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Begues wrote:They are just trying to follow in the steps of other chinese airports that have been successfully converted into hubs despite being located in poor provinces. Nobody would have bet on Kunming being anywhere near the traffic figures it currently has just 10 years ago, back then the whole hub thing seemed a pipe dream.
I don't think there is enough regional demand even including the whole of the northeast with its 100 million+ inhabitants, but then again we don't know what the chinese economy will look like in 20 years when the hub is planned to be fully up and running.
bzcat wrote:HRB also doens't make any geographic sense as a regional hub for NE Asia.
Why would any Chinese pax want to fly XXX-HRB-ICN for example? If they live south of Yangtze river, there are 4 or 5 hub airports that are better positioned for connection to Korea and Japan. HRB is out of the way.
And no one from North America or Europe will fly to HRB to connect to Japan.
alfa164 wrote:With the growing traffic from the USA to the 'stans, HRB might - might - be able to build itself as a connecting point for traffic to Western China, Bishkek, Almaty, Tashkent, etc.
Right now, most of the travelers I know get there through Western Europe, Turkey, or one of the ME3; a route via Northern China could potentially be a viable competitor. The down side is the time and money it will take to build a critical mass of flights from the Western Hemisphere to Harbin, although Chinese governments and airlines seem nonplussed about spending to gain markets.
c933103 wrote:alfa164 wrote:With the growing traffic from the USA to the 'stans, HRB might - might - be able to build itself as a connecting point for traffic to Western China, Bishkek, Almaty, Tashkent, etc.
Right now, most of the travelers I know get there through Western Europe, Turkey, or one of the ME3; a route via Northern China could potentially be a viable competitor. The down side is the time and money it will take to build a critical mass of flights from the Western Hemisphere to Harbin, although Chinese governments and airlines seem nonplussed about spending to gain markets.
Chinese passengers connect via URC for Central Asia.
But as for intercontinental connection... If even the single SFO-XIY route which provide connection to Northern Interior China failed I don't really see how there'd be enough demand to build up a hub just from connection traffic to western China and Central Asia.
alfa164 wrote:c933103 wrote:alfa164 wrote:With the growing traffic from the USA to the 'stans, HRB might - might - be able to build itself as a connecting point for traffic to Western China, Bishkek, Almaty, Tashkent, etc.
Right now, most of the travelers I know get there through Western Europe, Turkey, or one of the ME3; a route via Northern China could potentially be a viable competitor. The down side is the time and money it will take to build a critical mass of flights from the Western Hemisphere to Harbin, although Chinese governments and airlines seem nonplussed about spending to gain markets.
Chinese passengers connect via URC for Central Asia.
But as for intercontinental connection... If even the single SFO-XIY route which provide connection to Northern Interior China failed I don't really see how there'd be enough demand to build up a hub just from connection traffic to western China and Central Asia.
SFO-XIY was a UA route, expecting business and tourist traffic to fill the plane; XIY was never marketed as a connecting point for onward travel.
Chinese passengers do connect through URC for travel to Central Asia, but where do Western hemisphere travelers connect? Usually through Europe and/or the Middle East; it is those passengers who could benefit if HRB became a sizeable hub.
Of course, my "might" is a very big "might"; there are a plethora of airports wanting to become hubs around the world - particularly in Asia and the Indian Subcontinent, so... you might say "The race is on!".
zakuivcustom wrote:Begues wrote:They are just trying to follow in the steps of other chinese airports that have been successfully converted into hubs despite being located in poor provinces. Nobody would have bet on Kunming being anywhere near the traffic figures it currently has just 10 years ago, back then the whole hub thing seemed a pipe dream.
I don't think there is enough regional demand even including the whole of the northeast with its 100 million+ inhabitants, but then again we don't know what the chinese economy will look like in 20 years when the hub is planned to be fully up and running.
KMG does have geography that helps it, i.e. mountainous terrain in Yunnan means air travel does save tons of time vs ground transport. Yunnan overall also has way more tourism demand (chiefly domestic, with some backpackers mixed in here and there) and KMG serves as a very nice hopping point to places like Lijiang or Jinghong or Dali. Internationally, KMG is located in a region that is growing and has much more economic tie to China overall (SE Asia through the so-call Bamboo Network).
HRB? NE China is a giant rust belt, with an economy comparable to rural Midwest US. Harbin has one and only one thing going for it for tourism - Ice and Snow Festival. While the Ice Festival is VERY worthwhile to go to, it is also highly seasonal. Heilongjiang Province otherwise simply doesn't have much to offer. Its international neighbor, Russian Far East, is just as bad economically.
Trying to turn HRB into some giant TPAC hub (vs PEK) is the same as trying to turn Sapporo into a TPAC hub (vs Tokyo) - the local demand is just not there for long-haul travel.
tphuang wrote:zakuivcustom wrote:Begues wrote:They are just trying to follow in the steps of other chinese airports that have been successfully converted into hubs despite being located in poor provinces. Nobody would have bet on Kunming being anywhere near the traffic figures it currently has just 10 years ago, back then the whole hub thing seemed a pipe dream.
I don't think there is enough regional demand even including the whole of the northeast with its 100 million+ inhabitants, but then again we don't know what the chinese economy will look like in 20 years when the hub is planned to be fully up and running.
KMG does have geography that helps it, i.e. mountainous terrain in Yunnan means air travel does save tons of time vs ground transport. Yunnan overall also has way more tourism demand (chiefly domestic, with some backpackers mixed in here and there) and KMG serves as a very nice hopping point to places like Lijiang or Jinghong or Dali. Internationally, KMG is located in a region that is growing and has much more economic tie to China overall (SE Asia through the so-call Bamboo Network).
HRB? NE China is a giant rust belt, with an economy comparable to rural Midwest US. Harbin has one and only one thing going for it for tourism - Ice and Snow Festival. While the Ice Festival is VERY worthwhile to go to, it is also highly seasonal. Heilongjiang Province otherwise simply doesn't have much to offer. Its international neighbor, Russian Far East, is just as bad economically.
Trying to turn HRB into some giant TPAC hub (vs PEK) is the same as trying to turn Sapporo into a TPAC hub (vs Tokyo) - the local demand is just not there for long-haul travel.
Sapporo has far greater tourism than harbin. Outside of Tokyo Kyoto region, Sapporo has to be one of the top Japanese tourism regions for foreigners. Harbin on the other hand. Nobody wants to go there.
Phosphorus wrote:If you look at the map, one thing that immediately comes to mind is that Asian Russia is next door. And Asian Russia suffers from very scarce air service -- nearest connection airport is Novosibirsk, but plenty of connections between points in Asian Russia are possible only via Moscow -- and that's a long way.
I don't know the current bilateral air treaty between Russia and China, but if Harbin gets enough flights into Russia, and allows easy visa-free international-to-international connections, they could really become the gateway of Asian Russia to the world -- and actually better connect locations in Asian Russia between themselves.
TWA1985 wrote:Yeah, just what ORD (and the rest of the US) needs ... another carrier to China. *Rolls Eyes*