Armodeen wrote:

Honestly. Has any aircraft ever garnered as many threads on anet as the A380?

DL 744s farewell

kjeld0d wrote:

spinkid wrote:

Since Hi Fly kept the Singapore interior if you purchase Premium on DY you'll get a lie flat bed OR a First Class Suite assigned to you.

I recall reading on here that Singapore's first class suites were "patented" and "had to come out" when they sold it. I guess not?

According to The Points Guy, they are still in there. I like DY's premium seats, but nothing beats a Lie Flat bed, even if its"just" business class.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/norowegia ... -fly-a380/

any interior pictures of HI-Flys A380?

NWADTWE16 wrote:

any interior pictures of HI-Flys A380?

Yes. Just search for SQ A380 in the database

they made no changes? I thought they bought some brand new, or was that the beginning of the second hand market?

Balloonchaser wrote:

Is this the first A380 to operate out of Gatwick to the America’s?

Yes it is, the current Emirates Dubai to LGW route is the only A380 route from the LGW, there has been no other operators of the A380 at the airport although it has seen several visits from various airlines on diversions or one off visits.

Armodeen wrote:

Honestly. Has any aircraft ever garnered as many threads on anet as the A380?

Excellent point !
It is in the air ! Started wondering about this the day I chose a whale as profile pic.
From this it follows there will other threads - mark my word
Hi-Fly proved everyone wrong.

And does anyone see the IRONY that the A380 is leased to airlines because of problems with the 787 that supposedly proved Boeing's case against the VLA ? I am starting to think Airbus were better inspired, admittedly too soon, while the poor Catia execution & the wings cracks taught them several lessons that the A350 has obviously benefitted from.

I also think BA will get other A380s, new or second-hand, to prevent Norwegian & others like EK from eating further into their cake.
Competition is back ! Time for a glass of champagne

Balloonchaser wrote:

Is this the first A380 to operate out of Gatwick to the America’s?

Yes it is, the current 3 daily Emirates Dubai to LGW route is the only A380 route from LGW, there has been no other operators of the A380 at the airport although it has seen several visits from various airlines on diversions or one off visits.

Mortyman wrote:

hongkongflyer wrote:

Is the European airline mentioned by Hi Fly really actually Norwegian or Air Austral?

I believe what Hi Fly means is a relatively long team leasing which last for months,
rather then such ad-hoc rescue leasing from days to weeks.

Norwegian up to 24th of august then Air Austral

I means the Europen airline hints by Hi Fly may not be Norwegian and Air Austral as these flights are rather on a hd-hoc basis

Ok. I did it. I went for it and booked a Premium Flex ticket departing 8/5 and returning 8/9. It priced out to $1775 r/t. a quick google search shows that is what almost everyone else is charging in economy besides Norwegian and Wow.

It shows as Operated by Hi Fly on both segments. The red eye from JFK and the 5pm return from Gatwick. Seat selection showed as "Not available for this flight"

So, what I'll be wondering is. How can I get myself in that 1st class suite? Do you think it will just be random luck? I'm certain I should arrive ASAP for the flight. Maybe even slide a $20 to the gate agent. lol

You don't suppose they would block those out entirely in the interest of "fairness" and just assign all PE pax to the business section? Don't get me wrong, that's still a sweet deal across the pond, but I REALLY want that suite

Thankfully its a Flex ticket so I can refund it if they suddenly swap back a DY a/c.

DWC wrote:

Armodeen wrote:

Honestly. Has any aircraft ever garnered as many threads on anet as the A380?

Excellent point !
It is in the air ! Started wondering about this the day I chose a whale as profile pic.
From this it follows there will other threads - mark my word
Hi-Fly proved everyone wrong.

And does anyone see the IRONY that the A380 is leased to airlines because of problems with the 787 that supposedly proved Boeing's case against the VLA ? I am starting to think Airbus were better inspired, admittedly too soon, while the poor Catia execution & the wings cracks taught them several lessons that the A350 has obviously benefitted from.

I also think BA will get other A380s, new or second-hand, to prevent Norwegian & others like EK from eating further into their cake.
Competition is back ! Time for a glass of champagne

Dude chill out it’s 2 frames. And it’s a RR issue not Boeing. And all these airlines they are subbing for keep buying 787 not a380

Armodeen wrote:

Polot wrote:

I think we need a dedicated HiFly A380 operations thread. Posting a new one everytime it operates a new route or lands in a airport is getting a little excessive and makes it really hard to follow discussions about the aircraft since it gets splintered so much.

Honestly. Has any aircraft ever garnered as many threads on anet as the A380?

AA MD-80s.

AAR wrote:

NAS logic - get the biggest passenger plane in the sky delay departure 4 hours caused by no gate at JFK - all passengers can receive 600€ per person ... Expensive to run a A380 - what a luck nearly 500 passengers get a compensation

Well, it has to be 4 hours at arrival. Those on the HiFly A380 weren't so lucky yesterday as it landed with a delay of 3h56m, thus no compensation...

32andBelow wrote:

DWC wrote:

Armodeen wrote:

Honestly. Has any aircraft ever garnered as many threads on anet as the A380?

Excellent point !
It is in the air ! Started wondering about this the day I chose a whale as profile pic.
From this it follows there will other threads - mark my word
Hi-Fly proved everyone wrong.

And does anyone see the IRONY that the A380 is leased to airlines because of problems with the 787 that supposedly proved Boeing's case against the VLA ? I am starting to think Airbus were better inspired, admittedly too soon, while the poor Catia execution & the wings cracks taught them several lessons that the A350 has obviously benefitted from.

I also think BA will get other A380s, new or second-hand, to prevent Norwegian & others like EK from eating further into their cake.
Competition is back ! Time for a glass of champagne

Dude chill out it’s 2 frames. And it’s a RR issue not Boeing. And all these airlines they are subbing for keep buying 787 not a380

Agreed. Part of me anyway.
The other sees what I said. In particular the irony however small the number of frames, barely enough to make it to plural.
Plus the 787 is a series of problems, delays, batteries, financial sink hole & the RR is only the latest glitch.

At the same time the 787 is a huge succes & has managed an impressive ramp up, I've flown it several times & love it just as I do the A380.

So best now is to wait & see, but if BA get more A380, do have a glass of champagne that day
In another thread btw, I had - correctly - predicted that EK would get the new frames on pure Game Theory rational grounds.

Any confirmation yet of a second ex SQ bird for Hi Fly?

Aren't gatwicks a380 gates at the north terminal, whereas DY operates from the south ?

DWC wrote:

32andBelow wrote:

DWC wrote:

Excellent point !
It is in the air ! Started wondering about this the day I chose a whale as profile pic.
From this it follows there will other threads - mark my word
Hi-Fly proved everyone wrong.

And does anyone see the IRONY that the A380 is leased to airlines because of problems with the 787 that supposedly proved Boeing's case against the VLA ? I am starting to think Airbus were better inspired, admittedly too soon, while the poor Catia execution & the wings cracks taught them several lessons that the A350 has obviously benefitted from.

I also think BA will get other A380s, new or second-hand, to prevent Norwegian & others like EK from eating further into their cake.
Competition is back ! Time for a glass of champagne

Dude chill out it’s 2 frames. And it’s a RR issue not Boeing. And all these airlines they are subbing for keep buying 787 not a380

Plus the 787 is a series of problems, delays, batteries, financial sink hole & the RR is only the latest glitch.

Financial sink hole? How ironic the aircraft doing the sub is the one in the hole financially.

spinkid wrote:

Ok. I did it. I went for it and booked a Premium Flex ticket departing 8/5 and returning 8/9. It priced out to $1775 r/t. a quick google search shows that is what almost everyone else is charging in economy besides Norwegian and Wow.

It shows as Operated by Hi Fly on both segments. The red eye from JFK and the 5pm return from Gatwick. Seat selection showed as "Not available for this flight"

So, what I'll be wondering is. How can I get myself in that 1st class suite? Do you think it will just be random luck? I'm certain I should arrive ASAP for the flight. Maybe even slide a $20 to the gate agent. lol

You don't suppose they would block those out entirely in the interest of "fairness" and just assign all PE pax to the business section? Don't get me wrong, that's still a sweet deal across the pond, but I REALLY want that suite

Thankfully its a Flex ticket so I can refund it if they suddenly swap back a DY a/c.

Damn, am getting envious

Slug71 wrote:

AF022 wrote:

Can DY make money doing this? I would assume the wet-lease rate is high.

They wouldn't do it if they couldn't ......
Just like any business, they are there to make a profit.

Tell that to SAA, Alitalia and Air India

I have renamed an existing thread into Hifly A380 operations thread and will successively merge all other threads and post into this one. This will cause some inconvenience in the beginning and I am sorry for this, but I think it does make sense to have single thread about this topic.

readytotaxi wrote:

Slug71 wrote:

AF022 wrote:

Can DY make money doing this? I would assume the wet-lease rate is high.

They wouldn't do it if they couldn't ......
Just like any business, they are there to make a profit.

Tell that to SAA, Alitalia and Air India

Or Norwegian themselves.....

I'm guessing they will go ahead and sell extra seats on it.
A typical DY 787-9 has 344 pax 309 in E and 35 in PE
The H-FLY A380 has 471 seats with 12 Suites, 60 Business and 399 E.

I think they have a canceled flight to clear out a backlog with these first few, but that is a substantial increase in inventory.

In a way its serving as a bit of an experiment to see what an A380 can do as an LCC or ULCC. I find the concept of Premium seating without Premium service to be intriguing.

9H-MIP just left JFK to LGW as flight NRS7016 - with a delay of 5,5 hours! How will they ever come back in schedule with only one plane and such a delay? I guess though the passenger get an upgrade in plane they would much more prefer to reach their destination in time...but Norwegian is a LCC so you get what you pay for;-)

spinkid wrote:

In a way its serving as a bit of an experiment to see what an A380 can do as an LCC or ULCC. I find the concept of Premium seating without Premium service to be intriguing.

Agreed. Although I think a higher density 2nd generation A380 would really be a gamechanger in that regard.

AirbusOnly wrote:

9H-MIP just left JFK to LGW as flight NRS7016 - with a delay of 5,5 hours! How will they ever come back in schedule with only one plane and such a delay? I guess though the passenger get an upgrade in plane they would much more prefer to reach their destination in time...but Norwegian is a LCC so you get what you pay for;-)

Yes I just noticed that too. The NE US has been a mess this week too, what with severe thunderstorms and bad WX. It won’t be easy.

That said, DY7016 should arrive to LGW a little before 4pm today, thanks to a quick inbound flight time. There’s no way they’re turning her around in time for the next departure at 5pm, I’d say that’s impossible in 75 minutes, and that’s without any other unexpected delays/hitches, which are to be expected for a new aircraft type just due to logistics and procedures. However, I’d say they can probably get out with a delay of an hour or so, meaning arrival to JFK for 9pm or just after.

Again, tight, but not impossible for the turnaround at JFK to allow for some “catch-up” and make up the lost time. Weather permitting, and of course, JFK is notoriously busy late evening, and terrible for long taxi times and delays at the best of times. But not impossible, and I’d say as has been the case all week, the inbound JFK-LGW should allow a quick return to London to help out too. It’ll be interesting to watch for sure! I’ll be keeping a close eye!

Taxi645 wrote:

spinkid wrote:

In a way its serving as a bit of an experiment to see what an A380 can do as an LCC or ULCC. I find the concept of Premium seating without Premium service to be intriguing.

Agreed. Although I think a higher density 2nd generation A380 would really be a gamechanger in that regard.

Yes, this plane is way too premium heavy with too few seats for any low cost operations. You would probably need about 700 seats for a low cost operation. Those 12 suites is probably taking up the space of how many economy seats each, 10 or 12? Swapping those suites for economy probably would bring the seat count up to around or close to 600. Still would need some rearrangement of the business class with less space for each seat for another dusins of added economy seats.

All this said, I am fairly sure a A380 could command a higher low cost fare than say a B787 or (ten abreast) B777 or whatever other low cost configured aircraft.

I just did a dummy booking at norwegian.com between LGW and JFK. Some departures are listed as operated by HiFly. Selecting one of those departures makes it impossible to display the seat map. I guess that by selecting Norwegian premium cabin and a flight operated by HiFly, you would get a ex-SIA lie-flat business class seat across the Atlantic. It is not often we have the opportunity to get a business class seat for less than approximately $£/ €500 one way, crossing the Atlantic.

FCAFLYBOY wrote:

AirbusOnly wrote:

9H-MIP just left JFK to LGW as flight NRS7016 - with a delay of 5,5 hours! How will they ever come back in schedule with only one plane and such a delay? I guess though the passenger get an upgrade in plane they would much more prefer to reach their destination in time...but Norwegian is a LCC so you get what you pay for;-)

Yes I just noticed that too. The NE US has been a mess this week too, what with severe thunderstorms and bad WX. It won’t be easy.

That said, DY7016 should arrive to LGW a little before 4pm today, thanks to a quick inbound flight time. There’s no way they’re turning her around in time for the next departure at 5pm, I’d say that’s impossible in 75 minutes, and that’s without any other unexpected delays/hitches, which are to be expected for a new aircraft type just due to logistics and procedures. However, I’d say they can probably get out with a delay of an hour or so, meaning arrival to JFK for 9pm or just after.

Again, tight, but not impossible for the turnaround at JFK to allow for some “catch-up” and make up the lost time. Weather permitting, and of course, JFK is notoriously busy late evening, and terrible for long taxi times and delays at the best of times. But not impossible, and I’d say as has been the case all week, the inbound JFK-LGW should allow a quick return to London to help out too. It’ll be interesting to watch for sure! I’ll be keeping a close eye!

They're operating to a different schedule with the A380 - LGW departure 2105 due to lack of A380 gate availability at JFK T1

There is a case to be made that flying is getting from point A to point B. When things go amiss the matter of substance is indeed getting home. You may be downgraded or upgraded. You may not get to lie flat. The meals may be a little strange. The aviation passenger world is in need of a backup fleet. Volcanoes, super snow storms, floods strand tens of thousands. If that reserve fleet can just get you within a couple of thousand miles on the right continent you will be grateful. And those 380s can clear the airport of stranded passengers faster than any other plane. Although used 777s might also have their place.

And as well some airline that could earn money flying a single 380 (or other larger plane), Hi Fly can now provide the backup. It has always struck me wrong that we hear that an airline has to have a fleet of 6 or so 380s to make it work.

Just heard it on the radio “Rednose Super”

787Driver wrote:

Just heard it on the radio “Rednose Super”

That is a pretty funny callsign. I wasn't aware Norwegian Air UK's callsign was "Rednose". HiFly Malta's callsign is "Moonraker", but they probably only use that when flying charter or repositioning, not when covering another airline's routes.

readytotaxi wrote:

Slug71 wrote:

AF022 wrote:

Can DY make money doing this? I would assume the wet-lease rate is high.

They wouldn't do it if they couldn't ......
Just like any business, they are there to make a profit.

Tell that to SAA, Alitalia and Air India

Lol. Touché.

YellowJ wrote:

DWC wrote:

32andBelow wrote:

Dude chill out it’s 2 frames. And it’s a RR issue not Boeing. And all these airlines they are subbing for keep buying 787 not a380

Plus the 787 is a series of problems, delays, batteries, financial sink hole & the RR is only the latest glitch.

Financial sink hole? How ironic the aircraft doing the sub is the one in the hole financially.

Right !
I did not say the A380 wasn't.
And now that you mention it, both sinkholes are helping each other !
Odd, is it not ? A XXth century tech airplane leased because XXIst tech smaller buddy is having issues...

spinkid wrote:

Ok. I did it. I went for it and booked a Premium Flex ticket departing 8/5 and returning 8/9. It priced out to $1775 r/t. a quick google search shows that is what almost everyone else is charging in economy besides Norwegian and Wow.

It shows as Operated by Hi Fly on both segments. The red eye from JFK and the 5pm return from Gatwick. Seat selection showed as "Not available for this flight"

So, what I'll be wondering is. How can I get myself in that 1st class suite? Do you think it will just be random luck? I'm certain I should arrive ASAP for the flight. Maybe even slide a $20 to the gate agent. lol

You don't suppose they would block those out entirely in the interest of "fairness" and just assign all PE pax to the business section? Don't get me wrong, that's still a sweet deal across the pond, but I REALLY want that suite

Thankfully its a Flex ticket so I can refund it if they suddenly swap back a DY a/c.

You better keep a close watch because HiFly has been operating for DY for years. "Operated by HiFly" doesn't guarantee it will be the A380, which is probably why they don't let you pick the seats.
As for how you can get yourself in the suites? It's explained in the link that you yourself posted in reply 153

JayBCNLON wrote:

Why is one of the biggest airports in the world (JFK) not able to simply handle an aircraft without a glitch more than 10 years after its market entry ?

Because the A380 is not a USA product.

(remember Concorde?)

reidar76 wrote:

I just did a dummy booking at norwegian.com between LGW and JFK. Some departures are listed as operated by HiFly. Selecting one of those departures makes it impossible to display the seat map. I guess that by selecting Norwegian premium cabin and a flight operated by HiFly, you would get a ex-SIA lie-flat business class seat across the Atlantic. It is not often we have the opportunity to get a business class seat for less than approximately $£/ €500 one way, crossing the Atlantic.

Come along with me! lol

someone mentioned a an A380 with high density across the Atlantic. I think that is just way too many seats to fill. Perhaps a sweet spot would be an A380 with lots of Premium Economy seating priced nicely.

tapairbus370 wrote:

JayBCNLON wrote:

Why is one of the biggest airports in the world (JFK) not able to simply handle an aircraft without a glitch more than 10 years after its market entry ?

Because the A380 is not a USA product.

(remember Concorde?)

Tell that to EK, EY, LH, AF, SQ, OZ and KE.

Apart from who is to blame for the delays (JFK not having enough gates to cope with so many A380 flights, etc.) Did anybody hear anything about the passenger experience on those HiFly A380 flights? Any feedback?

Bricktop wrote:

tapairbus370 wrote:

JayBCNLON wrote:

Why is one of the biggest airports in the world (JFK) not able to simply handle an aircraft without a glitch more than 10 years after its market entry ?

Because the A380 is not a USA product.

(remember Concorde?)

Tell that to EK, EY, LH, AF, SQ, OZ and KE.

I wasn't referring to the airlines. I was talking about polítics.

And EK and EY...... well check how they were when the Concorde was around.

Bricktop wrote:

tapairbus370 wrote:

JayBCNLON wrote:

Why is one of the biggest airports in the world (JFK) not able to simply handle an aircraft without a glitch more than 10 years after its market entry ?

Because the A380 is not a USA product.

(remember Concorde?)

Tell that to EK, EY, LH, AF, SQ, OZ and KE.

What exactly is the point of your statement ? What are we supposed to tell these airlines ? None of them are US products.

I think tapairbus is right: if the A380 indeed was a US product, not only would US infrastructure be more ready, but also US airlines would have gone for it. And yes I have heard the arguments against it (US airlines didn’t even go after 747-8/have multiple hubs and prefer frequency), but I still think that US patriotism would have worked for a US made A380 and did indeed work against an EU made one.

And concorde and even more so the sluggish market entry of the A300 in the US are actually perfect indications of this school of thought.

All that is indeed well documented. The US did everything to counter Concorde & Airbus, until AB played the smart game with Eastern to break the ice & bias, Boeing cried their lungs out "FOUL" as if they played by the rules : the 767Tanker & C-series are just the latest despicable low blows, happy the last blew up in their face. That said, the 777 & 787 are remarkable planes, just beauuuuutiful both of them.

In defence of the US3, the financial Zeitgeist in the US is one of low risk even if it ends in congesting airports, paying for more smaller frames & pilots, thus more expensive to the end consumer, The system is just so inefficient. Flexibility for premium pax actually comes in at a higher price for everyone, but since the info is not well understood, asymmetric information, then the non cooperative game goes on & one gets the cattle Y cabin in both the 777 & 787. I posted earlier that I happened to fly Y in JAL on both the 777 & 787, superb cabin & service with the originally planned configuration, 9 & 8 respectively & not cattle class 10 & 9, I'll fly them anytime if I can.
Point being all 3 US3 forwent the opportunity of a higher experience for pax & a more efficient operation with the A380. If the ME3, AF, BA, LH, KE, OZ can take it to the US, then the US3 of all airlines could given their captive market & oligopolistic pricing. Instead, they are losing market share internationally & have become the reference for the lowest possible long haul service - sad. And terrible strategy.

From reports the Koito business seats in the HiFly A380 only have an exemption thru September 2021,

So at some point in the next few years HiFly will likely have to do some sort of a refit.

I wonder if they'll be allowed to install the Airbus proposed 11-across seats in Y (think manufactured by Geven).

Guess it will depend on what kind of customers they get over the next few years .

DWC wrote:

YellowJ wrote:

DWC wrote:

Plus the 787 is a series of problems, delays, batteries, financial sink hole & the RR is only the latest glitch.

Financial sink hole? How ironic the aircraft doing the sub is the one in the hole financially.

Right !
I did not say the A380 wasn't.
And now that you mention it, both sinkholes are helping each other !
Odd, is it not ? A XXth century tech airplane leased because XXIst tech smaller buddy is having issues...

No because a sinkhole implies something is floundering, unable to return.

One is selling like hotcakes and climbing out that hole faster than Indiana Jones, while the next one is sinking deeper into the Earth's crust.

It's not odd at all. Airlines lease whatever has enough seats and is cheap.

JayBCNLON wrote:

Bricktop wrote:

tapairbus370 wrote:

Because the A380 is not a USA product.

(remember Concorde?)

Tell that to EK, EY, LH, AF, SQ, OZ and KE.

What exactly is the point of your statement ? What are we supposed to tell these airlines ? None of them are US products.

I think tapairbus is right: if the A380 indeed was a US product, not only would US infrastructure be more ready, but also US airlines would have gone for it. And yes I have heard the arguments against it (US airlines didn’t even go after 747-8/have multiple hubs and prefer frequency), but I still think that US patriotism would have worked for a US made A380 and did indeed work against an EU made one.

And concorde and even more so the sluggish market entry of the A300 in the US are actually perfect indications of this school of thought.

Your original question was answered. Terminal 1 was built before there was a A380. Since the space at JFK is limited due to the bay and the Expressway, their simply isn't room to expand without impeding the apron area. It has nothing to do with it not being a US product; keeping in mind how long it took some airports to handle the 747. You have terminals out there that still can't handle wide-bodies because their is simply insufficient space or the cost to close down a adjacent gate wasn't worth it. It's ridiculous to imply otherwise.

Another aspect: which pilots are flying this bird? IMO they could fly at any other airline who is driving the A380, especially EK who chronically lack pilots, and must not fly for HiFly - I am nearly sure they earn less money and their working conditions are worse than those that have established airlines

The problem here for JFK operations: at Terminal 1, there are only three gates that are A380 capable---Gates 5, 8, and 11. Terminal 4 (DY/DI/D8 use T1) has 3 A380 capable gates.

As for pilots, I suspect that the A330/340 pilots have been trained on this A380. This has resulted in extensive delays...being held in Gatwick for lack of gate space at JFK. Someone also mentioned that TK has to put an A330-300 on one of its frequencies to JFK because the available gates can't handle the 777 (and Gate 1 cannot handle anything bigger than a 767; typically OJ or OS use that gate, sometimes KX).

AirbusOnly wrote:

Another aspect: which pilots are flying this bird? IMO they could fly at any other airline who is driving the A380, especially EK who chronically lack pilots, and must not fly for HiFly - I am nearly sure they earn less money and their working conditions are worse than those that have established airlines

HiFly pilots are flying this bird. Former A340/A330 pilots.

tapairbus370 wrote:

Bricktop wrote:

tapairbus370 wrote:

Because the A380 is not a USA product.

(remember Concorde?)

Tell that to EK, EY, LH, AF, SQ, OZ and KE.

I wasn't referring to the airlines. I was talking about polítics.

And EK and EY...... well check how they were when the Concorde was around.

Utter silliness. The false premise was that JFK can’t/won’t handle the A380 because it isn’t a US product.
I gave the example of 7 airlines that fly the A380 into JFK.

The notion that the US doesn’t upgrade its infrastructure to accommodate the A380 because it is a European product is ludicrous.
But feel free to cite evidence to the contrary.

Speculation, and invite corrections.
The 380 is really big
It likely takes the place of two smaller planes
And it has to be in an international terminal for immigration and tariff reasons (big problem)
A gate designed for the 380 needs to be used 6 (?) times a day to be profitable
Every airport in the US including SeaTac would be happy to build such a gate if they could and if it would be used enough

frmrCapCadet wrote:

Speculation, and invite corrections.
The 380 is really big
It likely takes the place of two smaller planes
And it has to be in an international terminal for immigration and tariff reasons (big problem)
A gate designed for the 380 needs to be used 6 (?) times a day to be profitable
Every airport in the US including SeaTac would be happy to build such a gate if they could and if it would be used enough

Or one just builds and uses an apron position and busses the pax to the terminal like it is done in any conntry outside NA without making a deal out of it