hoya wrote:

If AS is making cutbacks in some key Hawaii markets, how does WN think it will fare? Sure, it'll have more connecting traffic in SJC and OAK, but if AS is having trouble, this won't be easy for WN (if and when they finally get ETOPS approval).

jagraham wrote:

Thanks again for all this great work Enilria. DL is reducing flights to LHR from BOS and DTW, but LHR is the one airport I can't see a slot sitting empty. Are there any DL adds to LHR somewhere that I missed?

phxtravelboy wrote:

So GRR, PVD, and BUF get nonstop service to MIA yet AA REFUSES to add MKE. Their service from MKE is really awful. They don't fly to the MIA or DCA hubs where as they fly to both of those hubs from many other cities that are smaller. They also refuse to fly to LAX from MKE. I really do not understand AA's philosophy at all.

phxtravelboy wrote:

So GRR, PVD, and BUF get nonstop service to MIA yet AA REFUSES to add MKE. Their service from MKE is really awful. They don't fly to the MIA or DCA hubs where as they fly to both of those hubs from many other cities that are smaller. They also refuse to fly to LAX from MKE. I really do not understand AA's philosophy at all.

TropicalSky wrote:

AA adding Lga-Nas seems odd with both Delta & Jetblue in the market plus Delta recently upgrade to 2x daily to match JetBlue out of JFK......I don't see AA sticking it out long...

phxtravelboy wrote:

So GRR, PVD, and BUF get nonstop service to MIA yet AA REFUSES to add MKE. Their service from MKE is really awful. They don't fly to the MIA or DCA hubs where as they fly to both of those hubs from many other cities that are smaller. They also refuse to fly to LAX from MKE. I really do not understand AA's philosophy at all.

clrd4t8koff wrote:

jagraham wrote:

Thanks again for all this great work Enilria. DL is reducing flights to LHR from BOS and DTW, but LHR is the one airport I can't see a slot sitting empty. Are there any DL adds to LHR somewhere that I missed?

DL is reducing service by 1 flight per week. Hardy slot sitting empty.

phxtravelboy wrote:

So GRR, PVD, and BUF get nonstop service to MIA yet AA REFUSES to add MKE. Their service from MKE is really awful. They don't fly to the MIA or DCA hubs where as they fly to both of those hubs from many other cities that are smaller. They also refuse to fly to LAX from MKE. I really do not understand AA's philosophy at all.

ericm2031 wrote:

phxtravelboy wrote:

So GRR, PVD, and BUF get nonstop service to MIA yet AA REFUSES to add MKE. Their service from MKE is really awful. They don't fly to the MIA or DCA hubs where as they fly to both of those hubs from many other cities that are smaller. They also refuse to fly to LAX from MKE. I really do not understand AA's philosophy at all.

Refuses is a very strong word. PHX, DFW, CLT, ORD, PHL is still substantial. AA has very limited resources in LAX and has much higher priorities than MKE. WN is dominant in MKE which limits how much market is left for AA (or other carriers) to add.

Not sure why you make it sound like AA is out of their minds for their decisions on MKE when it is perfectly reasonable.

chepos wrote:

phxtravelboy wrote:

So GRR, PVD, and BUF get nonstop service to MIA yet AA REFUSES to add MKE. Their service from MKE is really awful. They don't fly to the MIA or DCA hubs where as they fly to both of those hubs from many other cities that are smaller. They also refuse to fly to LAX from MKE. I really do not understand AA's philosophy at all.

They don’t see the value in the market, what traffic is there really to MIA and connections? Many upper midwestemers head to Mexico on holiday (DFW takes care of that ) and the Caribbean traffic (mostly to Jamaica and the DR,all inclusive types) can be handled via ORD/DFW/CLT. Been to MKE many times, it is a small city eclipsed by Chicago, they seem to have good amount of air service for its size.

phxtravelboy wrote:

chepos wrote:

phxtravelboy wrote:

So GRR, PVD, and BUF get nonstop service to MIA yet AA REFUSES to add MKE. Their service from MKE is really awful. They don't fly to the MIA or DCA hubs where as they fly to both of those hubs from many other cities that are smaller. They also refuse to fly to LAX from MKE. I really do not understand AA's philosophy at all.

They don’t see the value in the market, what traffic is there really to MIA and connections? Many upper midwestemers head to Mexico on holiday (DFW takes care of that ) and the Caribbean traffic (mostly to Jamaica and the DR,all inclusive types) can be handled via ORD/DFW/CLT. Been to MKE many times, it is a small city eclipsed by Chicago, they seem to have good amount of air service for its size.

Well using your argument AA shouldn't fly to any city then from MIA that also has service to the DFW/CLT/ORD hubs. What a dumb statement. The MIA hub offers many more connection opportunities than the other hubs do. Again, AA believes GRR can support MIA service but MKE can't? Simply amazing. MKE metro is larger than the metros of GRR/BUF/PVD/SDF among others, that all have nonstop service to MIA. MKE isn't a small city; of course it's smaller than the 3rd largest metro area in the country 80 miles down the road, but it's not a small city as you call it.

wedgetail737 wrote:

I think Air China's retreat from the SJC-PVG market is quite a blow to SJC, since SJC prided itself on obtaining overseas service. When I was there last time, the passenger count looked pretty dismal...kind of like BA's passenger count at OAK. Maybe HNA might try it and do a better job at it.

AirFiero wrote:

wedgetail737 wrote:

I think Air China's retreat from the SJC-PVG market is quite a blow to SJC, since SJC prided itself on obtaining overseas service. When I was there last time, the passenger count looked pretty dismal...kind of like BA's passenger count at OAK. Maybe HNA might try it and do a better job at it.

Yes, this is very disappointing. Isn’t Shanghai a major tech center? And how many nonstops are there from SFO? We couldn’t pull enough passengers for 3 day a week flights?

AirFiero wrote:

wedgetail737 wrote:

I think Air China's retreat from the SJC-PVG market is quite a blow to SJC, since SJC prided itself on obtaining overseas service. When I was there last time, the passenger count looked pretty dismal...kind of like BA's passenger count at OAK. Maybe HNA might try it and do a better job at it.

Yes, this is very disappointing. Isn’t Shanghai a major tech center? And how many nonstops are there from SFO? We couldn’t pull enough passengers for 3 day a week flights?

phxtravelboy wrote:

chepos wrote:

phxtravelboy wrote:

So GRR, PVD, and BUF get nonstop service to MIA yet AA REFUSES to add MKE. Their service from MKE is really awful. They don't fly to the MIA or DCA hubs where as they fly to both of those hubs from many other cities that are smaller. They also refuse to fly to LAX from MKE. I really do not understand AA's philosophy at all.

They don’t see the value in the market, what traffic is there really to MIA and connections? Many upper midwestemers head to Mexico on holiday (DFW takes care of that ) and the Caribbean traffic (mostly to Jamaica and the DR,all inclusive types) can be handled via ORD/DFW/CLT. Been to MKE many times, it is a small city eclipsed by Chicago, they seem to have good amount of air service for its size.

Well using your argument AA shouldn't fly to any city then from MIA that also has service to the DFW/CLT/ORD hubs. What a dumb statement. The MIA hub offers many more connection opportunities than the other hubs do. Again, AA believes GRR can support MIA service but MKE can't? Simply amazing. MKE metro is larger than the metros of GRR/BUF/PVD/SDF among others, that all have nonstop service to MIA. MKE isn't a small city; of course it's smaller than the 3rd largest metro area in the country 80 miles down the road, but it's not a small city as you call it.

phxtravelboy wrote:

So GRR, PVD, and BUF get nonstop service to MIA yet AA REFUSES to add MKE. Their service from MKE is really awful. They don't fly to the MIA or DCA hubs where as they fly to both of those hubs from many other cities that are smaller. They also refuse to fly to LAX from MKE. I really do not understand AA's philosophy at all.

legacyins wrote:

AirFiero wrote:

wedgetail737 wrote:

I think Air China's retreat from the SJC-PVG market is quite a blow to SJC, since SJC prided itself on obtaining overseas service. When I was there last time, the passenger count looked pretty dismal...kind of like BA's passenger count at OAK. Maybe HNA might try it and do a better job at it.

Yes, this is very disappointing. Isn’t Shanghai a major tech center? And how many nonstops are there from SFO? We couldn’t pull enough passengers for 3 day a week flights?

The writing on the wall was with this flight. They started service with 5 weekly and then 3 weekly and finally 2 weekly.

BTW: SFO has 3 daily SFO-PVG flights .

AirFiero wrote:

legacyins wrote:

AirFiero wrote:

Yes, this is very disappointing. Isn’t Shanghai a major tech center? And how many nonstops are there from SFO? We couldn’t pull enough passengers for 3 day a week flights?

The writing on the wall was with this flight. They started service with 5 weekly and then 3 weekly and finally 2 weekly.

BTW: SFO has 3 daily SFO-PVG flights .

Exactly. THREE daily flights, but all those people are going to/from SFO, no business people going to the South Bay and Silicon Valley? That’s difficult to believe.

phxtravelboy wrote:

ericm2031 wrote:

phxtravelboy wrote:

So GRR, PVD, and BUF get nonstop service to MIA yet AA REFUSES to add MKE. Their service from MKE is really awful. They don't fly to the MIA or DCA hubs where as they fly to both of those hubs from many other cities that are smaller. They also refuse to fly to LAX from MKE. I really do not understand AA's philosophy at all.

Refuses is a very strong word. PHX, DFW, CLT, ORD, PHL is still substantial. AA has very limited resources in LAX and has much higher priorities than MKE. WN is dominant in MKE which limits how much market is left for AA (or other carriers) to add.

Not sure why you make it sound like AA is out of their minds for their decisions on MKE when it is perfectly reasonable.

AA's service from MKE is basically the absolute bare minimum. CLT/PHL are nothing but regional jets whereas other similiar cities such as MCI or IND have mainline service; ORD is only flown 4 times per day on 50 seat CRJs versus UA who has roughly 10 per day and even flies mainline at times. From the AA DCA hub they serve every single top 50 market from DCA nonstop except for MKE and HOU. If GRR, SDF, OMA can all support service to MIA surely MKE, a much larger market, can as well.

legacyins wrote:

AirFiero wrote:

legacyins wrote:

The writing on the wall was with this flight. They started service with 5 weekly and then 3 weekly and finally 2 weekly.

BTW: SFO has 3 daily SFO-PVG flights .

Exactly. THREE daily flights, but all those people are going to/from SFO, no business people going to the South Bay and Silicon Valley? That’s difficult to believe.

Of course there are people on the SFO flight going to various parts of the Bay Area. Why are they not taking the CA flight out of SJC? No idea but I can guess there are United fans and scheduling comes into play somewhat. For the past year, CA has been advertising on the radio and print media regarding their SJC flight. I am sure their sales department was out trying to get contracts from various companies. In the end , it did not work out.

ucdtim17 wrote:

SFO has * San Francisco * name recognition (despite not actually being in or near the city.

jagraham wrote:

Thanks again for all this great work Enilria. DL is reducing flights to LHR from BOS and DTW, but LHR is the one airport I can't see a slot sitting empty. Are there any DL adds to LHR somewhere that I missed?

MIflyer12 wrote:

phxtravelboy wrote:

ericm2031 wrote:

Refuses is a very strong word. PHX, DFW, CLT, ORD, PHL is still substantial. AA has very limited resources in LAX and has much higher priorities than MKE. WN is dominant in MKE which limits how much market is left for AA (or other carriers) to add.

Not sure why you make it sound like AA is out of their minds for their decisions on MKE when it is perfectly reasonable.

AA's service from MKE is basically the absolute bare minimum. CLT/PHL are nothing but regional jets whereas other similiar cities such as MCI or IND have mainline service; ORD is only flown 4 times per day on 50 seat CRJs versus UA who has roughly 10 per day and even flies mainline at times. From the AA DCA hub they serve every single top 50 market from DCA nonstop except for MKE and HOU. If GRR, SDF, OMA can all support service to MIA surely MKE, a much larger market, can as well.

I can infer AA's MKE strategy: Let them drive to ORD. It's not a strategy without merits.

All the airports you list with 'better' AA service aren't proximate to AA hubs. Don't compare MKE to GRR and SDF - compare it to TUS or PBI.

BayAreaFan0 wrote:

ucdtim17 wrote:

SFO has * San Francisco * name recognition (despite not actually being in or near the city.

What? SFO is owned and policed by the City and County of San Francisco and has a San Francisco address although it is located in San Mateo County. The airport if 5.9 miles from the city border. How is that not "near the city"?!?

ucdtim17 wrote:

BayAreaFan0 wrote:

ucdtim17 wrote:

SFO has * San Francisco * name recognition (despite not actually being in or near the city.

What? SFO is owned and policed by the City and County of San Francisco and has a San Francisco address although it is located in San Mateo County. The airport if 5.9 miles from the city border. How is that not "near the city"?!?

Most people aren’t going to the city border. It’s 15 miles to downtown, which is generally a 30+ minute trip car or train. It’s closer to the CBD than many airports and farther than others.

enilria wrote:

So, on the one hand you have B6 which is a big believer of flying to all the airports near its "hubs" as a way to build mind-share with customers,

phluser wrote:

enilria wrote:

So, on the one hand you have B6 which is a big believer of flying to all the airports near its "hubs" as a way to build mind-share with customers,

B6 also doesn't fly into MHT, ISP and MIA. Those are airports B6 likely wishes it could use an eraser (at least out of the minds of passengers who might be using WN or in the case of MIA - other carriers)

phxtravelboy wrote:

So GRR, PVD, and BUF get nonstop service to MIA yet AA REFUSES to add MKE. Their service from MKE is really awful. They don't fly to the MIA or DCA hubs where as they fly to both of those hubs from many other cities that are smaller. They also refuse to fly to LAX from MKE. I really do not understand AA's philosophy at all.

legacyins wrote:

AirFiero wrote:

legacyins wrote:

The writing on the wall was with this flight. They started service with 5 weekly and then 3 weekly and finally 2 weekly.

BTW: SFO has 3 daily SFO-PVG flights .

Exactly. THREE daily flights, but all those people are going to/from SFO, no business people going to the South Bay and Silicon Valley? That’s difficult to believe.

Of course there are people on the SFO flight going to various parts of the Bay Area. Why are they not taking the CA flight out of SJC? No idea but I can guess there are United fans and scheduling comes into play somewhat. For the past year, CA has been advertising on the radio and print media regarding their SJC flight. I am sure their sales department was out trying to get contracts from various companies. In the end , it did not work out.

ucdtim17 wrote:

legacyins wrote:

AirFiero wrote:

Exactly. THREE daily flights, but all those people are going to/from SFO, no business people going to the South Bay and Silicon Valley? That’s difficult to believe.

Of course there are people on the SFO flight going to various parts of the Bay Area. Why are they not taking the CA flight out of SJC? No idea but I can guess there are United fans and scheduling comes into play somewhat. For the past year, CA has been advertising on the radio and print media regarding their SJC flight. I am sure their sales department was out trying to get contracts from various companies. In the end , it did not work out.

Same story for any route out of OAK/SJC that they share with SFO. SFO has * San Francisco * name recognition (despite not actually being in or near the city) + virtuous cycle of having more service to begin with. People fly there because that's where the flights are and airlines add flights there because that's where the business is.

phxtravelboy wrote:

chepos wrote:

phxtravelboy wrote:

So GRR, PVD, and BUF get nonstop service to MIA yet AA REFUSES to add MKE. Their service from MKE is really awful. They don't fly to the MIA or DCA hubs where as they fly to both of those hubs from many other cities that are smaller. They also refuse to fly to LAX from MKE. I really do not understand AA's philosophy at all.

They don’t see the value in the market, what traffic is there really to MIA and connections? Many upper midwestemers head to Mexico on holiday (DFW takes care of that ) and the Caribbean traffic (mostly to Jamaica and the DR,all inclusive types) can be handled via ORD/DFW/CLT. Been to MKE many times, it is a small city eclipsed by Chicago, they seem to have good amount of air service for its size.

Well using your argument AA shouldn't fly to any city then from MIA that also has service to the DFW/CLT/ORD hubs. What a dumb statement. The MIA hub offers many more connection opportunities than the other hubs do. Again, AA believes GRR can support MIA service but MKE can't? Simply amazing. MKE metro is larger than the metros of GRR/BUF/PVD/SDF among others, that all have nonstop service to MIA. MKE isn't a small city; of course it's smaller than the 3rd largest metro area in the country 80 miles down the road, but it's not a small city as you call it.

AirFiero wrote:

legacyins wrote:

AirFiero wrote:

Exactly. THREE daily flights, but all those people are going to/from SFO, no business people going to the South Bay and Silicon Valley? That’s difficult to believe.

Of course there are people on the SFO flight going to various parts of the Bay Area. Why are they not taking the CA flight out of SJC? No idea but I can guess there are United fans and scheduling comes into play somewhat. For the past year, CA has been advertising on the radio and print media regarding their SJC flight. I am sure their sales department was out trying to get contracts from various companies. In the end , it did not work out.

Are all three of those flights UA?

jetero wrote:

Has AA ever served an airport other than DFW from HOU?

DL, I know, served, CVG.

SurfandSnow wrote:

jetero wrote:

Has AA ever served an airport other than DFW from HOU?

DL, I know, served, CVG.

Call me crazy, but I seem to recall AA doing AUS-HOU-LGA several years ago. Obviously HOU was a hassle-free yet necessary stop given the LGA perimeter restriction.

legacyins wrote:

The writing on the wall was with this flight. They started service with 5 weekly and then 3 weekly and finally 2 weekly.

legacyins wrote:

AirFiero wrote:

legacyins wrote:

Of course there are people on the SFO flight going to various parts of the Bay Area. Why are they not taking the CA flight out of SJC? No idea but I can guess there are United fans and scheduling comes into play somewhat. For the past year, CA has been advertising on the radio and print media regarding their SJC flight. I am sure their sales department was out trying to get contracts from various companies. In the end , it did not work out.

Are all three of those flights UA?

No. 2 daily by UA and 1 daily from MU. Another reason these flights work is because of the connections. UA feeds these flights from throughout the Country and MU use AS and DL as their connection partners.

AirFiero wrote:

legacyins wrote:

AirFiero wrote:

Are all three of those flights UA?

No. 2 daily by UA and 1 daily from MU. Another reason these flights work is because of the connections. UA feeds these flights from throughout the Country and MU use AS and DL as their connection partners.

Maybe it was just flown by the wrong airline? AS has a focus city at SJC. If an airline could connect with AS, it could be marketed for connections.

BoeingGuy wrote:

AirFiero wrote:

legacyins wrote:

No. 2 daily by UA and 1 daily from MU. Another reason these flights work is because of the connections. UA feeds these flights from throughout the Country and MU use AS and DL as their connection partners.

Maybe it was just flown by the wrong airline? AS has a focus city at SJC. If an airline could connect with AS, it could be marketed for connections.

I’d like to see HU pick up SJC-PVG. Are they able to? How do the slots work?

enilria wrote:

It is confirmed that CA has dropped SJC-PVG.
https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/07/17/ ... zon-adobe/

AirFiero wrote:

enilria wrote:

It is confirmed that CA has dropped SJC-PVG.
https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/07/17/ ... zon-adobe/

From the article...

“The reduced number of aircraft available arising from the maintenance of its Dreamliner fleet” was the primary reason Air China offered for its abrupt cancellation of the service.

legacyins wrote:

AirFiero wrote:

enilria wrote:

It is confirmed that CA has dropped SJC-PVG.
https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/07/17/ ... zon-adobe/

From the article...

“The reduced number of aircraft available arising from the maintenance of its Dreamliner fleet” was the primary reason Air China offered for its abrupt cancellation of the service.

I would not read too much into that. CA has ~30 A330-200 ( which are used in the SJC route 3-2 times per week) and 14 787s. They only need 1 aircraft for the SJC flight.

AirFiero wrote:

legacyins wrote:

AirFiero wrote:

From the article...

“The reduced number of aircraft available arising from the maintenance of its Dreamliner fleet” was the primary reason Air China offered for its abrupt cancellation of the service.

I would not read too much into that. CA has ~30 A330-200 ( which are used in the SJC route 3-2 times per week) and 14 787s. They only need 1 aircraft for the SJC flight.

I’m not. It’s a possibility. We know the LHR route is doing ok, but is getting sporadic service due to the 787 engine issues. Anyway, why wouldn’t they just say the load factor is the reason?

jagraham wrote:

Thanks again for all this great work Enilria. DL is reducing flights to LHR from BOS and DTW, but LHR is the one airport I can't see a slot sitting empty. Are there any DL adds to LHR somewhere that I missed?

enilria wrote:

BTW, I'm anticipating an update to the format of this report next week that will add prior year departure comparison throughout.