A month in, how are UA’s summer E-175 “ULR” routes doing?

flyfresno · Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:11 pm

It’s been a month since United began FAT-ORD and MSN-SFO. After 30 days of service, how are these routes doing?

From seat maps, it appears FAT-ORD is doing well with coach full most nights (especially the redeye to ORD), and First about half full before upgrades. MSN has had some pretty open days and also some full days.

So, does anyone with more experience know how these routes are performing beyond what’s available from seat maps?

drdisque · Sat Jul 07, 2018 10:07 pm

PSP-ORD has operated for months and is just as long, but is also clearly seasonal and leisure-oriented.

TUS-ORD has stuck on the E-175 for about a year and though it isn't as long, it's telling it has stuck.

ericm2031 · Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:45 pm

drdisque wrote:
PSP-ORD has operated for months and is just as long, but is also clearly seasonal and leisure-oriented.

TUS-ORD has stuck on the E-175 for about a year and though it isn't as long, it's telling it has stuck.

PSP-ORD doesn’t operate during the summer and has been running for years, it also sees a mix of mainline.

drdisque · Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:53 am

It hasn't been an E-175 for years. Until this winter it was just a seasonal mainline route that operated only during peak season (Jan-Mar typically) with the E-175 it is operating roughly Nov-May and only sees mainline for a few weeks.

Freshside3 · Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:17 am

Is GEG-ORD back?

jetskipper · Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:27 am

Freshside3 wrote:
Is GEG-ORD back?

737-900 Red-Eye

Jo8338 · Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:58 am

Ord -pbi is long also

32andBelow · Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:30 am

An e175 is much more comfortable than a 737/a320. I welcome this trend with open arms.

Newbiepilot · Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:46 am

The only drawback for the E175 is no ovens in first class. Despite flights being long enough for a full meal service, first class dinner is often a salad with a side of salad. The flip side is having 12F seats mean some upgrades usually clear.

FATFlyer · Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:11 am

This is a good time to post this again.

These are United's 10 current longest regional jet routes.
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=SFO-MSN/ST ... =2&MS=wls2

32andBelow · Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:30 am

Newbiepilot wrote:
The only drawback for the E175 is no ovens in first class. Despite flights being long enough for a full meal service, first class dinner is often a salad with a side of salad. The flip side is having 12F seats mean some upgrades usually clear.

Why can’t they just board warm food?

Flydude1063 · Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:14 am

"Why can’t they just board warm food?"

How exactly is the food supposed to stay warm until it's served?

Grandforks12 · Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:39 am

SFO-MSN is operating at around 78% fill and MSN-SFO is at roughly 88%. The main reason for the difference is the morning departure out of SFO is 830am which means anyone connecting through has a tough time. So far so good!

Acey · Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:56 am

FATFlyer wrote:
This is a good time to post this again.

These are United's 10 current longest regional jet routes.
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=SFO-MSN/ST ... =2&MS=wls2

Are you including Jazz as part of United for some reason? IAH-YYC has not been operated by a regional United jet in ages.

KLMatSJC · Sun Jul 08, 2018 9:44 am

I did SFO-STL-SFO on an ERJ-175 a few years ago. Definitely one of the more comfortable rides I've been on with UA, despite the length of the flight. Albeit, I was in Y+.

ericm2031 · Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:09 am

drdisque wrote:
It hasn't been an E-175 for years. Until this winter it was just a seasonal mainline route that operated only during peak season (Jan-Mar typically) with the E-175 it is operating roughly Nov-May and only sees mainline for a few weeks.

I'm seeing E175's in January 2016

jetmatt777 · Sun Jul 08, 2018 12:12 pm

Remember that loads don’t always tell the full story.

And even the direct financials don’t either. Some flights are run despite losses due to strategic implications (strengthening a city to secure travel contracts that would bolster other routes) or down line contributions (feed). It’s just really hard to tell as there’s so many reasons an airline will run a route that is losing money. Generally if it sticks for a year or more it’s hitting whatever goal they had for the flight whether that be he strict financials of its flight or fulfilling a strategic role.

Not saying that these long routes are making or losing, just that they have the possibility of existing for other reasons than the pure bottom line of that sector.

FATFlyer · Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:17 pm

Acey wrote:
FATFlyer wrote:
This is a good time to post this again.

These are United's 10 current longest regional jet routes.
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=SFO-MSN/ST ... =2&MS=wls2

Are you including Jazz as part of United for some reason? IAH-YYC has not been operated by a regional United jet in ages.

I did not create the map. It was posted on Great Circle's blog, the map creator is listed on this blog page:
http://www.gcmap.com/featured/20180607

as739x · Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:24 pm

I'd say they are doing well. The E175 is a good aircraft to launch some of these new routes and let them mature. Sure better then the CR7 they started AUS/SAT/XNA to SFO with. The challenge will be going into the winter season, especially on westbound legs and SFO. Numerous times out of STL, I was held off till the last minute boarding non-rev cabin or jumpseat on STL-SFO due to weight restrictions. Personally I love seeing UA use the 175 to start new routes.

friendlyskies22 · Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:51 pm

Everyone I've talked to loves the 175, and some folks don't even realize
they are on a UAx aircraft. 1+2 F and 2+2 Y seating rocks.
Now if UA could put that aircraft on routes like FAT-DEN where folks hate
the cramped CR2 (close connections - waiting for gate checked bags)
life would be good. Gotta show F9 who's the boss out of FAT.

kgaiflyer · Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:52 pm

Flydude1063 wrote:
"Why can’t they just board warm food?"

How exactly is the food supposed to stay warm until it's served?

When YVR-SFO had AC Rouge service (versus AC mainline) they loaded hot meals for J class in Vancouver.

But by serving time, plates were barely luke-warm. My understanding is that food must be served at 140F or above.

Swadian · Sun Jul 08, 2018 9:11 pm

jetskipper wrote:
Freshside3 wrote:
Is GEG-ORD back?

737-900 Red-Eye

739 to GEG?!

ericm2031 · Sun Jul 08, 2018 9:41 pm

friendlyskies22 wrote:
Everyone I've talked to loves the 175, and some folks don't even realize
they are on a UAx aircraft. 1+2 F and 2+2 Y seating rocks.
Now if UA could put that aircraft on routes like FAT-DEN where folks hate
the cramped CR2 (close connections - waiting for gate checked bags)
life would be good. Gotta show F9 who's the boss out of FAT.

Same with SBA and PSP. UA has been top dog for so long at these airports and F9 is coming back and is challenging them.

as739x · Sun Jul 08, 2018 9:42 pm

Swadian wrote:
jetskipper wrote:
Freshside3 wrote:
Is GEG-ORD back?

737-900 Red-Eye

739 to GEG?!

Yep! Shows UA486 back as UA1809 a 739 this evening

yonikasz · Sun Jul 08, 2018 9:43 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
Remember that loads don’t always tell the full story. Some flights are run despite losses due to strategic implications

Yah as a favor from Jeff for a Port Authority chairman.

jb1087xna · Sun Jul 08, 2018 10:02 pm

as739x wrote:
The E175 is a good aircraft to launch some of these new routes and let them mature. Sure better then the CR7 they started AUS/SAT/XNA to SFO with.

For sure. I'm doing SFO-XNA at the end of the month. Did spring for an upgrade to F given the length and the price wasn't too crazy.

Jshank83 · Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:07 am

KLMatSJC wrote:
I did SFO-STL-SFO on an ERJ-175 a few years ago. Definitely one of the more comfortable rides I've been on with UA, despite the length of the flight. Albeit, I was in Y+.

I've flown SFO-STL in Y. I really enjoyed it. I would pick to fly that over a mainline Y any day.

burnsie28 · Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:40 am

32andBelow wrote:
Newbiepilot wrote:
The only drawback for the E175 is no ovens in first class. Despite flights being long enough for a full meal service, first class dinner is often a salad with a side of salad. The flip side is having 12F seats mean some upgrades usually clear.

Why can’t they just board warm food?

They wouldn't have a way to keep the food at a temperature required by the FDA.

32andBelow · Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:13 am

burnsie28 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Newbiepilot wrote:
The only drawback for the E175 is no ovens in first class. Despite flights being long enough for a full meal service, first class dinner is often a salad with a side of salad. The flip side is having 12F seats mean some upgrades usually clear.

Why can’t they just board warm food?

They wouldn't have a way to keep the food at a temperature required by the FDA.

It’s 2018. I’m sure they could create an insulated cart. Possibly with a built in heat element.

burnsie28 · Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:26 am

32andBelow wrote:
burnsie28 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Why can’t they just board warm food?

They wouldn't have a way to keep the food at a temperature required by the FDA.

It’s 2018. I’m sure they could create an insulated cart. Possibly with a built in heat element.

There are still rules as to how long something can be waiting from the time its initially cooked. Given how early many of the meals have to be prepared it wouldn't come close to meeting those requirements. Example, Qdoba, Chipotle, etc cook some meats in the morning and keep it in the warmer, it may maintain a certain temp, but it times out after 3 hours IIRC.

Second a cart with heating element, which would need to be developed, tested, certified and would take a couple years or more to complete and would also require new galleys that have wiring etc to provide power to those carts. At that point it would be far easier and cheaper put in an oven.

32andBelow · Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:33 am

burnsie28 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
burnsie28 wrote:

They wouldn't have a way to keep the food at a temperature required by the FDA.

It’s 2018. I’m sure they could create an insulated cart. Possibly with a built in heat element.

There are still rules as to how long something can be waiting from the time its initially cooked. Given how early many of the meals have to be prepared it wouldn't come close to meeting those requirements. Example, Qdoba, Chipotle, etc cook some meats in the morning and keep it in the warmer, it may maintain a certain temp, but it times out after 3 hours IIRC.

Second a cart with heating element, which would need to be developed, tested, certified and would take a couple years or more to complete and would also require new galleys that have wiring etc to provide power to those carts. At that point it would be far easier and cheaper put in an oven.

Alaska is facing this same oven problem with the virgin plane. Someone should develop this heated cart imo.

Newbiepilot · Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:08 pm

32andBelow wrote:
burnsie28 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Why can’t they just board warm food?

They wouldn't have a way to keep the food at a temperature required by the FDA.

It’s 2018. I’m sure they could create an insulated cart. Possibly with a built in heat element.

At that point they should spend the money and just install an oven in the galley. Embraer offers one as an option. I think the problem is that when United originally ordered the E175s, they did not have fresh food service on regional jets so felt no need to purchase ovens with the planes. Fresh meal service in first class on regional jets is a relatively recent addition.

Newbiepilot · Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:12 pm

32andBelow wrote:
burnsie28 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
It’s 2018. I’m sure they could create an insulated cart. Possibly with a built in heat element.

There are still rules as to how long something can be waiting from the time its initially cooked. Given how early many of the meals have to be prepared it wouldn't come close to meeting those requirements. Example, Qdoba, Chipotle, etc cook some meats in the morning and keep it in the warmer, it may maintain a certain temp, but it times out after 3 hours IIRC.

Second a cart with heating element, which would need to be developed, tested, certified and would take a couple years or more to complete and would also require new galleys that have wiring etc to provide power to those carts. At that point it would be far easier and cheaper put in an oven.

Alaska is facing this same oven problem with the virgin plane. Someone should develop this heated cart imo.

Or they should go ahead install ovens in the rear galleys when reconfiguring them. Given how much of a premium airline that Virgin wanted to be, ovens didn’t make sense in their service on demand style of operation.

longhauler · Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:22 pm

With regard to warm food, a few points ...

Rouge has ovens in both J and Y. Full meals in J, hot sandwiches in Y.

Air Canada originally had no ovens in the E175/E190s and the J service was great. Cold beef/chicken/salmon, etc, but the decision was made later on to add hot ovens. So it can be done.

United used to use "genie trays" in Y service. Meals were boarded hot and the insolated trays kept the food warm. It made for very quick service. But as one would note, Y hot meals were quite some time ago. The trays were very cumbersome ... quite thick and had to stack to stay warm.

Boof02671 · Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:23 pm

They already make cold and hot carts plane has to be equipped to handle them.

MIflyer12 · Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:16 pm

32andBelow wrote:
Alaska is facing this same oven problem with the virgin plane. Someone should develop this heated cart imo.

IIRC, circa 2007, JAL 744s had serving trays with heating elements. Very clever, I thought, although I wouldn't want to be responsible for the many connectors in the cart.

USAirALB · Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:03 pm

I believe US 762s also used carts with heating elements in the YCL cabin, as Y galleys lacked ovens IIRC.

IIRC on CLT-Brazil flights for example that were operated by 762s, there would be a full hot meal after take off and then a cold meal service before arrival. But on A332s there would be another full hot meal service prior to arrival in Y. As on the 762 the first meal service in Y was complete, the trays would be put back into the carts making another hot meal service not possible.

I don’t know if it would be possible logistically speaking to add such equipment to an E jet. I do know AS and some DL E jets have full hot galleys.

tbboko802 · Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:22 pm

DAY-IAH is now being flown with a E175 instead of the 50 seat Embraer.

fly2yyz · Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:02 am

kgaiflyer wrote:
Flydude1063 wrote:
"Why can’t they just board warm food?"

How exactly is the food supposed to stay warm until it's served?

When YVR-SFO had AC Rouge service (versus AC mainline) they loaded hot meals for J class in Vancouver.

But by serving time, plates were barely luke-warm. My understanding is that food must be served at 140F or above.

You sure?....Rouge 319s have ovens...

phllax · Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:18 am

USAirALB wrote:
I believe US 762s also used carts with heating elements in the YCL cabin, as Y galleys lacked ovens IIRC.

They used steam carts that plugged in back in the galley.

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