Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Other Manufacturers/Engine Order Thread

qf789 · Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:58 pm

Welcome to the Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Other Manufacturers/Engine Order Thread

For all announcements on Other Manufacturers and Engine orders, commitments, LOI's, etc please discuss below. For any discussion points that are not related to this thread, please use the relevant order thread or if unrelated to orders please use the Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Picture and General Discussion Thread, refer to viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1398847

trpmb6 · Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:24 pm

I am of the opinion that Embraer orders should be discussed here and NOT in the Boeing thread at this time.

Sooner787 · Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:39 pm

I would like to hear an update from RR regarding their 787 Trent engine repairs

M564038 · Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:49 pm

Why?? That is just untidy.
Airbus+cseries and Boeing+Embraer are the interesting duopoly to watch, and hiding the Emb stuff here is just confusing.

trpmb6 wrote:
I am of the opinion that Embraer orders should be discussed here and NOT in the Boeing thread at this time.

trpmb6 · Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:43 pm

Because they technically aren't merged yet.

Edit: I really don't think this is complicated.

M564038 · Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:27 pm

That is not a reason. That is just a meaningless technicality.

trpmb6 wrote:
Because they technically aren't merged yet.

Edit: I really don't think this is complicated.

klkla · Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:10 pm

Embraer orders obviously belong here. The Boeing/Embraer tie-up is only a 'non-binding commitment' at this point.

edu2703 · Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:24 am

Boeing-Embraer is not a done deal yet.

So, Embraer stuff should be discussed here and Boeing stuff discussed on the Boeing thread.

eamondzhang · Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:05 am

M564038 wrote:
That is not a reason. That is just a meaningless technicality.

trpmb6 wrote:
Because they technically aren't merged yet.

Edit: I really don't think this is complicated.

Then what else will you put into? Embraer and Boeing is not even in a binding JV yet, let alone any mergers that you have purposed but not realised.

Embraer definitely belongs here, as is I believe other Bombardier models (other than CS/A220).

Michael

Flying-Tiger · Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:30 pm

ATR has started early with its annoucements:

EWA Air for 2x ATR 72-600 (MoU)
Drukair for 1x ATR42-600 (firm)
Aurigny for 3x ATR72-600 (LoI)
Air Saint-Pierre for 1x ATR42-600 (MoU)
Air Botswana for 2x ATR72-600 (firm)
Italy Guardia di Finanza for 1x ATR72-600MP

atcsundevil · Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:44 pm

Just as a reminder, this thread is for confirmed news of orders, commitments, and LOIs only. Speculation belongs in other threads. Since ATR has already begun making announcements, this thread won't be locked like the others, but please keep this thread to discussion of actual orders, not rumors/speculation/hopes/dreams.

✈️ atcsundevil

Samrnpage · Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:09 pm

Flying-Tiger wrote:
ATR has started early with its annoucements:

EWA Air for 2x ATR 72-600 (MoU)
Drukair for 1x ATR42-600 (firm)
Aurigny for 3x ATR72-600 (LoI)
Air Saint-Pierre for 1x ATR42-600 (MoU)
Air Botswana for 2x ATR72-600 (firm)
Italy Guardia di Finanza for 1x ATR72-600MP

ATR just nip and pick orders , its brilliant business.

vfw614 · Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:09 pm

Auriginy and Druk Air orders are for the Clear Vision system. More info here:

www.atraircraft.com/datas/download_cent ... on_108.pdf

ATR says that half of Aurigny's cancelled flights could have operated with the system.

berari · Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:54 am

It looks like Ethiopian Airlines will have a Bombardier Q400 on display at the show: https://twitter.com/ETWatch/status/1018004314638282752

qf789 · Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:41 am

Embraer forecasts demand for 10550 aircraft under 150 seats for the next 20 years

https://embraer.com/global/en/news?slug ... t-20-years

Flyglobal · Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:53 am

qf789 wrote:
Embraer forecasts demand for 10550 aircraft under 150 seats for the next 20 years

https://embraer.com/global/en/news?slug ... t-20-years

Thank you!
1) This includes aircaft from xx seats to 150 seats?
2) Anything about Embrear's potential market share in this segment?

Flyglobal

Momo1435 · Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:21 am

United order 25 Embraer A175 (+ 4 787-9)

https://twitter.com/thatjohn/status/1018814538643394566

Samrnpage · Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:31 pm

Letter of intent from Peruvian Airlines for the SSJ100, no idea how many. https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... 7690803790

acos24 · Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:52 pm

I'm surprised another carrier from the Americas is thinking of taking the SSJ considering how many problems Interjet has had with it. It's a fine airplane, but the aftermarket support is very poor.

Samrnpage wrote:
Letter of intent from Peruvian Airlines for the SSJ100, no idea how many. https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... 7690803790

lollomz · Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:26 pm

Samrnpage wrote:
Letter of intent from Peruvian Airlines for the SSJ100, no idea how many. https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... 7690803790

Any idea about the airline? I'm really curious....

Prost · Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:30 pm

Momo1435 wrote:
United order 25 Embraer A175 (+ 4 787-9)

https://twitter.com/thatjohn/status/1018814538643394566

I believe this is the E175.

ahj2000 · Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:37 pm

acos24 wrote:
I'm surprised another carrier from the Americas is thinking of taking the SSJ considering how many problems Interjet has had with it. It's a fine airplane, but the aftermarket support is very poor.

Samrnpage wrote:
Letter of intent from Peruvian Airlines for the SSJ100, no idea how many. https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... 7690803790

While that's true, Peruvian's 737Classics are getting advanced in age, and could use an upgrade if they want to compete better with 800-lb gorilla LATAM, ULCC Irelandia-backed Viva, and Avianca Perú (kind of). Perú as a country is only goign to get more competitive and Peruvian needs to modernize if they want to stay somewhat relevant.

wjcandee · Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:54 pm

Since this thead is also about engines, can we have a summary of the engine orders associated with the Airbus NEO orders and the non-737 Boeing orders?

aerolimani · Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:55 pm

acos24 wrote:
I'm surprised another carrier from the Americas is thinking of taking the SSJ considering how many problems Interjet has had with it. It's a fine airplane, but the aftermarket support is very poor.

Samrnpage wrote:
Letter of intent from Peruvian Airlines for the SSJ100, no idea how many. https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... 7690803790

Perhaps the deal is so good, they can afford to purchase enough spares.

anxo75 · Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:22 pm

acos24 wrote:
I'm surprised another carrier from the Americas is thinking of taking the SSJ considering how many problems Interjet has had with it. It's a fine airplane, but the aftermarket support is very poor.

Samrnpage wrote:
Letter of intent from Peruvian Airlines for the SSJ100, no idea how many. https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... 7690803790

http://www.elfinanciero.com.mx/empresas/interjet-incrementa-14-4-transporte-de-pasajeros-durante-el-primer-semestre
Interjet is increasing passenger transport? How is this possible? With all those Superjets not working?

JerseyFlyer · Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:05 am

Sooner787 wrote:
I would like to hear an update from RR regarding their 787 Trent engine repairs

Agree. The flurry of A350 orders so far suggests that concerns about the problems extending to the TXWB have been addressed.

qf789 · Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:02 am

Loong Air and CFM sign $500 million support agreement for CFM Leap-1A and CFM56-5B engines

https://www.cfmaeroengines.com/press-ar ... b-engines/

qf789 · Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:09 pm

Comair signs $160 million agreement with CFM

South Africa’s private domestic airline operator, JSE-listed Comair Limited, has signed an eight-year Rate Per Flight Hour (RPFH) agreement to support is fleet of 16 CFM56-7B engines. The agreement is valued at $160 million U.S. at list price.
RPFH agreements are part of CFM Services flexible support offering. Under the terms of the agreement, CFM will support the fleet on a dollar per flight hour basis.
“This is the first time we have signed a long-term support agreement with CFM for any of our engines,” said Erik Venter, CEO of Comair. “Our decision to make this commitment was based on our trust in CFM quality and to help us manage our fleet by making our costs more predictable.”

https://www.cfmaeroengines.com/press-ar ... agreement/

Samrnpage · Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:30 pm

"Embraer to announce orders shortly. #fia18 #avgeek"

qf789 · Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:30 pm

Azul ordering 21 E195-E2 aircraft

https://twitter.com/dominicgates/status ... 4513859589

qf789 · Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:35 pm

Mauritania orders 2 E175

https://twitter.com/AvGeekJames/status/ ... 5638910976

NAC LOI for 3 E190's

https://twitter.com/AvGeekJames/status/ ... 6023970816

3 firms orders plus 2 options for undisclosed customer from Spain

https://twitter.com/AvGeekJames/status/ ... 1269474304

Wataniya Airways orders 10 E195-E2 plus 10 options

https://twitter.com/AvGeekJames/status/ ... 8288181249

qf789 · Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:37 pm

Helvetic Airways orders 12 E190-E2 plus 12 options

https://twitter.com/AvGeekJames/status/ ... 8463202306

qf789 · Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:48 pm

Republic Airways orders 100 E175's plus 100 options

https://twitter.com/AvGeekJames/status/ ... 8119824384

edu2703 · Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:55 pm

qf789 wrote:
Azul ordering 21 E195-E2 aircraft

https://twitter.com/dominicgates/status ... 4513859589

In addition to the 30 firm orders made in 2015?

gatibosgru · Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:58 pm

Nice day for EMB!

jbs2886 · Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:01 pm

qf789 wrote:
Republic Airways orders 100 E175's plus 100 options

https://twitter.com/AvGeekJames/status/ ... 8119824384

Wow. Given Republic is owned by AA, DL and UA...we can probably assume it has agreements with one or more of its owners for these aircraft.

N328KF · Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:04 pm

qf789 wrote:
Republic Airways orders 100 E175's plus 100 options

https://twitter.com/AvGeekJames/status/ ... 8119824384

These are essentially "lost" MRJ orders, are they not?

EMBSPBR · Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:29 pm

Great news !!!
Go Embraer, go !!!

:bouncy:

Scorpius · Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:30 pm

Samrnpage wrote:
Letter of intent from Peruvian Airlines for the SSJ100, no idea how many. https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... 7690803790

It was about the signing of an agreement of intent to acquire 10 SSJ100 and 10 MS-21.

Waterbomber · Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:32 pm

Well done of Embraer for the Republic Airways and United orders. That is huge and for a big part at the expense of the MRJ as they will be in service years after the MRJ EIS. They were probably dirt cheap but Japan is learning the hard way that delays cost money and also in lost opportunities.
The 40 E2's so far are not bad either.
If they can go on like this and catch more E175 sales, there won't be much of a market left for the MRJ.
With the Ejet program soon to be under Boeing, the MRJ is essentially the new orphan. They now have no choice but to offer the best aircraft, support and prices. I'm not sure that they have what it takes, but even if they do, they are now in a new world of competing against Boeing directly.
Essentially, they are competing against their own client.
The Japanese may have no choice but to build their own 200 seaters...

OA940 · Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:07 pm

Damn that's a lot. Glad to see Embraer is getting many orders. I wish we could see more CRJ orders too tho. But I'm really happy that the E2 is picking up the pace

c933103 · Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:22 pm

[url]https://www.yicaiglobal.com/news/hna’s-urumqi-air-wants-buy-comacs-20-china-made-regional-jets[/url]
Urumqi Air signed a letter of intent to purchase ARJ21-700 regional jets at the 51st Farnborough International Airshow
Is this part of the 200 c919 and 100 arj order announced a while ago?

Polot · Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:34 pm

Waterbomber wrote:
Well done of Embraer for the Republic Airways and United orders. That is huge and for a big part at the expense of the MRJ as they will be in service years after the MRJ EIS. They were probably dirt cheap but Japan is learning the hard way that delays cost money and also in lost opportunities.
The 40 E2's so far are not bad either.
If they can go on like this and catch more E175 sales, there won't be much of a market left for the MRJ.
With the Ejet program soon to be under Boeing, the MRJ is essentially the new orphan. They now have no choice but to offer the best aircraft, support and prices. I'm not sure that they have what it takes, but even if they do, they are now in a new world of competing against Boeing directly.
Essentially, they are competing against their own client.
The Japanese may have no choice but to build their own 200 seaters...

The problem with the MRJ is it is too heavy for US scope clauses (as is the E175E2), and the US is by far the biggest market for jets this size. Embraer has signaled that they will just build the E175E1 indefinitely until things change.

BAINY3 · Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:36 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Republic Airways orders 100 E175's plus 100 options

https://twitter.com/AvGeekJames/status/ ... 8119824384

Wow. Given Republic is owned by AA, DL and UA...we can probably assume it has agreements with one or more of its owners for these aircraft.

Republic isn't "owned" by any of them. It is an independent company. But it does fly for all three of them, and that would make for a huge expansion as their current fleet consists of 197 E-Jets. I don't think they'd just be replacing older E175s with new E175s, so this sounds like a huge expansion for them.

EMBSPBR · Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:39 pm

So far, day 1 and day 2:

United Airlines: 25 E175-E1
Mauritania Airlines: 2 E175-E1
NAC - Nordic Aviation Capital: 3 E190-E1
Undisclosed customer from Spain: 3 E195-E2 + 2 options
Watanya Airways: 10 E195-E2 + 10 options
Helvetic: 12 E190-E2 + 12 options
Azul: 21 E195-E2
Republic: 100 E175-E1 + 100 options

Total: 176 firm orders ( 127 E1 + 46 E2 ) + 124 options ( 100 E1 + 24 E2 ) = 300 E-Jets

All orders combined worth US$ 15 billion.

jbs2886 · Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:46 pm

BAINY3 wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Republic Airways orders 100 E175's plus 100 options

https://twitter.com/AvGeekJames/status/ ... 8119824384

Wow. Given Republic is owned by AA, DL and UA...we can probably assume it has agreements with one or more of its owners for these aircraft.

Republic isn't "owned" by any of them. It is an independent company. But it does fly for all three of them, and that would make for a huge expansion as their current fleet consists of 197 E-Jets. I don't think they'd just be replacing older E175s with new E175s, so this sounds like a huge expansion for them.

False. Republic is owned by AA, DL and UA. Current shareholdings are not available, but none of the airlines have indicated they have divested. See: https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... bankruptcy

"Under its new structure, Republic has transitioned from a public company, with its shares now distributed amongst its major creditors: 25% by American, 17.35% by Delta, and 19.16% by United. Other claimants, including Embraer and GE Capital, will take a more than 5% stake."

lightsaber · Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:56 pm

EMBSPBR wrote:
Total: 176 firm orders ( 127 E1 + 46 E2 ) + 124 options ( 100 E1 + 24 E2 ) = 300 E-Jets

Thank you for the summary.

So 46 more E2s. That is great news.

Lightsaber

c933103 · Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:18 pm

lightsaber wrote:
EMBSPBR wrote:
Total: 176 firm orders ( 127 E1 + 46 E2 ) + 124 options ( 100 E1 + 24 E2 ) = 300 E-Jets

Thank you for the summary.

So 46 more E2s. That is great news.

Lightsaber

But is the situation a bit similar to A330 ceo/neo now? New generation of aircraft with new engine launched, but most are still buying the old one instead

trpmb6 · Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:19 pm

Embraer in my opinion is the current winner of the show. They are doing really well right now.

N328KF · Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:46 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
Embraer in my opinion is the current winner of the show. They are doing really well right now.

This thought crossed my mind. I wonder how many of the orders were iffy until the Boeing/Embraer announcement. While there can legally be no cross-marketing, the Boeing deal undoubtedly gave customers a great deal more faith in the Embraer products.

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