Updated: Bolsonaro Approved Boeing/Embraer Commercial Aircraft Takeover

qf789 · Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:05 am

In breaking news at Farnborough Boeing and Embraer have announced a merger

More to follow

https://twitter.com/FlightBreaking/stat ... 1768788993

https://twitter.com/airlivenet/status/1 ... 1475825664

Samrnpage · Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:05 am

The most important question, does E2 orders go in the Boeing thread now ?

jfklganyc · Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:10 am

Lot happening very quickly that will once again leave 2 major competitors in the Western world.

Boeing is at Airbus’ heels though. Best of luck to all involved

moa999 · Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:14 am

Not until it's approved by shareholders and regulators

Flyglobal · Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:46 am

qf789 wrote:
In breaking news at Farnborough Boeing and Embraer have announced a merger

More to follow

https://twitter.com/FlightBreaking/stat ... 1768788993

https://twitter.com/airlivenet/status/1 ... 1475825664

So to understand exactly:
1) They announce the plan to do a Merger - subject to a contract and required approvals based on a MoU or LOI
2) Already merged (Kind of secretly) and approved?

It sounds different to previous News, but probably it isn't.

I still believe that the formal Merger to complete requires 1 more year time, but It will happen anyways.

Other opinions?

Flyglobal

neomax · Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:47 am

So serious question, what is gonna be the new name of Embraer planes? B190?

rj777 · Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:22 pm

Did Boeing & Embraer reps actually say the word "merger"?

pdp · Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:24 pm

Makes sense. With the smallest members of the A320neo and the 737 MAX family not selling perhaps as well as hoped, Boeing and Airbus needed to do something to keep a foot in that market. Airbus has the C Series, and now Boeing has the E2 associated with it.

Sad that's its becoming a duopoly again, but that's the free market!

planecane · Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:24 pm

Is this anything more than a press conference about the JV MOU that was news on July 5th?

dtw2hyd · Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:34 pm

Congratulations Boeing.

moa999 · Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:37 pm

pdp wrote:
Sad that's its becoming a duopoly again, but that's the free market!

We still have the Chinese and Russians... One day

c933103 · Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:42 pm

"The Embraer brand is strong and we want to continue to built on that" - Boeing CEO #FIA18 #BoeingFIA

Is it just wordplay or?

BREECH · Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:07 pm

qf789 wrote:
In breaking news at Farnborough Boeing and Embraer have announced a merger

More to follow

https://twitter.com/FlightBreaking/stat ... 1768788993

https://twitter.com/airlivenet/status/1 ... 1475825664

Nothing on either company's website.

AirCal737 · Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:08 pm

Will we see a rebranding of the E-jets? Afterall they rebranded the MD-95 as 717 a few decades ago.

BREECH · Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:09 pm

Nothing anywhere except those two twitters. Someone wanted to improve their account's popularity?

downdata · Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:09 pm

Boeing 616

Momo1435 · Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:19 pm

planecane wrote:
Is this anything more than a press conference about the JV MOU that was news on July 5th?

This, nothing more, nothing less.

EvanWSFO · Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:21 pm

AirCal737 wrote:
Will we see a rebranding of the E-jets? Afterall they rebranded the MD-95 as 717 a few decades ago.

775? 795?

NZ321 · Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:35 pm

How will they get this through....? Lots of regulatory stuff before this can be signed off surely.

flymia · Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:37 pm

Have we not known about this for months now?

wakymike · Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:56 pm

Speaking of duopoly, I think most here forget that Airbus only took over the Cseries-program from Bombardier. The regionaljet-program is still alive and i'm pretty sure sooner or later Bombardier will announce a new generation of the CRJ in the 80-100 seater category.

smokeybandit · Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:57 pm

Boeing 0.747

Etheereal · Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:04 pm

NZ321 wrote:
How will they get this through....? Lots of regulatory stuff before this can be signed off surely.

Nothing good lobbies can get thru.

rj777 · Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:07 pm

I have a feeling they wouldn't have announced this if they weren't confident thy could get it through all the regulatory hurdles (if they haven't already)

NZ321 · Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:56 pm

Etheereal wrote:
NZ321 wrote:
How will they get this through....? Lots of regulatory stuff before this can be signed off surely.

Nothing good lobbies can get thru.

Can or Can't get through?

TVNWZ · Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:58 pm

Hmmm. Nothing on the biz wires yet. Getting suspicious that this is just a reiteration and discussion of what has been announced

Momo1435 · Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:05 pm

TVNWZ wrote:
Hmmm. Nothing on the biz wires yet. Getting suspicious that this is just a reiteration and discussion of what has been announced

That's what it is, Boeing and Embraer did press event on the recently annoinces joint venture where they will form 1 seperate company for the commercial aircraft division of Embraer.

CALAV8R · Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:06 pm

Any Boeing media room updates on this?

DoctorVenkman · Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:08 pm

TVNWZ wrote:
Hmmm. Nothing on the biz wires yet. Getting suspicious that this is just a reiteration and discussion of what has been announced

Yes agreed. If this were an acquisition/merger then it would be all over the news. Perhaps the thread title should be changed?

Samrnpage · Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:19 pm

cheapgreek wrote:
MrBren wrote:
Again a desperate move from Boeing.

Why desperate? It allows Boeing to have a complete line of regional and mainline planes, E-175 to 747-8. The E2 planes already have a wide customer base worldwide and when the E series need replacement. the E2's will be the first choice of many carriers. Good move by Boeing.

What E2 wide customer base?

BoeingGuy · Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:31 pm

MrBren wrote:
Again a desperate move from Boeing.

Nice intelligent post. What rationale do you have to make such a statement?

BoeingGuy · Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:32 pm

DoctorVenkman wrote:
TVNWZ wrote:
Hmmm. Nothing on the biz wires yet. Getting suspicious that this is just a reiteration and discussion of what has been announced

Yes agreed. If this were an acquisition/merger then it would be all over the news. Perhaps the thread title should be changed?

Agree. This is an inaccurate thread. Nothing in the Seattle Times either.

ojjunior · Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:47 pm

Well, might be nothing on their websites but last week Embraer's CEO Paulo Cesar Silva already addressed to his employees talking about who's gonna be "transferred"to Boeing hands and the Unions folks are already on fire due this:
https://g1.globo.com/sp/vale-do-paraiba ... eing.ghtml
Sorry, Portuguese only.
If it is not sure of something, I do not know what it is.

edu2703 · Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:50 pm

Thread title is wrong. There was no mention of the word 'merger' at all. Probably said by a journalist who had no previous knowledge about the Embraer-Boeing deal.

The correct term is Joint Venture. A new company will be created, which will encompass Embraer's commercial division. 80% of this new company will belong to Boeing and Embraer will have the remaining 20%.

It's almost certain that the new company will not only have Embraer's commercial aircrafts in its portfolio, judging by the official statement.

There will also be another joint venture that will encompass Embraer's military division.

And all this is still on initial stage, since it depends on several agreements and permissions of Brazilian government. Boeing is making every effort to finalize the deal ASAP, preventing the next Brazilian president from interfering in the negotiations.

Etheereal · Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:55 pm

NZ321 wrote:
Etheereal wrote:
NZ321 wrote:
How will they get this through....? Lots of regulatory stuff before this can be signed off surely.

Nothing good lobbies can get thru.

Can or Can't get through?

my bad, meant cant.

It will happen, they'll complain a bit, try to make themselves look concerned, but at the end of the day they'll merge.

edu2703 · Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:58 pm

ojjunior wrote:
Well, might be nothing on their websites but last week Embraer's CEO Paulo Cesar Silva already addressed to his employees talking about who's gonna be "transferred"to Boeing hands and the Unions folks are already on fire due this:
https://g1.globo.com/sp/vale-do-paraiba ... eing.ghtml
Sorry, Portuguese only.
If it is not sure of something, I do not know what it is.

The article mentions that employees will be transferred to the new company that will created by the Joint Venture, which makes sense to me. Boeing will have 80% of this new company, as I said earlier.

trpmb6 · Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:06 pm

80% of the JV held by Boeing is more significant than Airbus holding Cseries in my opinion. This gives Boeing access to all of Embraer's products except their military products (as required by Brazilian government).

Bombardier still maintains full control of their regional jet business as noted earlier.

stl07 · Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:14 pm

moa999 wrote:
pdp wrote:
Sad that's its becoming a duopoly again, but that's the free market!

We still have the Chinese and Russians... One day

And Mitsubishi

edu2703 · Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:15 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
80% of the JV held by Boeing is more significant than Airbus holding Cseries in my opinion. This gives Boeing access to all of Embraer's products except their military products (as required by Brazilian government).

Bombardier still maintains full control of their regional jet business as noted earlier.

Embraer will also have full control of its executive division, which encompass all Embraer business jets.

trpmb6 · Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:20 pm

edu2703 wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
80% of the JV held by Boeing is more significant than Airbus holding Cseries in my opinion. This gives Boeing access to all of Embraer's products except their military products (as required by Brazilian government).

Bombardier still maintains full control of their regional jet business as noted earlier.

Embraer will also have full control of its executive division, which encompass all Embraer business jets.

I guess maybe we need to just write out which models are included where to show the clear cutoff?

edu2703 · Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:30 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
edu2703 wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
80% of the JV held by Boeing is more significant than Airbus holding Cseries in my opinion. This gives Boeing access to all of Embraer's products except their military products (as required by Brazilian government).

Bombardier still maintains full control of their regional jet business as noted earlier.

Embraer will also have full control of its executive division, which encompass all Embraer business jets.

I guess maybe we need to just write out which models are included where to show the clear cutoff?

Embraer has four divisions

Commercial: ERJ-145 XR, E-Jets E1, E-Jets E2
Defense & Security (a.k.a. Military): A-29 Super Tucano, KC-390
Executive: Legacy 650E, Legacy 450, Legacy 500, Phenom 100EV, Pnenom 300E
Agricultural: EMB-200 Ipanema

Joint-ventures would encompass only the commercial and Defense & Security divisions.

BREECH · Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:53 pm

I think it's time to delete this. It's obviously a hoax. And maybe we should be more diligent before dragging every piece of trash we happen to come across to the forum?

TranscendZac · Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:03 pm

neomax wrote:
So serious question, what is gonna be the new name of Embraer planes? B190?

This starts the new 800 series of Boeing planes. :duck:

This is somewhat expected and a smar move by Boeing to more effectively compete with Airbus, though, Embaer and Boeing have nothing to compete with the A220-300 which I believe will be a major source of pain for Boeing sales.

F27500 · Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:26 pm

moa999 wrote:
pdp wrote:
Sad that's its becoming a duopoly again, but that's the free market!

We still have the Chinese and Russians... One day

Hahahahaha .. thank you for that laugh ... best one I've had all day!

BoeingGuy · Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:42 pm

BREECH wrote:
I think it's time to delete this. It's obviously a hoax. And maybe we should be more diligent before dragging every piece of trash we happen to come across to the forum?

I agree this is bogus. Nothing in the Boeing News Clips either. Nothing that hasn’t already been discussed. Thread should be locked. It’s simply not factually accurate.

LockheedBBD · Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:10 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
80% of the JV held by Boeing is more significant than Airbus holding Cseries in my opinion. This gives Boeing access to all of Embraer's products except their military products (as required by Brazilian government).

Bombardier still maintains full control of their regional jet business as noted earlier.

Bombardier won't be able to compete with Boeing in the regional jet arena after Boeing acquires the E-Jet family. Bombardier has a turboprop which Boeing will not have, but Bombardier also faces stiff competition from ATR. I'm expecting Bombardier to fully exit the commercial aircraft scene within the next two years.

Jayafe · Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:12 pm

LockheedBBD wrote:
...I'm expecting Bombardier to fully exit the commercial aircraft scene within the next two years.

I hope that's a joke, or a statement as brave as your "Embraer to still compete for the JetBlue order, wait for it" the day before the A220 order was announced. Happy to see a trend of poor aiming.

I'm expecting the 787 to be abandoned within the next two years, but I guess none of us will get it

trpmb6 · Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:26 pm

Bombardier (specifically aircraft segment) and Embraer have both been on shaky ground in recent years. This is why mergers and joint ventures are even being discussed. Both need cash infusions.

I don't think Bombardier is going anywhere. But I'm kind of coming at this from a biased position where I'd like to see them make another investment at LearJet.

patineta89 · Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:42 pm

wakymike wrote:
Speaking of duopoly, I think most here forget that Airbus only took over the Cseries-program from Bombardier. The regionaljet-program is still alive and i'm pretty sure sooner or later Bombardier will announce a new generation of the CRJ in the 80-100 seater category.

Just to have Boeing complain again of how so unfair it is for those CRJs to be produced with subsidies and have Airbus purchase the whole thing.

Erebus · Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:19 pm

patineta89 wrote:
Just to have Boeing complain again of how so unfair it is for those CRJs to be produced with subsidies and have Airbus purchase the whole thing.

...for $1.

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