After the successful launch of PER-LHR the Italian government is lobbying for the next direct non-stop flight to Europe to be Rome. This will be interesting to watch, for the next non-stop flight to Europe, Paris remains the favorite and I expect this to be the next one however with the interest about Rome from the Italian government and the WA Tourism minister favoring Frankfurt as the next flight it now becomes a three horse race.

The Italian Ambassador to Australia did say an extensive marketing initiative would be needed not only marketed at Perth but the whole state of Western Australia. Personally I am in favor of this, I think where the marketing so far has been let down is that it has focused on Perth. The state offers tourists so many different things, some examples include the Busselton/Margaret River area taking in many wineries and a foodies heaven, the Southern Coast - such places as Albany, Denmark and Esperance and the many great beaches along the coast, visiting the Super Pit at Kalgoorlie, visiting the Coral coast whether it be the Kalbarri cliffs and gorges, dolphins at Monkey Mia or swimming with Whale Sharks and Manta Rays on Ningaloo Reef, experiencing Alboriginal culture by visiting places such as Geike Gorge near Fitzroy Crossing, visiting the Bungle Bungles or just experiencing Broome time in Broome.

As noted while I think Paris will be the next on the list, it will be interesting how this develops

https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/touris ... b88910046z

Hmmm, an interesting idea, but frankly, pitching western Australian to Italians because of its food will not work, that's putting it nicely and the reality is, I don't know if there is enough people in both directions willing to pay the premium over an EK one stop.

I would see CDG or FRA nonstop before FCO.

There is only one word for this: Hahahahaha

I don't see this happening at all. I'm not sure I see any Australia to anywhere that long nonstop other than JFK being desired by QF. I see a round-the-world flight being more likely (SYD-PER-LHR-LAX-BNE-SYD).

Mamma mia, mate!

Oh the Romans! smh! and... bwahahahahahaha!

Oh the Romans! smh! and... bwahahahahahaha!

Hahahaha! More proof that the Italian government doesn't understand the airline industry. Maybe this will happen in 20 years. MAYBE.

They could fly a Beechcraft Bonanza on this route and still not have a 100% occupancy

I love the way diplomats and ambassadors just mouth off their wish lists like this. I’m sure the Canadian ambassador to Vietnam is pushing for a Kamloops-Danang link too....

Back to the point, the only possibility of QF ever returning to Rome will be from the east coast. Also, it will need a codeshare partner from Rome to feed onto the rest of mainland Europe. And I don’t know who could this could be, Alitalia is in no position to provide this in its current state.

Realistically though, if the Dreamliner can do PER-LHR non stop, surely MEL-SYD-Rome is within range.

gardermoen wrote:

I love the way diplomats and ambassadors just mouth off their wish lists like this. I’m sure the Canadian ambassador to Vietnam is pushing for a Kamloops-Danang link too....

Back to the point, the only possibility of QF ever returning to Rome will be from the east coast. Also, it will need a codeshare partner from Rome to feed onto the rest of mainland Europe. And I don’t know who could this could be, Alitalia is in no position to provide this in its current state.

Realistically though, if the Dreamliner can do PER-LHR non stop, surely MEL-SYD-Rome is within range.

At over 8600nm MEL-FCO is out of range of the 787

If they throw in grants they might do it.
But otherwise I don’t see it happening.

Yeah , nah

How about MEL-ATH, connecting the two cities with the most Greek population

Mmm..No way..Not with Perth only, and not with an added premium to be paid. Maybe -BIG maybe- with a 'heavy' tag onto MEL & SYD...
I mean, FCO was always a big QF station in the olden days, but now with the ME3 everything has changed....
And thinking that you could market WA to the Italians is frankly wishful thinking at best. Italians don't see the point of flying more than 20 hours all the way to OzLand unless they will be able to say they've visited Sydney and the Great Reef. The sights the topic author mentions fall well short of the attention scope of Italians....

I mean, if QF didn't care much about yield they could perhaps open a weekly SYD-MEL-ATH-FCO with tatty old 747 in all Y... that they could probably fill!

This won't happen - IMO, the only other European destinations which might be launched from PER are CDG and FRA (based on demand and yield mix, needed to support such long flights). For the rest of Europe, including FCO, QF will likely continue to rely on EK.

Cheers,

C.

This shouldn't be a surprise, it's literally his job to try and get Rome on the list.

If the Italian government offer Qantas enough money then it will happen.

What nonsense, and not at all surprising given the current Italian government. While there is a large Italian diaspora in Australia, this just makes no sense and coming from a government that wants to renationalize its flag carrier whose last profit was in 1997 and oversees more debt than any other developed country apart from the US, this is just laughable.

Quite frankly, I think the prospect of anything other than non-stop to London is a remote possibility.

The data contained in the article linked below, demonstrates that Rome is the 5th largest market in Europe (behind London, Paris, Manchester and Frankfurt) and is a considerable distance behind London (which at 1.3m pax dwarfs the second (Paris: c. 250k) and third (Manchester: c. 225k) largest markets.

https://blueswandaily.com/qantas-looks- ... to-europe/

Ryanair01 wrote:

This shouldn't be a surprise, it's literally his job to try and get Rome on the list.

I did write a great big long post but for some reason only this got through.

In short (sorry can't be bothered to retype everything)

- WA has stunning natural wonders, but they're remote and take effort. In other words not mainstream. Mass tourism would trash them too.
- Current European holiday trends are:
1. Beach resort all inclusive (e.g. Caribbean), rest and relaxation, minimal effort but with a cultural twist.
2. Peer to peer city breaks (i.e. Air BnB).
- The problem for 1) is that whilst Perth has lovely beaches, the tourist facilities are no where near international standards, the chip shop and bar at Cottesloe don't cut it.
- Regarding 2) Perth is only a small city, 2-3 days is ample time for Fremantle, Cottesloe, Rottness Island etc. In terms of a destination Sydney with the iconic bridge and Bondi etc or Melbourne with that hipster thing offer much more. So Perth might work as a stop over, but has to compete with global cities like Dubai, Singapore, Hong Kong etc. Having said that Perth's off piste status will appeal to some, but again not necessarily the masses needed to fill daily flights.
- For adventure tourism very little ex Europe is independent, most are tours. Perhaps a missed opportunity here? However once again not enough to fill daily flights.

Can one cook pasta on the barbie?

oldannyboy wrote:

I mean, if QF didn't care much about yield they could perhaps open a weekly SYD-MEL-ATH-FCO with tatty old 747 in all Y... that they could probably fill!

There would be more chance of QF transferring the remaining 744's to Jetstar with a bare-bones all economy layout to service MEL/SYD - ATH/FCO/BEY/BEG/ZAG than seeing a QF 789 in FCO!


And if the price was right, they would have no trouble filling those 744's, even in JQ layout! The Greeks & Lebanese in particular are fond of a bargain.

DobboDobbo wrote:

The data contained in the article linked below, demonstrates that Rome is the 5th largest market in Europe (behind London, Paris, Manchester and Frankfurt) ...

That table refers to Australia - Europe, but I suspect that if you narrowed this to PER - Europe, DUB would be higher than potentially all those, except LHR. Five years ago, EK published data which showed that PER was EK's top destination ex-DUB, except for DXB. It beat out even SYD and MEL for demand (with a whopping 3x the demand to MEL), and I can't see any major factor which would have sabotaged PER's ranking since then - maybe a bit of slack from the mining bust? DUB - PER must also have been a major corridor for EY, as when EY launched PER, it launched / marketed it as a DUB - AUH - PER service.

This is important, because according to QF's data, most of the traffic on the LHR - PER service is PER-focused, and not travelling to other Australian cities. Therefore, if PER-focused and not Australian-focused traffic is a key criteria for a new QF PER - Europe service, I suspect DUB would be ahead of FCO. Add to that, i) DUB is wealthy with loads of multinationals and a booming economy, and ii) DUB has far fewer one-stop options for getting to PER than any other top 10 European city for Australian traffic (i.e. no SQ or TG, for example), and it's not hard to critique FCO's odds versus somewhere like DUB's for new QF flights.

*I should note that DUB has issues, like its runway length and being further away from PER than even LHR, which is already maxing out the 789's range, but the former issue will be resolved in 2021 with a new runway, and the latter issue may be resolved in the coming years through data and technology efficiencies and improvements. Even then, I do not see QF launching DUB - PER, let alone FCO - PER.

See:
- https://www.routesonline.com/news/29/br ... n-service/.
- https://www.irishtimes.com/business/tra ... -1.1626850.

Cheers,

C.

planemanofnz wrote:

This is important, because according to QF's data, most of the traffic on the LHR - PER service is PER-focused, and not travelling to other Australian cities. Therefore, if PER-focused and not Australian-focused traffic is a key criteria for a new QF PER - Europe service, I suspect DUB would be ahead of FCO. Add to that, i) DUB is wealthy with loads of multinationals and a booming economy, and ii) DUB has far fewer one-stop options for getting to PER than any other top 10 European city for Australian traffic (i.e. no SQ or TG, for example), and it's not hard to critique FCO's odds versus somewhere like DUB's for new QF flights.

*I should note that DUB has issues, like its runway length and being further away from PER than even LHR, which is already maxing out the 789's range, but the former issue will be resolved in 2021 with a new runway, and the latter issue may be resolved in the coming years through data and technology efficiencies and improvements. Even then, I do not see QF launching DUB - PER, let alone FCO - PER.

DUB perhaps being better than FCO isn't necessarily relevant. At some point down the rankings the market just isn't big enough. Nowhere is there a large market PER-Western Europe other than London. Going to the far northwest edge like DUB doesn't help justify ULH flights.

Governments really ought to stay away from economic decision making by air carriers. If the operating decisions aren't made on economic criteria you get perpetual basket cases like SAA, Olympic Airlines and Alitalia.

MIflyer12 wrote:

DUB perhaps being better than FCO isn't necessarily relevant. At some point down the rankings the market just isn't big enough. Nowhere is there a large market PER-Western Europe other than London.

Yep, hence why I said I don't see PER - DUB or PER - FCO.

Cheers,

C.

They need to court a pitt or indy flight. Best of all we need Minneapolis to Rome back.

PER-FCO is a route without sense, also since FCO is a SkyTeam and not a OneWorld hub. I would rather think of AMS, CDG or FRA (in alphabetical order), none of them a OneWorld hub but certainly with much more potential than FCO.

A better tactical move would be to tell QF, either you add the route or we will make AZ fly it!

flyingcat wrote:

A better tactical move would be to tell QF, either you add the route or we will make AZ fly it!

And if I were QF's CEO I would reply: you're more than welcome to have AZ fly that route ! (I also wonder which plane could AZ use, given the small and old long-haul fleet that AZ has.)

hahahahaha no, first connect the big european hubs CDG, AMS, FRA, IST (TK also)...
Only after that connect FCO, MUC, MXP, ZRH, GVA, LIS, MAD, BCN and others

I mean the Italians don’t seem to be All that knowledgeable about the workings of the aviation industry but this one isn’t toad far out of line as it may appear. Rome was a historically big city for QF, there is sizeable demand and there’s enough people who would potentially move over from the ME3 too make this happen. IMHO

Perhaps he meant to say FCO - SYD (or FCO - MEL), but he only got an E in geography. Could the 789 manage Rome - Sydney - Rome?

uta999 wrote:

Perhaps he meant to say FCO - SYD (or FCO - MEL), but he only got an E in geography. Could the 789 manage Rome - Sydney - Rome?

FCO-SYD is 8824nm. Even the 77L (without auxiliary tank) can't make that. The 789 can't even reach IST from SYD with good payload forget FCO.

Kent350787 wrote:

Yeah , nah

Awesome response