Kind of known this is where the company is going but it’s an interesting interview.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/more-mint ... e-jetblue/

Let it be known they are 10000% percent welcome IMO, if they can also somehow come in with even slightly lower fares I'm all on board. Flying AA purely out of necessity and I'm ready for new players on the TATL markets.

Come to AMS!

Also, what routes can we start expecting?

I don't see it happening anytime soon. With all the capacity by the LLC's and majors, yields have to be thin. What might work is using the A220's for second tier cities in Europe that do not a present have N/S service and would match the planes capacity. These fares could be slightly higher by eliminating a change of planes.

cheapgreek wrote:

I don't see it happening anytime soon. With all the capacity by the LLC's and majors, yields have to be thin. What might work is using the A220's for second tier cities in Europe that do not a present have N/S service and would match the planes capacity. These fares could be slightly higher by eliminating a change of planes.

A220?

This is where the A321LR would be needed. Likely possible destinations could be STN, MAN, EDI, GLA...basically trying to replicate the old CO model of TATL 757s.

They need to get their domestic operation under control first. It’s truly a mess.

They applied for lots of slots at Heathrow this winter but didn't get anything. CEO Hayes is in London next week speaking at an aviation conference with the title being about jetBlue's European service plans.

londonistan wrote:

A220?

The Airbus A220.

The aircraft formally known as C-series.

BlueberryWheats wrote:

londonistan wrote:

A220?

The Airbus A220.

The aircraft formally known as C-series.

I was just questioning the C-Series/ A220s ability to go TATL with a meaningful load..

flyguy84 wrote:

They need to get their domestic operation under control first. It’s truly a mess.

It is a mess, sorry to say. I know a couple guys that fly there and it's a circus all the time. I personally just don't see how Europe could be good for jetBlue.

aemoreira1981 wrote:

This is where the A321LR would be needed. Likely possible destinations could be STN, MAN, EDI, GLA...basically trying to replicate the old CO model of TATL 757s.

Yes. I believe it will be bought by JetBlue, the question is when?

I'd fly B6 TATL. Either visit family in Boston or NYC then on to Europe!

Lightsaber

Jetblue has been talking to Birmingham (BHX), which was in a recent Travel Weekly article with the airport after Primera pulled out on the transatlantic. They also looked around Luton about 3 1/2 years ago.

fastmover wrote:

Kind of known this is where the company is going but it’s an interesting interview.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/more-mint ... e-jetblue/

They really drive me crazy sometimes with how deliberate they are with everything.

The A220 going to Europe idea is a little surprising. Didn't think it would be able to make it. Could BOS-SNN/EDI work?

tb727 wrote:

flyguy84 wrote:

They need to get their domestic operation under control first. It’s truly a mess.

It is a mess, sorry to say. I know a couple guys that fly there and it's a circus all the time. I personally just don't see how Europe could be good for jetBlue.

yet somehow they are minting money on the mint routes, which are the closest comparisons to perspective European flights. The two are simply unrelated.

How could this guy not ask about their on time rate?

Dead last every month.

What a puff piece to not ask about that!

Another step in B6's continuing quest to be a legacy. I know there are LCCs on the Atlantic, but this will be a traditional legacy-style hub feed operation I'm sure at BOS, or maybe JFK.

tb727 wrote:

flyguy84 wrote:

They need to get their domestic operation under control first. It’s truly a mess.

It is a mess, sorry to say. I know a couple guys that fly there and it's a circus all the time. I personally just don't see how Europe could be good for jetBlue.

Can't be any worse than the current TATL mess. Who's next in the Race to the Bottom...?

I’d like to see jetBlue in Europe! It would be cool to see them on intea-European flights too

Iceland might be an interesting place to start. Greenland could be an interesting niche opportunity. Given their significant FFer bases and hub feed in key East Coast markets, they could start much in the way WestJet did. During the winter, when demand to Europe drops, they could use the planes for FLL/MCO-South America.

tphuang wrote:

fastmover wrote:

Kind of known this is where the company is going but it’s an interesting interview.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/more-mint ... e-jetblue/

They really drive me crazy sometimes with how deliberate they are with everything.

The A220 going to Europe idea is a little surprising. Didn't think it would be able to make it. Could BOS-SNN/EDI work?

tb727 wrote:

flyguy84 wrote:

They need to get their domestic operation under control first. It’s truly a mess.

It is a mess, sorry to say. I know a couple guys that fly there and it's a circus all the time. I personally just don't see how Europe could be good for jetBlue.

yet somehow they are minting money on the mint routes, which are the closest comparisons to perspective European flights. The two are simply unrelated.

They are extremely deliberate and very cautious sometimes to a fault.

tphuang wrote:

fastmover wrote:

Kind of known this is where the company is going but it’s an interesting interview.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/more-mint ... e-jetblue/

They really drive me crazy sometimes with how deliberate they are with everything.

The A220 going to Europe idea is a little surprising. Didn't think it would be able to make it. Could BOS-SNN/EDI work?

tb727 wrote:

flyguy84 wrote:

They need to get their domestic operation under control first. It’s truly a mess.

It is a mess, sorry to say. I know a couple guys that fly there and it's a circus all the time. I personally just don't see how Europe could be good for jetBlue.

yet somehow they are minting money on the mint routes, which are the closest comparisons to perspective European flights. The two are simply unrelated.

Exactly. If they're making money then it's a good network. Also personally I don't see how it's a mess. They have a solid network out of the East Coast. They tried West too but that doesn't seem to be going as well, doesn't mean it's a mess tho.

OA940 wrote:

tphuang wrote:

fastmover wrote:

Kind of known this is where the company is going but it’s an interesting interview.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/more-mint ... e-jetblue/

They really drive me crazy sometimes with how deliberate they are with everything.

The A220 going to Europe idea is a little surprising. Didn't think it would be able to make it. Could BOS-SNN/EDI work?

tb727 wrote:

It is a mess, sorry to say. I know a couple guys that fly there and it's a circus all the time. I personally just don't see how Europe could be good for jetBlue.

yet somehow they are minting money on the mint routes, which are the closest comparisons to perspective European flights. The two are simply unrelated.

Exactly. If they're making money then it's a good network. Also personally I don't see how it's a mess. They have a solid network out of the East Coast. They tried West too but that doesn't seem to be going as well, doesn't mean it's a mess tho.

Their network isn’t a mess. Their operations are, specifically in regards to on time performance.

LuxuryTravelled wrote:

Jetblue has been talking to Birmingham (BHX), which was in a recent Travel Weekly article with the airport after Primera pulled out on the transatlantic. They also looked around Luton about 3 1/2 years ago.

BHX+ TATL = disaster

They'll do BOS > DUB first probably , its low risk and almost domestic ...

How about on A330s, as pictured?

Galwayman wrote:

They'll do BOS > DUB first probably , its low risk and almost domestic ...

Then that'll be with the A220 I suppose. All Biz? Like BA LCY-JFK? via SNN (stop.....)

marktci wrote:

How about on A330s, as pictured?

I think 330neo's make so much sense for B6. Especially if they could pickup some quickly and for good pricing.

Let's be realistic, the 321LR will be great for secondary Europe cities, but for BOS/JFK/FLL - LON/PAR, they could easily fill 330's and have room for freight.

They could even do some interesting routes outside of the range of 321LR like a JFK-TLV.

After they merge with UAL......UAL goes ro Europe.......

Somehow I don’t see them flying to Europe. There is too much competition.

ZuluTime wrote:

They applied for lots of slots at Heathrow this winter but didn't get anything. CEO Hayes is in London next week speaking at an aviation conference with the title being about jetBlue's European service plans.

If they want to play with the "Big Boys," then they need to step up to the plate and fork over couple of hundred million is the entry fee.

B6 would need an entirely distinct Mint product.

senatorflyer wrote:

Somehow I don’t see them flying to Europe. There is too much competition.

But who’s to say they won’t make others crack & give up the ghost?

eicvd wrote:

senatorflyer wrote:

Somehow I don’t see them flying to Europe. There is too much competition.

But who’s to say they won’t make others crack & give up the ghost?

Somehow I don’t see them giving the BA/AA JV, LH Group, DL/KLM and the likes the run for their money.

senatorflyer wrote:

eicvd wrote:

senatorflyer wrote:

Somehow I don’t see them flying to Europe. There is too much competition.

But who’s to say they won’t make others crack & give up the ghost?

Somehow I don’t see them giving the BA/AA JV, LH Group, DL/KLM and the likes the run for their money.

But what about Norwegian & Primera? The number of pax flying transatlantic will grow in the future too

MKIAZ wrote:

marktci wrote:

How about on A330s, as pictured?

I think 330neo's make so much sense for B6. Especially if they could pickup some quickly and for good pricing.

Let's be realistic, the 321LR will be great for secondary Europe cities, but for BOS/JFK/FLL - LON/PAR, they could easily fill 330's and have room for freight.

They could even do some interesting routes outside of the range of 321LR like a JFK-TLV.

A330neos are too much risk for B6. If it doesn’t work out with A321LR they just remove the extra ACT and use it in their network like a regular A321neo. If it doesn’t work out with the A330neo then B6 just spent hundreds of millions of dollars on aircraft/training/maintenance/etc for something they would have no use for anymore.

eicvd wrote:

senatorflyer wrote:

eicvd wrote:

But who’s to say they won’t make others crack & give up the ghost?

Somehow I don’t see them giving the BA/AA JV, LH Group, DL/KLM and the likes the run for their money.

But what about Norwegian & Primera? The number of pax flying transatlantic will grow in the future too

If I am not mistaken Norwegian isn’t profitable and Primera suspended all LH flights from Birmingham already.

senatorflyer wrote:

Somehow I don’t see them flying to Europe. There is too much competition.

It’s not if it’s when. They are going unless they get rid of Robin Hayes and go in a totally different direction.
They are sitting on two amazing airports to go TATL it would almost be insane for them not to. The 321lr is the perfect plane and it will have a different mint product vs what there is today.

fastmover wrote:

senatorflyer wrote:

Somehow I don’t see them flying to Europe. There is too much competition.

It’s not if it’s when. They are going unless they get rid of Robin Hayes and go in a totally different direction.
They are sitting on two amazing airports to go TATL it would almost be insane for them not to. The 321lr is the perfect plane and it will have a different mint product vs what there is today.

Having two amazing airports in the US is all nice but all the important airports in Europe have strong home carriers and JV’s. Good luck trying to compete on LON - NYC.

senatorflyer wrote:

fastmover wrote:

senatorflyer wrote:

Somehow I don’t see them flying to Europe. There is too much competition.

It’s not if it’s when. They are going unless they get rid of Robin Hayes and go in a totally different direction.
They are sitting on two amazing airports to go TATL it would almost be insane for them not to. The 321lr is the perfect plane and it will have a different mint product vs what there is today.

Having two amazing airports in the US is all nice but all the important airports in Europe have strong home carriers and JV’s. Good luck trying to compete on LON - NYC.

They are not Norwegian air.

And they are the largest carrier in BOS and second largest in JFK. Their product is already proven on transcon market facing the same players. I can assure you if they have the lowest J fares on NYC-LON, they will get most of my company's business. They will have no problem filling a couple of planes of A321s to London from New York.

And just like the current Mint flights, Jetblue wants to go after the business fares.
Quoting from the article:
“We also think that the premium market in Europe is interesting — a market that’s potentially ripe for some disruption.”
And
“The opportunity is to address the obscene fares that customers are paying for premium flights between the US and Europe. I won’t mention the airline but I’m just looking at one here on a website for a round trip in Business Class in seven days’ time from London to Boston from $8,795. That is just obscene.”

Jetblue doesn’t upgrade people into Mint, even as a nonrev employees have to pay to get a seat in Mint.
If Jetblue can have say an extended Mint product that day has 30-40 MINT seats that extends to around the wing (since there is no L2/R2 doors on a 321LR, and with pricing to go after the business and high end leisure travelers, it would really get the attention of the legacy TATL airlines. People doubted MINT when it first started and it has been a very big success.
But Jetblue needs to get things going on one of the worst kept secrets of their desires to go to Europe. I’m sure Delta is just waiting and prepared financially to counter whenever they do announce it.

tphuang wrote:

senatorflyer wrote:

fastmover wrote:

It’s not if it’s when. They are going unless they get rid of Robin Hayes and go in a totally different direction.
They are sitting on two amazing airports to go TATL it would almost be insane for them not to. The 321lr is the perfect plane and it will have a different mint product vs what there is today.

Having two amazing airports in the US is all nice but all the important airports in Europe have strong home carriers and JV’s. Good luck trying to compete on LON - NYC.

They are not Norwegian air.

And they are the largest carrier in BOS and second largest in JFK. Their product is already proven on transcon market facing the same players. I can assure you if they have the lowest J fares on NYC-LON, they will get most of my company's business. They will have no problem filling a couple of planes of A321s to London from New York.

Exactly. Look what RH is talking about. It’s all about mint and the premium pax. That is where they see the market. Jetblue will be able to feed it’s own flights. We are talking 321s here it won’t be hard to fill them. Mint holds its own on the transcons which are very competitive so I don’t see why TATL will be much different.

As you said in the other post they are very very deliberate so if they didn’t think this would work it would not happen.

FlyinRabbit88 wrote:

And just like the current Mint flights, Jetblue wants to go after the business fares.
Quoting from the article:
“We also think that the premium market in Europe is interesting — a market that’s potentially ripe for some disruption.”
And
“The opportunity is to address the obscene fares that customers are paying for premium flights between the US and Europe. I won’t mention the airline but I’m just looking at one here on a website for a round trip in Business Class in seven days’ time from London to Boston from $8,795. That is just obscene.”

Jetblue doesn’t upgrade people into Mint, even as a nonrev employees have to pay to get a seat in Mint.
If Jetblue can have say an extended Mint product that day has 30-40 MINT seats that extends to around the wing (since there is no L2/R2 doors on a 321LR, and with pricing to go after the business and high end leisure travelers, it would really get the attention of the legacy TATL airlines. People doubted MINT when it first started and it has been a very big success.
But Jetblue needs to get things going on one of the worst kept secrets of their desires to go to Europe. I’m sure Delta is just waiting and prepared financially to counter whenever they do announce it.

Almost like you know the configuration of the plane..... you nailed it.

tphuang wrote:

senatorflyer wrote:

fastmover wrote:

It’s not if it’s when. They are going unless they get rid of Robin Hayes and go in a totally different direction.
They are sitting on two amazing airports to go TATL it would almost be insane for them not to. The 321lr is the perfect plane and it will have a different mint product vs what there is today.

Having two amazing airports in the US is all nice but all the important airports in Europe have strong home carriers and JV’s. Good luck trying to compete on LON - NYC.

They are not Norwegian air.

And they are the largest carrier in BOS and second largest in JFK. Their product is already proven on transcon market facing the same players. I can assure you if they have the lowest J fares on NYC-LON, they will get most of my company's business. They will have no problem filling a couple of planes of A321s to London from New York.

It’s all well mate, but the London market is very different. You can’t compete with BA‘s shuttle to JFK starting at GBP 1300 for C departing every 30-40min. JetBlue has proven they can’t get any slots at LHR, even if they were lucky that would set them back by 200 something million a pair. Apart from Gatwick all other airports are not good enough for TATL and even Gatwick has its downsides. So, by all means, they can try but I fear they won’t mske it work.

SurfandSnow wrote:

Iceland might be an interesting place to start. Greenland could be an interesting niche opportunity. Given their significant FFer bases and hub feed in key East Coast markets, they could start much in the way WestJet did. During the winter, when demand to Europe drops, they could use the planes for FLL/MCO-South America.

They already codeshare, and even offer miles to their FF members (and vv), on all FI flights from BOS/EWR/JFK/MCO/TPA so I'm not really sure flights on their own metal would add much. Another thing is that FI's current bank system at KEF doesn't really work for US carriers to connect to, as the aircraft would need to sit 10+ hrs in order to capture the wave in both directions.

What do they offer to the market that customers can't get already get?

Low fares? They are already at rock bottom, even on legacies. Frequency? Not on a scale to compete with the immunised JV's. Quality of product? Maybe, but enough to charge enough of a premium to overcome the trash baseline fares? No. Brand recognition? In the US maybe, in Europe no.

If I am am B6 shareholder I would want a damn good explanation as to why they were wading into the TATL bloodbath and exactly how they expect to make any money from it.

JetBlue's profits rely heavily on MINT. No secret there. When the economy tanks and goes in the crapper, and it will (just a question of when) I hope B6 has a plan to sell those MINT seats at a profit. The kind of traveler B6 goes after for MINT will dry up in a very bad economy. B6 has been riding a very high wave of popularity with MINT due to a very robust and strong economy. Take that away and.....It will be interesting to say the least.

As far as B6 to London, been discussed to death. LHR aint happening. Business travelers, the ones spending the big bucks, want more options than one or two daily A321's from BOS-LHR. JetBlue is NOT all of a sudden gonna have a plethora of LHR slots wind up in their laps. Don't business travelers prefer LHR? I'm sure they could poach a few passengers away from the big US3 and fill a few planes up to AMS/CDG/FRA etc.

evomutant wrote:

What do they offer to the market that customers can't get already get?

Low fares? They are already at rock bottom, even on legacies. Frequency? Not on a scale to compete with the immunised JV's. Quality of product? Maybe, but enough to charge enough of a premium to overcome the trash baseline fares? No. Brand recognition? In the US maybe, in Europe no.

If I am am B6 shareholder I would want a damn good explanation as to why they were wading into the TATL bloodbath and exactly how they expect to make any money from it.

Fares are way too high in tatl market. The j fares are higher to London than to Singapore. Think about that! What mint will do is destroy the yields in tatl market because legacies rely on j cabin to make profits.

If they can capture a large part of us point of sale, why would they need European side? You do realize that they face the same problem in transcon market and do extremely well.

There are a whole bunch of “they can’t” posts here. This is exactly what was said when mint came out. It can’t work it won’t work it will be a bloodbath and so on. Turned out they could and did/do very well with it. It’s not even a huge investment. We are talking 321lrs it’s not such a huge step. They are not looking to displace anyone but just to fly jetblue passangers to Europe vs sending them on other carriers. With Boston and JFK and the 321lr and the success of mint it’s hardly risky.

jumbojet wrote:

JetBlue's profits rely heavily on MINT. No secret there. When the economy tanks and goes in the crapper, and it will (just a question of when) I hope B6 has a plan to sell those MINT seats at a profit. The kind of traveler B6 goes after for MINT will dry up in a very bad economy. B6 has been riding a very high wave of popularity with MINT due to a very robust and strong economy. Take that away and.....It will be interesting to say the least.

You could absolutely say that for almost any luxury type item. Once the economy tanks, and it will at some point, every airline is going to be hurting. Not sure why jetBlue would be singled out here?

Jetblue has a good brand, they have some great hard product and soft product as well meaning they can deliver a small revenue premium other carriers can't. I could see them doing well on TATL if they position themselves right. Starting off in London wouldn't be smart as they would need to work out the kinks and not to mention slot costs are an absolute nightmare. Starting off with flights to places like ORY, DUB, EDI, and other smaller European cities would increase their brand recognition and see if they can successfully fly TATL, then, work towards the big boy flights to London maybe with widebodies if initial TATL works out well.