qf789 wrote:

3 firms orders plus 2 options for undisclosed customer from Spain

https://twitter.com/AvGeekJames/status/ ... 1269474304

That must be Air Europa

Flying-Tiger wrote:

ATR has started early with its annoucements:

EWA Air for 2x ATR 72-600 (MoU)
Drukair for 1x ATR42-600 (firm)
Aurigny for 3x ATR72-600 (LoI)
Air Saint-Pierre for 1x ATR42-600 (MoU)
Air Botswana for 2x ATR72-600 (firm)
Italy Guardia di Finanza for 1x ATR72-600MP

Moreover, we still have a commercial annoucement from ATR to go tomorrow (18-07) at 11:00 local.

N328KF wrote:

trpmb6 wrote:

Embraer in my opinion is the current winner of the show. They are doing really well right now.

This thought crossed my mind. I wonder how many of the orders were iffy until the Boeing/Embraer announcement. While there can legally be no cross-marketing, the Boeing deal undoubtedly gave customers a great deal more faith in the Embraer products.

I honestly thought Embraer would struggle with the A220 and the boeing tie up not really official yet. It must prove the trust airlines have in their products.

Samrnpage wrote:

N328KF wrote:

trpmb6 wrote:

Embraer in my opinion is the current winner of the show. They are doing really well right now.

This thought crossed my mind. I wonder how many of the orders were iffy until the Boeing/Embraer announcement. While there can legally be no cross-marketing, the Boeing deal undoubtedly gave customers a great deal more faith in the Embraer products.

I honestly thought Embraer would struggle with the A220 and the boeing tie up not really official yet. It must prove the trust airlines have in their products.

True, but it also speaks to the lack of alternatives to the E175-E1. I’m thrilled to see 46 E2 orders, but am holding out for more.

EMBSPBR wrote:

So far, day 1 and day 2:

United Airlines: 25 E175-E1
Mauritania Airlines: 2 E175-E1
NAC - Nordic Aviation Capital: 3 E190-E1
Undisclosed customer from Spain: 3 E195-E2 + 2 options
Watanya Airways: 10 E195-E2 + 10 options
Helvetic: 12 E190-E2 + 12 options
Azul: 21 E195-E2
Republic: 100 E175-E1 + 100 options

Total: 176 firm orders ( 127 E1 + 46 E2 ) + 124 options ( 100 E1 + 24 E2 ) = 300 E-Jets

All orders combined worth US$ 15 billion.

So I've been mulling around all what this show so far means for Embraer, because when we all went into the Air Show I'm sure we all defined success for them as landing one or more of the following, JetBlue, Spirit, United, or Ethiopian. What's amazing is that they've firmed almost two years of production in firm orders without landing any of those, and with only one off the table. That's downright incredible.

The mix of E1 to E2 might not be quite what they wanted but there are three things I see that are incredible boosts to the E2 where I think it's safe to say it's gone from treading water to a significantly better position.

First the 127 E1 orders ensure that Embraer can continue to run production at a high clip of somewhere around 100 a year which will help E2 pricing and availability. Especially given the production troubles of the competition this is an invaluable asset that I think will pay great dividends. The orders they received should be plenty to keep plowing ahead at a very competitive production rate and not fall into the production cut downward spiral that the A330 for example is currently struggling with.

Second the HUGE 125 total orders for the 175 I don't think can be overstated for what it does for the 70-90 seater market. While the 175 has been wildly successful with it's 600 175's sold to date, this is another 20 % boost to the total fleet. This one eats up another 125 frames that the MRJ or CRJ could have gotten, only increases the economies of scale and further entrenches the 175 as the standard RJ going forward in the US market. That last part may be the key to dominating for the next generation even with the struggles of the 175E2. These E1's buy some time for the scope clause issues to be sorted out and give Embraer the information they'll need to know where to place the replacement, and also the huge fleets in service to be the shoe in to replace. Even if the 175 E2 comes out not quite as competitive as the MRJ 90 when and if scope is relaxed, the higher production rate, already amortized program, and the HUGE in service fleet may be too much for the MRJ. Any reengined CRJ will also have to deal with the higher production rate of the EJets beyond the difficulties with newer engines on a T Tail airframe. The continuing dominance of the 175E1 cements Embraer as being in the pole position for the next generation of RJ's when that dam breaks loose, however that occurs.

Finally the E2 may have had one of the most sneakily successful shows we've seen in a long time. It didn't land a single one of the orders (so far there's still time and it's only lost one) that we were all talking about going into the show and yet it's landed almost 50 orders. I was expecting at least a couple dozen but I was banking on 12 conversions from Wideroe, and maybe a lessor or something. To pick up almost 50 orders, still have Wideroe's options out there, and the big competitions pending in incredible, especially when you see the orders all come from airlines all over the world. This show so far has been a HUGE step forward in cementing the E2's future, it's not out of the woods yet, but it's much closer to a safe and successful future than it's ever been, and truly maybe only one big competition win away from being completely out of the woods and flying high.

Here's hoping the rest of the show has some more great news for Embraer and we end up with an E2 program that has cemented it's future regardless of what happens with any JV's or anything else. It's a great plane and I'm glad to see it have a show that was as good as it could be already, even if in a way none of us saw coming.

I know that Bombardier rarely does very well announcing orders at these shows, but will they not be able to have buyers for the CRJ or the Q400 aircraft lined up?

Anyone know if Bombardier has any press announcement scheduled for Wednesday?

If they cannot get even a few small orders for both programs that they still own, this will be an abysmal showing for them.

Hoping tomorrow holds some good deals to be released.

iceberg210 wrote:

The mix of E1 to E2 might not be quite what they wanted but there are three things I see that are incredible boosts to the E2 where I think it's safe to say it's gone from treading water to a significantly better position.

First the 127 E1 orders ensure that Embraer can continue to run production at a high clip of somewhere around 100 a year which will help E2 pricing and availability. Especially given the production troubles of the competition this is an invaluable asset that I think will pay great dividends. The orders they received should be plenty to keep plowing ahead at a very competitive production rate and not fall into the production cut downward spiral that the A330 for example is currently struggling with.

This si the most important aspect. The large quantity of E1 orders will allow Embraer time they didn't have before as well as economy of scale. Embraer has changed their fate.

This gives hope to land Spirit, United, Ethiopian, or Kenya (the known E2-195 vs. CS300 campaigns).

lightsaber wrote:

iceberg210 wrote:

The mix of E1 to E2 might not be quite what they wanted but there are three things I see that are incredible boosts to the E2 where I think it's safe to say it's gone from treading water to a significantly better position.

First the 127 E1 orders ensure that Embraer can continue to run production at a high clip of somewhere around 100 a year which will help E2 pricing and availability. Especially given the production troubles of the competition this is an invaluable asset that I think will pay great dividends. The orders they received should be plenty to keep plowing ahead at a very competitive production rate and not fall into the production cut downward spiral that the A330 for example is currently struggling with.

This si the most important aspect. The large quantity of E1 orders will allow Embraer time they didn't have before as well as economy of scale. Embraer has changed their fate.

This gives hope to land Spirit, United, Ethiopian, or Kenya (the known E2-195 vs. CS300 campaigns).

Agree. This really helps in two ways: (1) it keeps the line moving for economies of scale, etc. and (2) provides much needed income (I am assuming even with good deals, Embraer is making a decent profit on these sales). Embraer just needs to hold on until scope clauses change and/or the 190/195 size takes off. With Boeing coming in, I suspect the latter may actually happen.

CRJ900X wrote:

I know that Bombardier rarely does very well announcing orders at these shows, but will they not be able to have buyers for the CRJ or the Q400 aircraft lined up?

Anyone know if Bombardier has any press announcement scheduled for Wednesday?

If they cannot get even a few small orders for both programs that they still own, this will be an abysmal showing for them.

Hoping tomorrow holds some good deals to be released.

Canadian securities regulations kind of throw a wrench into the idea of 'saving' announcements for airshows and such. Basically, if there is a company event significant enough to substantially alter the stock price, they pretty much have to announce it right away. As a result, BBD has to use these events primarily for sales pitches for the gathered throngs of potential customers, rather than announcements.

Otherwise, I'm sure Airbus would have saved Jetblue for the airshow.

lightsaber wrote:

iceberg210 wrote:

The mix of E1 to E2 might not be quite what they wanted but there are three things I see that are incredible boosts to the E2 where I think it's safe to say it's gone from treading water to a significantly better position.

First the 127 E1 orders ensure that Embraer can continue to run production at a high clip of somewhere around 100 a year which will help E2 pricing and availability. Especially given the production troubles of the competition this is an invaluable asset that I think will pay great dividends. The orders they received should be plenty to keep plowing ahead at a very competitive production rate and not fall into the production cut downward spiral that the A330 for example is currently struggling with.

This si the most important aspect. The large quantity of E1 orders will allow Embraer time they didn't have before as well as economy of scale. Embraer has changed their fate.

This gives hope to land Spirit, United, Ethiopian, or Kenya (the known E2-195 vs. CS300 campaigns).

Ethiopian has shelved plans to purchase a smaller jet.

PlanesNTrains wrote:

Samrnpage wrote:

N328KF wrote:

This thought crossed my mind. I wonder how many of the orders were iffy until the Boeing/Embraer announcement. While there can legally be no cross-marketing, the Boeing deal undoubtedly gave customers a great deal more faith in the Embraer products.

I honestly thought Embraer would struggle with the A220 and the boeing tie up not really official yet. It must prove the trust airlines have in their products.

True, but it also speaks to the lack of alternatives to the E175-E1. I’m thrilled to see 46 E2 orders, but am holding out for more.

PlanesNTrains,

There are several alternatives to the 175E1 in the US market: BBD CRJ-900 / Q400 , ATR-72 and Mitsubishi MRJ-70. What occurs is that the 175E1 is the most competitive, consistently receiving more than 70% of sales.

Nean1 wrote:

PlanesNTrains wrote:

Samrnpage wrote:

I honestly thought Embraer would struggle with the A220 and the boeing tie up not really official yet. It must prove the trust airlines have in their products.

True, but it also speaks to the lack of alternatives to the E175-E1. I’m thrilled to see 46 E2 orders, but am holding out for more.

PlanesNTrains,

There are several alternatives to the 175E1 in the US market: BBD CRJ-900 / Q400 , ATR-72 and Mitsubishi MRJ-70. What occurs is that the 175E1 is the most competitive, consistently receiving more than 70% of sales.

Q400/ATR72 are props that American airlines seems to avoid and MRJ70 won't be available for at least three of four more years. Can CRJ900 actually fit in those scope clauses?

Nean1 wrote:

PlanesNTrains wrote:

Samrnpage wrote:

I honestly thought Embraer would struggle with the A220 and the boeing tie up not really official yet. It must prove the trust airlines have in their products.

True, but it also speaks to the lack of alternatives to the E175-E1. I’m thrilled to see 46 E2 orders, but am holding out for more.

PlanesNTrains,

There are several alternatives to the 175E1 in the US market: BBD CRJ-900 / Q400 , ATR-72 and Mitsubishi MRJ-70. What occurs is that the 175E1 is the most competitive, consistently receiving more than 70% of sales.

1. It wasn’t an attack on the E175-E1.
2. Only the CR9 is a realistic alternative.
3. I love the Ejets.

That doesn’t change that it’s the de facto US regional standard and therefore will not surprisingly get the lion’s share of the orders. My point was that I’d like to see more orders for the E2.

Hokkaido Air System CO. signs a MoU for 2 ATR42-600 + 1 option


http://www.atraircraft.com/newsroom/pressrelease/hokkaido-air-system-co-ltd-signs-for-atr-42-600s-1500-en.html

Embraer and Kenya Airways sign comprehensive spare parts support contract

https://twitter.com/embraer/status/1019535673584386048

ALC $1 billion order for LEAP-1A to power 34 A321neo's

https://www.cfmaeroengines.com/press-ar ... ine-order/

ALC as finalised a $2.3 billion order for additional LEAP-1B for 83 737MAX

https://www.cfmaeroengines.com/press-ar ... ine-order/

Its kind of sad but expected that BBD has not announced any orders its unfortunate they could not hold onto the C Series but it is what it is.

First, I just saw (as others already posted) that Ethiopian isn't going to buy small jets (E2 vs. A220):
https://www.msn.com/en-us/finance/compa ... ar-AAA8v6b

I just like links...

qf789 wrote:

Embraer and Kenya Airways sign comprehensive spare parts support contract

Any news on the E2 vs. A220 competition? Only links I had were long ago when the A220 was called the C-series.
http://aviationweek.com/awincommercial/ ... r-e2-order
https://twitter.com/embraer/status/1019535673584386048[/quote]

Connect with a Safari!
https://www.msn.com/en-us/finance/compa ... ar-AAA8v6b

https://twitter.com/search?src=typd&q=b ... commercial

Firm order for 4 CRJ900 but I think these were already known.

Slim pickings for Bombardier so far.

Columbian based EasyFly has signed a MOU for 5 ATR-72

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... f193895992

Wataniya has ordered 10 E195E2. deliveries starting 2020

qf789 wrote:

Columbian based EasyFly has signed a MOU for 5 ATR-72

I know that for English speakers is sometimes a bit confusing as you are used to the term Columbia as in British Columbia etc. but the correct term for the people, companies and everything related to Colombia is Colombian.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... -y-450452/

Boom delays first flight of their XB-1 Demonstrator "Baby Boom" until 2019.

I can't get over the fact that they actually call it Baby Boom.

Also part of the announcement, Virgin Galactic will build a factory in California to support a production rate of 60 aircraft per year. (This is not surprising after seeing Sir Richard Branson invest in the company)

LJ wrote:

Hokkaido Air System CO. signs a MoU for 2 ATR42-600 + 1 option


http://www.atraircraft.com/newsroom/pressrelease/hokkaido-air-system-co-ltd-signs-for-atr-42-600s-1500-en.html

Not surprising. This way they can maintain the fleet commonality with Japan Air Commuter (JAC) and continue to cross-leased planes (short term) to each other, along with having a better economy of scale for maintenance (shared between HAC, JAC, and Amakusa Airline).

What is the price difference between an E1 and an E2?

The success of the E75 cannot be denied, but it appears that it mostly lives off a market more or less artifically created by US scope clauses. Its sales elsewhere have not been terribly breathtaking and outside the US, the E90 appears to be sub-type more in demand. Not that that should matter to Embraer as a sale is a sale, but it says relatively little about the aircraft's true competitiveness or its position is an unregulated market where aircraft size is only dictated by demand.

leghorn wrote:

Firm order for 4 CRJ900 but I think these were already known.

Congrats to Bombardier for getting their first order of the show!

baje427 wrote:

Its kind of sad but expected that BBD has not announced any orders its unfortunate they could not hold onto the C Series but it is what it is.

Well BBD still owns 49.9% of the C-Series/A220. So technically, they did get orders. Plus the 4 CRJs so far.

Slug71 wrote:

Well BBD still owns 49.9% of the C-Series/A220. So technically, they did get orders. Plus the 4 CRJs so far.

Bombardier owns 31% of the A220. 4 CRJs doesn't quite compare the 100+100 E175s Embraer has sold to United to replace their old CRJ fleet. Bombardier lost a customer there. Only time will tell if Bombardier can secure more orders.

trpmb6 wrote:

Embraer in my opinion is the current winner of the show. They are doing really well right now.

That's not obvious. They are selling 127+100 of E1s, and only 46+24 E2s. Make you worry about the E2, and therefore Embraer.

CFM signs a couple more deals

CALC has selected LEAP-1A engines for 17 A320neos plus up to 50 options. Also announced was an order for CFM56-5B for 3 A320ceo and up to 9 options

https://www.cfmaeroengines.com/press-ar ... 0-million/

Goshawk has completed an agreement for the LEAP-1B for 20 737MAX on order

https://www.cfmaeroengines.com/press-ar ... ine-order/

Air Transat selects PW GTF engines for A321neo's

http://newsroom.pw.utc.com/2018-07-18-A ... rom-AerCap

kitplane01 wrote:

trpmb6 wrote:

Embraer in my opinion is the current winner of the show. They are doing really well right now.

That's not obvious. They are selling 127+100 of E1s, and only 46+24 E2s. Make you worry about the E2, and therefore Embraer.

There's enough e1 orders that they can bide their time and get e2 orders.

musman9853 wrote:

kitplane01 wrote:

trpmb6 wrote:

Embraer in my opinion is the current winner of the show. They are doing really well right now.

That's not obvious. They are selling 127+100 of E1s, and only 46+24 E2s. Make you worry about the E2, and therefore Embraer.

There's enough e1 orders that they can bide their time and get e2 orders.

Yeah.. Saying that makes you worry about the E2 and Embraer is like saying "well airbus is selling the A321 but man that A330neo isn't doing well and going to sink the company"

Embraer had a strong airshow. Very strong.

This might be the wrong place to ask, but any news on the Trent7000 Certification? I would have thought that Farnborough would be the ideal place to announce things ... but it's quiet. Launched the aircraft / engine at Farnborough 2014. Problems ? or RR ending the show with good news ? Any info would be welcomed.

According to 2T18 results released today:

Source: https://ri.embraer.com.br/listresultado ... bNAc2ESQ==

E2 order book up to June 30, 2018:

E175-E2:
- firm orders: 100
- options: 100

E190-E2:
- firm orders: 50
- options: 72

E195-E2:
- firm orders: 80
- options: 65

Total: firm orders 230 + 237 options = 467.

Farnborough 2018 sales:

Undisclosed customer from Spain: 3 E195-E2 + 2 options
Watanya Airways: 10 E195-E2 + 10 options
Helvetic: 12 E190-E2 + 12 options
Azul: 21 E195-E2

So, the latest numbers are:

E175-E2:
- firm orders: 100
- options: 100

E190-E2:
- firm orders: 62
- options: 84

E195-E2:
- firm orders: 114
- options: 77

Total: firm orders 276 + 261 options = 537.

EMBSPBR wrote:

According to 2T18 results released today:

Source: https://ri.embraer.com.br/listresultado ... bNAc2ESQ==

E2 order book up to June 30, 2018:

E175-E2:
- firm orders: 100
- options: 100

E190-E2:
- firm orders: 50
- options: 72

E195-E2:
- firm orders: 80
- options: 65

Total: firm orders 230 + 237 options = 467.

Farnborough 2018 sales:

Undisclosed customer from Spain: 3 E195-E2 + 2 options
Watanya Airways: 10 E195-E2 + 10 options
Helvetic: 12 E190-E2 + 12 options
Azul: 21 E195-E2

So, the latest numbers are:

E175-E2:
- firm orders: 100
- options: 100

E190-E2:
- firm orders: 62
- options: 84

E195-E2:
- firm orders: 114
- options: 77

Total: firm orders 276 + 261 options = 537.

Unfortunately I the 100 E2-175 orders are what is called a ghost order. Unless DALPA opens scope clauses, contegencies will be excercised and the order will be voided.

So only 176 real firm orders. Sorry. I want Pratt to sell more engines, so I root for the E2. I just believe the one competitive plane is the E2-195, with E2-190s to be bought for gauge management.

lightsaber wrote:

Unfortunately I the 100 E2-175 orders are what is called a ghost order. Unless DALPA opens scope clauses, contegencies will be excercised and the order will be voided.

So only 176 real firm orders. Sorry. I want Pratt to sell more engines, so I root for the E2. I just believe the one competitive plane is the E2-195, with E2-190s to be bought for gauge management.

Can't remember where I saw it but I thought I saw that the Skywest E2 orders might be convertible to E1's. I'm not sure whether that'd happen or if Embraer would if Skywest needed more 175E1's just say "Yeah we'll move the deposits and what not over but we'll keep that ghost order on the books too" but I wonder if those might just become 175E1's at some point which while that would effectively be it for the 175E2, might help the production line if you could firm up another year of production.

I'd like to know how far down the road Embraer is on the 175E2, because I'm thinking it's going to have to be revamped or dropped and maybe replaced by a 175E1.5.

What's the time line for the next scope discussions because I'm guessing shortly after it's confirmed that scope won't be relaxed (which is probably what will happen) the 175E2 will be cancelled or announced a redesign. (MRJ is too far down the road to chagne focus I'm assuming).

iceberg210 wrote:

What's the time line for the next scope discussions because I'm guessing shortly after it's confirmed that scope won't be relaxed (which is probably what will happen) the 175E2 will be cancelled or announced a redesign. (MRJ is too far down the road to chagne focus I'm assuming).

Earlier this year, Mitsubishi Aircraft received approval from its parent company, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, to move forward with development of the MRJ70, the smaller version of the MRJ family. The MRJ70 will meet current scope standards. It is the only next generation regional jet presently in development that will qualify under scope. As currently spec'd, the MRJ70 will seat 69 in a two-class configuration (9J +60Y) or 76 in one-class arrangement. Engineering design work, however, is now underway to increase MRJ70's seating capacity.

So Mitsubishi walked away from this show without a single order? Sad.

trpmb6 wrote:

musman9853 wrote:

kitplane01 wrote:

That's not obvious. They are selling 127+100 of E1s, and only 46+24 E2s. Make you worry about the E2, and therefore Embraer.

There's enough e1 orders that they can bide their time and get e2 orders.

Yeah.. Saying that makes you worry about the E2 and Embraer is like saying "well airbus is selling the A321 but man that A330neo isn't doing well and going to sink the company"

Embraer had a strong airshow. Very strong.

No, that analogy makes no sense.

Embraer on the commercial side has the E series. It's future is the E2. If it cannot sell E2s, I worry about it's future.

musman9853 wrote:

kitplane01 wrote:

trpmb6 wrote:

Embraer in my opinion is the current winner of the show. They are doing really well right now.

That's not obvious. They are selling 127+100 of E1s, and only 46+24 E2s. Make you worry about the E2, and therefore Embraer.

There's enough e1 orders that they can bide their time and get e2 orders.

I agree that Embraer is not going to close factories tomorrow. But Embraer's future is the E2 not the E1. And if they cannot sell enough E2's ....

BTW, I'd mot predicting their eminent demise. I bet they end up OK. But that airlines keep ordering E1s over E2's would worry me. (cough) scope clause (cough)