UA to upgrade BOM to 77W from Oct 18

ronitkadam777 · Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:44 am

United chooses BOM as its next 77W destination from EWR.
https://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com ... er-mumbai/

neomax · Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:23 am

I think this surprises no one with DL entering the market, but I definitely do not think it is worth downgrading NRT and TPE to a 772. What they should've done instead is gone for frequency and split the existing frequency into two 787's and keep the 77W's on the TPAC routes. India is a big market but NRT and TPE is where the money is and taking Polaris off of it and sending it to India instead is a recipe for disaster. Hopefully they have done their homework.

WPvsMW · Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:39 am

OP, not meaning to offend you, but the verb you want is "upgauge", UA to upgauge BOM to 77W...
"upgrade" usually means a class of service upgrade. Y to W. W to J. J to F.

Nimish · Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:55 am

Uggh - this means the dreaded 3-4-3 on EWR-BOM. Still - should be a significant increase in capacity on EWR-BOM. I wonder if DEL will follow with the 77W?

binayak · Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:57 am

Even I feel, ten abreast in Y in such a long flight won't be preferred by many travellers and that's where AI and to some extent DL can take advantage of

codc10 · Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:58 am

neomax wrote:
I think this surprises no one with DL entering the market, but I definitely do not think it is worth downgrading NRT and TPE to a 772. What they should've done instead is gone for frequency and split the existing frequency into two 787's and keep the 77W's on the TPAC routes. India is a big market but NRT and TPE is where the money is and taking Polaris off of it and sending it to India instead is a recipe for disaster. Hopefully they have done their homework.

The blogger hasn’t done his homework... winter schedule isn’t finalized and 772 in many markets just a placeholder. 77W only scheduled to about 11-12 frames as currently filed.

dtw2hyd · Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:58 am

I think 10 abreast 77W has to be load-restricted at least ex-Mumbai on some days. But it is a nice upgauge to in an attempt to retain non-*A premium passengers.

DL did a smart thing by going 3-3-3 probably looking at their stage lengths there is no point in having a high-density config with empty seats.

NYC-India can expect $399 RT fares in 2019.

Cointrin330 · Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:15 am

neomax wrote:
I think this surprises no one with DL entering the market, but I definitely do not think it is worth downgrading NRT and TPE to a 772. What they should've done instead is gone for frequency and split the existing frequency into two 787's and keep the 77W's on the TPAC routes. India is a big market but NRT and TPE is where the money is and taking Polaris off of it and sending it to India instead is a recipe for disaster. Hopefully they have done their homework.

Swapping out the 77W for the 772 on SFO-NRT and SFO-TPE is concerning a bit, since SFO is supposedly the powerhouse hub for TPAC but Polaris isn't being taken off those two routes. Polaris is the brand for the UA long haul premium cabin and the 772 mods are underway so it's possible a refurbished 772 will operate those two routes by the time the plane swaps happen. Am not entirely sure this is in response to DL entering the market either (or re-entering it, from JFK). The original CO, then UA routes to India (EWR-BOM, EWR-DEL) have been successful for a long time and one of the few instances of a US airline operating nonstop to India that has worked. There is plenty of local O&D demand to draw from (VFR, business, and good connecting traffic through EWR). Perhaps UA is just responding to that demand accordingly.

codc10 · Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:52 am

Cointrin330 wrote:
Swapping out the 77W for the 772 on SFO-NRT and SFO-TPE is concerning a bit, since SFO is supposedly the powerhouse hub for TPAC but Polaris isn't being taken off those two routes. Polaris is the brand for the UA long haul premium cabin and the 772 mods are underway so it's possible a refurbished 772 will operate those two routes by the time the plane swaps happen.

I hate to keep banging this drum, but look for these routes (or others) to be 77W when the winter schedule is loaded. 772/789 in many markets are merely placeholders.

jayunited · Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:55 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
Swapping out the 77W for the 772 on SFO-NRT and SFO-TPE is concerning a bit, since SFO is supposedly the powerhouse hub for TPAC but Polaris isn't being taken off those two routes. Polaris is the brand for the UA long haul premium cabin and the 772 mods are underway so it's possible a refurbished 772 will operate those two routes by the time the plane swaps happen. Am not entirely sure this is in response to DL entering the market either (or re-entering it, from JFK). The original CO, then UA routes to India (EWR-BOM, EWR-DEL) have been successful for a long time and one of the few instances of a US airline operating nonstop to India that has worked. There is plenty of local O&D demand to draw from (VFR, business, and good connecting traffic through EWR). Perhaps UA is just responding to that demand accordingly.

I think you are jumping to all sort of conclusions without doing any research. So far I've only been able to find 4 routes that have confirmed 77W's they are EWR-NRT, EWR-BOM, SFO-HKG, and SFO-AKL. By the beginning or middle of November UA will have 18 frames in the fleet these 4 routes don't need 18 frames and with so many routes showing 77E for the fall/winter schedule UA doesn't have enough 77Es in the fleet to cover all these route especially when you take into account polaris installation will be going on with at least 2 77E frames perhaps 3 frames out of service at XMN for reconfiguration. So before you start sensationalizing something do some research and then ask the question what is UA doing with the remaining 77W frames in the fleet.

binayak · Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:01 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
I think 10 abreast 77W has to be load-restricted at least ex-Mumbai on some days. But it is a nice upgauge to in an attempt to retain non-*A premium passengers.

DL did a smart thing by going 3-3-3 probably looking at their stage lengths there is no point in having a high-density config with empty seats.
.

I really wish they do. What they can do is block middle seats B and J of first five rows of Y+. That will create a virtual premium economy section.

CaliguyNYC · Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:07 pm

Do we think this is in direct response to DL potentially offering JFK-BOM? Manhattan origin/destination pax are pretty much up for grabs between JFK/EWR. The 77W has 60 J class seats. I guess UA knows what they are doing but wow that is a big premium cabin. Plus there doesn't seem to be Premium Econ (which I think is really needed on the EWR-India routes - the region has some affluent VFR that can afford a $2500 Premium Eco ticket but not a $8k J ticket). That said, BOM has seen a lot of new route announcements. Maybe yields are improving as the ME3 have maxed out capacity and EY is shrinking.

Also I wonder if UA will swap aircraft on this route - something like EWR-BOM 77W during the winter and SFO-TLV 77W during the summer?

VTORD · Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:40 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
Do we think this is in direct response to DL potentially offering JFK-BOM? Manhattan origin/destination pax are pretty much up for grabs between JFK/EWR. The 77W has 60 J class seats. I guess UA knows what they are doing but wow that is a big premium cabin. Plus there doesn't seem to be Premium Econ (which I think is really needed on the EWR-India routes - the region has some affluent VFR that can afford a $2500 Premium Eco ticket but not a $8k J ticket). That said, BOM has seen a lot of new route announcements. Maybe yields are improving as the ME3 have maxed out capacity and EY is shrinking.

Also I wonder if UA will swap aircraft on this route - something like EWR-BOM 77W during the winter and SFO-TLV 77W during the summer?

I think this might be more permanent. Particularly if LY ever begin SFO from S19. And UA48/49 seem to be always full.

binayak · Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:41 pm

BTW just out of curiosity I wanted to know, does this news also mean UA will cooperate with AI for India side connections given UA FFs can no longer earn miles on 9W .

dtw2hyd · Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:53 pm

Nope, UA will never partner with AI, because of their philosophical differences. 6E is a better partner.

codc10 · Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:20 pm

binayak wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
I think 10 abreast 77W has to be load-restricted at least ex-Mumbai on some days. But it is a nice upgauge to in an attempt to retain non-*A premium passengers.

DL did a smart thing by going 3-3-3 probably looking at their stage lengths there is no point in having a high-density config with empty seats.
.

I really wish they do. What they can do is block middle seats B and J of first five rows of Y+. That will create a virtual premium economy section.

There will be a "real" premium economy section on the 77Ws starting this year...

dmstorm22 · Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:25 pm

VTORD wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
Do we think this is in direct response to DL potentially offering JFK-BOM? Manhattan origin/destination pax are pretty much up for grabs between JFK/EWR. The 77W has 60 J class seats. I guess UA knows what they are doing but wow that is a big premium cabin. Plus there doesn't seem to be Premium Econ (which I think is really needed on the EWR-India routes - the region has some affluent VFR that can afford a $2500 Premium Eco ticket but not a $8k J ticket). That said, BOM has seen a lot of new route announcements. Maybe yields are improving as the ME3 have maxed out capacity and EY is shrinking.

Also I wonder if UA will swap aircraft on this route - something like EWR-BOM 77W during the winter and SFO-TLV 77W during the summer?

I think this might be more permanent. Particularly if LY ever begin SFO from S19. And UA48/49 seem to be always full.

I think this is permanent.

Way back when UA first announced the 77W order, EWR was supposed to be where they sat (go back to their old VP route planner who left post-Kirby). That didn't happen, but these trunk EWR routes always seemed like good fits. From what I believe the LF are always high on EWR-BOM, both front and back. They have been able to do this charging a premium over both AI non-stop and 1-stop ME3.

EWR-BOM on 77W always made sense.

binayak · Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:45 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Nope, UA will never partner with AI, because of their philosophical differences. 6E is a better partner.

In the name of humanity, UA shouldn't . Imagine after a 15 hour flight being vulnerable to get beaten on the tarmac during your last leg!!! :wink2:

Ziyulu · Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:56 pm

Doesn't UA fly from SFO to SIN in a 787? That's a longer flight and it is still with the narrow 3-3-3 seating.

CaliguyNYC · Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:07 pm

binayak wrote:
BTW just out of curiosity I wanted to know, does this news also mean UA will cooperate with AI for India side connections given UA FFs can no longer earn miles on 9W .

Well UA is pretty generous on FF miles credit when flying AI. I feel like UA doesn't push or block AI. They just sort of ignore AI because UA has too much incentive to feed the LH JV.

ronitkadam777 · Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:20 pm

Looking forward to better IFE screens on their 77Ws in Y. The 772ER ones are simply not up to the mark on 15+ hour flights.

SurfandSnow · Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:35 pm

A perfectly logical move. Very excited to see what UA has in store for EWR. It was bad, but seems to be getting a lot better!

Amwest2United · Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:11 am

SurfandSnow wrote:
A perfectly logical move. Very excited to see what UA has in store for EWR. It was bad, but seems to be getting a lot better!

I would expect 1-2 more round trip additions with the Oct. 28th schedule to the 77W rotations, possibly HKG and PVG, for a total of 6 daily departures.

Cointrin330 · Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:32 am

jayunited wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
Swapping out the 77W for the 772 on SFO-NRT and SFO-TPE is concerning a bit, since SFO is supposedly the powerhouse hub for TPAC but Polaris isn't being taken off those two routes. Polaris is the brand for the UA long haul premium cabin and the 772 mods are underway so it's possible a refurbished 772 will operate those two routes by the time the plane swaps happen. Am not entirely sure this is in response to DL entering the market either (or re-entering it, from JFK). The original CO, then UA routes to India (EWR-BOM, EWR-DEL) have been successful for a long time and one of the few instances of a US airline operating nonstop to India that has worked. There is plenty of local O&D demand to draw from (VFR, business, and good connecting traffic through EWR). Perhaps UA is just responding to that demand accordingly.

I think you are jumping to all sort of conclusions without doing any research. So far I've only been able to find 4 routes that have confirmed 77W's they are EWR-NRT, EWR-BOM, SFO-HKG, and SFO-AKL. By the beginning or middle of November UA will have 18 frames in the fleet these 4 routes don't need 18 frames and with so many routes showing 77E for the fall/winter schedule UA doesn't have enough 77Es in the fleet to cover all these route especially when you take into account polaris installation will be going on with at least 2 77E frames perhaps 3 frames out of service at XMN for reconfiguration. So before you start sensationalizing something do some research and then ask the question what is UA doing with the remaining 77W frames in the fleet.

Excuse me? What conclusions am I jumping to? Who are you? Scott Kirby? Glad you have the time to figure out what routes UA will fly their 77W's on in the Winter. I was just expressing an opinion, not presenting a thesis on UA fleet management.

Cointrin330 · Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:32 am

codc10 wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
Swapping out the 77W for the 772 on SFO-NRT and SFO-TPE is concerning a bit, since SFO is supposedly the powerhouse hub for TPAC but Polaris isn't being taken off those two routes. Polaris is the brand for the UA long haul premium cabin and the 772 mods are underway so it's possible a refurbished 772 will operate those two routes by the time the plane swaps happen.

I hate to keep banging this drum, but look for these routes (or others) to be 77W when the winter schedule is loaded. 772/789 in many markets are merely placeholders.

Makes sense.

Newbiepilot · Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:46 am

neomax wrote:
I think this surprises no one with DL entering the market, but I definitely do not think it is worth downgrading NRT and TPE to a 772. What they should've done instead is gone for frequency and split the existing frequency into two 787's and keep the 77W's on the TPAC routes. India is a big market but NRT and TPE is where the money is and taking Polaris off of it and sending it to India instead is a recipe for disaster. Hopefully they have done their homework.

How do you know there is more money flying to NRT and TPE than India? New York to India has a lot of demand. UA is also the only airline offering one stop itineraries to India from smaller US cities that lack Transatlantic service. While EWR is more of an OD hub than transit hub, That traffic can be surprisingly high yielding.

EWRamp · Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:56 am

jayunited wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
Swapping out the 77W for the 772 on SFO-NRT and SFO-TPE is concerning a bit, since SFO is supposedly the powerhouse hub for TPAC but Polaris isn't being taken off those two routes. Polaris is the brand for the UA long haul premium cabin and the 772 mods are underway so it's possible a refurbished 772 will operate those two routes by the time the plane swaps happen. Am not entirely sure this is in response to DL entering the market either (or re-entering it, from JFK). The original CO, then UA routes to India (EWR-BOM, EWR-DEL) have been successful for a long time and one of the few instances of a US airline operating nonstop to India that has worked. There is plenty of local O&D demand to draw from (VFR, business, and good connecting traffic through EWR). Perhaps UA is just responding to that demand accordingly.

I think you are jumping to all sort of conclusions without doing any research. So far I've only been able to find 4 routes that have confirmed 77W's they are EWR-NRT, EWR-BOM, SFO-HKG, and SFO-AKL. By the beginning or middle of November UA will have 18 frames in the fleet these 4 routes don't need 18 frames and with so many routes showing 77E for the fall/winter schedule UA doesn't have enough 77Es in the fleet to cover all these route especially when you take into account polaris installation will be going on with at least 2 77E frames perhaps 3 frames out of service at XMN for reconfiguration. So before you start sensationalizing something do some research and then ask the question what is UA doing with the remaining 77W frames in the fleet.

Don't forget EWR-FRA and EWR-TLV

neomax · Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:15 am

Newbiepilot wrote:
neomax wrote:
I think this surprises no one with DL entering the market, but I definitely do not think it is worth downgrading NRT and TPE to a 772. What they should've done instead is gone for frequency and split the existing frequency into two 787's and keep the 77W's on the TPAC routes. India is a big market but NRT and TPE is where the money is and taking Polaris off of it and sending it to India instead is a recipe for disaster. Hopefully they have done their homework.

How do you know there is more money flying to NRT and TPE than India? New York to India has a lot of demand. UA is also the only airline offering one stop itineraries to India from smaller US cities that lack Transatlantic service. While EWR is more of an OD hub than transit hub, That traffic can be surprisingly high yielding.

Demand and yield are not the same thing. The demand is high on India but yields are definitely higher to NRT and TPE.

adi00654 · Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:24 am

neomax wrote:
Newbiepilot wrote:
neomax wrote:
I think this surprises no one with DL entering the market, but I definitely do not think it is worth downgrading NRT and TPE to a 772. What they should've done instead is gone for frequency and split the existing frequency into two 787's and keep the 77W's on the TPAC routes. India is a big market but NRT and TPE is where the money is and taking Polaris off of it and sending it to India instead is a recipe for disaster. Hopefully they have done their homework.

How do you know there is more money flying to NRT and TPE than India? New York to India has a lot of demand. UA is also the only airline offering one stop itineraries to India from smaller US cities that lack Transatlantic service. While EWR is more of an OD hub than transit hub, That traffic can be surprisingly high yielding.

Demand and yield are not the same thing. The demand is high on India but yields are definitely higher to NRT and TPE.

FYKI,There is huge demand and yield for UA in both BOM/DEL-EWR.They have been consistent since many years and are going good and have good business class traffic too.
You said that the move is a recipe to disaster.I am sorry,Why don't you see UA has been serving Non stop since years and they have their own loyal feed of traffic.

gsg013 · Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:31 am

As much as I am a DL or skyteam flyer I am seriously considering taking the EWR-BOM flight in J for my trip to India in December. I normally would do AF JFK-CDG-BOM but the new Polaris seat on the routes being non-stop may be enough to sway me over to flying UA for that trip.

aemoreira1981 · Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:14 am

I next expect HKG to go to the B77W, because if the pmCO frames go 10-abreast, they will be extremely restricted on the trip from EWR to HKG, unless that goes to a B789.

Cointrin330 · Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:24 am

EWRamp wrote:
jayunited wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
Swapping out the 77W for the 772 on SFO-NRT and SFO-TPE is concerning a bit, since SFO is supposedly the powerhouse hub for TPAC but Polaris isn't being taken off those two routes. Polaris is the brand for the UA long haul premium cabin and the 772 mods are underway so it's possible a refurbished 772 will operate those two routes by the time the plane swaps happen. Am not entirely sure this is in response to DL entering the market either (or re-entering it, from JFK). The original CO, then UA routes to India (EWR-BOM, EWR-DEL) have been successful for a long time and one of the few instances of a US airline operating nonstop to India that has worked. There is plenty of local O&D demand to draw from (VFR, business, and good connecting traffic through EWR). Perhaps UA is just responding to that demand accordingly.

I think you are jumping to all sort of conclusions without doing any research. So far I've only been able to find 4 routes that have confirmed 77W's they are EWR-NRT, EWR-BOM, SFO-HKG, and SFO-AKL. By the beginning or middle of November UA will have 18 frames in the fleet these 4 routes don't need 18 frames and with so many routes showing 77E for the fall/winter schedule UA doesn't have enough 77Es in the fleet to cover all these route especially when you take into account polaris installation will be going on with at least 2 77E frames perhaps 3 frames out of service at XMN for reconfiguration. So before you start sensationalizing something do some research and then ask the question what is UA doing with the remaining 77W frames in the fleet.

Don't forget EWR-FRA and EWR-TLV

EWR-FRA on the 77W runs from March 2018 to July 31st only. It goes back to the 772 in August. Only one of the two EWR-TLV flights is on the 77W. The mid-afternoon departure is on the 772. The 10:50PM is the 77W.

Newbiepilot · Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:58 am

b]

gsg013 wrote:
As much as I am a DL or skyteam flyer I am seriously considering taking the EWR-BOM flight in J for my trip to India in December. I normally would do AF JFK-CDG-BOM but the new Polaris seat on the routes being non-stop may be enough to sway me over to flying UA for that trip.

I have flown the nonstop and they are much better for jet lag if flying business class. Having 13-16 hours uninterrupted let’s you get as much sleep as you would like. The stop in Europe plus additional meal services don’t let you get a full night of rest on the fligh which for me increases jet lag.

neomax wrote:
Newbiepilot wrote:
neomax wrote:
I think this surprises no one with DL entering the market, but I definitely do not think it is worth downgrading NRT and TPE to a 772. What they should've done instead is gone for frequency and split the existing frequency into two 787's and keep the 77W's on the TPAC routes. India is a big market but NRT and TPE is where the money is and taking Polaris off of it and sending it to India instead is a recipe for disaster. Hopefully they have done their homework.

How do you know there is more money flying to NRT and TPE than India? New York to India has a lot of demand. UA is also the only airline offering one stop itineraries to India from smaller US cities that lack Transatlantic service. While EWR is more of an OD hub than transit hub, That traffic can be surprisingly high yielding.

Demand and yield are not the same thing. The demand is high on India but yields are definitely higher to NRT and TPE.

Again I am genuinely curious, how do you know yields are definitely higher to NRT and TPE. There is significant business travel to India so I’d like to know more about why yields aren’t as high.

binayak · Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:13 am

Well in 2019, due to DXB airport runway upgrade project, EK will reduce frequencies on many routes which includes all points in India except BOM.
Perhaps they know that with United Polaris and Delta One being together at BOM in 2019, EK might have tough time attracting business travellers. Real pressure on ME3 starts.

mattnrsa · Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:53 am

neomax wrote:
The demand is high on India but yields are definitely higher to NRT and TPE.

I agree NRT is high-yield but it’s also very well covered by existing flights. I wonder how high-yield TPE is given DL’s recent cancellation of service there.

LH658 · Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:48 am

gsg013 wrote:
As much as I am a DL or skyteam flyer I am seriously considering taking the EWR-BOM flight in J for my trip to India in December. I normally would do AF JFK-CDG-BOM but the new Polaris seat on the routes being non-stop may be enough to sway me over to flying UA for that trip.

Doesn't Joon operate Bombay now? How do you manage flying on AF old product for that long 2-3-2 angle flat seat.Good call take UA, or even LH.

Irehdna · Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:52 am

binayak wrote:
Well in 2019, due to DXB airport runway upgrade project, EK will reduce frequencies on many routes which includes all points in India except BOM.
Perhaps they know that with United Polaris and Delta One being together at BOM in 2019, EK might have tough time attracting business travellers. Real pressure on ME3 starts.

Yep and from what I have seen, EWR is the only east coast city to not see reduction in frequency. JFK will go from 14-12x weekly.

STT757 · Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:21 am

When UA originally ordered the 77Ws they mentioned they were predominately for EWR, especially EWR-TLV, BOM, HKG, NRT, FRA etc.. They still had the A350-1000 on order which would replace the 744s starting in 2019. UA decided to expedite the retirement of the 744s, and thus needed the 77Ws in SFO. They then converted and deferred the A350 order. There were rumors of an order of four more 77Ws, bringing the fleet to 22 frames. I think that's what's needed to bring increase the EWR flying while maintaining the SFO routes.

EWR-
FRA, TLV, BOM, HKG, NRT

binayak · Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:27 pm

LH658 wrote:
gsg013 wrote:
As much as I am a DL or skyteam flyer I am seriously considering taking the EWR-BOM flight in J for my trip to India in December. I normally would do AF JFK-CDG-BOM but the new Polaris seat on the routes being non-stop may be enough to sway me over to flying UA for that trip.

Doesn't Joon operate Bombay now? How do you manage flying on AF old product for that long 2-3-2 angle flat seat.Good call take UA, or even LH.

if he is a skyteam FF, then taking LH or UA won't give him any return. He just wanted to try the United Polaris in this route. if he wants to travel more comfortably than Joon in NYC BOM sector, he can even take KL or VS 9W combination.

CALAV8R · Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:43 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
Do we think this is in direct response to DL potentially offering JFK-BOM? Manhattan origin/destination pax are pretty much up for grabs between JFK/EWR. The 77W has 60 J class seats. I guess UA knows what they are doing but wow that is a big premium cabin. Plus there doesn't seem to be Premium Econ (which I think is really needed on the EWR-India routes - the region has some affluent VFR that can afford a $2500 Premium Eco ticket but not a $8k J ticket). That said, BOM has seen a lot of new route announcements. Maybe yields are improving as the ME3 have maxed out capacity and EY is shrinking.

Also I wonder if UA will swap aircraft on this route - something like EWR-BOM 77W during the winter and SFO-TLV 77W during the summer?

UA's 77W's will be getting Premium Economy (Premium Plus). Current plan is for 24 Premium Y seats.

CaliguyNYC · Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:19 pm

CALAV8R wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
Do we think this is in direct response to DL potentially offering JFK-BOM? Manhattan origin/destination pax are pretty much up for grabs between JFK/EWR. The 77W has 60 J class seats. I guess UA knows what they are doing but wow that is a big premium cabin. Plus there doesn't seem to be Premium Econ (which I think is really needed on the EWR-India routes - the region has some affluent VFR that can afford a $2500 Premium Eco ticket but not a $8k J ticket). That said, BOM has seen a lot of new route announcements. Maybe yields are improving as the ME3 have maxed out capacity and EY is shrinking.

Also I wonder if UA will swap aircraft on this route - something like EWR-BOM 77W during the winter and SFO-TLV 77W during the summer?

UA's 77W's will be getting Premium Economy (Premium Plus). Current plan is for 24 Premium Y seats.

I think that is going to be a game changer on the EWR-BOM route. It is so god dam long. It is sort of amazing that US-India traffic gets painted as only bargain basement when the US based population is relatively affluent and professional (meaning they travel for work). US VFR are a prime demo for PRem Econ. Good for UA to do the aircraft change. Hope DL picks JFK-BOM (and their plan is also to have Prem Econ). The way you compete with the ME3 is to actually compete. You. Put your best product forward and offer convenient flight times / nonstops. For those who don’t fly to india a lot. Arriving at an airport in India at 2am and departing at 4am is a nightmare many people would like to avoid (and will pay a bit of a premium)

iadadd · Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:11 pm

Irehdna wrote:
binayak wrote:
Well in 2019, due to DXB airport runway upgrade project, EK will reduce frequencies on many routes which includes all points in India except BOM.
Perhaps they know that with United Polaris and Delta One being together at BOM in 2019, EK might have tough time attracting business travellers. Real pressure on ME3 starts.

Yep and from what I have seen, EWR is the only east coast city to not see reduction in frequency. JFK will go from 14-12x weekly.

The nonstop EWR flight is getting axed during the runway project. DXB-ATH-EWR remains
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... e-project/

Irehdna · Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:20 pm

Yeah in all honesty I don't know how AI can compete with UA/DL/EK for BOM-EWR, especially for business traffic (which is where much of the revenue will be generated). This flight previously thrived due to AMD connection and lack of stiff non-stop competition. With UA and DL upping their game, I wouldn't be surprised if AI cancel this flight or at least move it to ORD.

The 2007-era product of AI cannot compare to the (soon to be) 2017 products of UA/DL.

binayak · Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:21 pm

Irehdna wrote:
Yeah in all honesty I don't know how AI can compete with UA/DL/EK for BOM-EWR, especially for business traffic (which is where much of the revenue will be generated). This flight previously thrived due to AMD connection and lack of stiff non-stop competition. With UA and DL upping their game, I wouldn't be surprised if AI cancel this flight or at least move it to ORD.

The 2007-era product of AI cannot compare to the (soon to be) 2017 products of UA/DL.

AI arrival time of the return flight to BOM is suitable for some VFR to night arrival of UA at BOM.

jumbojet · Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:05 pm

amazing how an airline can announce a route which causes another airline to force it to up its game.

stl07 · Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:23 pm

jumbojet wrote:
amazing how an airline can announce a route which causes another airline to force it to up its game.

And they haven't even announced anything yet besides an empty intention

ronitkadam777 · Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:48 pm

Definitely agreed with you here about the product Air India 777s have.

There have been news about Air India refurbishing their business / first class product on their US bound wide body aircraft. But they really need to step up their economy class. Bigger IFE screens and Wi-Fi onboard seems to be the basic necessity of an Ultra Long Haul aircraft in 2018.

I think, the only good thing about AI's 777 is that they still have a roomier 3-3-3 configuration in Y.

Plus AI really needs to pair up with a US based airline on its EWR end for connections, its impossible to connect onto the EWR-BOM flight if your origin or destination is not EWR.

Irehdna wrote:
Yeah in all honesty I don't know how AI can compete with UA/DL/EK for BOM-EWR, especially for business traffic (which is where much of the revenue will be generated). This flight previously thrived due to AMD connection and lack of stiff non-stop competition. With UA and DL upping their game, I wouldn't be surprised if AI cancel this flight or at least move it to ORD.

The 2007-era product of AI cannot compare to the (soon to be) 2017 products of UA/DL.

Amwest2United · Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:46 am

STT757 wrote:
When UA originally ordered the 77Ws they mentioned they were predominately for EWR, especially EWR-TLV, BOM, HKG, NRT, FRA etc.. They still had the A350-1000 on order which would replace the 744s starting in 2019. UA decided to expedite the retirement of the 744s, and thus needed the 77Ws in SFO. They then converted and deferred the A350 order. There were rumors of an order of four more 77Ws, bringing the fleet to 22 frames. I think that's what's needed to bring increase the EWR flying while maintaining the SFO routes.

EWR-
FRA, TLV, BOM, HKG, NRT

Routing speculation for November 2018....
EWR-HKG-SFO-AKL-SFO-HKG-EWR-TLV-EWR-NRT-EWR-BOM-EWR-PVG-EWR-TLV-EWR

VTORD · Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:47 am

ronitkadam777 wrote:
Plus AI really needs to pair up with a US based airline on its EWR end for connections, its impossible to connect onto the EWR-BOM flight if your origin or destination is not EWR.

The only airline that can provide them decent feed at EWR is UA and I don't see them feeding AI over one of their most popular flights.

Who is online

Popular Searches On Airliners.net