NickolayAv wrote:Rumor is over. Flight is on sale. No official announcement from Delta yet.
Boeing 757-200 Seasonal
DL124 BOS 21:45—09:15 LIS
DL125 LIS 10:45—13:15 BOS
It's currently loaded on a domestic 757, just as was predicted.
Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
NickolayAv wrote:Rumor is over. Flight is on sale. No official announcement from Delta yet.
Boeing 757-200 Seasonal
DL124 BOS 21:45—09:15 LIS
DL125 LIS 10:45—13:15 BOS
FSDan wrote:NickolayAv wrote:Rumor is over. Flight is on sale. No official announcement from Delta yet.
Boeing 757-200 Seasonal
DL124 BOS 21:45—09:15 LIS
DL125 LIS 10:45—13:15 BOS
It's currently loaded on a domestic 757, just as was predicted.
FSDan wrote:NickolayAv wrote:Rumor is over. Flight is on sale. No official announcement from Delta yet.
Boeing 757-200 Seasonal
DL124 BOS 21:45—09:15 LIS
DL125 LIS 10:45—13:15 BOS
It's currently loaded on a domestic 757, just as was predicted.
alfa164 wrote:FSDan wrote:NickolayAv wrote:Rumor is over. Flight is on sale. No official announcement from Delta yet.
Boeing 757-200 Seasonal
DL124 BOS 21:45—09:15 LIS
DL125 LIS 10:45—13:15 BOS
It's currently loaded on a domestic 757, just as was predicted.
Do you know the start/stop dates? There is a considerable Portuguese diaspora in the Boston area; SATA has been very successful there. DL seems to have done well to LIS from JFK and ATL - and to the Azores from JFK - but, I must admit, I would have expected a different destination (maybe DUB) before another Lisbon flight.
alfa164 wrote:FSDan wrote:NickolayAv wrote:Rumor is over. Flight is on sale. No official announcement from Delta yet.
Boeing 757-200 Seasonal
DL124 BOS 21:45—09:15 LIS
DL125 LIS 10:45—13:15 BOS
It's currently loaded on a domestic 757, just as was predicted.
Do you know the start/stop dates? There is a considerable Portuguese diaspora in the Boston area; SATA has been very successful there. DL seems to have done well to LIS from JFK and ATL - and to the Azores from JFK - but, I must admit, I would have expected a different destination (maybe DUB) before another Lisbon flight.
TransWorldOne wrote:NickolayAv wrote:Rumor is over. Flight is on sale. No official announcement from Delta yet.
Boeing 757-200 Seasonal
DL124 BOS 21:45—09:15 LIS
DL125 LIS 10:45—13:15 BOS
I was just going to post on here that DL is hiring Portuguese speaking flight attendants, possibly indicating that the rumor may be true. Glad we can stop speculating now.
Minicoop764 wrote:Is anyone else noticing that you can no longer book an ATL-LIS nonstop? Did this take the place of the ATL flight?
MIflyer12 wrote:Minicoop764 wrote:Is anyone else noticing that you can no longer book an ATL-LIS nonstop? Did this take the place of the ATL flight?
ATL-LIS was announced as seasonal. Maybe they just haven't loaded it for next summer. It's worth watching.
chrisnh wrote:I know it’s been discussed to death ever since DL opened their A terminal at BOS. But is the whole customs/immigration setup there a dead issue? It seems to me that with the situation at E poised to get a lot worse before it gets better, Massport would be eager to help their own cause by allowing DL to do this. Or is it something that not even Massport can enable?
BDL757 wrote:MIflyer12 wrote:Minicoop764 wrote:Is anyone else noticing that you can no longer book an ATL-LIS nonstop? Did this take the place of the ATL flight?
ATL-LIS was announced as seasonal. Maybe they just haven't loaded it for next summer. It's worth watching.
ATL-LIS starts 23MAY (flight 122).
klm617 wrote:BDL757 wrote:MIflyer12 wrote:
ATL-LIS was announced as seasonal. Maybe they just haven't loaded it for next summer. It's worth watching.
ATL-LIS starts 23MAY (flight 122).
I don't see it listed I see now flight 124 operating ATL-BOS-LIS but no ATL-LIS nonstop
jbs2886 wrote:klm617 wrote:BDL757 wrote:
ATL-LIS starts 23MAY (flight 122).
I don't see it listed I see now flight 124 operating ATL-BOS-LIS but no ATL-LIS nonstop
122/123 are still loaded non-stop for ATL-LIS.
Minicoop764 wrote:Is anyone else noticing that you can no longer book an ATL-LIS nonstop? Did this take the place of the ATL flight?
klm617 wrote:jbs2886 wrote:klm617 wrote:
I don't see it listed I see now flight 124 operating ATL-BOS-LIS but no ATL-LIS nonstop
122/123 are still loaded non-stop for ATL-LIS.
Can you provide a link because I just looked at Delta.com for July and it's not showing up
jbs2886 wrote:klm617 wrote:BDL757 wrote:
ATL-LIS starts 23MAY (flight 122).
I don't see it listed I see now flight 124 operating ATL-BOS-LIS but no ATL-LIS nonstop
122/123 are still loaded non-stop for ATL-LIS.
jbs2886 wrote:I spot checked dates in May, June and July on the app in Flight Schedules.
Also if it were true ATL was dropped this would go against your theory (that is wholly incorrect anyways) that DL wants to route everything through ATL.
airbazar wrote:jbs2886 wrote:I spot checked dates in May, June and July on the app in Flight Schedules.
Also if it were true ATL was dropped this would go against your theory (that is wholly incorrect anyways) that DL wants to route everything through ATL.
A few points to take note:
1 - LIS has no peak time slots. It makes sense that DL is shifting the route rather than add a new one.
2 - BOS has a large O&D market.
3 - DL is making BOS a hub and will grow it. USA -> LIS require practically no backtracking regardless of where you start your journey. ATL is not a good connection point for this route.
TW870 wrote:I think the U.S. airline industry is mature to the point that the carriers aren't "putting the screws to" each other like they were right after deregulation. I think that DL sees a major opportunity for a network carrier operation in BOS and SEA.
MKIAZ wrote:The writing has been on the wall since AA/US was approved. With only 3 majors, it all comes down to what hubs you control. Not counting LA/NY, ATL/SLC/DTW/MSP is a pretty weak portfolio for DL. BOS/SEA happen to be two of the only large cities where the only other large player is a non-major airline.
As much as DL may want to build up a hub in say SFO, they know if they start trying to build it up, UA will start trying to build up ATL. No such concerns with AS/B6 (although AS did briefly try to add some SLC flying)
S28JUNATLLIS./D«
28JUN FRI ATL/EDT LIS/‡5
1DL 122 J C D I Z W Y *ATLLIS 1839 0755‡1 76W D 0 DC /E
B M H Q K L U
NO MORE - S* FOR CONX
* - FOR ADDITIONAL CLASSES ENTER S*C.
S*DBOS«
28JUN FRI BOS/EDT LIS/‡5
1TP 218 C D Z J Y *BOSLIS 1820 0545‡1 332 BD 0 256 DC /E
B M H Q V W S K A
2DL 124 P A G W Y *BOSLIS 2145 0915‡1 757 D 0 DC /E
B M H Q K L U T X
3S4 220 C D I J Y *BOSLIS 2120 1040‡1 321 DB 1 X47 AB /E
B M K W P S L Q H
NO MORE - S* FOR CONX
* - FOR ADDITIONAL CLASSES ENTER S*C.
S*DJFK«
28JUN FRI JFK/EDT LIS/‡5
1DL 272 J C D I Z W *JFKLIS 2159 1015‡1 75W D 0 DC /E
Y B M H Q K L U
2TP 208 C D Z J Y B *JFKLIS 2325 1115‡1 332 BD 0 5 DC /E
M H Q V W S K A
NO MORE - S* FOR CONX
* - FOR ADDITIONAL CLASSES ENTER S*C.
TW870 wrote:I think the U.S. airline industry is mature to the point that the carriers aren't "putting the screws to" each other like they were right after deregulation. I think that DL sees a major opportunity for a network carrier operation in BOS and SEA. They can sell their international network, and then use that network to leverage corporate accounts for premium North America traffic. AS and B6 just cannot match that portfolio. But with that said, I think AS and B6 will continue to do very well in SEA and BOS respectively, and that Delta knows that. People on a.net freaked out for the first few years of the DL expansion in SEA, and now things have calmed down on a.net. I think it will be the same with BOS.
tphuang wrote:If they are dropping ATL-LIS for BOS-LIS, then they are loosing a lot of connections at ATL. Think about how the cities in Latin America and Florida where ATL is a perfect connection point for LIS and have no DL service to JFK/BOS. Think about Northern and Central part of Brazil that would otherwise have to backtrack to Rio/Sao Paolo to get to Lisbon. They are loosing all of that. Think about all the cities in the middle of the America with no DL service to JFK/BOS like IAH, STL, OKC, MEM and others that they are going to loose 1-stop service on.
TP required a lot of connection to make this work. Which calls into question your point 2) about BOS-LIS being a large O&D market.
tphuang wrote:airbazar wrote:3 - DL is making BOS a hub and will grow it. USA -> LIS require practically no backtracking regardless of where you start your journey. ATL is not a good connection point for this route.
for 3), all the places that require backtracking to ATL could also have connected at JFK. And at ATL, they have so many flights with most airports in America that they won't to wait long for connection.
If they are dropping ATL-LIS for BOS-LIS, then they are loosing a lot of connections at ATL. Think about how the cities in Latin America and Florida where ATL is a perfect connection point for LIS and have no DL service to JFK/BOS. Think about Northern and Central part of Brazil that would otherwise have to backtrack to Rio/Sao Paolo to get to Lisbon. They are loosing all of that. Think about all the cities in the middle of the America with no DL service to JFK/BOS like IAH, STL, OKC, MEM and others that they are going to loose 1-stop service on.
TP required a lot of connection to make this work. Which calls into question your point 2) about BOS-LIS being a large O&D market.
FSDan wrote:tphuang wrote:DL has almost no spare widebody capacity for growth right now, so moving ATL-LIS to a route that can be served by a domestic 757 (which DL has no shortage of) allows them to add widebody capacity elsewhere
airbazar wrote:The only relevant LatAm market there is to Portugal is in Brazil an no one is going to connect in ATL to fly between Brazil and Portugal. And if they do, I guarantee you DL isn't making any money on them.
Ezra wrote:FSDan wrote:tphuang wrote:DL has almost no spare widebody capacity for growth right now, so moving ATL-LIS to a route that can be served by a domestic 757 (which DL has no shortage of) allows them to add widebody capacity elsewhere
This is an interesting hypothesis. What other intl cities are within range of Boston and suitable for a domestic 757? Could we see Delta add more services like this?
Ezra wrote:FSDan wrote:tphuang wrote:DL has almost no spare widebody capacity for growth right now, so moving ATL-LIS to a route that can be served by a domestic 757 (which DL has no shortage of) allows them to add widebody capacity elsewhere
This is an interesting hypothesis. What other intl cities are within range of Boston and suitable for a domestic 757? Could we see Delta add more services like this?
Dieuwer wrote:TW870 wrote:I think the U.S. airline industry is mature to the point that the carriers aren't "putting the screws to" each other like they were right after deregulation. I think that DL sees a major opportunity for a network carrier operation in BOS and SEA. They can sell their international network, and then use that network to leverage corporate accounts for premium North America traffic. AS and B6 just cannot match that portfolio. But with that said, I think AS and B6 will continue to do very well in SEA and BOS respectively, and that Delta knows that. People on a.net freaked out for the first few years of the DL expansion in SEA, and now things have calmed down on a.net. I think it will be the same with BOS.
Delta may not "put the screws" to AA or UA, but they are "putting the screws" to B6.
Alaska still has the dominant position at SEA because they saw the writing on the wall and attempted to pre-empt DL at SEA by increasing feed to their international partners and adding new destinations.
In contrast, JetBlue has been "twiddling their thumbs" at BOS and let DL swoop in and take market share. They let DL expand, and add international destinations out of BOS while B6 is still thinking about that!
Ezra wrote:FSDan wrote:tphuang wrote:DL has almost no spare widebody capacity for growth right now, so moving ATL-LIS to a route that can be served by a domestic 757 (which DL has no shortage of) allows them to add widebody capacity elsewhere
This is an interesting hypothesis. What other intl cities are within range of Boston and suitable for a domestic 757? Could we see Delta add more services like this?
bnatraveler wrote:All three routes are loaded:Code: Select allS28JUNATLLIS./D«
28JUN FRI ATL/EDT LIS/‡5
1DL 122 J C D I Z W Y *ATLLIS 1839 0755‡1 76W D 0 DC /E
B M H Q K L U
NO MORE - S* FOR CONX
* - FOR ADDITIONAL CLASSES ENTER S*C.
S*DBOS«
28JUN FRI BOS/EDT LIS/‡5
1TP 218 C D Z J Y *BOSLIS 1820 0545‡1 332 BD 0 256 DC /E
B M H Q V W S K A
2DL 124 P A G W Y *BOSLIS 2145 0915‡1 757 D 0 DC /E
B M H Q K L U T X
3S4 220 C D I J Y *BOSLIS 2120 1040‡1 321 DB 1 X47 AB /E
B M K W P S L Q H
NO MORE - S* FOR CONX
* - FOR ADDITIONAL CLASSES ENTER S*C.
S*DJFK«
28JUN FRI JFK/EDT LIS/‡5
1DL 272 J C D I Z W *JFKLIS 2159 1015‡1 75W D 0 DC /E
Y B M H Q K L U
2TP 208 C D Z J Y B *JFKLIS 2325 1115‡1 332 BD 0 5 DC /E
M H Q V W S K A
NO MORE - S* FOR CONX
* - FOR ADDITIONAL CLASSES ENTER S*C.
Dieuwer wrote:TW870 wrote:I think the U.S. airline industry is mature to the point that the carriers aren't "putting the screws to" each other like they were right after deregulation. I think that DL sees a major opportunity for a network carrier operation in BOS and SEA. They can sell their international network, and then use that network to leverage corporate accounts for premium North America traffic. AS and B6 just cannot match that portfolio. But with that said, I think AS and B6 will continue to do very well in SEA and BOS respectively, and that Delta knows that. People on a.net freaked out for the first few years of the DL expansion in SEA, and now things have calmed down on a.net. I think it will be the same with BOS.
Delta may not "put the screws" to AA or UA, but they are "putting the screws" to B6.
Alaska still has the dominant position at SEA because they saw the writing on the wall and attempted to pre-empt DL at SEA by increasing feed to their international partners and adding new destinations.
In contrast, JetBlue has been "twiddling their thumbs" at BOS and let DL swoop in and take market share. They let DL expand, and add international destinations out of BOS while B6 is still thinking about that!
LH422 wrote:A relative just booked a flight Germany-Boston through LIS since the fares were so cheap next. Not sure why that was the case.
pitbosflyer wrote:I would say this is exactly what alot of the international expansion in BOS will look like for DL. Adding 757s to places like LIS (future maybe OSL, SNN, MAD). I think it will further ramp up once they have other narrow bodies that can fill the role like Airbus A321neos. Building out the (rumor future BOS hub) with smaller TATL routes gives them more space to play with at JFK. Also it can help support a continued build up of regional flying in Bos to further grow their position there.
tphuang wrote:
so you think DL's effort to become the carrier of choice for corporation in Boston is by launching a bunch of summer seasonal flight to leisure destinations chasing after customers paying $500 R/T TATL fare?
That's going to make B6 very happy.
compensateme wrote:Geeze, a.net manufactures a lot of drama. Let’s be realistic: DL didn’t end D1 service
From ATL and replace it with a domestic 757 from BOS to ‘make a preemptive strike at B6.’ That’s crazy talk, and a product of a wild imagination of some people with too much time on their hands and too much dedication to their favorite airline.
Obviously, the service from ATL wasn’t successful enough to return. But DL must’ve had some successful pieces and figured that it could retain those via a domestic 757, which would be more successful than a D1-configured widebody.
Detroit313 wrote:Sad that the Atlanta to Lisbon service was cut.
NickolayAv wrote:Dieuwer wrote:TW870 wrote:I think the U.S. airline industry is mature to the point that the carriers aren't "putting the screws to" each other like they were right after deregulation. I think that DL sees a major opportunity for a network carrier operation in BOS and SEA. They can sell their international network, and then use that network to leverage corporate accounts for premium North America traffic. AS and B6 just cannot match that portfolio. But with that said, I think AS and B6 will continue to do very well in SEA and BOS respectively, and that Delta knows that. People on a.net freaked out for the first few years of the DL expansion in SEA, and now things have calmed down on a.net. I think it will be the same with BOS.
Delta may not "put the screws" to AA or UA, but they are "putting the screws" to B6.
Alaska still has the dominant position at SEA because they saw the writing on the wall and attempted to pre-empt DL at SEA by increasing feed to their international partners and adding new destinations.
In contrast, JetBlue has been "twiddling their thumbs" at BOS and let DL swoop in and take market share. They let DL expand, and add international destinations out of BOS while B6 is still thinking about that!
I would respectfully disagree. I think JetBlue is doing quite the opposite, in the last .5-1 year B6 has added HAV, MEX, HDN, PSP as well as adding frequencies to various markets. I think ultimately we are going to see a very similar thing as we saw in SEA. DL will greatly expand in BOS, but will probably stay as the #2 in market share. DL just isn't adding the frequencies to push out B6 out of most markets, I do however think we will see many more people connecting in BOS. Just look at the added DL Sarasota flight as an example. B6 is running daily A320 for a large part of the year, while DL will fly an E175 once weekly for 1.5 months.
Dieuwer wrote:NickolayAv wrote:Dieuwer wrote:
Delta may not "put the screws" to AA or UA, but they are "putting the screws" to B6.
Alaska still has the dominant position at SEA because they saw the writing on the wall and attempted to pre-empt DL at SEA by increasing feed to their international partners and adding new destinations.
In contrast, JetBlue has been "twiddling their thumbs" at BOS and let DL swoop in and take market share. They let DL expand, and add international destinations out of BOS while B6 is still thinking about that!
I would respectfully disagree. I think JetBlue is doing quite the opposite, in the last .5-1 year B6 has added HAV, MEX, HDN, PSP as well as adding frequencies to various markets. I think ultimately we are going to see a very similar thing as we saw in SEA. DL will greatly expand in BOS, but will probably stay as the #2 in market share. DL just isn't adding the frequencies to push out B6 out of most markets, I do however think we will see many more people connecting in BOS. Just look at the added DL Sarasota flight as an example. B6 is running daily A320 for a large part of the year, while DL will fly an E175 once weekly for 1.5 months.
Sorry, but I personally don't get excited when B6 adds second rate Caribbean destinations...
tphuang wrote:To the concept of DL "putting the screws" on B6, they've been trying to do that in JFK for years and haven't gone anywhere with it.
B6 cannot prevent DL from expanding at BOS. It's only got 31% of market share at the moment and DL has plenty of gate space. In reality, B6's market share has gone up since DL started their expansion. Frankly, BOS is becoming a huge bloodbath, especially in the transcon market. And that's due to DL's growth and B6 moves to counteract. On top of that, AA and UA are both very strong in domestic markets out of BOS and have very strong network alliances that will always keep them relevance.
iyerhari wrote:tphuang wrote:To the concept of DL "putting the screws" on B6, they've been trying to do that in JFK for years and haven't gone anywhere with it.
B6 cannot prevent DL from expanding at BOS. It's only got 31% of market share at the moment and DL has plenty of gate space. In reality, B6's market share has gone up since DL started their expansion. Frankly, BOS is becoming a huge bloodbath, especially in the transcon market. And that's due to DL's growth and B6 moves to counteract. On top of that, AA and UA are both very strong in domestic markets out of BOS and have very strong network alliances that will always keep them relevance.
Are you suggesting airline competition should just keep the status quo? You have to give credit to DL to continually seek opportunities and find new avenues. Within a span of 2 years they have added routes and continually trying options to seek avenues. Even if B6 market share in BOS has increased, B6 won't be AS is at SEA where AS commands over 60+% of the market. It is well known that AA or UA are not going to add non-hub routes. It will take time in established markets like BOS to have success. Some may work and many may falter.
tphuang wrote:I am saying that the idea dl is putting screws on b6 is not based on facts. Both airlines are growing and that’s been really good for consumers. Aa and ua will always be relevant in bos due to the strength of their hubs in some of the largest markets out of Bos. At most, dl will get to a clear number 2 position at bos unless something happens to b6. I will say this, dl seems to be quite committed to Boston, because they are loosing heavy money on a lot of new routes they added.
FYI as is at around 50% of Seattle market when accounting for international services.
iyerhari wrote:tphuang wrote:I am saying that the idea dl is putting screws on b6 is not based on facts. Both airlines are growing and that’s been really good for consumers. Aa and ua will always be relevant in bos due to the strength of their hubs in some of the largest markets out of Bos. At most, dl will get to a clear number 2 position at bos unless something happens to b6. I will say this, dl seems to be quite committed to Boston, because they are loosing heavy money on a lot of new routes they added.
FYI as is at around 50% of Seattle market when accounting for international services.
Good point but the scales are tipped very differently in AS and thanks for clarifying. I checked the Dec-2017 market share report,
AS (including Horizon air): 52.73%
DL (including DL connections): 16.91%
WN: 7.44%
UA (including connections): 7.56%
AA (including connections): 6.77%
This shows AS is way too dominant and unless there was some earth shattering incident, they are covered there for a long time which isn't the case with B6 at BOS,. They have a lot of holes in their network at BOS and not similar to SEA.
777Mech wrote:compensateme wrote:Geeze, a.net manufactures a lot of drama. Let’s be realistic: DL didn’t end D1 service
From ATL and replace it with a domestic 757 from BOS to ‘make a preemptive strike at B6.’ That’s crazy talk, and a product of a wild imagination of some people with too much time on their hands and too much dedication to their favorite airline.
Obviously, the service from ATL wasn’t successful enough to return. But DL must’ve had some successful pieces and figured that it could retain those via a domestic 757, which would be more successful than a D1-configured widebody.
That extra 767 will go towards another route to be announced soon.
iyerhari wrote:tphuang wrote:I am saying that the idea dl is putting screws on b6 is not based on facts. Both airlines are growing and that’s been really good for consumers. Aa and ua will always be relevant in bos due to the strength of their hubs in some of the largest markets out of Bos. At most, dl will get to a clear number 2 position at bos unless something happens to b6. I will say this, dl seems to be quite committed to Boston, because they are loosing heavy money on a lot of new routes they added.
FYI as is at around 50% of Seattle market when accounting for international services.
Good point but the scales are tipped very differently in AS and thanks for clarifying. I checked the Dec-2017 market share report,
AS (including Horizon air): 52.73%
DL (including DL connections): 16.91%
WN: 7.44%
UA (including connections): 7.56%
AA (including connections): 6.77%
This shows AS is way too dominant and unless there was some earth shattering incident, they are covered there for a long time which isn't the case with B6 at BOS,. They have a lot of holes in their network at BOS and not similar to SEA.
compensateme wrote:777Mech wrote:compensateme wrote:Geeze, a.net manufactures a lot of drama. Let’s be realistic: DL didn’t end D1 service
From ATL and replace it with a domestic 757 from BOS to ‘make a preemptive strike at B6.’ That’s crazy talk, and a product of a wild imagination of some people with too much time on their hands and too much dedication to their favorite airline.
Obviously, the service from ATL wasn’t successful enough to return. But DL must’ve had some successful pieces and figured that it could retain those via a domestic 757, which would be more successful than a D1-configured widebody.
That extra 767 will go towards another route to be announced soon.
Is DL planning on retiring any 763/ER before next summe? With just two 359 coming into the system next year, and just two routes ending (ATL-LIS, PIT-CDG) against all the additions (DTW-HNL, additional DTW/PDX-LHR, TPA-AMS, LAX-AMS/CDG, JFK-CDG, JFK-TLV, did I miss any?), it seems like we should expect more cancellations. Especially if India is launched.