United's IAH-SYD flight progress.

tpaewr · Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:54 am

lydh wrote:
Can you imagine flying in a ratchet, decade-old Continental business class seat for 16 hours? No thanks.

Can you imagine that a short time ago people flew the 744 from the West Coast in the old IPTE J seat. If they survived that I am sure no one will pass away in the diamond seat on the sCO 787

intotheair · Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:35 am

Meh. I'm sure it would be nice if there were still a non-aligned Australian carrier for UA to codeshare with, but I doubt UA is losing any sleep over it. UA has its bases covered with SYD and MEL. Any passengers going beyond that are probably going to choose QF or VA anyway.

I suppose UA could always pursue a closer relationship with NZ to try to funnel more passengers into Australia, but is it a big enough market to chase after? I have my doubts.

LupineChemist · Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:53 am

LAXintl wrote:
I would say with rising fuel cost, uneven loads, and reduced frequency for several months would point to not doing well.

Doesn't rising fuel generally help for Houston? Kind of a special case because the demand there goes up way more than the costs when oil is high.

IndianicWorld · Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:08 am

The length of this IAH-SYD route is certainly something that would create some headaches if fuel costs continue to rise.

The upside, as pointed out above, is that higher oil prices tend to increase demand for flying into IAH, for which there is a fair amount of traffic from Australia in that sector.

I do feel though that UA should have focused on connecting MEL-SFO first, giving both SYD and MEL services to both LAX and SFO. It was best positioned to leverage off its SFO hub, but since that time QF have launched MEL-SFO. It will be harder now trying to launch that route, but not saying they won’t try at some point.

IAH-SYD was the riskier proposition, but it is based off the same strategy as QF’s SYD-DFW, trying to give it a stronger overall foothold on broader connectivity across its network.

Gemuser · Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:47 am

NTLDAZ & QF002
I accept my numbers were a bit old BUT I did not say that 5/6th of the population lived within the SYD metro area, I said within 150 km of the centre of Sydney, that includes Newcastle, Lithgow & Nowra, roughly 100 miles around Sydney. [Excluding the ACT].
The proportions still roughly hold, most of the population is within the 150 km [or 200 km, if you prefer] of Sydney.

Gemuser

MaverickM11 · Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:48 am

Pi7472000 wrote:
lydh wrote:
Can you imagine flying in a ratchet, decade-old Continental business class seat for 16 hours? No thanks.[/quo

The seat really is outdated for the prices they charge! I am surprised they use such an outdated seat for such a long flight. It would be nice if they offered First class as an option like United Airlines did and have all aisle access. The soft product in Business and coach is not nearly as good as Qantas as well.

How are we still pretending there is a link between product and fare charged. Must be why VA and VX are so successful :rotfl:

. The 'CO seat' has the same dimensions as the QF 380 J seat according to seatguru.

hohd · Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:25 pm

Award seats are widely available on this route on most days of the week, even Fridays or Sundays. And award seats are primarily claimed by leisure and VFR crowd. Clearly this route was pitched as a business route.

Antarius · Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:20 pm

LupineChemist wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
I would say with rising fuel cost, uneven loads, and reduced frequency for several months would point to not doing well.

Doesn't rising fuel generally help for Houston? Kind of a special case because the demand there goes up way more than the costs when oil is high.

Depends on the destination, but in some cases, yes. More disposable income, more business etc. During the boom in 2013-2014 QR713/714 was a corporate shuttle almost.

Not sure about SYD. Bhp is selling their US Shale plays to BP - while bhp is Perth based, I knew several people who used to fly via SYD (via DFW if OW or nonstop on UA when launched). So this could hurt some traffic.

MaverickM11 · Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:25 pm

Antarius wrote:
LupineChemist wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
I would say with rising fuel cost, uneven loads, and reduced frequency for several months would point to not doing well.

Doesn't rising fuel generally help for Houston? Kind of a special case because the demand there goes up way more than the costs when oil is high.

Depends on the destination, but in some cases, yes. More disposable income, more business etc. During the boom in 2013-2014 QR713/714 was a corporate shuttle almost.

Not sure about SYD. Bhp is selling their US Shale plays to BP - while bhp is Perth based, I knew several people who used to fly via SYD (via DFW if OW or nonstop on UA when launched). So this could hurt some traffic.

The energy markets are PER, BNE, and MEL primarily, not SYD.

CALAV8R · Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:32 pm

laca773 wrote:
Imo, UA will never be up to the same standards QF offers out of DFW & what NZ offers out of IAH. Even with a connection, NZ still offers a far superior soft product compared to UA in all classes of service.
(This also counts for LAX/SFO). Out of UA, AA & DL, IMO, DL offers the better soft product & crew even though AA is utilizing their B787-9s. It's a shame UA won't get those Polaris cabins installed on their B787-8/9s where they truly need them on these important trans-Pacific ULHs. Catering needs to desperately improve as does the consistency of the overall in-flight service put forth.

United's 787-8/9 aircraft will begin receiving mods in 2019 to the new Polaris and Premium Plus product. Their first 787-10 will be delivered this year with both products installed. Their priority, however, is to quickly convert the former UA 777's & 767's with the 3-class configurations to 2-class/ Polaris. Then start working on the legacy CO birds and 787's.

The 787 seats are physically newer, hence the lack of urgency in getting those seats replaced.

Antarius · Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:36 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
Antarius wrote:
LupineChemist wrote:

Doesn't rising fuel generally help for Houston? Kind of a special case because the demand there goes up way more than the costs when oil is high.

Depends on the destination, but in some cases, yes. More disposable income, more business etc. During the boom in 2013-2014 QR713/714 was a corporate shuttle almost.

Not sure about SYD. Bhp is selling their US Shale plays to BP - while bhp is Perth based, I knew several people who used to fly via SYD (via DFW if OW or nonstop on UA when launched). So this could hurt some traffic.

The energy markets are PER, BNE, and MEL primarily, not SYD.

Yes, but as I indicated, SYD is one connecting point for onward traffic to BNE, PER etc. Some go via the west coast, some hit SYD and go onwards.

SonaSounds · Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:14 pm

From what I can see, loads look to be around ~61% so far.......not the best

AVENSAB727 · Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:18 pm

SonaSounds wrote:
From what I can see, loads look to be around ~61% so far.......not the best

United launched the route this year, maybe it needs time to grow.

AVENSAB727 · Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:11 am

Looks like the flight is improving, Checked the seats available for the flight on random dates during the week this month and the flight is mostly full.

LHUSA · Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:14 am

SonaSounds wrote:
From what I can see, loads look to be around ~61% so far.......not the best

Maybe a few one-off flights, but overall average loads are much much stronger than that.

LAXintl · Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:20 am

AVENSAB727 wrote:
Looks like the flight is improving, Checked the seats available for the flight on random dates during the week this month and the flight is mostly full.

Of course it's improving.
We're approaching peak season on Australia flying as Southern summer and school holidays approach.

Better idea of the routes viability is watching the shoulder and low season performance.

LH658 · Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:24 am

I flew NZ during the summer IAH - AKL. The flight was full. I assume IAH - SYD doing well!

log0008 · Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:46 am

remove

NYKiwi · Wed Nov 07, 2018 4:39 am

What I find interesting about this flight is the flight path. I have seen numerous times the flight almost over flies LA and then heads SW to Sydney whereas the NZ flight to AKL.goes across Mexico more in straight kien. Not sure if UA are trying to minimize Mexican fees and take a longer route.....just curious if anyone knows

ZK-NBT · Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:29 am

LH658 wrote:
I flew NZ during the summer IAH - AKL. The flight was full. I assume IAH - SYD doing well!

How does that work? NZ started IAH 5 weekly and have lots of connections from Australia, UA from the Australian end is in a lot of cases trying to generate new traffic where as NZ while growing the route were also able to take pax off their popular LAX/SFO flights that were connecting to the east coast.

melpax · Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:33 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
The energy markets are PER, BNE, and MEL primarily, not SYD.

Shell, BP & Mobil have their Australian HQ's in MEL, while BHP & RioTinto have their global HQ's in MEL as well, although much of the exploration/operations side of things is in PER & BRI.

I flew NZ29 last year (IAH-AKL), the flight was nearly full, and I did notice that they took 'the long way' via Mexico - felt a bit strange as I flew up from CUN that afternoon!

DFWAviator76 · Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:26 pm

NYKiwi wrote:
Not sure if UA are trying to minimize Mexican fees and take a longer route.....just curious if anyone knows

I believe QF does this regularly on the DFW-SYD route.

twicearound · Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:46 pm

lydh wrote:
Can you imagine flying in a ratchet, decade-old Continental business class seat for 16 hours? No thanks.

Before you imagine it, Can you afford it? Because the people that can are paying quite the premium without melting into hysterics.

4engines4lnghll · Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:26 pm

LAXintl wrote:
superjeff wrote:
There is no reason the flight can't work out of IAH. Qantas is running a very successful A380 daily out of DFW and has for a couple of years. And that is without a JV with its OneWorld Partner American. United has a major hub at IAH and it could serve the same way as DFW does for AA/QF..

You realize the only reason that DFW flight exist is because of AA connectivity to 64 markets. Per QF own testimony only about 15% of passengers between SYD and DFW flight are O&D. Without AA, there would be no flight.

QF has even stated they expect without a ATI/JV AA might no longer be as willing to offer broad codeshares causing QF to drop route entirely.

Its power of having a hub on both ends, something UA cant make use of on the Australia end.

We're fully aware.
I'm sure QF will not leave DFW anytime soon.

4engines4lnghll · Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:28 pm

superjeff wrote:
There is no reason the flight can't work out of IAH. Qantas is running a very successful A380 daily out of DFW and has for a couple of years. And that is without a JV with its OneWorld Partner American. United has a major hub at IAH and it could serve the same way as DFW does for AA/QF.

Also, AKL - IAH - AKL seems to be doing pretty well for NZ, with 77W equipment. Houston is the fifth largest city in the U.S. and a good business center, as well as a good connecting point to many cities on the East Coast. I do agree with several above, though, that UA's Polaris Business class seems a bit underwhelming compared to Qantas via DFW. And I think the QF/AA connection over DFW is the real competition here.

Actually 4th largest I'm pretty sure.

EvanWSFO · Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:49 pm

lydh wrote:
Can you imagine flying in a ratchet, decade-old Continental business class seat for 16 hours? No thanks.

How would that have happened on a 788? CO specifically noted it's first 787 ULH flight was going to be IAH-SYD. I doubt they were planning to put old seats into it.

SonaSounds · Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:02 pm

LHUSA wrote:
SonaSounds wrote:
From what I can see, loads look to be around ~61% so far.......not the best

Maybe a few one-off flights, but overall average loads are much much stronger than that.

Well this is the rolling officially reported load factor data with the six month lag:

JAN - 68.4%
FEB - 59.0%
MAR - 54.4%
APR - 54.1%
MAY - 53.8%

Definitely more than "a few one-off flights"....... We are going into peak season for Australia so hopefully those numbers are improving. But with months like this it is hard to believe this service will last another USA summer season.

AVENSAB727 · Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:59 pm

SonaSounds wrote:
LHUSA wrote:
SonaSounds wrote:
From what I can see, loads look to be around ~61% so far.......not the best

Maybe a few one-off flights, but overall average loads are much much stronger than that.

Well this is the rolling officially reported load factor data with the six month lag:

JAN - 68.4%
FEB - 59.0%
MAR - 54.4%
APR - 54.1%
MAY - 53.8%

Definitely more than "a few one-off flights"....... We are going into peak season for Australia so hopefully those numbers are improving. But with months like this it is hard to believe this service will last another USA summer season.

But those numbers are from the months right after it launched, what about numbers from June- October?

Lufthansa · Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:33 am

IAH-AKL was always going to do better due to better connectivity. In addition the whole of New Zealand that flight connect will to a stack of South Pacific islands, and all of the major Australian cities plus regional cities (some seasonal) such as the Gold Coast and Sunshine coasts, Cairns and even Bali. And from Perth and Darwin the likes of Singapore Airlines, Cathay Pacific, and Emirates are good options for the Americas. United needs a partner on the Australian side to feed this flight. However it may still work. But it's definitely going to be focused on North American originating PAX.

SonaSounds · Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:15 am

AVENSAB727 wrote:
SonaSounds wrote:
LHUSA wrote:

Maybe a few one-off flights, but overall average loads are much much stronger than that.

Well this is the rolling officially reported load factor data with the six month lag:

JAN - 68.4%
FEB - 59.0%
MAR - 54.4%
APR - 54.1%
MAY - 53.8%

Definitely more than "a few one-off flights"....... We are going into peak season for Australia so hopefully those numbers are improving. But with months like this it is hard to believe this service will last another USA summer season.

But those numbers are from the months right after it launched, what about numbers from June- October?

As previously stated those numbers are released with a six month lag. Those numbers will be available in the coming months. My original point was this was a pattern for the launch of the flight, not some one off numbers. Usually flights improve over time and hopefully that is the case here. This winter season will be very telling.

texan · Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:27 am

AVENSAB727 wrote:
SonaSounds wrote:
LHUSA wrote:

Maybe a few one-off flights, but overall average loads are much much stronger than that.

Well this is the rolling officially reported load factor data with the six month lag:

JAN - 68.4%
FEB - 59.0%
MAR - 54.4%
APR - 54.1%
MAY - 53.8%

Definitely more than "a few one-off flights"....... We are going into peak season for Australia so hopefully those numbers are improving. But with months like this it is hard to believe this service will last another USA summer season.

But those numbers are from the months right after it launched, what about numbers from June- October?

And June through October will likely be rubbish. Not a slight against UA, just the realities of the market for that timeframe. I love flying back to visit my family during that time as I can get cheap as chips fares and a full row to myself most of the time...even on Air New Zealand and Qantas.
International airlines make their money down here in the November - March/April timeframe.
Texan

ZK-NBT · Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:32 am

EvanWSFO wrote:
lydh wrote:
Can you imagine flying in a ratchet, decade-old Continental business class seat for 16 hours? No thanks.

How would that have happened on a 788? CO specifically noted it's first 787 ULH flight was going to be IAH-SYD. I doubt they were planning to put old seats into it.

It was actually IAH-AKL.

EvanWSFO · Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:27 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
EvanWSFO wrote:
lydh wrote:
Can you imagine flying in a ratchet, decade-old Continental business class seat for 16 hours? No thanks.

How would that have happened on a 788? CO specifically noted it's first 787 ULH flight was going to be IAH-SYD. I doubt they were planning to put old seats into it.

It was actually IAH-AKL.

Yes, my mistake. I realized it after I could not edit.

zululima · Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:00 pm

LH658 wrote:
I flew NZ during the summer IAH - AKL. The flight was full. I assume IAH - SYD doing well!

Wow, an assumption based off of an anecdote from a totally different flight. You should go into route-planning. Also, "summer" is ambiguous. Pick a hemisphere.

For those who live in Houston and have delusions of grandeur... Houston isn't anywhere near being the 4th largest "city" in the US.

LAXdude1023 · Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:26 pm

zululima wrote:
LH658 wrote:
I flew NZ during the summer IAH - AKL. The flight was full. I assume IAH - SYD doing well!

Wow, an assumption based off of an anecdote from a totally different flight. You should go into route-planning. Also, "summer" is ambiguous. Pick a hemisphere.

For those who live in Houston and have delusions of grandeur... Houston isn't anywhere near being the 4th largest "city" in the US.

Well Houston is the 4th largest city in the US, the 5th largest metro area, and the 8th largest CSA. It’s also one of the most multicultural places in the world.

Don’t know why you mentioned this, but everything I said is true.

That said, UA would need some ridiculous fare premiums on this flight for it to be profitable. I’m skeptical myself.

thomasphoto60 · Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:29 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
zululima wrote:
LH658 wrote:
I flew NZ during the summer IAH - AKL. The flight was full. I assume IAH - SYD doing well!

Wow, an assumption based off of an anecdote from a totally different flight. You should go into route-planning. Also, "summer" is ambiguous. Pick a hemisphere.

For those who live in Houston and have delusions of grandeur... Houston isn't anywhere near being the 4th largest "city" in the US.

Well Houston is the 4th largest city in the US, the 5th largest metro area, and the 8th largest CSA. It’s also one of the most multicultural places in the world.

Don’t know why you mentioned this, but everything I said is true.

That said, UA would need some ridiculous fare premiums on this flight for it to be profitable. I’m skeptical myself.

He’s a Dallas ‘guy’, nuff said.....

LAXdude1023 · Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:32 pm

thomasphoto60 wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
zululima wrote:

Wow, an assumption based off of an anecdote from a totally different flight. You should go into route-planning. Also, "summer" is ambiguous. Pick a hemisphere.

For those who live in Houston and have delusions of grandeur... Houston isn't anywhere near being the 4th largest "city" in the US.

Well Houston is the 4th largest city in the US, the 5th largest metro area, and the 8th largest CSA. It’s also one of the most multicultural places in the world.

Don’t know why you mentioned this, but everything I said is true.

That said, UA would need some ridiculous fare premiums on this flight for it to be profitable. I’m skeptical myself.

He’s a Dallas ‘guy’, nuff said.....

I lived in Dallas for 8 years too and I get sick of the BS from the bickering.

thomasphoto60 · Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:38 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
thomasphoto60 wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:

Well Houston is the 4th largest city in the US, the 5th largest metro area, and the 8th largest CSA. It’s also one of the most multicultural places in the world.

Don’t know why you mentioned this, but everything I said is true.

That said, UA would need some ridiculous fare premiums on this flight for it to be profitable. I’m skeptical myself.

He’s a Dallas ‘guy’, nuff said.....

I lived in Dallas for 8 years too and I get sick of the BS from the bickering.

Agreed, it gets really old.

SonaSounds · Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:46 pm

zululima wrote:
LH658 wrote:
I flew NZ during the summer IAH - AKL. The flight was full. I assume IAH - SYD doing well!

Wow, an assumption based off of an anecdote from a totally different flight. You should go into route-planning. Also, "summer" is ambiguous. Pick a hemisphere.

For those who live in Houston and have delusions of grandeur... Houston isn't anywhere near being the 4th largest "city" in the US.

Given that 88% of Earth's population lives in the Northern hemisphere and aviation standard is to refer to seasons by the seasons of the Northern hemisphere, it is safe to assume we are all talking about the standard aviation definition of "summer". https://www.iata.org/policy/slots/Docum ... vities.pdf

drerx7 · Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:38 pm

zululima wrote:
LH658 wrote:
I flew NZ during the summer IAH - AKL. The flight was full. I assume IAH - SYD doing well!

Wow, an assumption based off of an anecdote from a totally different flight. You should go into route-planning. Also, "summer" is ambiguous. Pick a hemisphere.

For those who live in Houston and have delusions of grandeur... Houston isn't anywhere near being the 4th largest "city" in the US.

Totally uninformed I see - what did you think was the rankings of cities in the U.S.?

LH658 · Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:05 am

Yes it was summer time in North America. To be exact May 15, 2018. Though NZ does well from IAH maybe cause they get a lot of connections from IAH, as well from AKL. UA mainly gets connections from America to SYD, Not Syd to America. I think they should have some codeshare flights with Virgin Australia, might help them on the Australian side.

SCFlyer · Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:22 am

LH658 wrote:
Yes it was summer time in North America. To be exact May 15, 2018. Though NZ does well from IAH maybe cause they get a lot of connections from IAH, as well from AKL. UA mainly gets connections from America to SYD, Not Syd to America. I think they should have some codeshare flights with Virgin Australia, might help them on the Australian side.

Not while Virgin Australia is currently in a approved/immunised Trans-Pacific JV with long-time partner Delta Air Lines (DL).
Not to mention the DL SYD-SEA rumours that pop up every once in a while on the forums. (Hub on both ends for the DL/VA JV).

UA does have third party travel agent interlines with VA and QF (not a codeshare and bookable via third party travel agents/websites).

RyanairGuru · Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:41 am

Not just third party websites, bookable on United.com as well. Also I've had United connections beyond SFO come up on the Qantas website as well. QF and UA move more passengers onto each other than most people would realise.

SCFlyer · Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:32 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
Not just third party websites, bookable on United.com as well. Also I've had United connections beyond SFO come up on the Qantas website as well. QF and UA move more passengers onto each other than most people would realise.

Seems it's only the QF (and even JQ!) interlines that pop up on United.com. Vice-versa for UA (and UA express) connections on qantas.com.au

UA/VA connections seem to appear only via third party travel agents/websites. (plus it seems UA and VA have no formal baggage transfer agreement - recheck is necessary at all connecting ports).

Bobloblaw · Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:21 am

jumbojet wrote:
loads are terrible, also with a business class product that still doesnt quite stack up to the competition. If your connecting to SYD somewhere in the lower 48 and want to fly business class, why would someone choose an inferior product?

Product doesn’t seem to hurt UA on LAX and SFO.

RyanairGuru · Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:22 am

Bobloblaw wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
loads are terrible, also with a business class product that still doesnt quite stack up to the competition. If your connecting to SYD somewhere in the lower 48 and want to fly business class, why would someone choose an inferior product?

Product doesn’t seem to hurt UA on LAX and SFO.

Not to mention the product is pretty similar to what Qantas have on their A380s to DFW.

Newbiepilot · Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:24 am

hohd wrote:
Award seats are widely available on this route on most days of the week, even Fridays or Sundays. And award seats are primarily claimed by leisure and VFR crowd. Clearly this route was pitched as a business route.

High award seat availability is fairly common on routes targeting business travel since business demand fluctuates seasonally and by day of the week. High business class fares subsidize award seats. For example IAD/EWR-GVA has lots of award inventory even though it is a route for business travelers. Any leisure traveler east of Texas could use the IAH-SYD award inventory which is probably preferable over higher OD markets like LAX-SYD.

YoungDon · Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:04 pm

zululima wrote:
LH658 wrote:
I flew NZ during the summer IAH - AKL. The flight was full. I assume IAH - SYD doing well!

Wow, an assumption based off of an anecdote from a totally different flight. You should go into route-planning. Also, "summer" is ambiguous. Pick a hemisphere.

For those who live in Houston and have delusions of grandeur... Houston isn't anywhere near being the 4th largest "city" in the US.

Ha, two paragraphs full of fail. You still mad about the international tails going there first or is this some new beef?

UPlog · Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:43 pm

IAH-SYD gets seasonal trim again. 4x weekly March 29 - October 25.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/united-ia ... d-changes/

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