AA announces PHL-TXL/DBV/BLQ/EDI, PHX-LHR, DFW-DUB/MUC, CLT-MUC, ORD-ATH

usflyer msp · Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:07 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
phllax wrote:
enilria wrote:
PHL was never going to get dehubbed. I don't know who said that. It has always been one of America's most dominated and profitable hubs. There was no chance of that happening. The question was where would Atlantic end up. I think there was a case to be made that either would gain or lose. I think the jury is still somewhat out on what happens with AA's JFK presence, but "the fat lady" is warming up. Despite the other crazy thread AA isn't leaving JFK. Shrinking, though. It would be interesting if AA and B6 run back to each other's arms like in the old days.

Remember that the PHL metro area is the largest in the country served by a single airport.

And still PHL can't crack the top 15 airports in terms of domestic O&D. ATL has 85% more traffic.

To be fair, due to the close proximity of NYC and WAS, virtually no one flies there from PHL. In most airports those are two of the top 8 destinations so this makes PHL have depressed O&D numbers compared to its peer cities.

asuflyer · Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:11 pm

AA is definitely struggling behind UA and DL.
- They can’t make money on P2P flying besides the Saturday seasonals to CUN, DL sees these as opportunities.
- In Asia they can’t compete with the costs of HU, CA, MU or CZ, nor is their soft product is appealing to Asian travelers.
- With a declining NYC presence, they have lost many FF and corporate contracts to DL and B6.
- Years ago they used to lead on LAX-YYZ now that AC has dumped capacity with 777’s and 787’s with a better product, they can’t compete.
- Cutting JFK-PAP/FLL before the winter peak season doesn't make sense, although DL recently announced JFK-PAP.
- Unlike UA who extensively refurbished their 767s to extend their service life, AA’s offer an inferior product and they are constantly AOG.
- Fleet wise consolidating the 777 at JFK, 767’s at PHL and 330’s mainly at CLT makes sense, this is a strategy AA has used before with 738 and M80's.

TWFlyGuy · Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:24 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
phllax wrote:

Remember that the PHL metro area is the largest in the country served by a single airport.

And still PHL can't crack the top 15 airports in terms of domestic O&D. ATL has 85% more traffic.

To be fair, due to the close proximity of NYC and WAS, virtually no one flies there from PHL. In most airports those are two of the top 8 destinations so this makes PHL have depressed O&D numbers compared to its peer cities.

That is the issue. When you look at Atlanta metro, there's no other major airport anywhere around. You have to go 4 hours north CLT. For PHL, Newark is an hour and a half away from city center. The catchment area is just a lot smaller.

steeler83 · Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:24 pm

To the folks who were suggesting LH might upgauge FRA-PHL, what do you see them upgauging to? 779? 748? A350? I wonder which variant of the A340 they currently have on FRA-PHL. All the airline's website says is A340...

TWFlyGuy · Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:28 pm

asuflyer wrote:
AA is definitely struggling behind UA and DL.
- They can’t make money on P2P flying besides the Saturday seasonals to CUN, DL sees these as opportunities.
- In Asia they can’t compete with the costs of HU, CA, MU or CZ, nor is their soft product is appealing to Asian travelers.
- With a declining NYC presence, they have lost many FF and corporate contracts to DL and B6.
- Years ago they used to lead on LAX-YYZ now that AC has dumped capacity with 777’s and 787’s with a better product, they can’t compete.
- Cutting JFK-PAP/FLL before the winter peak season doesn't make sense, although DL recently announced JFK-PAP.
- Unlike UA who extensively refurbished their 767s to extend their service life, AA’s offer an inferior product and they are constantly AOG.
- Fleet wise consolidating the 777 at JFK, 767’s at PHL and 330’s mainly at CLT makes sense, this is a strategy AA has used before with 738 and M80's.

Asia isn't just competing with costs for the Chinese carriers, it's also competing on the other end with much more established UA & DL network and customer base.

The P2P issues may be more about the fleet. As they retire 767's, they don't have an aircraft that is the right size for purely local markets. 788's are slightly larger but they don't have enough to go around. So, they're focusing on the hubs.

DLHAM · Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:30 pm

LGAviation wrote:
Great news for Berlin and although yields are probably still pretty bad, Berlin desperately needs more TATL capacity. Still, a pity they didnt include HAM as well.

This would be great, in fact HAM had 10%+ more passengers to PHL last year than Berlin. But Airlines are avoiding HAM with TATL routes like its poison.

sagechan · Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:30 pm

asuflyer wrote:
AA is definitely struggling behind UA and DL.
- They can’t make money on P2P flying besides the Saturday seasonals to CUN, DL sees these as opportunities.
- In Asia they can’t compete with the costs of HU, CA, MU or CZ, nor is their soft product is appealing to Asian travelers.
- With a declining NYC presence, they have lost many FF and corporate contracts to DL and B6.
- Years ago they used to lead on LAX-YYZ now that AC has dumped capacity with 777’s and 787’s with a better product, they can’t compete.
- Cutting JFK-PAP/FLL before the winter peak season doesn't make sense, although DL recently announced JFK-PAP.
- Unlike UA who extensively refurbished their 767s to extend their service life, AA’s offer an inferior product and they are constantly AOG.
- Fleet wise consolidating the 777 at JFK, 767’s at PHL and 330’s mainly at CLT makes sense, this is a strategy AA has used before with 738 and M80's.

1) AA has made a strategic decision to focus on a hub strategy and has little interest in p2p due to that focus. Is it right who knows but doesn't indicate that they can't make profits on those flights.

2) none of the US3 can compete with subsidized Chinese flights or costs of Chinese carriers and yields reflect that. AA is also structurally weaker in ORD to Asia than UA for many reasons, AA is willing to walk away from loses there.

3) Not sure what AA will finally do in JFK. LGA is a fairly good operation, but they cant compete with DL or B6 in size at JFK and they are also too small to make a strong connecting hub. Will be worth watching the long term alignment there.

4) pretty accurate. AC wodebodies probably hurt them in both yield depression and reduction in premium demand.

5)presumably lower yielding leisure routes, AA is choosing to reduce, once again an issue with appropriate size being behind DL & B6

6)very true, but AA also is retiring the 763s much earlier than UA so harder to have justified refurbishment with less time to recoup cost

7) yup

ams747757 · Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:35 pm

LH generally uses the Cityline A340-300 for PHL-FRA. I suppose they could upgauge to a 346 or 350 but I've always heard that PHL can't seem to sustain a high level of business traffic hence the 18-J configuration of the CL 340. I flew LH426 recently and Y seemed pretty much full- not sure about J. It is a bit surprising that AA would cancel its FRA flight given the business and leisure travel between PHL and Germany, but I'm sure LH is glad.

GSP psgr · Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:57 pm

[photoid][/photoid]

ams747757 wrote:
LH generally uses the Cityline A340-300 for PHL-FRA. I suppose they could upgauge to a 346 or 350 but I've always heard that PHL can't seem to sustain a high level of business traffic hence the 18-J configuration of the CL 340. I flew LH426 recently and Y seemed pretty much full- not sure about J. It is a bit surprising that AA would cancel its FRA flight given the business and leisure travel between PHL and Germany, but I'm sure LH is glad.

It will also be interesting to see if LH opts to give PHL-MUC a go, even if only on a summer seasonal basis. Filling the back of the bus might not be too difficult, but could they fill the front at any sort of profitable level?

afcjets · Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:02 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
No gates available for LH.

So that means no gates if Air France, IcelandAir, Wow, Qatar, KLM, or another international carrier wants to fly to CLT? Do you think CLT Airport's response will be sorry, we don't have any gates?

When LH flew CLT-FRA before the flight did not depart CLT until 940p which is 3 hours after their current CLT-MUC flight departs. If both flights operated today, they could use the same departure gate.

I worked D-Con international maintenance for US, they left way earlier than that. They used D4.

And yes look at DL at DAL and B6 took forever to get back into ORD.

CLTs gates are all spoken for, even common use.

International is so busy the are arriving at D- Con, deplaning and services and moved to B or C for departures.

In Spring 1992 through the end, LH449 departed CLT at 940p. The return LH448 from FRA arrived around 1230p, the LH flights you saw departing "way earlier than that" (940p) were the CLT-IAH-CLT flights. LH used gate D3. US used D1/D2. D4 was almost never used before LH quit the route in late 1992, so LH had the entire D3/D4 departure lounge (which is now D3/D5 as D expansion in 2003 changed the gate number) except when US flew an extra section and the occasional weekend charter to the Caribbean or CUN IIRC (or did that start later?). Once LH had a maintenence issue and they chartered a US 733 for the CLT-IAH-CLT flight and it departed from gate D4, next to the LH 74C which was always parked at D3. In 1991 and earlier, the flight actually departed CLT even later and it looks like it stopped in DFW instead of ATL the other days per week. The arrival from IAH was not until 930p. You can only see the domestic tag here on departedflights.com which shows both directions:

http://www.departedflights.com/IAH91p1.html

http://www.departedflights.com/CLT91p3.html

Midwest2K · Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:13 pm

LH moved DFW back to a 333 a few days ago:

Frankfurt – Dallas/Ft. Worth eff 31MAR19 A330-300 continues operating 1 daily, replacing previously filed A340-600

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-17aug18/

So much for the 346 at DFW next summer. But MUC and DUB will be nonstop!

Freshside3 · Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:17 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
Btw with AA launching Dubrovnik, wouldn't it make sense to launch in the future other high-end holiday spots like Ibiza or Santorini/Mykonos? IMO DBV opens a door of opportunity to new ideas in terms of seasonal routes.

Do any Americans (Not the airline, the people) even go to Ibiza? I've always thought that it's nothing more than a party central for Germans/Brits/Spaniards to get booze . And how "high-end" IBZ really is anyway? It's certainly not NCE/Cote d'Azur.

And can JMK and JTR even handle long-haul? Their runways are not exactly that long.

No, JMK and JTR can't handle long-haul. RHO and CHQ definitely can.......but not nearly as much of demand for these places as JMK/JTR.

IBZ, well some minor demand from California, and even then, that's not that much. And certainly not enough to warrant adding a flight.

Freshside3 · Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:25 pm

jayunited wrote:
I was hoping UA would be first to announce ORD-ATH, maybe UA will announce IAD-ATH. .

I had hoped UA would have picked up ORD-ATH first, too. It would make no sense to go head-to-head against AA on ORD-ATH, at all. If they wanted to "counter" it, would be logical to get IAD-ATH, and then maybe some other southern or eastern European route out of ORD.

SCQ83 · Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:38 pm

Btw with so much demand to DBV from the US, isn't it odd that neither Icelandair nor WOW fly KEF-DBV on a seasonal basis?

kngkyle · Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:53 pm

United commented to the Chicago Tribune on the ORD-Asia market following the AA announcement.

American’s biggest competitor at O’Hare, United Airlines, said its service between Chicago and Asia continues to meet expectations.

“We are pleased with the performance of our flights between Chicago and Asia and remain firmly committed to providing our customers nonstop, daily, year-round service between our Chicago hub and Asia, including Beijing, Shanghai, Hong Kong and Tokyo,” said Jonathan Guerin, a spokesman for Chicago-based United.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ ... story.html

usairways85 · Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:18 pm

ams747757 wrote:
LH generally uses the Cityline A340-300 for PHL-FRA. I suppose they could upgauge to a 346 or 350 but I've always heard that PHL can't seem to sustain a high level of business traffic hence the 18-J configuration of the CL 340. I flew LH426 recently and Y seemed pretty much full- not sure about J. It is a bit surprising that AA would cancel its FRA flight given the business and leisure travel between PHL and Germany, but I'm sure LH is glad.

Yea, but it was a 346 for a while even after US left *A and the past winter or two they've switched it to the 4 class 333. My guess is PHL-FRA goes to a 346 or 359. I don't see LH adding PHL-MUC.

I am curious about the push for CLT TA flights. PHL has a base of O&D but to push so many connections through CLT sort of marginalizes PHL.

It's moves like this that cause people around PHL to simply pass on PHL all together and opt to fly out of EWR with several daily flights to MUC and FRA.

JakubH · Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:21 pm

Flighty wrote:
apodino wrote:
Not entirely True. This is not mentioned in the announcement, but PHL-PRG is being upgraded to an A330-200 next summer.

Another real wow. That puts PRG into the major leagues as an Atlantic destination.

Is this equipment upgrade confirmed? If so, fantastic news (though I had wished for a 787

).

Bigant0408 · Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:21 pm

ams747757 wrote:
LH generally uses the Cityline A340-300 for PHL-FRA. I suppose they could upgauge to a 346 or 350 but I've always heard that PHL can't seem to sustain a high level of business traffic hence the 18-J configuration of the CL 340. I flew LH426 recently and Y seemed pretty much full- not sure about J. It is a bit surprising that AA would cancel its FRA flight given the business and leisure travel between PHL and Germany, but I'm sure LH is glad.

I know starting in fall LH will change FRA-PHL from A340 to A330. So it is a downgrade but see if this AA cancellation might change there minds

BenflysDTW · Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:31 pm

This proves once again the increased importance of the PHL hub over JFK.

EvanWSFO · Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:40 pm

Skyblue39 wrote:
Fantastic to (finally) see Dallas to Dublin !!!

This will likely end (for now) talk of EI entering DFW. I'm not convinced DUB or MUC will be a success from DFW. Should be interesting.

Miamiairport · Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:51 pm

PAP is a bit surprising as that route supposedly was a big money maker but that was probably pre Spirit. With the axing of FLL/PAP does AA have any P2P routes left except for RDU/LHR?

717atOGG · Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:55 pm

Miamiairport wrote:
PAP is a bit surprising as that route supposedly was a big money maker but that was probably pre Spirit. With the axing of FLL/PAP does AA have any P2P routes left except for RDU/LHR?

They have a few P2P routes out of BOS, PIT-RDU, and some Sat-only CUN flights to my memory, but other than that (and a few others I might be forgetting), it's just hub flying.

LupineChemist · Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:25 pm

Wow, and I just saw BA is increasing PHX-LHR, that's a lot of capacity growth.

Seems clear there was just a large strategy meeting of the JV with the AY annoucement for LAX and all this out of AA as well.

Should we expect some announcements/changes from IB and BA as well?

Is DFW-DUB a sign that EI will be joining the JV shortly?

ams747757 · Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:30 pm

usairways85 wrote:
ams747757 wrote:
LH generally uses the Cityline A340-300 for PHL-FRA. I suppose they could upgauge to a 346 or 350 but I've always heard that PHL can't seem to sustain a high level of business traffic hence the 18-J configuration of the CL 340. I flew LH426 recently and Y seemed pretty much full- not sure about J. It is a bit surprising that AA would cancel its FRA flight given the business and leisure travel between PHL and Germany, but I'm sure LH is glad.

Yea, but it was a 346 for a while even after US left *A and the past winter or two they've switched it to the 4 class 333. My guess is PHL-FRA goes to a 346 or 359. I don't see LH adding PHL-MUC.

I am curious about the push for CLT TA flights. PHL has a base of O&D but to push so many connections through CLT sort of marginalizes PHL.

It's moves like this that cause people around PHL to simply pass on PHL all together and opt to fly out of EWR with several daily flights to MUC and FRA.

Agreed- I have done it myself, EWR isn't that far away. Not everyone will do that, but I have even known business travelers from the PHL area to use EWR- Germany because the fares can be low enough that corporate policy renders the PHL flight too expensive to justify the time savings.

Bigant0408 wrote:

I know starting in fall LH will change FRA-PHL from A340 to A330. So it is a downgrade but see if this AA cancellation might change there minds

I'd assume the switch to 333 is due to not being able to fill Y with as many travelers during the fall and winter. Would be fun to see the 346 back next spring or summer though , or another 359. I won't hold my breath on a 744.

cm642 · Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:39 pm

ScottB wrote:
cathay747 wrote:
777PHX wrote:
So where's everyone at that was absolutely sure PHX was going to become the next STL or CVG?

Yeah, exactly...crickets. I hope that this news will once-and-for-all stop all that constant, unending pontificating!

AA adding PHX-LHR doesn't say much if the flight replaces a BA frequency -- it's a negative, actually, if the flight supplants the daily 744 frequency. If it replaces the 3x weekly then it's a capacity increase, but the 777-200ER has ~70 fewer seats than the low-J 744 BA uses to PHX.

This will be a capacity increase as it will complement BA's existing daily 744 flight more than likely replacing the 3x-weekly additional flight! It's the only one of the newest international additions from AA not pending approval so must've been a slot trade with BA.

More info from PHX: https://www.skyharbor.com/Media/PressReleases/2018/08/21/american-airlines-announces-service-between-phx-sky-harbor-and-london-heathrow

Bigant0408 · Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:55 pm

ams747757 wrote:
usairways85 wrote:
ams747757 wrote:
LH generally uses the Cityline A340-300 for PHL-FRA. I suppose they could upgauge to a 346 or 350 but I've always heard that PHL can't seem to sustain a high level of business traffic hence the 18-J configuration of the CL 340. I flew LH426 recently and Y seemed pretty much full- not sure about J. It is a bit surprising that AA would cancel its FRA flight given the business and leisure travel between PHL and Germany, but I'm sure LH is glad.

Yea, but it was a 346 for a while even after US left *A and the past winter or two they've switched it to the 4 class 333. My guess is PHL-FRA goes to a 346 or 359. I don't see LH adding PHL-MUC.

I am curious about the push for CLT TA flights. PHL has a base of O&D but to push so many connections through CLT sort of marginalizes PHL.

It's moves like this that cause people around PHL to simply pass on PHL all together and opt to fly out of EWR with several daily flights to MUC and FRA.

Agreed- I have done it myself, EWR isn't that far away. Not everyone will do that, but I have even known business travelers from the PHL area to use EWR- Germany because the fares can be low enough that corporate policy renders the PHL flight too expensive to justify the time savings.

Bigant0408 wrote:

I know starting in fall LH will change FRA-PHL from A340 to A330. So it is a downgrade but see if this AA cancellation might change there minds

I'd assume the switch to 333 is due to not being able to fill Y with as many travelers during the fall and winter. Would be fun to see the 346 back next spring or summer though , or another 359. I won't hold my breath on a 744.

Yea you could be right for that reason for the switch. I’d be happy a 359 to add more variety to PHL

Yossarian22 · Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:55 pm

enilria wrote:
jasoncrh wrote:
way too much capacity. low fares. it's not that hard.

enilria wrote:
I really don't understand how that route can be bad.

It's a business market and they have plenty of feed, plus overall capacity to China is limited. Still shocked there isn't the demand.

FWIW, 2 weeks ago I was made a last minute booking, ORD>KMG after a visa run, 2 or 3 days before departure one of the options was an MU flight, ORD>PVG>WUH>KMG for $294 USD one way.

Small sample size and everything. Also, last winter my wife flew ORD>PVG>KMG for like $350, on MU. There care be all the business traffic in the world, it is hard to compete and make money against those types of airfares.

DeltaXNA · Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:17 am

Miamiairport wrote:
PAP is a bit surprising as that route supposedly was a big money maker but that was probably pre Spirit. With the axing of FLL/PAP does AA have any P2P routes left except for RDU/LHR?

RDU-LHR is not really a P2P route. LHR is considered a hub for AA because of BA.

chepos · Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:45 am

Any news if DFW KEF is coming back next summer?

chepos · Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:48 am

EvanWSFO wrote:
Skyblue39 wrote:
Fantastic to (finally) see Dallas to Dublin !!!

This will likely end (for now) talk of EI entering DFW. I'm not convinced DUB or MUC will be a success from DFW. Should be interesting.

DUB will work, DUB is tourist meca for Americans come summer (kinda like FCO). If they can manage to make AMS work, DUB will be a piece of cake.

ORDfan · Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:48 am

kngkyle wrote:
United commented to the Chicago Tribune on the ORD-Asia market following the AA announcement.

American’s biggest competitor at O’Hare, United Airlines, said its service between Chicago and Asia continues to meet expectations.

“We are pleased with the performance of our flights between Chicago and Asia and remain firmly committed to providing our customers nonstop, daily, year-round service between our Chicago hub and Asia, including Beijing, Shanghai, Hong Kong and Tokyo,” said Jonathan Guerin, a spokesman for Chicago-based United.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ ... story.html

You beat me to it! Just read this as well...funny enough, just before getting home I drove by the United Airlines billboard on I-90: "Kon'nichiwa, Tokyo... offering daily non-stops to Tokyo." I believe that billboard has been there for a few years now.

As I noted in my earlier post, no doubt United feeling a little schadenfreude today...

mfe777 · Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:00 am

Midwest2K wrote:
LH moved DFW back to a 333 a few days ago:

Frankfurt – Dallas/Ft. Worth eff 31MAR19 A330-300 continues operating 1 daily, replacing previously filed A340-600

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-17aug18/

So much for the 346 at DFW next summer. But MUC and DUB will be nonstop!

Could that be because of the A340-600 damaged by fire in June? Maybe damage is worse than expected?

neomax · Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:16 am

Today is the day AA hands ORD to UA on a silver platter.

admanager · Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:29 am

Dominion301 wrote:
psa1011 wrote:
LAX-YYZ has been around forever right?

Probably close to 20 years. It was an early 738 route.

Looks like AC will be rejoicing at this announcement too.

Actually over 43 years at a minimum. Copied from Departedflights.com for 1975 OAG Toronto

AMERICAN AIRLINES
Aircraft Operated:
Boeing 707/707-320 FanJet, Boeing 727-100, Boeing 727-200, McDonnell Douglas DC-10
Destinations Served:
Chicago O'Hare, Los Angeles, New York LaGuardia

slcdeltarumd11 · Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:31 am

AA holds onto JFK-CDG.

I would hope that goes 2x 757 with 767s looking to be on their way to PHL. Frequency is important, 777 seems like alot of seats at one time to me.

MSPNWA · Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:39 am

Bobloblaw wrote:
AA isnt moving out of ORD...They added ATH and have added numerous domestic markets. Hyperbole and lack of perspective are rampant on this site.

Did you not see all the new international markets AA is adding??? And youre faulting a company for exploiting its strengths.

The only hyperbole here is putting hyperbolic words in people's mouths. Do you think cutting off three fingers and growing one back is a net gain? In the winter AA will have very little long-haul out of ORD. That would have been unbelievable just a few years ago. It wasn't working, and the fact that it wasn't is sad. Something at AA is wrong if UA can dominate long-haul traffic out of ORD like this. Also, I just said I don't fault the company for doing it. Please, read the post before you reply.

LupineChemist · Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:44 am

ORDfan wrote:
kngkyle wrote:
United commented to the Chicago Tribune on the ORD-Asia market following the AA announcement.

American’s biggest competitor at O’Hare, United Airlines, said its service between Chicago and Asia continues to meet expectations.

“We are pleased with the performance of our flights between Chicago and Asia and remain firmly committed to providing our customers nonstop, daily, year-round service between our Chicago hub and Asia, including Beijing, Shanghai, Hong Kong and Tokyo,” said Jonathan Guerin, a spokesman for Chicago-based United.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ ... story.html

You beat me to it! Just read this as well...funny enough, just before getting home I drove by the United Airlines billboard on I-90: "Kon'nichiwa, Tokyo... offering daily non-stops to Tokyo." I believe that billboard has been there for a few years now.

As I noted in my earlier post, no doubt United feeling a little schadenfreude today...

Curious that UA would use a photo of Madrid, a Oneworld stronghold and a city they don't fly to from ORD, about daily nonstops from Chicago.

MAH4546 · Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:10 am

Miamiairport wrote:
PAP is a bit surprising as that route supposedly was a big money maker but that was probably pre Spirit. With the axing of FLL/PAP does AA have any P2P routes left except for RDU/LHR?

Pre-Spirit? They have coexisted on the route for a decade. Definitely surprising.

LAX772LR · Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:14 am

winGl3t wrote:
Bold move to fly seasonal to DBV!

Either that, or Croatia's paying through the a$$ for it.

C010T3 wrote:
It is just incredible how American struggles at FRA.

At least they still serve it though.

Look at DL's historic struggles in HKG-- and now total lack of service.

AAIRLINERS · Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:59 am

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
AA holds onto JFK-CDG.

I would hope that goes 2x 757 with 767s looking to be on their way to PHL. Frequency is important, 777 seems like alot of seats at one time to me.

Both CDG and MAD Will be a single 772 a day. I definitely agree about the overage of seats though. Then again MXP and BCN do it. Should it not work there’s not a lot of routes that would sustain 772 usage in the system.
Definitely not a good sub for the 767 in thinner markets. The A332 certainly but I think that ship has sailed.
I think after 2019 there will be continued reduction at JFK limiting INT to LHR, GRU, and hopefully EZE. Where to go with the unused frames will be interesting. Perhaps replacing the A333 from PHL and CLT to LHR...that might make more sense IMO.

GSP psgr · Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:13 am

AAIRLINERS wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
AA holds onto JFK-CDG.

I would hope that goes 2x 757 with 767s looking to be on their way to PHL. Frequency is important, 777 seems like alot of seats at one time to me.

Both CDG and MAD Will be a single 772 a day. I definitely agree about the overage of seats though. Then again MXP and BCN do it. Should it not work there’s not a lot of routes that would sustain 772 usage in the system.
Definitely not a good sub for the 767 in thinner markets. The A332 certainly but I think that ship has sailed.
I think after 2019 there will be continued reduction at JFK limiting INT to LHR, GRU, and hopefully EZE. Where to go with the unused frames will be interesting. Perhaps replacing the A333 from PHL and CLT to LHR...that might make more sense IMO.

AA wants to get the mechanically unreliable 757/767 fleet out of the JFK market to simplify maintenance and consolidate at PHL, where the terrible hard product hurts them less.

Rookie87 · Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:14 am

Miamiairport wrote:
PAP is a bit surprising as that route supposedly was a big money maker but that was probably pre Spirit. With the axing of FLL/PAP does AA have any P2P routes left except for RDU/LHR?

It is very surprising BUT Haiti has been going through a lot of unrest recently more than usual with the new government in place.

barney captain · Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:38 am

I find PHX-LHR the most impressive.

Eirules · Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:51 am

I assume the PHX route will be a W pattern and the 772 turned around at LHR from JFK or LAX etc?

neomax · Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:39 am

barney captain wrote:
I find PHX-LHR the most impressive.

Agreed. PHX-NRT may no longer be such a ridiculous concept after all now that they've finally broken the invisible wall.

csweet · Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:37 pm

Interesting listen, podcast with AA VP of network planning discussing future int'l routes. Note at the 9 minute mark he illuminates that big international routes from both CLT and DFW are coming. https://soundcloud.com/american-airlines-internal-news

csweet · Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:38 pm

Interesting listen, podcast with AA VP of network planning discussing future int'l routes. Note at the 9 minute mark he illuminates that big international routes from both CLT and DFW are coming. https://soundcloud.com/american-airlines-internal-news

whywhyzee · Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:14 pm

I'm pretty surprised they cancelled LAX-YYZ, even with the competition. AC runs 6x dailies with 2 widebodies and it's a super premium route, it actually has AC's international service in J class, LAX and SFO are the only destinations in the states to get that. AA would even use the A321T during TIFF. With them losing the WS codeshare, that is likely a huge blow, no longer having a partner, and having to go up against AC and Tina lesser extent, WS on the route. Still feels like it would be worth having some presence on it. I can definately see DL opening it now that they have a JV with WS.

enilria · Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:25 pm

Yossarian22 wrote:
enilria wrote:
jasoncrh wrote:
way too much capacity. low fares. it's not that hard.

It's a business market and they have plenty of feed, plus overall capacity to China is limited. Still shocked there isn't the demand.

FWIW, 2 weeks ago I was made a last minute booking, ORD>KMG after a visa run, 2 or 3 days before departure one of the options was an MU flight, ORD>PVG>WUH>KMG for $294 USD one way.

Small sample size and everything. Also, last winter my wife flew ORD>PVG>KMG for like $350, on MU. There care be all the business traffic in the world, it is hard to compete and make money against those types of airfares.

So, either the addition of the Chinese carriers into the secondary and tertiary markets with non-stop has undermined the pricing or demand has just vanished. It could be either I guess. China can very easily control visa issuance. The trade issues would probably increase business traffic as companies scramble.

HPRamper · Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:27 pm

cathay747 wrote:
777PHX wrote:
So where's everyone at that was absolutely sure PHX was going to become the next STL or CVG?

Yeah, exactly...crickets. I hope that this news will once-and-for-all stop all that constant, unending pontificating!

They've moved on to now saying JFK will be the next STL or CVG. Which is also ridiculous.

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