Qatar Airways announced Da Nang Vietnam, the third destination in the country starting Dec 19 with 4 weekly 787 flights.

Source: https://instagram.com/p/BnWiLfTBW6O/

And Qatar Airways

QR is definitely ambitious expanding into some of the more secondary cities in SE Asia. PEN and CNX last year, now DAD this year.

Umm...maybe CXR next?

zakuivcustom wrote:

QR is definitely ambitious expanding into some of the more secondary cities in SE Asia. PEN and CNX last year, now DAD this year.

Umm...maybe CXR next?

They seems to be the only ME3 airline which can make secondary cities work. For Thailand alone they fly into BKK, HKT, CNX, UTP and KBV!

juliuswong wrote:

zakuivcustom wrote:

QR is definitely ambitious expanding into some of the more secondary cities in SE Asia. PEN and CNX last year, now DAD this year.

Umm...maybe CXR next?

They seems to be the only ME3 airline which can make secondary cities work. For Thailand alone they fly into BKK, HKT, CNX, UTP and KBV!

QR have better sized aircraft for these types of routes (A330, 787, A359)

EK’s is constrained by its use of the A380 and 77W (smallest aircraft is the 77L), which are far better suited to larger markets.

EK now also has FZ that it can utilize in some cases with the 737 fleet, but as they are not designed for longer range, this only really assists them in some regional to mid-range services.

Who knows how well these markets are performing for QR though. With QR limited in its options in its backyard, it has to look outside the square to grow. These Ind’s of moves can pay off, but we will wait and see.

IndianicWorld wrote:

juliuswong wrote:

zakuivcustom wrote:

QR is definitely ambitious expanding into some of the more secondary cities in SE Asia. PEN and CNX last year, now DAD this year.

Umm...maybe CXR next?

They seems to be the only ME3 airline which can make secondary cities work. For Thailand alone they fly into BKK, HKT, CNX, UTP and KBV!

QR have better sized aircraft for these types of routes (A330, 787, A359)

EK’s is constrained by its use of the A380 and 77W (smallest aircraft is the 77L), which are far better suited to larger markets.

EK now also has FZ that it can utilize in some cases with the 737 fleet, but as they are not designed for longer range, this only really assists them in some regional to mid-range services.

Who knows how well these markets are performing for QR though. With QR limited in its options in its backyard, it has to look outside the square to grow. These Ind’s of moves can pay off, but we will wait and see.

EK needs the 787 and... More slots when people want to fly.

But is QR making a profit? I'lk give them a pass for a year to establish a market.

Lightsaber

interesting. Although I wonder how many people have even heard of Danang in the West, since Asians don't need to trek all the way to Qatar in order to fly there.

tphuang wrote:

interesting. Although I wonder how many people have even heard of Danang in the West, since Asians don't need to trek all the way to Qatar in order to fly there.

Tons of Russians and quite a few number of Eastern and Western Europeans. It's a good alternative to go to Hoi An, Hue, etc.

tphuang wrote:

interesting. Although I wonder how many people have even heard of Danang in the West, since Asians don't need to trek all the way to Qatar in order to fly there.

Development in Da Nang is just insane. Ever since they open the international terminal in 2011, you're seeing new resorts being built left and right in the area. And Europeans certainly go there (along with Nha Trang) as an alternative to Thailand.

Then there are those Russians. Not as crazy recently as rubles had fell quite a bit in value. But going to Nha Trang or Da Nang 5 years ago, you would have thought that you're in Sochi or some Russian Black Sea resorts .

Regardless of the carrier always amazing to see connection of secondary points in many parts of the world not used to long haul international flying. Hopefully this route proves profitable for Qatar, and people of Da Nang.

smi0006 wrote:

Regardless of the carrier always amazing to see connection of secondary points in many parts of the world not used to long haul international flying. Hopefully this route proves profitable for Qatar, and people of Da Nang.

It is just about sea & sand traffic from Europe, specially Northern Europe, not about the "people of Da Nang"

It seems QR is creating a niche there flying to places like Chiang Mai or Da Nang. A recent destination like Goteborg (which EK does not serve either) should work very well with all those secondary SE Asian airports.

Maybe QR will launch Bergen or Billund in the future to further feed those flights.

tphuang wrote:

interesting. Although I wonder how many people have even heard of Danang in the West, since Asians don't need to trek all the way to Qatar in order to fly there.

Well, for one example: more USAmericans may be familiar with it than you might think... especially those age 40+, due to Da Nang's significance in the US involvement of the Vietnam War. Same for the Gulf of Tonkin and surrounding area.

SCQ83 wrote:

smi0006 wrote:

Regardless of the carrier always amazing to see connection of secondary points in many parts of the world not used to long haul international flying. Hopefully this route proves profitable for Qatar, and people of Da Nang.

It is just about sea & sand traffic from Europe, specially Northern Europe, not about the "people of Da Nang"

It seems QR is creating a niche there flying to places like Chiang Mai or Da Nang. A recent destination like Goteborg (which EK does not serve either) should work very well with all those secondary SE Asian airports.

Maybe QR will launch Bergen or Billund in the future to further feed those flights.

I’m not naive enough to think QR cares about the people of De Nang - but growth in the tourism sector will hopefully improve the economy, stimulate job growth and provide opportunities for the people of De Nang, not to mention Improved business connectivity. Is tourism an ideal form of sustainable economic and social development, no. But if it helps lift people out of poverty, sounds good to me.

An interesting add. Surprising to a degree, and innovative in the vein of niche routes such as Canberra, Chiang Mai, Penang & Krabi. I hope it's a success and brings tourists plus some business traffic to the region, so aiding its development.

[photoid][/photoid]

TheLion wrote:

An interesting add. Surprising to a degree, and innovative in the vein of niche routes such as Canberra, Chiang Mai, Penang & Krabi. I hope it's a success and brings tourists plus some business traffic to the region, so aiding its development.

Canberra is sadly not that innovative - only a way to get an extra flight into Sydney. Common load on a 77W are 50-60 pax. Amazes me with an aircraft the size of a 77W they are willing to use up cycles, crew costs and so much fuel on a 50min tag flight just for another Sydney flight! Still they are forcing EY out of the market.

I’d love to see QR in CNS, OOL one day, as a sneaky way to tap into BNE traffic which they can’t serve due to bilateral.

What other secondary markets await them in Asia and Africa?

zakuivcustom wrote:

tphuang wrote:

interesting. Although I wonder how many people have even heard of Danang in the West, since Asians don't need to trek all the way to Qatar in order to fly there.

Development in Da Nang is just insane. Ever since they open the international terminal in 2011, you're seeing new resorts being built left and right in the area. And Europeans certainly go there (along with Nha Trang) as an alternative to Thailand.

Then there are those Russians. Not as crazy recently as rubles had fell quite a bit in value. But going to Nha Trang or Da Nang 5 years ago, you would have thought that you're in Sochi or some Russian Black Sea resorts .

That's interesting. Never would have thought of that. Always thought it was just a place you go to get to Hue and Hoi an or for VFR purposes.

I'm not sure how many people flying in from over 10 hours away are making central Vietnam the main part of the trip. I'd imagine if it's part of a general travel itinerary in south east asia, someone would be flying into Bangkok or Hanoi.

TheLion wrote:

An interesting add. Surprising to a degree, and innovative in the vein of niche routes such as Canberra, Chiang Mai, Penang & Krabi. I hope it's a success and brings tourists plus some business traffic to the region, so aiding its development.

I'd think all of the places you mentioned in there (with the exception of Penang) have higher tourism demand than Da Nang. But would do i know.

tphuang wrote:

That's interesting. Never would have thought of that. Always thought it was just a place you go to get to Hue and Hoi an or for VFR purposes.

I'm not sure how many people flying in from over 10 hours away are making central Vietnam the main part of the trip. I'd imagine if it's part of a general travel itinerary in south east asia, someone would be flying into Bangkok or Hanoi.

Well, to be fair it was mostly just for people heading to Hoi An & Hue (or even My Son). But being the gateway city means Da Nang can develop itself as the tourist base -> more hotels (including resorts) in the area -> Da Nang become an attraction city itself. Granted, South Koreans (those 17 daily flights between ICN and DAD are no joke) and Chinese are still the main target, but the demand from Europe is definitely worth exploring (plus it shouldn't be that hard to fill up a 788).

I can imagined some people booking open-jaw ticket (If QR allows that, something that I'm not too sure about), aka something like go into HAN, go down to DAD, and fly out there (or v.v.).

tphuang wrote:

I'd think all of the places you mentioned in there (with the exception of Penang) have higher tourism demand than Da Nang. But would do i know.

Da Nang is at least more popular than Chiang Mai. Not everyone think about there when visiting Thailand, either (Mostly just Bangkok, Phuket, but not the north).

Speaking as an American who just got home from 12 days in Vietnam (SGN, DAD, and HAN) that when I go back I would choose to fly direct into DAD. Absolutely amazing area with tons to do.... we could have done 10 days just in Central Vietnam. Very cool add for QR and wish them luck! I think Vietnam will be the next big place for Americans to visit in Asia

dfdubflyer wrote:

Speaking as an American who just got home from 12 days in Vietnam (SGN, DAD, and HAN) that when I go back I would choose to fly direct into DAD. Absolutely amazing area with tons to do.... we could have done 10 days just in Central Vietnam. Very cool add for QR and wish them luck! I think Vietnam will be the next big place for Americans to visit in Asia

Helps that US passport holder can now applied for eVisa instead of having to get one in a Vietnam consulate. While it was a fairly easy process before that (Unlike, well, getting a visa to go to US for many people), it does create a barrier of entry.

Speaking of that, though, I just realized that Scandinavian countries are visa-exempt to Vietnam since 2005, while UK/Germany/Italy/Spain/France only since 2015. No wonder I see way more northern Europeans than Western Europeans while I was in Vietnam.

I do agree about Central Vietnam, though - so much to see, not enough time to everything.

zakuivcustom wrote:

Da Nang is at least more popular than Chiang Mai. Not everyone think about there when visiting Thailand, either (Mostly just Bangkok, Phuket, but not the north).

International Tourist figure is not significantly different between Chiang Mai and Danang. In fact, Chiang Mai has a little higher foreign tourist ( 2.8 million in 2016 with 10% growth forecast). Da Nang have got 2.3 foreign visitors in 2017. I have included the statistic link below.

As for Qatar tried the market like Chiang Mai, U Ta Pao (airport nearest to Pattaya), I believe they performed very poorly. Both services see the aircraft shrink from A330 size to merely A319. I do not have enough data to argue Chiang Mai market, but U Ta Pao is too close to BKK with far less infrastructure and almost equal travel time to Pattaya. So, I do not think U Ta Pao service is justifiable from the start.


http://www.pattayamail.com/thailandnews ... 017-162597
http://vietnamtourism.gov.vn/english/in ... tems/12422

Arq wrote:

As for Qatar tried the market like Chiang Mai, U Ta Pao (airport nearest to Pattaya), I believe they performed very poorly. Both services see the aircraft shrink from A330 size to merely A319. I do not have enough data to argue Chiang Mai market, but U Ta Pao is too close to BKK with far less infrastructure and almost equal travel time to Pattaya. So, I do not think U Ta Pao service is justifiable from the start.

UTP is ~1 hr max to/from Pattaya, and BKK is ~2 hr (plus you get to enjoy sitting in Bangkok traffic), so in some sense it's not really equal travel time. In other sense, though, it's definitely close enough to Bangkok where a single trip to Bangkok + Pattaya is easily doable even on fairly limited time. I guess QR is just trying something new as they have the planes to do so (unilke EK who have nothing smaller than 77W).

Arq wrote:

zakuivcustom wrote:

Da Nang is at least more popular than Chiang Mai. Not everyone think about there when visiting Thailand, either (Mostly just Bangkok, Phuket, but not the north).

International Tourist figure is not significantly different between Chiang Mai and Danang. In fact, Chiang Mai has a little higher foreign tourist ( 2.8 million in 2016 with 10% growth forecast). Da Nang have got 2.3 foreign visitors in 2017. I have included the statistic link below.

As for Qatar tried the market like Chiang Mai, U Ta Pao (airport nearest to Pattaya), I believe they performed very poorly. Both services see the aircraft shrink from A330 size to merely A319. I do not have enough data to argue Chiang Mai market, but U Ta Pao is too close to BKK with far less infrastructure and almost equal travel time to Pattaya. So, I do not think U Ta Pao service is justifiable from the start.


http://www.pattayamail.com/thailandnews ... 017-162597
http://vietnamtourism.gov.vn/english/in ... tems/12422

UTP may not be doing so well but CNX is actually doing better than expected, planned as a winter only seasonal route then extended as year round with smaller equipment in the low season. In winter 2018 its going to daily 787, an increase in capacity over last winter.

zakuivcustom wrote:

Arq wrote:

As for Qatar tried the market like Chiang Mai, U Ta Pao (airport nearest to Pattaya), I believe they performed very poorly. Both services see the aircraft shrink from A330 size to merely A319. I do not have enough data to argue Chiang Mai market, but U Ta Pao is too close to BKK with far less infrastructure and almost equal travel time to Pattaya. So, I do not think U Ta Pao service is justifiable from the start.

UTP is ~1 hr max to/from Pattaya, and BKK is ~2 hr (plus you get to enjoy sitting in Bangkok traffic), so in some sense it's not really equal travel time. In other sense, though, it's definitely close enough to Bangkok where a single trip to Bangkok + Pattaya is easily doable even on fairly limited time. I guess QR is just trying something new as they have the planes to do so (unilke EK who have nothing smaller than 77W).

You are correct that UTP is approximately an hour, but once you land, there's not much of convenient public transportation to choose from, while BKK is served with hourly comfortable shuttle bus service, which take just 1.5 hour and set you back just 120 Baht (approximately 4$). Beside, BKK is not actually in Bangkok. It's in a vicinity province to the east of Bangkok call Samut Prakarn. Trip between BKK and Pattaya will bypass Bangkok traffic. I myself prefer to take Airport Rail Link from my office to Suvarnabhumi airport and catch the shuttle from there when I go on vacation at Pattaya. It save me a lot of time.

Not that I entirely disagree with QR to start service to UTP, it's great to have more alternative. But I think they are doing it a little to soon. We are at the very beginning of "Three airport Rail Link project" initiation which include service between DMK, BKK, UTP and a stop at Pattaya as well. I think UTP will be more ready at that time.

lightsaber wrote:

IndianicWorld wrote:

juliuswong wrote:

They seems to be the only ME3 airline which can make secondary cities work. For Thailand alone they fly into BKK, HKT, CNX, UTP and KBV!

QR have better sized aircraft for these types of routes (A330, 787, A359)

EK’s is constrained by its use of the A380 and 77W (smallest aircraft is the 77L), which are far better suited to larger markets.

EK now also has FZ that it can utilize in some cases with the 737 fleet, but as they are not designed for longer range, this only really assists them in some regional to mid-range services.

Who knows how well these markets are performing for QR though. With QR limited in its options in its backyard, it has to look outside the square to grow. These Ind’s of moves can pay off, but we will wait and see.

EK needs the 787 and... More slots when people want to fly.

But is QR making a profit? I'lk give them a pass for a year to establish a market.

Lightsaber

Unfortunately QR made a substantial loss last year and Al Baker is predicting another loss for this year too

https://www.thenational.ae/business/avi ... s-1.737263

I mean you can't blame them. When you lose 18 destinations and 20% of your traffic overnight, it's really difficult to make up for that especially for a hub-and-spoke airline. In addition to that, they are launching so many new destinations to keep their aircraft flying but most new routes usually make losses initially.

As an American, I have gone to Da Nang twice on the tail end of other trips to Asia. It's a beautiful place to wind down and relax. It is relatively inexpensive, not as crowded, the people are very nice and the food is good. It's my new go-to beach resort for a couple of days to round out otherwise busy trips in the region.

Must be the only ME3 flying to Da Nang?

Da Nang is on fire. Spent a month in the area last year. Good move for Qatar.

But LAX is my airport, so those $400 giveaway fares on the Chinese carrriers are my friend to SE Asia. No need to go the long way 'round through DOH.

Don’t be fooled by the Chaing Mai tourist stats - so many are Chinese arrivals.

Fantastic city though.

Have Qatar and the other Gulf states patched up?

unrave wrote:

Have Qatar and the other Gulf states patched up?

No, and I don´t think we will see any progress in the near future.

PerfectGriffin wrote:

Unfortunately QR made a substantial loss last year and Al Baker is predicting another loss for this year too

https://www.thenational.ae/business/avi ... s-1.737263

I mean you can't blame them. When you lose 18 destinations and 20% of your traffic overnight, it's really difficult to make up for that especially for a hub-and-spoke airline. In addition to that, they are launching so many new destinations to keep their aircraft flying but most new routes usually make losses initially.

Has QR ever made any profit??

Qatar airways does not make any profit but for the Qatari government the airline is necessary, and creating a big hub in DOH is the only option, because other airlines in the area have some O&D traffic, but Doha has very little, it´s not a place where people go on holidays and very little for business, you can´t compare DOH with Dubai, Jeddah, Riyadh or Kuwait.

I was very surprise when I read about Da Nang, I was thinking about some more African routes, actually think QR has a big gap in West Africa, QR currently only serves Lagos, so I think we could see Dakar or Accra in the near future.

Great news for QR and Vietnam. Da Nang might not be the economic powerhouse but Vietnam itself is one of the fastest-growing economy in the world these years and many companies are opening factories all over the country and as other has mentioned, central Vietnam is a beautiful place for tourists with lots of things to do and visit.

migair54 wrote:

Has QR ever made any profit??

They did report profit for 3 fiscal years before the last one.

FY14-15: QAR373m
FY15-16: QAR1. 62Bn
FY16-17: QAR1. 97Bn

https://www.qatarairways.com/en/press-r ... -releases#

AA777223 wrote:

As an American, I have gone to Da Nang twice on the tail end of other trips to Asia. It's a beautiful place to wind down and relax. It is relatively inexpensive, not as crowded, the people are very nice and the food is good. It's my new go-to beach resort for a couple of days to round out otherwise busy trips in the region.

I am interested in visiting Da Nang myself (not for beach, but for the cultural stuff surrounding it), but hear the best season weather wise is a rather short period from March to June.
As that period falls somewhat outside the main Holidays during Summer and Winter, not sure if many Americans can afford - time wise - to fly half way across the globe to visit the Da Nang beach. After all, the Caribbean is much closer.

tphuang wrote:

zakuivcustom wrote:

tphuang wrote:

interesting. Although I wonder how many people have even heard of Danang in the West, since Asians don't need to trek all the way to Qatar in order to fly there.

Development in Da Nang is just insane. Ever since they open the international terminal in 2011, you're seeing new resorts being built left and right in the area. And Europeans certainly go there (along with Nha Trang) as an alternative to Thailand.

Then there are those Russians. Not as crazy recently as rubles had fell quite a bit in value. But going to Nha Trang or Da Nang 5 years ago, you would have thought that you're in Sochi or some Russian Black Sea resorts .

That's interesting. Never would have thought of that. Always thought it was just a place you go to get to Hue and Hoi an or for VFR purposes.

I'm not sure how many people flying in from over 10 hours away are making central Vietnam the main part of the trip. I'd imagine if it's part of a general travel itinerary in south east asia, someone would be flying into Bangkok or Hanoi.

You’d be imagining wrong, certainly in the case of the Russians and to a lesser extent Scandinavians. Da Nang is not as big a market for the Russians as Nha Trang, but CXR can have up to 10 flights per day to Russia on various charter airlines that I had never heard of before. They fly in, go to their resort on a meal-inclusive package, spend almost no more in the local economy, and then head straight back to Russia.

BestWestern wrote:

Don’t be fooled by the Chaing Mai tourist stats - so many are Chinese arrivals.

Fantastic city though.

To be fair, 45% of Da Nang's visitors are mainland Chinese or South Korean (Especially the latter).

https://english.vietnamnet.vn/fms/trave ... roves.html

And this is with PRC and Vietnam not exactly being friends with each other

migair54 wrote:

I was very surprise when I read about Da Nang, I was thinking about some more African routes, actually think QR has a big gap in West Africa, QR currently only serves Lagos, so I think we could see Dakar or Accra in the near future.

Definitely not near future. The inability to fly over Saudi airspace means they have to take a huge detour either by "circling" around Saudi Arabia through the south then west into Africa through Somalia/Djibouti (Usually what they do on the way to Africa), or go north to Tunisia, east on Mediterranean Sea, through Southern Turkey and fly down near Iran-Iraq border to the Persian Gulf.

Examples:
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flig ... 7#1dc9ce29 (DOH->LOS)
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flig ... 8#1dcb12f8 (LOS->DOH)