Link to the article;

https://www-m.cnn.com/2018/09/21/us/sou ... cnn.com%2F

Alleges that a break room area at HOU recently renovated adding some supervisors offices adjacent created a whites only break room and that he was fired for being a person of color.

I wanted to call BS on this article and make an argument of it but there’s a lot of crap at WN that happens and either management looks the other way or just doesn’t care.

I was a model employee for WN at LAX for a few years back before 9/11. I would say it was a reverse situation where people of color were treated much better than the minority Anglo employee. There was a sense of entitlement with this very large group of senior employees and in the management and supervisor roles as well. I filled in at any given time for any shortage or call outs. I volunteered to help out whenever there was a scheduling bind like delayed planes arriving well after midnight and into the early morning hours. I did FOD walks on my assigned gates before every arrival. Many of my co-workers not so much. They liked to watch TV and play dominoes many times even with a plane sitting on the taxiway waiting to be marshaled into the gate they were assigned to work. Management did nothing. I complained quite a bit and was just brushed off. I’d tell the guys in the break room come in let’s go and they’d laugh and tell me to F-off. There were more times than I can count that I honestly turned an entire flight no BS by myself (marshaling, chocking, hooking up the tug and tow bar, offloading and reloading baggage mail and freight, and filling the potable water, and eventually solo pushback with no wing walkers even) especially on days where there was either a football or basketball game on tv. It was pretty frustrating. Frustrating to the point I put transfer papers in for an entire year to transfer to BUR as I lived 10 minutes from there. The only transfer I could get to get out of that awful station at LAX was to go to SAN. I took it and made the 3-4 hour commute each way from the San Fernando Valley to SAN just to get out of the LAX station and the toxicity of it. Well a commute of that length obviously would incur a few tardies and I ended up getting canned with no help from the TWU, but that’s a whole other story.

One cherry on top to my LA story was my car keys being attached to my gear pin and cargo door bin pin. I had been working with a certain LA basketball legends brother who did not get along with me. He found it funny to close up the plane and throw my set of keys (house and car) along with my pins into the forward hold on a plane bound for FLL. I had no way of getting to and from work and locked out of my house until FLL sent my keys back on the first flight. I complained Management laughed said it was just an honest mistake.

So does his story seem far fetched. To some maybe but I think personally and in my opinion he may actually have a case based off of my experience with WN staff.

Ironically enough Ive known a lot of people who have worked at WN and everyone Ive talked either said it was the best place theyve ever worked or the worst place theyve ever worked. Ive heard quite a few horror stories but this seems extreme.

LAXdude1023 wrote:

Ironically enough Ive known a lot of people who have worked at WN and everyone Ive talked either said it was the best place theyve ever worked or the worst place theyve ever worked. Ive heard quite a few horror stories but this seems extreme.

It's amazing the lengths that people will lie in order to get money through a lawsuit. This sounds like a former employee trying to get revenge for being fired by making up a make believe story.

Feel bad for the OP, definitely sounds like he had a rough time at WN. I don’t think anybody would like such a toxic workplace. Glad to hear you left that hellhole dude.

Classic airliners.net users; people already saying that the story is fake... C'mon now people, get a grip....

FA9295 wrote:

Classic airliners.net users; people already saying that the story is fake... C'mon now people, get a grip....

I 100% concur, I am freaking sick of people jumping to the conclusion that someone takes the time to write out something, that they are totally manufacturing a story to pull the wool over our eyes.

Why is it, that's the first thing that jumps into their heads?

Half way though the OPs post I was thinking, you need to transfer to a new base! Too bad you could not get BUR. Nothing makes a job harder then bad coworkers you are forced to rely on.

With regard to the OP's situation, you can find that toxic culture in just about any airline. Every airline has it's share of bad stations and it's share of good ones. Ground handling companies do too. Sadly the OP's story is all too common. US prior to the PI and PS mergers had an entire corporate culture of toxicity like that.

Flaps wrote:

With regard to the OP's situation, you can find that toxic culture in just about any airline. Every airline has it's share of bad stations and it's share of good ones.

True, although the part about "a commute of that length obviously would incur a few tardies and I ended up getting canned with no help from the TWU" is a stretch; the union didn't make him bid for a station many hours from where he lived, nor did they make him late for work enough times to get fired for poor attendance reliability.

FA9295 wrote:

Classic airliners.net users; people already saying that the story is fake... C'mon now people, get a grip....

It's not airliners.net specific. It's classic internet discussion progression in general for a significant portion of the posters to jump to conclusions.

In general, conversation is helped by keeping a critical mindset with respect to claims being made. I don't mean critical as in dismissive, but in terms of staying aware of the source of factual claims, whether they are in a position of opportunity and expertise to know what they claim, and whether they have potential conflicts of interest that may motivate dishonestly or misleading spins.

In this case, it's an allegation pursuant to a lawsuit over a firing. It's possible they're lying, but it is also possible they did face exclusion and even potentially a racially motivated dismissal.

Unfortunately, the article provides almost no details about. It actually spends more page space discussing past controversies than the allegations mentioned in the headline.

zackary747 wrote:

LAXdude1023 wrote:

Ironically enough Ive known a lot of people who have worked at WN and everyone Ive talked either said it was the best place theyve ever worked or the worst place theyve ever worked. Ive heard quite a few horror stories but this seems extreme.

It's amazing the lengths that people will lie in order to get money through a lawsuit. This sounds like a former employee trying to get revenge for being fired by making up a make believe story.

Could be, or perhaps it’s true.

kiowa wrote:

zackary747 wrote:

LAXdude1023 wrote:

Ironically enough Ive known a lot of people who have worked at WN and everyone Ive talked either said it was the best place theyve ever worked or the worst place theyve ever worked. Ive heard quite a few horror stories but this seems extreme.

It's amazing the lengths that people will lie in order to get money through a lawsuit. This sounds like a former employee trying to get revenge for being fired by making up a make believe story.

Could be, or perhaps it’s true.

That is very possible but I would doubt an airline would do that knowingly. Time will tell I suppose.

EA CO AS wrote:

Flaps wrote:

the union didn't make him bid for a station many hours from where he lived

And I bet nobody there listened to his victimisations either (leading to that bid), because you know, well...

stlgph wrote:

I'm not dismissing the lawsuit as a bunch of b.s., after all, the old saying goes "if your mother says she loves you, check it out," but I just can't help but feel given the nature of this website, and others, if such a break room was to exist at Hobby airport, it would have made the rounds on this forum and many, many others by now, many times over.

Agreed. I await someone with more intimate knowledge of the behind-the-scenes areas of Houston-Hobby to provide further information. In the original story the plaintiff alleges that the area that was used as a "whites only" break room was converted to a supervisor's office in a recent remodel, so surely someone who worked at HOU before and after the remodel could tell what that room's official purpose/designation was. Giving the benefit of the doubt, my W.A.G. is that the room might have been a no longer in use "smoker's break room" that was kept locked and to which only certain employees were given a key.

This is the culture we live in these days, everyone is looking to be offended and get a quick paycheck. Sadly Minority groups use this tactic alot to push for more poltical attention to thier group cause or out of bitterness or greed. Nothing was mentioned about this mans work performance, behavior history, or if he has a history of bogus lawsuits, but ive seen many times people sue a company to cover for thier own poor choices. The whites only break room does not even sound halfway believable, if there was a legit race issue then i hope he wins, but on the other hand ive seen people abuse thier victim status for quick gain.

LAXdude1023 wrote:

Ironically enough Ive known a lot of people who have worked at WN and everyone Ive talked either said it was the best place theyve ever worked or the worst place theyve ever worked. Ive heard quite a few horror stories but this seems extreme.

A company where comptence is valued above all would indeed be a horrible place for many people.

RWA380 wrote:

FA9295 wrote:

Classic airliners.net users; people already saying that the story is fake... C'mon now people, get a grip....

I 100% concur, I am freaking sick of people jumping to the conclusion that someone takes the time to write out something, that they are totally manufacturing a story to pull the wool over our eyes.

Why is it, that's the first thing that jumps into their heads?

And offering not a single piece of actual analysis or evidence to back up their ‘conclusions’.

An airport I briefly worked at had several different break rooms; each dominated by a different ethnicity. Wasn’t policy and all were welcome anywhere. But there certainly was a Hispanic breakfoom, a black breakroom, a white breakroom, and then a more mixed breakroom that was more like a cafeteria. Everyone got along, they just preferred to be in company with similar people.

That hub closed so I’m sure it’s consolidated by now.

With due respect. Even in 2018, there are still lots of Racist people, few are open about it, most are closeted about it. Especially the older generations, like my grandparents.
Looking at how they would exercise their hate towards other race. These racists knows how to get away with things by doing things that no normal sane human would do.

It could be a hoax, who knows, but I wouldn't just labeled it as fake since I seen first hand how these racists works in real life.

TheKennady2 wrote:

This is the culture we live in these days, everyone is looking to be offended and get a quick paycheck. Sadly Minority groups use this tactic alot to push for more poltical attention to thier group cause or out of bitterness or greed. Nothing was mentioned about this mans work performance, behavior history, or if he has a history of bogus lawsuits, but ive seen many times people sue a company to cover for thier own poor choices. The whites only break room does not even sound halfway believable, if there was a legit race issue then i hope he wins, but on the other hand ive seen people abuse thier victim status for quick gain.

Yeah, from your rant it's quite evident that you cannot see the other side of the issue.

Long time airline employee here who has worked in various departments in Airport Ops in various stations around North America. The plaintiff's work history is, of course, important to the overall picture. However, that's not the primary issue here. It is alleged that there was/is a de-facto break room that *seemed* to be primarily for a certain group of employees. Of course this could not be official policy (which is the most likely direction that SWA will take), but (and I've seen this time and time again in various work groups) there could have been a local situation that made certain groups of employees feel unwelcome into certain work areas. I've seen this on East Coast stations (BWI, I'm looking right at you), southern stations, northern stations (well hello MDW), and western stations (primarily Pac NW). To set the scene: one walks into a break room and either conversation either ceases or quiets down to hushed whispers, or one gets cold looks from the occupants in the room, or worse, one isn't even acknowledged in the least bit way. Nothing is really "said" that may seem threatening, demeaning, or ostracising, however in the times that something is said it's usually passed off as a "joke" or just "messing around".

That's how perceived racism permeates itself through professional, modern day work places. Let's forget about SWA in HOU for a moment and let's be reminded on the current litigation with DL in SEA with the Korean agents who alleged similar circumstances. Or ask most airport personnel in stations like MIA, FLL, MCO, TPA, PHL, EWR, LAX, etc. who don't speak Spanish.

TL;DR Overt racism in the workplace isn't the issue here; it's perceived covert racism that cannot be regulated by policy but, instead, requires personal mental paradigm shifts from those involved.

neomax wrote:

Feel bad for the OP, definitely sounds like he had a rough time at WN. I don’t think anybody would like such a toxic workplace. Glad to hear you left that hellhole dude.

???

Having worked ramp previously for 12 years, the OP's story is eerily relatable. Most of the airlines for which I worked had similar division, though not necessarily intentional. The part about working solo because of a sporting event on TV is entirely true, from my experience.

As far as the linked story, I'd be interested to know more about the employee from his peers. Maybe he was just a horrible person and felt unwelcome in any breakroom.

CobaltScar wrote:

Half way though the OPs post I was thinking, you need to transfer to a new base! Too bad you could not get BUR. Nothing makes a job harder then bad coworkers you are forced to rely on.

And of course complaining only makes them hate you and increase the hostility.

Judge1310 wrote:

TheKennady2 wrote:

This is the culture we live in these days, everyone is looking to be offended and get a quick paycheck. Sadly Minority groups use this tactic alot to push for more poltical attention to thier group cause or out of bitterness or greed. Nothing was mentioned about this mans work performance, behavior history, or if he has a history of bogus lawsuits, but ive seen many times people sue a company to cover for thier own poor choices. The whites only break room does not even sound halfway believable, if there was a legit race issue then i hope he wins, but on the other hand ive seen people abuse thier victim status for quick gain.

Yeah, from your rant it's quite evident that you cannot see the other side of the issue.

Long time airline employee here who has worked in various departments in Airport Ops in various stations around North America. The plaintiff's work history is, of course, important to the overall picture. However, that's not the primary issue here. It is alleged that there was/is a de-facto break room that *seemed* to be primarily for a certain group of employees. Of course this could not be official policy (which is the most likely direction that SWA will take), but (and I've seen this time and time again in various work groups) there could have been a local situation that made certain groups of employees feel unwelcome into certain work areas. I've seen this on East Coast stations (BWI, I'm looking right at you), southern stations, northern stations (well hello MDW), and western stations (primarily Pac NW). To set the scene: one walks into a break room and either conversation either ceases or quiets down to hushed whispers, or one gets cold looks from the occupants in the room, or worse, one isn't even acknowledged in the least bit way. Nothing is really "said" that may seem threatening, demeaning, or ostracising, however in the times that something is said it's usually passed off as a "joke" or just "messing around".

That's how perceived racism permeates itself through professional, modern day work places. Let's forget about SWA in HOU for a moment and let's be reminded on the current litigation with DL in SEA with the Korean agents who alleged similar circumstances. Or ask most airport personnel in stations like MIA, FLL, MCO, TPA, PHL, EWR, LAX, etc. who don't speak Spanish.

TL;DR Overt racism in the workplace isn't the issue here; it's perceived covert racism that cannot be regulated by policy but, instead, requires personal mental paradigm shifts from those involved.

Yea but covert racism is very subjective, i myself have felt akward around other groups of people i had little in common with. Race is indeed real and different races have different characteristics, so in a mulicultural society it is impossible to avoid some type of misuderstanding between groups, this however does not mean it has anything to do with racism. As far as a break room, its not uncommon for people who look like one another or share the same culture to segregate themselves, ive seen this in the workplace and in the Military. Im sure this man was simply misunderstood, likely played the race card at work to cover for his likely poor job performance, now after being fired he wants to sue which i beleive is silly if he cannot prove he was a victim of obvious racism because covert racism like i said is subjective and anyone can claim it. I myself have witnessed people at in the workplace who were not good at thier jobs and created issues for others due to incompetence, people see this and they get frustrated at the employee for making the job harder, this can easilly be precieved as "Racism" by the person who simply does not want to admit hes not good at his/her job and has poor communication skills.

The only reason I have trouble believing this is because every time I fly WN I’m always amazed at how diverse it feels compared the the US3. It’s like being in a melting pot as compared to the US3 which is more like Sunday at the Masters

Somebody call the "whambalance", somebody's feelings got hurt. What I find really disturbing are the social warriors who want to get in the brains of the supposed "offenders", trying to find the smallest bit of unconscious perceived racism. As long as they follow company policy, it's no business of yours if they're racist or not.

zackary747 wrote:

kiowa wrote:

zackary747 wrote:

It's amazing the lengths that people will lie in order to get money through a lawsuit. This sounds like a former employee trying to get revenge for being fired by making up a make believe story.

Could be, or perhaps it’s true.

That is very possible but I would doubt an airline would do that knowingly. Time will tell I suppose.

I doubt a US airline would condone it but airlines employ people and even Southwest had bad apples.

TheKennady2 wrote:

Judge1310 wrote:

TheKennady2 wrote:

This is the culture we live in these days, everyone is looking to be offended and get a quick paycheck. Sadly Minority groups use this tactic alot to push for more poltical attention to thier group cause or out of bitterness or greed. Nothing was mentioned about this mans work performance, behavior history, or if he has a history of bogus lawsuits, but ive seen many times people sue a company to cover for thier own poor choices. The whites only break room does not even sound halfway believable, if there was a legit race issue then i hope he wins, but on the other hand ive seen people abuse thier victim status for quick gain.

Yeah, from your rant it's quite evident that you cannot see the other side of the issue.

Long time airline employee here who has worked in various departments in Airport Ops in various stations around North America. The plaintiff's work history is, of course, important to the overall picture. However, that's not the primary issue here. It is alleged that there was/is a de-facto break room that *seemed* to be primarily for a certain group of employees. Of course this could not be official policy (which is the most likely direction that SWA will take), but (and I've seen this time and time again in various work groups) there could have been a local situation that made certain groups of employees feel unwelcome into certain work areas. I've seen this on East Coast stations (BWI, I'm looking right at you), southern stations, northern stations (well hello MDW), and western stations (primarily Pac NW). To set the scene: one walks into a break room and either conversation either ceases or quiets down to hushed whispers, or one gets cold looks from the occupants in the room, or worse, one isn't even acknowledged in the least bit way. Nothing is really "said" that may seem threatening, demeaning, or ostracising, however in the times that something is said it's usually passed off as a "joke" or just "messing around".

That's how perceived racism permeates itself through professional, modern day work places. Let's forget about SWA in HOU for a moment and let's be reminded on the current litigation with DL in SEA with the Korean agents who alleged similar circumstances. Or ask most airport personnel in stations like MIA, FLL, MCO, TPA, PHL, EWR, LAX, etc. who don't speak Spanish.

TL;DR Overt racism in the workplace isn't the issue here; it's perceived covert racism that cannot be regulated by policy but, instead, requires personal mental paradigm shifts from those involved.

Yea but covert racism is very subjective, i myself have felt akward around other groups of people i had little in common with. Race is indeed real and different races have different characteristics, so in a mulicultural society it is impossible to avoid some type of misuderstanding between groups, this however does not mean it has anything to do with racism. As far as a break room, its not uncommon for people who look like one another or share the same culture to segregate themselves, ive seen this in the workplace and in the Military. Im sure this man was simply misunderstood, likely played the race card at work to cover for his likely poor job performance, now after being fired he wants to sue which i beleive is silly if he cannot prove he was a victim of obvious racism because covert racism like i said is subjective and anyone can claim it. I myself have witnessed people at in the workplace who were not good at thier jobs and created issues for others due to incompetence, people see this and they get frustrated at the employee for making the job harder, this can easilly be precieved as "Racism" by the person who simply does not want to admit hes not good at his/her job and has poor communication skills.

"... Race is indeed real and different races have different characteristics,..."

This is where our arguments fundamentally differ. Different races don't have different characteristics if we're talking solely about social interaction. It's different cultures, different upbringings that dictate how we act socially. Race does NOT equal Culture so the rest of your sentence where you say that,
"...so in a mulicultural society it is impossible to avoid some type of misuderstanding between groups,..." is fundamentally incongruent with your first phrase of the sentence.

The legal issue here is not this man's work history -- it's the environment in which was perceived as not welcoming to the entire workforce that is being adjudicated here.

jetblueguy22 wrote:

The only reason I have trouble believing this is because every time I fly WN I’m always amazed at how diverse it feels compared the the US3. It’s like being in a melting pot as compared to the US3 which is more like Sunday at the Masters

Haha, trust me, the issue extends into flight crews as well. What you see whilst flying is not what actually happens in crew rooms, layovers, internal discussion fora, rpivate social media, etc...

Judge1310 wrote:

TheKennady2 wrote:

Judge1310 wrote:

Yeah, from your rant it's quite evident that you cannot see the other side of the issue.

Long time airline employee here who has worked in various departments in Airport Ops in various stations around North America. The plaintiff's work history is, of course, important to the overall picture. However, that's not the primary issue here. It is alleged that there was/is a de-facto break room that *seemed* to be primarily for a certain group of employees. Of course this could not be official policy (which is the most likely direction that SWA will take), but (and I've seen this time and time again in various work groups) there could have been a local situation that made certain groups of employees feel unwelcome into certain work areas. I've seen this on East Coast stations (BWI, I'm looking right at you), southern stations, northern stations (well hello MDW), and western stations (primarily Pac NW). To set the scene: one walks into a break room and either conversation either ceases or quiets down to hushed whispers, or one gets cold looks from the occupants in the room, or worse, one isn't even acknowledged in the least bit way. Nothing is really "said" that may seem threatening, demeaning, or ostracising, however in the times that something is said it's usually passed off as a "joke" or just "messing around".

That's how perceived racism permeates itself through professional, modern day work places. Let's forget about SWA in HOU for a moment and let's be reminded on the current litigation with DL in SEA with the Korean agents who alleged similar circumstances. Or ask most airport personnel in stations like MIA, FLL, MCO, TPA, PHL, EWR, LAX, etc. who don't speak Spanish.

TL;DR Overt racism in the workplace isn't the issue here; it's perceived covert racism that cannot be regulated by policy but, instead, requires personal mental paradigm shifts from those involved.

Yea but covert racism is very subjective, i myself have felt akward around other groups of people i had little in common with. Race is indeed real and different races have different characteristics, so in a mulicultural society it is impossible to avoid some type of misuderstanding between groups, this however does not mean it has anything to do with racism. As far as a break room, its not uncommon for people who look like one another or share the same culture to segregate themselves, ive seen this in the workplace and in the Military. Im sure this man was simply misunderstood, likely played the race card at work to cover for his likely poor job performance, now after being fired he wants to sue which i beleive is silly if he cannot prove he was a victim of obvious racism because covert racism like i said is subjective and anyone can claim it. I myself have witnessed people at in the workplace who were not good at thier jobs and created issues for others due to incompetence, people see this and they get frustrated at the employee for making the job harder, this can easilly be precieved as "Racism" by the person who simply does not want to admit hes not good at his/her job and has poor communication skills.

"... Race is indeed real and different races have different characteristics,..."

This is where our arguments fundamentally differ. Different races don't have different characteristics if we're talking solely about social interaction. It's different cultures, different upbringings that dictate how we act socially. Race does NOT equal Culture so the rest of your sentence where you say that,
"...so in a mulicultural society it is impossible to avoid some type of misuderstanding between groups,..." is fundamentally incongruent with your first phrase of the sentence.

The legal issue here is not this man's work history -- it's the environment in which was perceived as not welcoming to the entire workforce that is being adjudicated here.

I think you have a PC version of race, who told you race or genes dont create culture? What else would? Show me a example in a multi-cultural society where everyone acts and interacts the same as a group. In a perfect world this would happen but there are clear differences in culture and mentality between most groups with few exceptions. Humans are not drones who just magically fit anywhere you put them, and this is one of the challenges of Multi-culturalism. You said race does not equal culture but amost all races have different cultures, history, genetic differences, and more. You would make a good spokesperson, ignoring obvious facts to fit the PC and "lets all get along" model. And like i said, this man may have felt unwelcome but that may be more of a personal issue rather than a legal or work one. He could have very well created his own hostility through his attitude. Like they say, if you look hard enough to find the Negative you always will.

Xxx, xxxx, xx, xxxx.

This individual sounds sick in the head and needs to be committed. Hope WN counter-sues him.

smaragdz wrote:

RWA380 wrote:

FA9295 wrote:

Classic airliners.net users; people already saying that the story is fake... C'mon now people, get a grip....

I 100% concur, I am freaking sick of people jumping to the conclusion that someone takes the time to write out something, that they are totally manufacturing a story to pull the wool over our eyes.

Why is it, that's the first thing that jumps into their heads?

And offering not a single piece of actual analysis or evidence to back up their ‘conclusions’.

Welcome to life!

nine4nine wrote:

Link to the article;

https://www-m.cnn.com/2018/09/21/us/sou ... cnn.com%2F

Alleges that a break room area at HOU recently renovated adding some supervisors offices adjacent created a whites only break room and that he was fired for being a person of color.

I wanted to call BS on this article and make an argument of it but there’s a lot of crap at WN that happens and either management looks the other way or just doesn’t care.

I was a model employee for WN at LAX for a few years back before 9/11. I would say it was a reverse situation where people of color were treated much better than the minority Anglo employee. There was a sense of entitlement with this very large group of senior employees and in the management and supervisor roles as well. I filled in at any given time for any shortage or call outs. I volunteered to help out whenever there was a scheduling bind like delayed planes arriving well after midnight and into the early morning hours. I did FOD walks on my assigned gates before every arrival. Many of my co-workers not so much. They liked to watch TV and play dominoes many times even with a plane sitting on the taxiway waiting to be marshaled into the gate they were assigned to work. Management did nothing. I complained quite a bit and was just brushed off. I’d tell the guys in the break room come in let’s go and they’d laugh and tell me to F-off. There were more times than I can count that I honestly turned an entire flight no BS by myself (marshaling, chocking, hooking up the tug and tow bar, offloading and reloading baggage mail and freight, and filling the potable water, and eventually solo pushback with no wing walkers even) especially on days where there was either a football or basketball game on tv. It was pretty frustrating. Frustrating to the point I put transfer papers in for an entire year to transfer to BUR as I lived 10 minutes from there. The only transfer I could get to get out of that awful station at LAX was to go to SAN. I took it and made the 3-4 hour commute each way from the San Fernando Valley to SAN just to get out of the LAX station and the toxicity of it. Well a commute of that length obviously would incur a few tardies and I ended up getting canned with no help from the TWU, but that’s a whole other story.

One cherry on top to my LA story was my car keys being attached to my gear pin and cargo door bin pin. I had been working with a certain LA basketball legends brother who did not get along with me. He found it funny to close up the plane and throw my set of keys (house and car) along with my pins into the forward hold on a plane bound for FLL. I had no way of getting to and from work and locked out of my house until FLL sent my keys back on the first flight. I complained Management laughed said it was just an honest mistake.

So does his story seem far fetched. To some maybe but I think personally and in my opinion he may actually have a case based off of my experience with WN staff.

*post deleted*

As the OP on this article I appreciate those of you who actually get it and have gone thru some of the crap with garbage employees and management who are too afraid to offend certain groups of individuals, WN at LAX especially.

I was flamed by a few posters about being fired for being late after transferring to SAN to escape the trash in LA during my 3-4 hour commute. Yes policy is policy and late is late no matter what but the TWU and WN fed me a bullshit fairy tail that I was an highly exemplary employee with multiple company awards and would be highly recommended for re-hire. After multiple interviews and second interviews I never got the promised call back. I guess I ruffled a lot of feathers in LA by calling a spade a spade. Racism works all ways and doesn’t distinguish color.

Funny thing is a lot of those employees and supervisors causing a lot of the issues were fired by WN post 9/11 after security and screening protocols changed and more extensive background checks showed a lot of them to be convicted felons or wanted on warrants.

I find it just sick how literally everyone on here is jumping to the airline's defense. Probably just butt-hurt Southwest employees trying to defend their own company image.

Just give the guy a chance before jumping to the conclusion that this is just "former employee revenge", for Christ sake... Yes, there is the chance that the employee could be exaggerating things a ton, or straight up lying, but is there really a point in just bashing the article as fake with no actual proof that it is indeed fake...?

nine4nine wrote:

As the OP on this article I appreciate those of you who actually get it and have gone thru some of the crap with garbage employees and management who are too afraid to offend certain groups of individuals, WN at LAX especially.

I was flamed by a few posters about being fired for being late after transferring to SAN to escape the trash in LA during my 3-4 hour commute. Yes policy is policy and late is late no matter what but the TWU and WN fed me a bullshit fairy tail that I was an highly exemplary employee with multiple company awards and would be highly recommended for re-hire. After multiple interviews and second interviews I never got the promised call back. I guess I ruffled a lot of feathers in LA by calling a spade a spade. Racism works all ways and doesn’t distinguish color.

Funny thing is a lot of those employees and supervisors causing a lot of the issues were fired by WN post 9/11 after security and screening protocols changed and more extensive background checks showed a lot of them to be convicted felons or wanted on warrants.

I'm guessing you never considered the possibility that your coworkers just didn't like you because of your attitude, or because of something that you did. For example, you stated that you complained about your coworkers, ostensibly to management. Nobody likes a snitch, and it wouldn't take long to develop a reputation.

millionsofmiles wrote:

nine4nine wrote:

As the OP on this article I appreciate those of you who actually get it and have gone thru some of the crap with garbage employees and management who are too afraid to offend certain groups of individuals, WN at LAX especially.

I was flamed by a few posters about being fired for being late after transferring to SAN to escape the trash in LA during my 3-4 hour commute. Yes policy is policy and late is late no matter what but the TWU and WN fed me a bullshit fairy tail that I was an highly exemplary employee with multiple company awards and would be highly recommended for re-hire. After multiple interviews and second interviews I never got the promised call back. I guess I ruffled a lot of feathers in LA by calling a spade a spade. Racism works all ways and doesn’t distinguish color.

Funny thing is a lot of those employees and supervisors causing a lot of the issues were fired by WN post 9/11 after security and screening protocols changed and more extensive background checks showed a lot of them to be convicted felons or wanted on warrants.

I'm guessing you never considered the possibility that your coworkers just didn't like you because of your attitude, or because of something that you did. For example, you stated that you complained about your coworkers, ostensibly to management. Nobody likes a snitch, and it wouldn't take long to develop a reputation.

Agree completely ... someone who would post this racial nonsense on an aviation forum is not the sort of person most professional people would like to work with. I’m surprised it hasn’t been removed ... it’s just a racist rant .

millionsofmiles wrote:

nine4nine wrote:

As the OP on this article I appreciate those of you who actually get it and have gone thru some of the crap with garbage employees and management who are too afraid to offend certain groups of individuals, WN at LAX especially.

I was flamed by a few posters about being fired for being late after transferring to SAN to escape the trash in LA during my 3-4 hour commute. Yes policy is policy and late is late no matter what but the TWU and WN fed me a bullshit fairy tail that I was an highly exemplary employee with multiple company awards and would be highly recommended for re-hire. After multiple interviews and second interviews I never got the promised call back. I guess I ruffled a lot of feathers in LA by calling a spade a spade. Racism works all ways and doesn’t distinguish color.

Funny thing is a lot of those employees and supervisors causing a lot of the issues were fired by WN post 9/11 after security and screening protocols changed and more extensive background checks showed a lot of them to be convicted felons or wanted on warrants.

I'm guessing you never considered the possibility that your coworkers just didn't like you because of your attitude, or because of something that you did. For example, you stated that you complained about your coworkers, ostensibly to management. Nobody likes a snitch, and it wouldn't take long to develop a reputation.

Or maybe..... my coworkers (just a portion of them) didn’t like me because I actually showed up to do what I got paid by WN to do and that is work. I’m not there to play dominoes, watch TV, or enjoy the social circles. So yes I did complain because it wasn’t fair to the rest of us hard workers to pick up the slack for a few lazy people hiding behind the union. So you can sit there on your keyboard and say all the ridiculous garbage you want but it was my experience to live not yours.

Galwayman wrote:

millionsofmiles wrote:

nine4nine wrote:

As the OP on this article I appreciate those of you who actually get it and have gone thru some of the crap with garbage employees and management who are too afraid to offend certain groups of individuals, WN at LAX especially.

I was flamed by a few posters about being fired for being late after transferring to SAN to escape the trash in LA during my 3-4 hour commute. Yes policy is policy and late is late no matter what but the TWU and WN fed me a bullshit fairy tail that I was an highly exemplary employee with multiple company awards and would be highly recommended for re-hire. After multiple interviews and second interviews I never got the promised call back. I guess I ruffled a lot of feathers in LA by calling a spade a spade. Racism works all ways and doesn’t distinguish color.

Funny thing is a lot of those employees and supervisors causing a lot of the issues were fired by WN post 9/11 after security and screening protocols changed and more extensive background checks showed a lot of them to be convicted felons or wanted on warrants.

I'm guessing you never considered the possibility that your coworkers just didn't like you because of your attitude, or because of something that you did. For example, you stated that you complained about your coworkers, ostensibly to management. Nobody likes a snitch, and it wouldn't take long to develop a reputation.

Agree completely ... someone who would post this racial nonsense on an aviation forum is not the sort of person most professional people would like to work with. I’m surprised it hasn’t been removed ... it’s just a racist rant .

Oh please. Turn the sensitivity meter down a little pal. This was not a racist rant. It was saying racism works in all ways and affects all people. It’s not one sided or perpetrated by solely one race or color. The article is based on a supposed racist environment at a WN station by a former employee, and my experiences I’m sharing of it was at another station.

HWC1977 wrote:

Somebody call the "whambalance", somebody's feelings got hurt. What I find really disturbing are the social warriors who want to get in the brains of the supposed "offenders", trying to find the smallest bit of unconscious perceived racism. As long as they follow company policy, it's no business of yours if they're racist or not.

“Whitest” thing Ive heard on here in a long time.
Bravo!

Where are our dutiful thought police? I'm surprised this thread hasn't been whittled down to "planes are good" and "I like southwest"...

I'm just wondering how many of the people who've commented on this post actually work or have worked for an airline, in the USA, and in Airport Ops.

nine4nine wrote:

millionsofmiles wrote:

nine4nine wrote:

As the OP on this article I appreciate those of you who actually get it and have gone thru some of the crap with garbage employees and management who are too afraid to offend certain groups of individuals, WN at LAX especially.

I was flamed by a few posters about being fired for being late after transferring to SAN to escape the trash in LA during my 3-4 hour commute. Yes policy is policy and late is late no matter what but the TWU and WN fed me a bullshit fairy tail that I was an highly exemplary employee with multiple company awards and would be highly recommended for re-hire. After multiple interviews and second interviews I never got the promised call back. I guess I ruffled a lot of feathers in LA by calling a spade a spade. Racism works all ways and doesn’t distinguish color.

Funny thing is a lot of those employees and supervisors causing a lot of the issues were fired by WN post 9/11 after security and screening protocols changed and more extensive background checks showed a lot of them to be convicted felons or wanted on warrants.

I'm guessing you never considered the possibility that your coworkers just didn't like you because of your attitude, or because of something that you did. For example, you stated that you complained about your coworkers, ostensibly to management. Nobody likes a snitch, and it wouldn't take long to develop a reputation.

Or maybe..... my coworkers (just a portion of them) didn’t like me because I actually showed up to do what I got paid by WN to do and that is work. I’m not there to play dominoes, watch TV, or enjoy the social circles. So yes I did complain because it wasn’t fair to the rest of us hard workers to pick up the slack for a few lazy people hiding behind the union. So you can sit there on your keyboard and say all the ridiculous garbage you want but it was my experience to live not yours.

OP...

If you spoke to your coworkers with the same disdain and anger you've demonstrated in your posts on this thread, I'm not shocked that you were a pariah. No wonder your coworkers didn't like you.

IMHO, this thread needs to be deleted. It's nothing more than racist flame bait.

TheKennady2 wrote:

Judge1310 wrote:

TheKennady2 wrote:

Yea but covert racism is very subjective, i myself have felt akward around other groups of people i had little in common with. Race is indeed real and different races have different characteristics, so in a mulicultural society it is impossible to avoid some type of misuderstanding between groups, this however does not mean it has anything to do with racism. As far as a break room, its not uncommon for people who look like one another or share the same culture to segregate themselves, ive seen this in the workplace and in the Military. Im sure this man was simply misunderstood, likely played the race card at work to cover for his likely poor job performance, now after being fired he wants to sue which i beleive is silly if he cannot prove he was a victim of obvious racism because covert racism like i said is subjective and anyone can claim it. I myself have witnessed people at in the workplace who were not good at thier jobs and created issues for others due to incompetence, people see this and they get frustrated at the employee for making the job harder, this can easilly be precieved as "Racism" by the person who simply does not want to admit hes not good at his/her job and has poor communication skills.

"... Race is indeed real and different races have different characteristics,..."

This is where our arguments fundamentally differ. Different races don't have different characteristics if we're talking solely about social interaction. It's different cultures, different upbringings that dictate how we act socially. Race does NOT equal Culture so the rest of your sentence where you say that,
"...so in a mulicultural society it is impossible to avoid some type of misuderstanding between groups,..." is fundamentally incongruent with your first phrase of the sentence.

The legal issue here is not this man's work history -- it's the environment in which was perceived as not welcoming to the entire workforce that is being adjudicated here.

I think you have a PC version of race, who told you race or genes dont create culture? What else would? Show me a example in a multi-cultural society where everyone acts and interacts the same as a group. In a perfect world this would happen but there are clear differences in culture and mentality between most groups with few exceptions. Humans are not drones who just magically fit anywhere you put them, and this is one of the challenges of Multi-culturalism. You said race does not equal culture but amost all races have different cultures, history, genetic differences, and more. You would make a good spokesperson, ignoring obvious facts to fit the PC and "lets all get along" model. And like i said, this man may have felt unwelcome but that may be more of a personal issue rather than a legal or work one. He could have very well created his own hostility through his attitude. Like they say, if you look hard enough to find the Negative you always will.

Umm... can someone....I don't even know where to start with this eugenics-minded sort of backward thinking.

Nature vs nurture. Race does NOT equal Culture. You are speaking as someone who clearly either hasn't lived life outside of what they know or has had something negative happen to them by someone considered "other".

As a long time (nearly two decades) airline employee I have come across a vast multitude of different types of people, whether they be customers or colleagues, What you purport to be truth is categorically wrong. Being PC (politically correct) is not the same as being diplomatic or open-minded. Being PC would indicate that one has some sort of agenda to purport. My only "agenda" is to display the truth: what actually happens in the airline world that customers don't see.

Judge1310 wrote:

TheKennady2 wrote:

Judge1310 wrote:

"... Race is indeed real and different races have different characteristics,..."

This is where our arguments fundamentally differ. Different races don't have different characteristics if we're talking solely about social interaction. It's different cultures, different upbringings that dictate how we act socially. Race does NOT equal Culture so the rest of your sentence where you say that,
"...so in a mulicultural society it is impossible to avoid some type of misuderstanding between groups,..." is fundamentally incongruent with your first phrase of the sentence.

The legal issue here is not this man's work history -- it's the environment in which was perceived as not welcoming to the entire workforce that is being adjudicated here.

I think you have a PC version of race, who told you race or genes dont create culture? What else would? Show me a example in a multi-cultural society where everyone acts and interacts the same as a group. In a perfect world this would happen but there are clear differences in culture and mentality between most groups with few exceptions. Humans are not drones who just magically fit anywhere you put them, and this is one of the challenges of Multi-culturalism. You said race does not equal culture but amost all races have different cultures, history, genetic differences, and more. You would make a good spokesperson, ignoring obvious facts to fit the PC and "lets all get along" model. And like i said, this man may have felt unwelcome but that may be more of a personal issue rather than a legal or work one. He could have very well created his own hostility through his attitude. Like they say, if you look hard enough to find the Negative you always will.

Umm... can someone....I don't even know where to start with this eugenics-minded sort of backward thinking.

Nature vs nurture. Race does NOT equal Culture. You are speaking as someone who clearly either hasn't lived life outside of what they know or has had something negative happen to them by someone considered "other".

As a long time (nearly two decades) airline employee I have come across a vast multitude of different types of people, whether they be customers or colleagues, What you purport to be truth is categorically wrong. Being PC (politically correct) is not the same as being diplomatic or open-minded. Being PC would indicate that one has some sort of agenda to purport. My only "agenda" is to display the truth: what actually happens in the airline world that customers don't see.

Your truth may only be from a limited perspective from your vantage point. And there are always agendas, Multiculturalism is indeed promoted and accepted in most work places as well as people with "different" lifestyles. The very fact that you admit you have seen many people from different walks of life is a admission that you have seen different cultures and personality types. Genes absolutely create culture, im not saying its the only influence but its a major part of it. My point was not in relation to only the actual work environment you or others are in, i am speaking of people who come from different cultural backgrounds and then attempt to work together,. People from different cultures may have different attitudes, job performance, ways of thinking ETC. You said nothing to prove me wrong, my whole point was that different races and cultures can influence the work place and interactions between people, this can lead to bias, misunderstandings, and confusing environments, its starts outside the workplace and trickles in, we must understand this before people start claiming racism while in the back of thier minds pretending all cultures and mentalities are Equal.

TheKennady2 wrote:

Your truth may only be from a limited perspective from your vantage point. And there are always agendas, Multiculturalism is indeed promoted and accepted in most work places as well as people with "different" lifestyles. The very fact that you admit you have seen many people from different walks of life is a admission that you have seen different cultures and personality types. Genes absolutely create culture, im not saying its the only influence but its a major part of it. My point was not in relation to only the actual work environment you or others are in, i am speaking of people who come from different cultural backgrounds and then attempt to work together,. People from different cultures may have different attitudes, job performance, ways of thinking ETC. You said nothing to prove me wrong, my whole point was that different races and cultures can influence the work place and interactions between people, this can lead to bias, misunderstandings, and confusing environments, its starts outside the workplace and trickles in, we must understand this before people start claiming racism while in the back of thier minds pretending all cultures and mentalities are Equal.

You are clearly not getting it.

Let me give you a little scenario so you can understand.

Lets say you are an upper middle class white couple that cant bear children and you decide to adopt a newborn African baby.

You raise the child listening to country music, goes to a private school or maybe homeschool, eating asparagus and all that other "stereotypically white" stuff.

Do you honestly think that child will be any different other than skin tone to one of their natural born white children? The environment shapes you, not your race. It's that simple.

The same way my mixed daughters aren't a bunch of thot's twerking and having sex at young ages. We raised them in what most would call a "white" environment, and as such they love alternative music and don't like rap and R&B. So according to your ridiculous logic they should just by the fact that they are "black" fall in line with every stereotype out there.

I'm done......

BS - to this allegation.

426Shadow wrote:

TheKennady2 wrote:

Your truth may only be from a limited perspective from your vantage point. And there are always agendas, Multiculturalism is indeed promoted and accepted in most work places as well as people with "different" lifestyles. The very fact that you admit you have seen many people from different walks of life is a admission that you have seen different cultures and personality types. Genes absolutely create culture, im not saying its the only influence but its a major part of it. My point was not in relation to only the actual work environment you or others are in, i am speaking of people who come from different cultural backgrounds and then attempt to work together,. People from different cultures may have different attitudes, job performance, ways of thinking ETC. You said nothing to prove me wrong, my whole point was that different races and cultures can influence the work place and interactions between people, this can lead to bias, misunderstandings, and confusing environments, its starts outside the workplace and trickles in, we must understand this before people start claiming racism while in the back of thier minds pretending all cultures and mentalities are Equal.

You are clearly not getting it.

Let me give you a little scenario so you can understand.

Lets say you are an upper middle class white couple that cant bear children and you decide to adopt a newborn African baby.

You raise the child listening to country music, goes to a private school or maybe homeschool, eating asparagus and all that other "stereotypically white" stuff.

Do you honestly think that child will be any different other than skin tone to one of their natural born white children? The environment shapes you, not your race. It's that simple.

The same way my mixed daughters aren't a bunch of thot's twerking and having sex at young ages. We raised them in what most would call a "white" environment, and as such they love alternative music and don't like rap and R&B. So according to your ridiculous logic they should just by the fact that they are "black" fall in line with every stereotype out there.

I'm done......

Bravo, Cheers, and Thank You!