Ethiopian cancels Barcelona after less than two months of operations

SCQ83 · Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:36 am

Ethiopian started BCN (via MAD) on July 2 this year.

https://www.eldiario.es/economia/Ethiop ... 71798.html

It seems that the last flight for sale is on August 15. Any date after, all flights to BCN are routed via FRA (with Lufthansa). ADD-MAD is for sale in W18 and S19.

Would BCN be routed via somewhere else or just chopped entirely? Would LIS be added to MAD? IMO Lisbon would make quite a lot of sense, given the VFR and business links between Portugal links and Angola, Mozambique and South Africa. Also eventually ET could sell 5th freedom MAD-LIS flights.

TWA772LR · Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:37 am

I dont think ADD-BCN/MAD-IAH would be a terrible idea.

JayBCNLON · Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:29 am

No word on why ET are pulling the plug so quickly?

hynithuchi · Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:52 am

Really strange, I've realised that in the past, ET tend to change their schedules and routes very easily, but after 2 months only ? Will we to expect the same at GVA which opened at the same time as BCN ?

SCQ83 · Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:13 am

TWA772LR wrote:
I dont think ADD-BCN/MAD-IAH would be a terrible idea.

I think it would be. MAD-IAH would only work with massive UA feed on the IAH... and even so.

winGl3t · Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:30 am

hynithuchi wrote:
Will we to expect the same at GVA which opened at the same time as BCN ?

I don't think so. GVA has more demand to Africa and it is higher yielding than BCN due to traffic such as UN, Consulates, and othe International Organizations

pmartin · Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:35 am

The route seems to be doing rather well. Close to 80% load factor in July, split quite evenly between MXP and GVA overall, but with GVA taking the majority (close to 60%) of the business class seats. In a recent interview, ET is talking about increasing frequency to 4x, possibly 5x weekly fairly soon.

pmartin · Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:35 am

The route seems to be doing rather well. Close to 80% load factor in July, split quite evenly between MXP and GVA overall, but with GVA taking the majority (close to 60%) of the business class seats. In a recent interview, ET is talking about increasing frequency to 4x, possibly 5x weekly fairly soon.

PlymSpotter · Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:54 am

Operating via MAD can't have helped things. RAM, Air Algiers and Turkish all offer competing one stop connections to ADD and other destinations across Africa.

thomasphoto60 · Mon Aug 06, 2018 12:14 pm

[threeid][/threeid]

TWA772LR wrote:
I dont think ADD-BCN/MAD-IAH would be a terrible idea.

Ehh...I would prefer the rumored ADD-ACC-IAH route, that way IAH gets back into the ‘Six Continent Club’.

hynithuchi · Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:40 pm

PlymSpotter wrote:
Operating via MAD can't have helped things. RAM, Air Algiers and Turkish all offer competing one stop connections to ADD and other destinations across Africa.

The same could be said about GVA which has a lot of competition from North African and ME carriers and GVA are also one-stop ( via MXP ). I would rather see the BCN cancellation as a temporary suspension while they reshuffle thier network once again unless loads were really dreadful.
As for GVA frequency increase, wouldn't it make more sense to operate 3 non stop flights instead of 4-5 via MXP ?

berari · Tue Aug 07, 2018 5:56 am

TWA772LR wrote:
I dont think ADD-BCN/MAD-IAH would be a terrible idea.

ET would do better routing an IAH flight via West Africa. Why dabble on a transatlantic route with a stopover like MAD or BCN that it can't make work as a terminator route in the first place?

hynithuchi wrote:
PlymSpotter wrote:
Operating via MAD can't have helped things. RAM, Air Algiers and Turkish all offer competing one stop connections to ADD and other destinations across Africa.

The same could be said about GVA which has a lot of competition from North African and ME carriers and GVA are also one-stop ( via MXP ). I would rather see the BCN cancellation as a temporary suspension while they reshuffle thier network once again unless loads were really dreadful.
As for GVA frequency increase, wouldn't it make more sense to operate 3 non stop flights instead of 4-5 via MXP ?

While I like that they were serving BCN, I did not know what the rationale was. They have had codeshares to it via FRA for a few years with LH, so they have had the taste/stats to support opening the route. Has demand changed out of BCN?

I don't know whether ET will be able to sustain a B787 flight to MAD, in last couple of years we have seen most nonstops operated with the B738 with a stopover at CAI or MLA. Maybe the first two Max-8s will be dedicated to MAD and do it nonstop both ways. Or they will revert back to operating MAD via FCO as they have in the last few years.

As for GVA still a new route, but if it overperforms, we may see ET going nonstop to GVA and continue on to MXP or another secondary destination.

SCQ83 · Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:29 am

It didn't last long. I reckon loads must be catastrophic to cancel it only after 2 months in peak summer season in Europe.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... gust-2018/

Ethiopian Airlines next week is ending service to Barcelona, just 2 months after service launch. Last flight on Addis Ababa – Madrid – Barcelona routing is scheduled on 14AUG18, ADD departure.

ET712 ADD2245 – 0455+1MAD0545+1 – 0710+1BCN 788 x135
ET713 BCN1950 – 2125MAD2225 – 0615+1ADD 788 x246

From 15AUG18, Ethiopian Airlines will continue to serve Madrid 4 times a week. Boeing 787-9 is scheduled to operate on selected dates in September 2018.

LGAviation · Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:55 am

SCQ83 wrote:
Ethiopian started BCN (via MAD) on July 2 this year.

https://www.eldiario.es/economia/Ethiop ... 71798.html

It seems that the last flight for sale is on August 15. Any date after, all flights to BCN are routed via FRA (with Lufthansa). ADD-MAD is for sale in W18 and S19.

Would BCN be routed via somewhere else or just chopped entirely? Would LIS be added to MAD? IMO Lisbon would make quite a lot of sense, given the VFR and business links between Portugal links and Angola, Mozambique and South Africa. Also eventually ET could sell 5th freedom MAD-LIS flights.

While in general Lisbon to Lusophone Africa is quite a sizeable market which works definitely in both ways, I don't think ET is located in the right position to make it work. Most of Portugal's former colonies are located on the Atlantic coast for obvious reasons and I think only the lowest yielding passengers will take the de-tour via ADD to places like Cabo-Verde, Bissau or Sao Tome. Admittedly, LAD and MPM are the biggest fish to fry among the African markets, but Luanda is well served by TAP and sometimes double-daily TAAG at constantly low prices and I don't think that Maputo alone which also sees TAP would warrant a flight. If anything such a flight might make sense for connections to the Indian or Southeast Asian markets that ET flies to but they aren't set up to compete in that market.

SCQ83 · Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:54 pm

hynithuchi wrote:
PlymSpotter wrote:
Operating via MAD can't have helped things. RAM, Air Algiers and Turkish all offer competing one stop connections to ADD and other destinations across Africa.

The same could be said about GVA which has a lot of competition from North African and ME carriers and GVA are also one-stop ( via MXP ). I would rather see the BCN cancellation as a temporary suspension while they reshuffle thier network once again unless loads were really dreadful.
As for GVA frequency increase, wouldn't it make more sense to operate 3 non stop flights instead of 4-5 via MXP ?

Likely the issue here is that BCN is a holiday market. Those long-haul flights to the Americas, Asia or the ME work mainly due to inbound tourism. And I suspect that Ethiopian (except in African countries where there are strong VFR links) works mainly with European outbound tourism.

What is the inbound tourism from Africa to Barcelona? Minimal. On the other hand, Madrid is a much wealthier local market and a major business destination, so ADD can sustain the route.

gadFly · Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:38 pm

winGl3t wrote:
hynithuchi wrote:
Will we to expect the same at GVA which opened at the same time as BCN ?

I don't think so. GVA has more demand to Africa and it is higher yielding than BCN due to traffic such as UN, Consulates, and othe International Organizations

There is a massive poster campaign right now all over the area to promote the flights to Addis. Two sets of posters appearing all over the area, mosty near bus stops and in the more weel-to-do areas

hynithuchi · Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:14 pm

gadFly wrote:
winGl3t wrote:
hynithuchi wrote:
Will we to expect the same at GVA which opened at the same time as BCN ?

I don't think so. GVA has more demand to Africa and it is higher yielding than BCN due to traffic such as UN, Consulates, and othe International Organizations

There is a massive poster campaign right now all over the area to promote the flights to Addis. Two sets of posters appearing all over the area, mosty near bus stops and in the more weel-to-do areas

I know, I see this campaign too, it is part of the usual support provided by GVA airport authorities when a new airline launches a l/h service to GVA. Still, I don't think it would stop a carrier from cancelling a new operation if results are not within the projected target. However, according to some posts in this thread, GVA results seem to be satisfactory.

c933103 · Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:16 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
Any date after, all flights to BCN are routed via FRA (with Lufthansa).

If I understand correctly, that means passengers are rebooked onto LH connecting flights?

iadadd · Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:23 pm

ET's European destinations are primarily based off of Outbound European travel to Africa. However, BCN is primarily an inbound tourism destination, and I doubt there's much demand to BCN from Africa. Thus, it didn't work for ET.

2travel2know2 · Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:25 pm

thomasphoto60 wrote:
[threeid][/threeid]
TWA772LR wrote:
I dont think ADD-BCN/MAD-IAH would be a terrible idea.

Ehh...I would prefer the rumored ADD-ACC-IAH route, that way IAH gets back into the ‘Six Continent Club’.

IAH would get into the 6 continent club even if Africa ADD flight is routed via Europe.
Unless, it has to be a non-stop flight.
Bear in mind that ADD to IAH via some airport in West Africa might be 10% longer than a route via Iberian Peninsula / Morocco.
Both IAH and ADD are Star Alliance hubs, so far IAH doesn't have UA flying IAH-MAD or IAH-BCN.
IMHO, with some good marketing on the IAH and ADD hubs sides that flight, either via MAD or BCN could work. If the days and season of operation are chosen wisely, ET could be the airline of choice of those texans heading for cruises out of Barcelona.
However, if linking Star Alliance is the goal, then ADD-LIS-IAH is the way to go, but when it comes to LIS African O/D, ADD may only be attractive mostly for the LIS-ADD-JNB/MPM traffic.

SCQ83 · Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:30 pm

iadadd wrote:
ET's European destinations are primarily based off of Outbound European travel to Africa. However, BCN is primarily an inbound tourism destination, and I doubt there's much demand to BCN from Africa. Thus, it didn't work for ET.

Ironically La Vanguardia (the main newspaper in Barcelona) blames Madrid (!) for the failure. They must mention Madrid 20 times in this article. Maybe the failure is just the lack of market.

https://www.lavanguardia.com/economia/2 ... -prat.html

SCQ83 · Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:37 pm

berari wrote:
While I like that they were serving BCN, I did not know what the rationale was. They have had codeshares to it via FRA for a few years with LH, so they have had the taste/stats to support opening the route. Has demand changed out of BCN?

I don't know whether ET will be able to sustain a B787 flight to MAD, in last couple of years we have seen most nonstops operated with the B738 with a stopover at CAI or MLA. Maybe the first two Max-8s will be dedicated to MAD and do it nonstop both ways. Or they will revert back to operating MAD via FCO as they have in the last few years.

Maybe the rationale with BCN was to develop the market and then make it non-stop. Again, LIS could easily be linked to MAD creating a new tag that Ethiopian seems to love so much.

I wouldn't be surprised also that then the other flight could get a flight to the Americas. Local authorities in BCN are obsessed to promote the airport for 5th freedom flights (like the failed BCN-MEX with Aeromexico and then Emirates) so maybe they could think to link it to a Latin American destination. A wild idea, for instance, ADD-BCN-PTY which is a Star Alliance hub, and there is no carrier flying BCN-PTY.

iadadd · Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:45 pm

Now, what would be interesting to see is a ADD-BCN-MEX flight. That would be a nice tri-continental Star Alliance connection

2travel2know2 · Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:46 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised also that then the other flight could get a flight to the Americas. Local authorities in BCN are obsessed to promote the airport for 5th freedom flights (like the failed BCN-MEX with Aeromexico and then Emirates) so maybe they could think to link it to a Latin American destination. A wild idea, for instance, ADD-BCN-PTY which is a Star Alliance hub, and there is no carrier flying BCN-PTY.

PTY authorities (perhaps more than CM itself) want BCN-PTY it's their 2nd on their European non-stop wish-list (1st is LON, no matter which airport now, 3rd most likely FCO).
ET could easily get PTY-BCN fill but still will hace serious challenges filling BCN-ADD and going after any sizable PTY-ADD traffic.

berari · Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:59 pm

2travel2know2 wrote:
thomasphoto60 wrote:
[threeid][/threeid]
TWA772LR wrote:
I dont think ADD-BCN/MAD-IAH would be a terrible idea.

Ehh...I would prefer the rumored ADD-ACC-IAH route, that way IAH gets back into the ‘Six Continent Club’.
IAH would get into the 6 continent club even if Africa ADD flight is routed via Europe.
Unless, it has to be a non-stop flight.
Bear in mind that ADD to IAH via some airport in West Africa might be 10% longer than a route via Iberian Peninsula / Morocco.
Both IAH and ADD are Star Alliance hubs, so far IAH doesn't have UA flying IAH-MAD or IAH-BCN.
IMHO, with some good marketing on the IAH and ADD hubs sides that flight, either via MAD or BCN could work. If the days and season of operation are chosen wisely, ET could be the airline of choice of those texans heading for cruises out of Barcelona.
However, if linking Star Alliance is the goal, then ADD-LIS-IAH is the way to go, but when it comes to LIS African O/D, ADD may only be attractive mostly for the LIS-ADD-JNB/MPM traffic.

I will never understand the fascination of new service to IAH on this forum. Wherever ET talks up a new route, someone comes up with the idea of extending it to IAH. One day ...

SCQ83 wrote:
berari wrote:
While I like that they were serving BCN, I did not know what the rationale was. They have had codeshares to it via FRA for a few years with LH, so they have had the taste/stats to support opening the route. Has demand changed out of BCN?

I don't know whether ET will be able to sustain a B787 flight to MAD, in last couple of years we have seen most nonstops operated with the B738 with a stopover at CAI or MLA. Maybe the first two Max-8s will be dedicated to MAD and do it nonstop both ways. Or they will revert back to operating MAD via FCO as they have in the last few years.

Maybe the rationale with BCN was to develop the market and then make it non-stop. Again, LIS could easily be linked to MAD creating a new tag that Ethiopian seems to love so much.

I wouldn't be surprised also that then the other flight could get a flight to the Americas. Local authorities in BCN are obsessed to promote the airport for 5th freedom flights (like the failed BCN-MEX with Aeromexico and then Emirates) so maybe they could think to link it to a Latin American destination. A wild idea, for instance, ADD-BCN-PTY which is a Star Alliance hub, and there is no carrier flying BCN-PTY.

Ethiopian, Ethiopia and subsaharan African cannot sustain a nonstop to BCN. ET's expansion strategy, which has worked very well for it, is based on tag-ons to build new markets and eventually (hopefully) grow them into dedicated nonstop destinations. Given that many of its aircraft sit idle for the most part of the day, they have the ability to stretch their existing dedicated services to explore new markets.

Same fascination as IAH with PTY on this forum. What link do you know of between Africa and PTY that Ethiopian can make work? If anything BCN could have worked better than a longer haul PTY flight. If Star Alliance Hubs is the only reasoning, maybe the lines of Austrian and Brussels should extend their BCN services to PTY and IAH? Why ET?

thomasphoto60 · Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:24 pm

berari wrote:
2travel2know2 wrote:
thomasphoto60 wrote:
[threeid][/threeid]
Ehh...I would prefer the rumored ADD-ACC-IAH route, that way IAH gets back into the ‘Six Continent Club’.
IAH would get into the 6 continent club even if Africa ADD flight is routed via Europe.
Unless, it has to be a non-stop flight.
Bear in mind that ADD to IAH via some airport in West Africa might be 10% longer than a route via Iberian Peninsula / Morocco.
Both IAH and ADD are Star Alliance hubs, so far IAH doesn't have UA flying IAH-MAD or IAH-BCN.
IMHO, with some good marketing on the IAH and ADD hubs sides that flight, either via MAD or BCN could work. If the days and season of operation are chosen wisely, ET could be the airline of choice of those texans heading for cruises out of Barcelona.
However, if linking Star Alliance is the goal, then ADD-LIS-IAH is the way to go, but when it comes to LIS African O/D, ADD may only be attractive mostly for the LIS-ADD-JNB/MPM traffic.

I will never understand the fascination of new service to IAH on this forum. Wherever ET talks up a new route, someone comes up with the idea of extending it to IAH. One day....

I know.......those dam hicks in Houston thinking that they are actually going to see ET in their li’l rinky dink airport, I mean where do they get these crazy ideas?......Oh wait just a tick......

https://newsroom.aviator.aero/ethiopian ... and-texas/

SCQ83 · Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:26 pm

Regarding Houston, I don't think MAD-IAH or BCN-IAH could work. For United, Spain is a secondary market; they have an extremely limited presence compared to AA or DL.

The only Texas-Spain flight is DFW-MAD on AA (TATL JV) which has two massive Oneworld hubs in each end, are part of the same JV and are the ultra-dominant carriers in each local market (AA in DFW and IB in MAD). So very different story. Also, other than the AA (again dominant Oneworld-IB) hubs (DFW, PHL, CLT), all other destinations to the US from Spain (NYC, Miami, LAX, SFO, BOS, DC, Chicago) are also places that work in both directions; not only for American tourists that want to visit Spain but also for Spanish tourists that want to visit the US. Not the case for Houston.

TWA772LR · Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:13 pm

berari wrote:
2travel2know2 wrote:
thomasphoto60 wrote:
[threeid][/threeid]
Ehh...I would prefer the rumored ADD-ACC-IAH route, that way IAH gets back into the ‘Six Continent Club’.
IAH would get into the 6 continent club even if Africa ADD flight is routed via Europe.
Unless, it has to be a non-stop flight.
Bear in mind that ADD to IAH via some airport in West Africa might be 10% longer than a route via Iberian Peninsula / Morocco.
Both IAH and ADD are Star Alliance hubs, so far IAH doesn't have UA flying IAH-MAD or IAH-BCN.
IMHO, with some good marketing on the IAH and ADD hubs sides that flight, either via MAD or BCN could work. If the days and season of operation are chosen wisely, ET could be the airline of choice of those texans heading for cruises out of Barcelona.
However, if linking Star Alliance is the goal, then ADD-LIS-IAH is the way to go, but when it comes to LIS African O/D, ADD may only be attractive mostly for the LIS-ADD-JNB/MPM traffic.

I will never understand the fascination of new service to IAH on this forum. Wherever ET talks up a new route, someone comes up with the idea of extending it to IAH. One day ...

SCQ83 wrote:
berari wrote:
While I like that they were serving BCN, I did not know what the rationale was. They have had codeshares to it via FRA for a few years with LH, so they have had the taste/stats to support opening the route. Has demand changed out of BCN?

I don't know whether ET will be able to sustain a B787 flight to MAD, in last couple of years we have seen most nonstops operated with the B738 with a stopover at CAI or MLA. Maybe the first two Max-8s will be dedicated to MAD and do it nonstop both ways. Or they will revert back to operating MAD via FCO as they have in the last few years.

Maybe the rationale with BCN was to develop the market and then make it non-stop. Again, LIS could easily be linked to MAD creating a new tag that Ethiopian seems to love so much.

I wouldn't be surprised also that then the other flight could get a flight to the Americas. Local authorities in BCN are obsessed to promote the airport for 5th freedom flights (like the failed BCN-MEX with Aeromexico and then Emirates) so maybe they could think to link it to a Latin American destination. A wild idea, for instance, ADD-BCN-PTY which is a Star Alliance hub, and there is no carrier flying BCN-PTY.

Ethiopian, Ethiopia and subsaharan African cannot sustain a nonstop to BCN. ET's expansion strategy, which has worked very well for it, is based on tag-ons to build new markets and eventually (hopefully) grow them into dedicated nonstop destinations. Given that many of its aircraft sit idle for the most part of the day, they have the ability to stretch their existing dedicated services to explore new markets.

Same fascination as IAH with PTY on this forum. What link do you know of between Africa and PTY that Ethiopian can make work? If anything BCN could have worked better than a longer haul PTY flight. If Star Alliance Hubs is the only reasoning, maybe the lines of Austrian and Brussels should extend their BCN services to PTY and IAH? Why ET?

Theyre thrown out there because ET is doing great with the intermediate stops to the Americas, and they have said a few months ago that they are interested in serving Houston via West Africa. As for PTY, if a big player in Africa can connect to a big player in Latin America via a stop that the authorities in Panama want (read: willing to subsidize) then whats not to like?

berari · Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:16 pm

thomasphoto60 wrote:
berari wrote:
2travel2know2 wrote:
IAH would get into the 6 continent club even if Africa ADD flight is routed via Europe.
Unless, it has to be a non-stop flight.
Bear in mind that ADD to IAH via some airport in West Africa might be 10% longer than a route via Iberian Peninsula / Morocco.
Both IAH and ADD are Star Alliance hubs, so far IAH doesn't have UA flying IAH-MAD or IAH-BCN.
IMHO, with some good marketing on the IAH and ADD hubs sides that flight, either via MAD or BCN could work. If the days and season of operation are chosen wisely, ET could be the airline of choice of those texans heading for cruises out of Barcelona.
However, if linking Star Alliance is the goal, then ADD-LIS-IAH is the way to go, but when it comes to LIS African O/D, ADD may only be attractive mostly for the LIS-ADD-JNB/MPM traffic.

I will never understand the fascination of new service to IAH on this forum. Wherever ET talks up a new route, someone comes up with the idea of extending it to IAH. One day....

I know.......those dam hicks in Houston thinking that they are actually going to see ET in their li’l rinky dink airport, I mean where do they get these crazy ideas?......Oh wait just a tick......

https://newsroom.aviator.aero/ethiopian ... and-texas/

ET will go to IAH, and has said it will, and the "hicks" you mention will have their day and we will all be happy. The fascination is around how it gets there, with every possibility from BCN, MAD, LIS, DUB and MAN among others talked about, yet not one makes sense for ET in terms of the traffic feed it needs to make IAH work. For IAH to work, ET needs West African traffic, especially feed from oil-rich countries that will benefit when the economics make sense. It has required a similar feed to make NYC work, and IAH will need it even more. Don't even get me started about PTY.

aemoreira1981 · Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:27 am

berari wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
I dont think ADD-BCN/MAD-IAH would be a terrible idea.

ET would do better routing an IAH flight via West Africa. Why dabble on a transatlantic route with a stopover like MAD or BCN that it can't make work as a terminator route in the first place?

hynithuchi wrote:
PlymSpotter wrote:
Operating via MAD can't have helped things. RAM, Air Algiers and Turkish all offer competing one stop connections to ADD and other destinations across Africa.

The same could be said about GVA which has a lot of competition from North African and ME carriers and GVA are also one-stop ( via MXP ). I would rather see the BCN cancellation as a temporary suspension while they reshuffle thier network once again unless loads were really dreadful.
As for GVA frequency increase, wouldn't it make more sense to operate 3 non stop flights instead of 4-5 via MXP ?

While I like that they were serving BCN, I did not know what the rationale was. They have had codeshares to it via FRA for a few years with LH, so they have had the taste/stats to support opening the route. Has demand changed out of BCN?

I don't know whether ET will be able to sustain a B787 flight to MAD, in last couple of years we have seen most nonstops operated with the B738 with a stopover at CAI or MLA. Maybe the first two Max-8s will be dedicated to MAD and do it nonstop both ways. Or they will revert back to operating MAD via FCO as they have in the last few years.

As for GVA still a new route, but if it overperforms, we may see ET going nonstop to GVA and continue on to MXP or another secondary destination.

I have to wonder if BCN is just low-yield. At least via LFW or ABJ for IAH, there is a one-stop connection that can assist the oil industry in West Africa, basically supplanting the discontinued IAH-LOS service, and that would fill out the J cabin. Via either point, one could even have some J O&D...better in ABJ, although LFW is the base for KP (flown by ET crews).

ETinCaribe · Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:27 am

I guess it was low-yield after all (>50% of capacity at El Prat is LCC) and the conference crowd is not enough for ET, I presume. Before we know it, they may be back there, if conditions change.

Unrelated: Today's ET501 77W IAD-ADD was diverted to BCN - ~5hrs delay in total... Now on its way to ADD.

SCQ83 · Thu Aug 09, 2018 3:16 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
I have to wonder if BCN is just low-yield. At least via LFW or ABJ for IAH, there is a one-stop connection that can assist the oil industry in West Africa, basically supplanting the discontinued IAH-LOS service, and that would fill out the J cabin. Via either point, one could even have some J O&D...better in ABJ, although LFW is the base for KP (flown by ET crews).

Of course it is. For instance, Aeromexico cancelled MEX-BCN in the past due to low-yields. On the other hand, MAD-MEX is up to 5 daily now (IB 3x, AM 2x). The money is in Madrid, not in Barcelona.

Also a lot of long-haul and connecting traffic at BCN is overrepresented due to cruises that use Barcelona as start/end point. So a lot of passengers from the US fly in/out BCN just for cruises. Like in VCE, if you are flying from BCN to an European hub (Air France, KLM, Lufthansa...) you might think you have ended up in a New York-South Florida flight. Loads of retired Americans/Canadians going home from Mediterranean cruises.

Kadish · Thu Aug 09, 2018 3:58 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
iadadd wrote:
ET's European destinations are primarily based off of Outbound European travel to Africa. However, BCN is primarily an inbound tourism destination, and I doubt there's much demand to BCN from Africa. Thus, it didn't work for ET.

Ironically La Vanguardia (the main newspaper in Barcelona) blames Madrid (!) for the failure. They must mention Madrid 20 times in this article. Maybe the failure is just the lack of market.

https://www.lavanguardia.com/economia/2 ... -prat.html

Ive read the article and it deos mentíon Madrid a lot in the article but it does not blame Madrid, politics...at all, just the business model the airline is using.

On the other hand politics, newspapers, BCN airport and its rulers use to play the victim role which si disgusting, but as I said not this time.

berari · Thu Aug 09, 2018 5:21 pm

Kadish wrote:
Ive read the article and it deos mentíon Madrid a lot in the article but it does not blame Madrid, politics...at all, just the business model the airline is using.

On the other hand politics, newspapers, BCN airport and its rulers use to play the victim role which si disgusting, but as I said not this time.

Correct. It also references the initial plans of ET to do ADD-BCN-MAD but reverted to ADD-MAD-BCN which constitutes backtracking, saying that you board at BCN, go to MAD and fly back over BCN. It also mentioned that the flights were originally planned to fly through October (inidcating that it was seasonal perahps, but in my opinion was related to the summer schedule.)

ET may be able to make this work, perhaps as a tag along to FCO, similar to many new services have come online for the airline. The success of MAD as a dedicated service is still to be determined, especially on the B788, but availability in lower fare buckets seems pretty low in the coming weeks.

evanb · Thu Aug 09, 2018 5:39 pm

So everyone seems to be assuming that BCN performed particularly badly. Is it possibly a function that too much of the traffic was coming from MAD and thus it made the tag-on to BCN superfluous. It operated twice with an B77LK and B789 this week instead of the B788 which indicates that the loads are strong. That makes me thing that the loads are strong to MAD.

SCQ83 · Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:49 pm

evanb wrote:
So everyone seems to be assuming that BCN performed particularly badly. Is it possibly a function that too much of the traffic was coming from MAD and thus it made the tag-on to BCN superfluous. It operated twice with an B77LK and B789 this week instead of the B788 which indicates that the loads are strong. That makes me thing that the loads are strong to MAD.

Ummm cancelling the route with 2 weeks' notice at the very peak of summer season in Europe (specially in Barcelona which is particularly seasonal for an airport its size in Europe)?

evanb · Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:02 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
evanb wrote:
So everyone seems to be assuming that BCN performed particularly badly. Is it possibly a function that too much of the traffic was coming from MAD and thus it made the tag-on to BCN superfluous. It operated twice with an B77LK and B789 this week instead of the B788 which indicates that the loads are strong. That makes me thing that the loads are strong to MAD.

Ummm cancelling the route with 2 weeks' notice at the very peak of summer season in Europe (specially in Barcelona which is particularly seasonal for an airport its size in Europe)?

It's a fairly rational reason for cancelling a tag-on at 2 weeks notice at the very peak of summer season. What's the alternative hypothesis?

berari · Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:13 pm

evanb wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
evanb wrote:
So everyone seems to be assuming that BCN performed particularly badly. Is it possibly a function that too much of the traffic was coming from MAD and thus it made the tag-on to BCN superfluous. It operated twice with an B77LK and B789 this week instead of the B788 which indicates that the loads are strong. That makes me thing that the loads are strong to MAD.

Ummm cancelling the route with 2 weeks' notice at the very peak of summer season in Europe (specially in Barcelona which is particularly seasonal for an airport its size in Europe)?

It's a fairly rational reason for cancelling a tag-on at 2 weeks notice at the very peak of summer season. What's the alternative hypothesis?

Very rational indeed. I was also surprised to see the 789s and 77s scheduled to operate on this route, aircraft that are better utilized in higher demand well established markets.

ET still has the opportunity to extend one of the winter FCO flights to a new destination, be it BCN or elsewhere if all other European operations remain the same.

hynithuchi · Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:47 pm

berari wrote:
evanb wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:

Ummm cancelling the route with 2 weeks' notice at the very peak of summer season in Europe (specially in Barcelona which is particularly seasonal for an airport its size in Europe)?

It's a fairly rational reason for cancelling a tag-on at 2 weeks notice at the very peak of summer season. What's the alternative hypothesis?

Very rational indeed. I was also surprised to see the 789s and 77s scheduled to operate on this route, aircraft that are better utilized in higher demand well established markets.

ET still has the opportunity to extend one of the winter FCO flights to a new destination, be it BCN or elsewhere if all other European operations remain the same.

They won't remain the same as GVA will be linked with FCO ( instead of MXP ). But of course, changes may occur at 2 weeks notice, as we can see with BCN.

hynithuchi · Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:48 pm

berari wrote:
evanb wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:

Ummm cancelling the route with 2 weeks' notice at the very peak of summer season in Europe (specially in Barcelona which is particularly seasonal for an airport its size in Europe)?

It's a fairly rational reason for cancelling a tag-on at 2 weeks notice at the very peak of summer season. What's the alternative hypothesis?

Very rational indeed. I was also surprised to see the 789s and 77s scheduled to operate on this route, aircraft that are better utilized in higher demand well established markets.

ET still has the opportunity to extend one of the winter FCO flights to a new destination, be it BCN or elsewhere if all other European operations remain the same.

They won't remain the same as GVA will be linked with FCO ( instead of MXP ). But of course, changes may occur at 2 weeks notice, as we can see with BCN.

LXwing · Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:51 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
Would LIS be added to MAD? IMO Lisbon would make quite a lot of sense, given the VFR and business links between Portugal links and Angola, Mozambique and South Africa. Also eventually ET could sell 5th freedom MAD-LIS flights.

You've hit the nail on the head there.
ET will start flying to MAD via LIS from October 28 until March 29, 2019. The routing will be ADD-LIS-MAD-LIS-ADD operated 4x a week in B787. It starts as a seasonal service that may eventually be extended to year-round.
Source in portuguese only: http://www.turisver.com/ethiopian-airli ... e-outubro/
But I guess selling 5th freedom flights on the LIS-MAD sector is highly unlikely.

SCQ83 · Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:51 pm

evanb wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
Ummm cancelling the route with 2 weeks' notice at the very peak of summer season in Europe (specially in Barcelona which is particularly seasonal for an airport its size in Europe)?

It's a fairly rational reason for cancelling a tag-on at 2 weeks notice at the very peak of summer season. What's the alternative hypothesis?

Passengers with tickets from August 15 must be reaccommodated (probably via FRA with Ethiopian/Lufthansa). Finding free seats on the two ADD-FRA and FRA-BCN sectors is probably not easy on high season (mid/end August). And since ET target mainly European holiday makers to Africa, it is not like those flights from Spain with ET are last-minute sales. The only way is that sales are simply dreadful and there are very few PAX to accommodate.

Anyway, in the next few days, AENA should release their data for July, which is the first month where ET operated from BCN. Then someone might calculate how many seats they sold per flight from BCN.

SCQ83 · Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:59 pm

LXwing wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
Would LIS be added to MAD? IMO Lisbon would make quite a lot of sense, given the VFR and business links between Portugal links and Angola, Mozambique and South Africa. Also eventually ET could sell 5th freedom MAD-LIS flights.

You've hit the nail on the head there.
ET will start flying to MAD via LIS from October 28 until March 29, 2019. The routing will be ADD-LIS-MAD-LIS-ADD operated 4x a week in B787. It starts as a seasonal service that may eventually be extended to year-round.
Source in portuguese only: http://www.turisver.com/ethiopian-airli ... e-outubro/
But I guess selling 5th freedom flights on the LIS-MAD sector is highly unlikely.

So maybe BCN will be re-linked via MXP in winter season. But why cutting in before the end of summer season (when LIS starts)? The only reason is that sales are simply abysmal.

Not really surprised about LIS! Many people here underestimate the enormous links that Portugal have with sub-Saharan Africa (ET's playground), mainly with Angola, Mozambique and South Africa. Also LIS being a Star Alliance will not hurt either.

berari · Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:29 pm

LXwing wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
Would LIS be added to MAD? IMO Lisbon would make quite a lot of sense, given the VFR and business links between Portugal links and Angola, Mozambique and South Africa. Also eventually ET could sell 5th freedom MAD-LIS flights.

You've hit the nail on the head there.
ET will start flying to MAD via LIS from October 28 until March 29, 2019. The routing will be ADD-LIS-MAD-LIS-ADD operated 4x a week in B787. It starts as a seasonal service that may eventually be extended to year-round.
Source in portuguese only: http://www.turisver.com/ethiopian-airli ... e-outubro/
But I guess selling 5th freedom flights on the LIS-MAD sector is highly unlikely.

I find it odd that they would do ADD-LIS-MAD for one, which is what the article states, given the backtracking that'll be involved. Something else about the article states that the flight will arrive in LIS at 4:40PM, which doesn't jive with ET's current main bank that sees Europe-bound aircraft arriving early in the AM. Either way a good addition, they already codeshare with TP.

hynithuchi wrote:
berari wrote:
evanb wrote:

It's a fairly rational reason for cancelling a tag-on at 2 weeks notice at the very peak of summer season. What's the alternative hypothesis?

Very rational indeed. I was also surprised to see the 789s and 77s scheduled to operate on this route, aircraft that are better utilized in higher demand well established markets.

ET still has the opportunity to extend one of the winter FCO flights to a new destination, be it BCN or elsewhere if all other European operations remain the same.

They won't remain the same as GVA will be linked with FCO ( instead of MXP ). But of course, changes may occur at 2 weeks notice, as we can see with BCN.

According to schedules, GVA will be linked with VIE with ADD-VIE-GVA service on ET728. MXP will go back to ADD-FCO-MXP daily on ET702. BRU will get a mix of nonstop (continuing on to MAN) and service via VIE totalling to daily service. No other change to European ops as of today for W19.

It's an advantage some may say to be so nimble ...

evanb · Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:31 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
Not really surprised about LIS! Many people here underestimate the enormous links that Portugal have with sub-Saharan Africa (ET's playground), mainly with Angola, Mozambique and South Africa. Also LIS being a Star Alliance will not hurt either.

Agreed, huge links, but also, ET have a huge footprint in South Africa, both in terms of capacity and distribution. They also fly to Luanda five times per week, and have somehow managed to deal with the challenges of remitting revenue from Angola much better than most foreign carriers. They only just began services to Mozambique this year, so it's apt timing for the Lisbon link on the other end.

berari · Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:11 pm

evanb wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
Not really surprised about LIS! Many people here underestimate the enormous links that Portugal have with sub-Saharan Africa (ET's playground), mainly with Angola, Mozambique and South Africa. Also LIS being a Star Alliance will not hurt either.

Agreed, huge links, but also, ET have a huge footprint in South Africa, both in terms of capacity and distribution. They also fly to Luanda five times per week, and have somehow managed to deal with the challenges of remitting revenue from Angola much better than most foreign carriers. They only just began services to Mozambique this year, so it's apt timing for the Lisbon link on the other end.

Services to Maputo in Mozambique started in December 2010 with 3 flights per week and have been going daily for a few years already, sometimes using B788s but as of late only B738s. ET is starting a domestic airline within Mozambique this year however, which may support to a degree the opening of this new route to LIS.

As far as Angola is concerned, ET will remain there despite not being able to repatriate $$$s. At the worst of it they sent B73s to LAD, and then B763s. Now it's back to B78s and sometimes the B763s. Still a ways from the B77Ws they sent in regularly, but that's also related to the demand. Given Angola's unwillingness to give frequencies (only recently did ET only have one or two weekly rights,) they will stick it out even if it means sending empty B73s or routing them via a third stop.

SCQ83 · Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:19 am

berari wrote:
I find it odd that they would do ADD-LIS-MAD for one, which is what the article states, given the backtracking that'll be involved. Something else about the article states that the flight will arrive in LIS at 4:40PM, which doesn't jive with ET's current main bank that sees Europe-bound aircraft arriving early in the AM. Either way a good addition, they already codeshare with TP.

I didn't notice that. Definitely ET is looking for a recipe for disaster for Madrid. MAD-FCO is one thing; but backtracking to LIS?

Btw the article says 04:40 and 20:30, which in European standard means 4:40 AM arrival to Lisbon and 8:30 PM departure from Lisbon.

I reckon they want to prioritise Lisbon to feed more conveniently Angola/Mozambique and be competitive with the other non-stop or 1-stop options (TAP, TAAG, TK, EK and QR).

hynithuchi · Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:16 am

ADD-VIE-GVA seems a bit like a no brainer to me ! Flying time to GVA will be an additional 15 minutes accoring to the published schedules, but that seems rather optimistic to me. The previously planned changed to switch GVA via FCO instead of MXP was more logical, but operating via VIE makes geographically no sense. Since one of their main target ist to capture high yield ( international organisations ) market from GVA, I doubt this new routing will help.

Kadish · Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:12 am

SCQ83 wrote:
berari wrote:
I find it odd that they would do ADD-LIS-MAD for one, which is what the article states, given the backtracking that'll be involved. Something else about the article states that the flight will arrive in LIS at 4:40PM, which doesn't jive with ET's current main bank that sees Europe-bound aircraft arriving early in the AM. Either way a good addition, they already codeshare with TP.

I didn't notice that. Definitely ET is looking for a recipe for disaster for Madrid. MAD-FCO is one thing; but backtracking to LIS?

Btw the article says 04:40 and 20:30, which in European standard means 4:40 AM arrival to Lisbon and 8:30 PM departure from Lisbon.

I reckon they want to prioritise Lisbon to feed more conveniently Angola/Mozambique and be competitive with the other non-stop or 1-stop options (TAP, TAAG, TK, EK and QR).

Indeed a disaster will be. Backtraking,longer flight...will make people to choose Tk,Qr,Ek...among other things cause They r better known n have a better product.

runway23 · Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:04 am

hynithuchi wrote:
ADD-VIE-GVA seems a bit like a no brainer to me ! Flying time to GVA will be an additional 15 minutes accoring to the published schedules, but that seems rather optimistic to me. The previously planned changed to switch GVA via FCO instead of MXP was more logical, but operating via VIE makes geographically no sense. Since one of their main target ist to capture high yield ( international organisations ) market from GVA, I doubt this new routing will help.

FYI but ‘no brainer’ doesn’t quite seem to fit into the context of your post.

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