787s left to operate the route. On another thread, it's been discovered that there's a UFO for a 77L in October of this year... I wonder if it's AC snatching up a frame so that there's more flexibility..... :scratchchin: :spin:


Unlikely that this particular 77L is bound for AC... but perhaps AC could look at picking up some of the those 77Ws coming off lease from CX/EK/SQ over the next year. The ones being retired are all about the same vintage as AC's first batch of 77Ws.
 
AsiaTravel
Posts: 297
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:28 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:44 am

Speaking of LYS, the country manager of AC in France says in a recent interview that they want to move to daily in 2020. https://www.le-tout-lyon.fr/-la-liaison ... 10179.html
 
EChid
Posts: 489
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:00 am

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:32 pm

briguychau wrote:
I do agree that YUL-ALG, YUL-DUB, and YVR-DUB will likely not be 333s for 2020 (freeing up 2 333s), and 2 more 333s will arrive, which will provide enough capacity to replace the long haul 767 routes.

I suspect that the 333s are on the route because AC doesn't want to put them anywhere else, but needs the capacity. I expect that they aren't happy having a product that they can't sell J-class on and that doesn't align with either of their current longhaul fleets, so they are putting it on the only route they're comfortable with for now. Once all four of those are refitted in late 2019, they'll have more flexibility. I'm actually very pleased about this development, being based at YUL. I like the Dreamliners, sure, but the 333s will feel like new birds once the interiors are redone, and the favourable 2-4-2 seating is a treat.

briguychau wrote:
EChid wrote:
I don't know why it's so key that AC keep the 767 on the YOW>LHR route, but clearly its the one route they're not sure what to do with quite yet, since they're keeping a single 767 in the mainline fleet past 2019 just to cover that route.


The latest 3rd quarter results show all 767s leaving in 2019, so they are not keeping a single 767 for that route.

Good catch! I wonder if they're going to solve this problem the YHZ/LHR way, or just stick a larger 333 on the route. I can't imagine they would allocate a (fairly precious) 788 for the route, given the long-haul value they have.
2018: DRW-PER-HKG-ICN-MEL-AVV-BNE-OOL-SYD-YYZ-YYZ-YUL-YVR-PDX-SEA-SFO-PEK-KIX-CDG-IST-NRT-HND-BKK-FAT; AC J-TK J-OZ F-DL F-TG J/F-NH J/F-CX J-VA J
 
codyul
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:43 pm

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:11 pm

EChid wrote:
I'm actually very pleased about this development, being based at YUL. I like the Dreamliners, sure, but the 333s will feel like new birds once the interiors are redone, and the favourable 2-4-2 seating is a treat.

100 percent agree, also based at YUL, i quite love my 330s. But I'm very worried that they've found a way to cram 3-3-3 in Y :(
I hope not, but it's my fear.
YUL PNC :weightlifter:
 
codyul
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:43 pm

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:11 pm

EChid wrote:
I'm actually very pleased about this development, being based at YUL. I like the Dreamliners, sure, but the 333s will feel like new birds once the interiors are redone, and the favourable 2-4-2 seating is a treat.

100 percent agree, also based at YUL, i quite love my 330s. But I'm very worried that they've found a way to cram 3-3-3 in Y :(
I hope not, but it's my fear.
YUL PNC :weightlifter:
 
codyul
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:43 pm

Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:12 pm

EChid wrote:
I'm actually very pleased about this development, being based at YUL. I like the Dreamliners, sure, but the 333s will feel like new birds once the interiors are redone, and the favourable 2-4-2 seating is a treat.

100 percent agree, also based at YUL, i quite love my 330s. But I'm very worried that they've found a way to cram 3-3-3 in Y :(
I hope not, but it's my fear.
YUL PNC :weightlifter:
 
whywhyzee
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Re: Air Canada Summer 2019 long-haul changes

Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:34 pm

codyul wrote:
EChid wrote:
I'm actually very pleased about this development, being based at YUL. I like the Dreamliners, sure, but the 333s will feel like new birds once the interiors are redone, and the favourable 2-4-2 seating is a treat.

100 percent agree, also based at YUL, i quite love my 330s. But I'm very worried that they've found a way to cram 3-3-3 in Y :(
I hope not, but it's my fear.


That will never happen, only serious LCCs or Leisure carriers use 3-3-3 in A330s. Rest assured it will remain 2-4-2.

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