Aeroméxico E190 Accident in Durango July 31

45272455674 · Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:55 pm

george77300 wrote:
LATEST CONFORMATION

95 onboard (unsure if 95 pax + crew or 95 total) but,

ALL SURVIVED

That's a remarkable result - everyone surviving. Very fortunate. The plane is an absolute wreck.

ikolkyo · Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:56 pm

Fantastic news, about passenger and crew. Now lets investigate!

jcleal · Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:58 pm

From local news: it appears to be an overrun, according to a surivor testimony, no fatalities, however 18 injured and 4 in critical condition... climate related accident...

SkyVoice · Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:59 pm

DEO GRACIAS! If all souls on board survived, that is great news! Has anyone seen the METARs yet for MMDO? If weather was inclement during takeoff & climbout, and with that field's elevation & the heat that has set in over northern Mexico & the western USA, this may have been a much greater work of airmanship on the part of the cockpit crew, plus the work of the cabin crew to evacuate the aircraft, than anyone of us realize yet.

itisi · Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:00 pm

It says some distance from the airport, others have mentioned approx 10km from the airport ........ so it must have taken off!! Can't abort take off and get 10km off the end of the runway.

airportugal310 · Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:03 pm

MMDO 312103Z RTD 28007KT 7SM OVC015CB 17/14 A3024 RMK SLP118 57014 956 8/9// PISTA CERRADA POR ACFT ACCIDENTADA BINOVC=

Indicates the runway is closed for aircraft accident. The reports of it being 6mi/10km away seem highly dubious

ikolkyo · Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:06 pm

Parts of the aircraft look to be everywhere in this video linked below
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... liHSenKgk8

aemoreira1981 · Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:07 pm

The METAR at the time:

MMDO 312248Z 15006KT 10SM BKN020CB OVC200 24/11 A3020 RMK 8/903 TS PCPN E BINOVC
Conditions at: MMDO (DURANGO AIRPORT , MX) observed 2248 UTC 31 July 2018

Temperature: 24.0°C (75°F)

Dewpoint: 11.0°C (52°F) [RH = 44%]
Pressure (altimeter): 30.20 inches Hg (1022.8 mb)
Winds:from the SSE (150 degrees) at 7 MPH (6 knots; 3.1 m/s)
Visibility: 10 or more miles (16+ km)
Ceiling: 2000 feet AGL
Clouds: broken clouds at 2000 feet AGL, overcast cloud deck at 20000 feet AGL
Weather: no significant weather observed at this time

It could have been different at the time of the accident.

HoboJoe · Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:11 pm

That's more than an aborted takeoff. Pilot error

andrew50 · Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:14 pm

XA-GAL at IAH

aerolimani · Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:17 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
Parts of the aircraft look to be everywhere in this video linked below
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... liHSenKgk8

Woah! Well… that clears up one thing. The aircraft definitely did not end up 10km from the airport. As to the reason for rejected takeoff after V1… I'd say that loss of an engine is more than sufficient reason.

HoboJoe wrote:
That's more than an aborted takeoff. Pilot error

Looking at the above video says otherwise to me. I can't imagine what pilot error would wind up like this.

Samrnpage · Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:21 pm

MSJYOP28Apilot wrote:
If it does turn out to be the result of a RTO after V1, the captain is going to have to justify why he aborted the takeoff when he did. It has to be something pretty serious or extreme post V1 for a pilot to abort instead of continuing the takeoff when you get to that speed due to the risk of an overrun.

I wonder if this could be a case of a thunderstorm outflow boundary quickly the wind direction. The headwind or crosswind component quickly turning to a strong tailwind. DGO is a high altitude airport. While it has a 9500ft runway, with altitude and temperature that isnt all that long. Depending on the scenario, I could see a non V1 abort due to a sudden strong shear to a tailwind causing the overrun.

It was 10km away from the airport wasnt it?

KrustyTheKlown · Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:25 pm

Some weather data:

- Before the accident (~2:30 pm)
Wind 010° 5kt. Visibility 10sm. Clouds broken 2500ft cumulonimbus. Temperature 28°C, dew point 10°C. Altimeter 30.23inHg.
Remark: 8/300

- Around the time of the accident (~3:00 pm)

Wind 070° 3kt. Visibility 7sm. Thunderstorm rain. Clouds broken 2000ft cumulonimbus. Temperature 20°C, dew point 13°C. Altimeter 30.23inHg.
Remark: 8/900 TSRAB13

- Afterwards (~ 4:00 pm)

Wind 280° 7kt. Visibility 7sm. Clouds overcast 1500ft cumulonimbus. Temperature 17°C, dew point 14°C. Altimeter 30.24inHg.
Remark: SLP118 57014 956 8/9// PISTA CERRADA POR ACFT ACCIDENTADA BINOVC

ozark1 · Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:27 pm

LHUSA wrote:
Concerning that the back right door doesn't appear to have been opened for use during evacuation. Hoping for the best!

In training we've been taught the the quickest means of escape may be breaks in the fuselage which must have happened here.

Armodeen · Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:31 pm

Samrnpage wrote:
MSJYOP28Apilot wrote:
If it does turn out to be the result of a RTO after V1, the captain is going to have to justify why he aborted the takeoff when he did. It has to be something pretty serious or extreme post V1 for a pilot to abort instead of continuing the takeoff when you get to that speed due to the risk of an overrun.

I wonder if this could be a case of a thunderstorm outflow boundary quickly the wind direction. The headwind or crosswind component quickly turning to a strong tailwind. DGO is a high altitude airport. While it has a 9500ft runway, with altitude and temperature that isnt all that long. Depending on the scenario, I could see a non V1 abort due to a sudden strong shear to a tailwind causing the overrun.

It was 10km away from the airport wasnt it?

See this video posted a few replies earlier, which clearly shows the aircraft has come to rest off the end of the runway.

ikolkyo wrote:
Re: Aeroméxico E190 Accident in Durango July 31
by ikolkyo » 31 Jul 2018 23:06

Parts of the aircraft look to be everywhere in this video linked below
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... liHSenKgk8

Narfish641 · Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:34 pm

I saw the link that ikolkyo posted. Correct me if I am wrong, but near the end of the video, I think I might of just seen one of the engines ripped apart. If so, this was no aborted take off before V1 obviously.

musman9853 · Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:35 pm

SpeckSpot wrote:
For what it's worth, some journalists have used language like "fell" and "went down". Which would suggest that it got airborne. I don't know whether to believe that or chalk it up to incompetent journalism, but accurate reporting would be nice.

the reporting was accurate. apparently crash landed like 10km from rnwy

Waterbomber · Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:40 pm

While the pictures show a trail of debris, they don't show any runway or airport facilities at the other end of the trail. Reports state the wreckage is located 10 Km from the airport. At 200 kts, that's just a minute and a half of flying from the airport.
So this may be an off airport emergency landing.
It could be anything at this point: an engine failure, icing, windshear.

Everyone is safe, that's what matters.

Alias1024 · Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:42 pm

musman9853 wrote:
SpeckSpot wrote:
For what it's worth, some journalists have used language like "fell" and "went down". Which would suggest that it got airborne. I don't know whether to believe that or chalk it up to incompetent journalism, but accurate reporting would be nice.

the reporting was accurate. apparently crash landed like 10km from rnwy

Watch the video. It’s not 10km from the runway unless that’s a different airport.

That engine off the left side of the runway is very interesting. I’d think some early possibilities involve loss of control during the takeoff roll or rejected takeoff maneuver, or the aircraft becoming briefly airborne before involuntary return to earth because of wind shear or perhaps bad performance numbers, or even a reject just after liftoff because the aircraft was somehow unflyable. That last one would be quite extraordinary but can’t rule anything out this early.

KrustyTheKlown · Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:45 pm

musman9853 wrote:
SpeckSpot wrote:
For what it's worth, some journalists have used language like "fell" and "went down". Which would suggest that it got airborne. I don't know whether to believe that or chalk it up to incompetent journalism, but accurate reporting would be nice.

the reporting was accurate. apparently crash landed like 10km from rnwy

This video posted by ikolkyo shows that the plane crashed inside the airport, apparently a few hundred meters after the end of the runways.

The video also shows that at least the left engine was ripped off from the aircraft before the end of the runway.

SpeckSpot · Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:50 pm

The youtube video shows people driving along the runway, and the plane is visible from the end of the runway, though it is off the runway. So it looks like it is much closer than the 10km.

F9Animal · Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:57 pm

Anyone notice the storm in the video shot minutes after? I am gonna have to say, that storm looked nasty. Perhaps microburst, or even a microburst with a compression stall? Whatever the case, thankful to hear all got out alive! 20 to 30 years ago, I bet we wouldn't have been so lucky! Technology, better training, and better built planes are a blessing!

barney captain · Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:00 am

I'd swear I see BOTH engines in that video. One at the very beginning, and another @ 1000ft further down.

Waterbomber · Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:01 am

Yes looks like the 10km report was wrong.
It looks like the aircraft exited the runway diagonally, ripping the engines off in the process.
Interesting to note the distance between the final resting place of the wreckage and where the engines are located.

many321 · Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:14 am

barney captain wrote:
I'd swear I see BOTH engines in that video. One at the very beginning, and another @ 1000ft further down.

You're not the only one. Seems one of the engines came off from the E190 first, then after several feet the other one came off before the rest of the aircraft ended at the end of the runway.

Murdoughnut · Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:16 am

HoboJoe wrote:
That's more than an aborted takeoff. Pilot error

We can go ahead and skip the investigation - this guy figured it out from his keyboard!

trnswrld · Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:20 am

Waterbomber wrote:
While the pictures show a trail of debris, they don't show any runway or airport facilities at the other end of the trail. Reports state the wreckage is located 10 Km from the airport. At 200 kts, that's just a minute and a half of flying from the airport.
So this may be an off airport emergency landing.
It could be anything at this point: an engine failure, icing, windshear.

Everyone is safe, that's what matters.

Icing?!? In Mexico....in July/August?? I think we can eliminate that as a possibility for a departing aircraft

I mean I see your point, but just saying...it can’t be that lol.

KrustyTheKlown · Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:23 am

barney captain wrote:
I'd swear I see BOTH engines in that video. One at the very beginning, and another @ 1000ft further down.

It would be very strange that both engines ended up on the same side of the runway. I think the video first shows the cowling and then the core from the same engine.

citationjet · Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:40 am

PatrickZ80 wrote:
I wouldn't call this intact.

The empennage (vertical and horizontal stabilizers) look undamaged. The fuselage aft of the aft pressure bulkhead suffered very little damage.

rigo · Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:44 am

SpeckSpot wrote:
According to the Reuters link, the plane took off, and then very quickly made an emergency landing 10 km away from the airport (as reported by Alejandro Cardoza, a spokesman for a state agency). Emergency landing off a runway would cause a debris track that could look like an overrun.

It's nothing short of a miracle that no-one got killed.

N6168E · Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:48 am

KrustyTheKlown wrote:
barney captain wrote:
I'd swear I see BOTH engines in that video. One at the very beginning, and another @ 1000ft further down.

It would be very strange that both engines ended up on the same side of the runway. I think the video first shows the cowling and then the core from the same engine.

I missed the second engine (about 15 seconds in) just before the taxiway at the far end of the runway. The first engine was lost several hundred feet earlier (around 57 seconds). Quite a bit of other debris prior to that. Takeoff was from Rwy 3 and it's 9500', so the first engine is about 9200' feet from the start of the take-off roll. Hard to tell, but it looks like it may have gone off the runway a little before the first engine came off and the second one came of a little bit later. It must have been a wild ride.

flyinggoat · Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:58 am

It's great to see there were no fatalities!

It sure looks like both engines sitting along the runway to me. In the video, it looks like one at 0:14, and another engine at 0:45.

It will be interesting to see what the cause was. It's hard to tell in the video, but is there livestock in the background?

cougar15 · Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:00 am

quite a bit of detail on the AvHerald

http://avherald.com/h?article=4bbcb11c&opt=0

JAAlbert · Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:03 am

many321 wrote:
barney captain wrote:
I'd swear I see BOTH engines in that video. One at the very beginning, and another @ 1000ft further down.

You're not the only one. Seems one of the engines came off from the E190 first, then after several feet the other one came off before the rest of the aircraft ended at the end of the runway.

What I find fascinating is that the plane seems to have continued for several thousand feet after losing first one engine, then the second. I would think that friction with the ground would slow this plane down rather quickly, but the video shows it continued for quite a distance before it finally stopped.

I am hoping one of our ultra-knowledgeable, tech-savvy a.net gurus will put up a photo of the airport runways with a diagram showing the location of the engines and resting place of the jet.

Tomassjc · Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:03 am

Excellent work by the flight crew in getting everyone off the aircraft quickly.

Gregd75 · Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:09 am

Thank goodness that there were no fatalities.

I was flying on an Aeromexico flight whennnews came through. The suggestion is that there was a strong crosswind gust(s) that impacted the takeoff.

Not sure how true this could be, but it’s worth a mention here.

ilovelamp · Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:17 am

Gregd75 wrote:
Thank goodness that there were no fatalities.

I was flying on an Aeromexico flight whennnews came through. The suggestion is that there was a strong crosswind gust(s) that impacted the takeoff.

Not sure how true this could be, but it’s worth a mention here.

If it’s true there was an engine failure at or close to V1 plus adverse (shifting winds) conditions this could have been an unavoidable and unwinnable situation for the pilots.

spacecadet · Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:19 am

I'm just guessing the engines "dug in" to divots in the ground and were ripped off with the plane basically on the ground and parallel to it, rather than flying and diving into it. I can't tell if the landing gear is in that mess of parts but it would surprise me if the gear didn't collapse first. Still would be a very violent event and I'm surprised the overall accident wasn't worse.

May not have happened at all if they hadn't veered off the runway. That shouldn't happen from an engine failure.

aerolimani · Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:31 am

cougar15 wrote:
quite a bit of detail on the AvHerald

http://avherald.com/h?article=4bbcb11c&opt=0

That is useful, and I trust the info from AVH. The article says both engines came off, and on the left side of the runway. So, here's a scenario… lose engine 1 (for whatever reason) then asymmetrical thrust pushes you off the left side of the runway where you lose engine 2, perhaps due to impact with the ground.

barney captain · Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:31 am

JAAlbert wrote:
many321 wrote:
barney captain wrote:
I'd swear I see BOTH engines in that video. One at the very beginning, and another @ 1000ft further down.

You're not the only one. Seems one of the engines came off from the E190 first, then after several feet the other one came off before the rest of the aircraft ended at the end of the runway.

What I find fascinating is that the plane seems to have continued for several thousand feet after losing first one engine, then the second. I would think that friction with the ground would slow this plane down rather quickly, but the video shows it continued for quite a distance before it finally stopped.

I am hoping one of our ultra-knowledgeable, tech-savvy a.net gurus will put up a photo of the airport runways with a diagram showing the location of the engines and resting place of the jet.

From the AVH site -

edu2703 · Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:37 am

dptpa · Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:38 am

From twitter, the link is in Spanish. I can’t speak to to the author’s credibility either. Loosely translated it states that interviews from two passengers on board indicate that the aircraft was struck by lightning.

https://twitter.com/gutierrezfalcon/sta ... 65920?s=21

Another link here, with passenger stating that lightning struck the aircraft as well:

https://twitter.com/lasplayerasmx/statu ... 07552?s=21

spacecadet · Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:58 am

I don't think you'd have a way to be sure from on-board that your plane was struck by lightning. In an accident where the engines get ripped off and a fire ensues, there were probably flashes as fuel lines were broken, metal sparked, etc. From inside the cabin, unless you were looking right at it, it would be hard to tell definitively what it was and you'd probably hear a "boom" like thunder along with it too.

It's an interesting wrinkle but until we hear more, really hard for me to believe that lightning played a role in this.

bzcat · Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:05 am

Highly unlikely that both engine suffered uncontained failure so I'm guessing the engines were ripped off by ground impact when the plane left the runway while still on takeoff roll.

aerolimani · Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:12 am

Governor says Aeromexico airliner was hit by wind gust as it left runway just before crashing in northern Mexico.

https://abcnews.go.com/International/wi ... y-56954252

hongkongflyer · Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:17 am

WkndWanderer wrote:
rufflesx wrote:
This video was apparently shot 5 minutes after the incident

https://twitter.com/i/status/1024406338468753408

Does that look like a trail of ripped up field/debris behind the main wreck in that video? Like it slid through the field for a while before stopping.

turned 90 degrees to the right (vertical to the runway) then sliding before it came to complete stop?

edu2703 · Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:18 am

aerolimani wrote:
Governor says Aeromexico airliner was hit by wind gust as it left runway just before crashing in northern Mexico.

https://abcnews.go.com/International/wi ... y-56954252

E190 Max Crosswind including gusts for takeoff and Landing is 28kts.

7673mech · Wed Aug 01, 2018 3:15 am

HoboJoe wrote:
That's more than an aborted takeoff. Pilot error

Because you know by looking at a picture?

AR385 · Wed Aug 01, 2018 3:40 am

How would an engine failure/explosion provoke such a loss of control on an airliner? I would say that rather than an engine, it´s the left MLG that broke.

The captain is the most hurt person of all of everyone on board. He is undergoing surgery right now, because he suffered broken cervicals. Apparently his wounds are not life-theatening, but I suppose it´s a very. very. delicate injury.

ual777 · Wed Aug 01, 2018 3:52 am

MSJYOP28Apilot wrote:
If it does turn out to be the result of a RTO after V1, the captain is going to have to justify why he aborted the takeoff when he did. It has to be something pretty serious or extreme post V1 for a pilot to abort instead of continuing the takeoff when you get to that speed due to the risk of an overrun.

I wonder if this could be a case of a thunderstorm outflow boundary quickly changing the wind direction. The headwind or crosswind component quickly turning to a strong tailwind. DGO is a high altitude airport. While it has a 9500ft runway, with altitude and temperature that isnt all that long. Depending on the scenario, I could see a non V1 abort due to a sudden strong shear to a tailwind causing the overrun.

You never abort after V1. It would have to be catastrophically extreme.

At most airlines from 80/100 knots to V1, there is a very short list of things you will abort for.

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