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From Boeing AA will acquire 200 additional 737s with options for another 100
From Airbus AA will acquire 260 new A320s and will have 365 options and buying rights for more aircraft
fightforlove wrote:Wikipedia states AA have 100 of the A321neos on order, the articles linked above from the order date state 130 of the neo type. Did the order get altered? Are AA planning to order any A320 or A319 models at some point?
fightforlove wrote:Wikipedia states AA have 100 of the A321neos on order, the articles linked above from the order date state 130 of the neo type. Did the order get altered? Are AA planning to order any A320 or A319 models at some point?
Ionosphere wrote:I've heard the reason why US went all Airbus was the crash of USAir 427. There was some animosity between USAir mgmt & Boeing regarding the crash.
PlanesNTrains wrote:Ionosphere wrote:I've heard the reason why US went all Airbus was the crash of USAir 427. There was some animosity between USAir mgmt & Boeing regarding the crash.
There may have been, but I believe the CEO at the time had a good relationship with Airbus as well. Also, at that time Airbus was still trying to really break into the US market in a big way, and I'm sure this deal was part of that strategy.
Ionosphere wrote:I've heard the reason why US went all Airbus was the crash of USAir 427. There was some animosity between USAir mgmt & Boeing regarding the crash.
keesje wrote:PlanesNTrains wrote:Ionosphere wrote:I've heard the reason why US went all Airbus was the crash of USAir 427. There was some animosity between USAir mgmt & Boeing regarding the crash.
There may have been, but I believe the CEO at the time had a good relationship with Airbus as well. Also, at that time Airbus was still trying to really break into the US market in a big way, and I'm sure this deal was part of that strategy.
Yes that could be. Maybe also the A321 suited the US networks best & most other US operators drew the same conclusion later on.
fightforlove wrote:Can someone break down the specifics of American's blockbuster deal back in '11 for the 460 Airbuses?
If I am counting right, they've since firmed and taken delivery of 100 A321ceos and have 100 firm orders for A321neos to be delivered beginning 2019. That would be 200 planes. What are the other 260 orders/options for?
keesje wrote:PlanesNTrains wrote:Ionosphere wrote:I've heard the reason why US went all Airbus was the crash of USAir 427. There was some animosity between USAir mgmt & Boeing regarding the crash.
There may have been, but I believe the CEO at the time had a good relationship with Airbus as well. Also, at that time Airbus was still trying to really break into the US market in a big way, and I'm sure this deal was part of that strategy.
Yes that could be. Maybe also the A321 suited the US networks best & most other US operators drew the same conclusion later on.
Jayafe wrote:PlanesNTrains wrote:keesje wrote:The deal was really presented as a split, but:
http://www.businessinsider.com/americans--airlines-buys-460-planes-boeing-airbus-2011-7?international=true&r=US&IR=T
American was friendly and supportive towards Boeing, but the bottom line was clear.
Boeing launched the MAX in 4 weeks for AA. A model was not yet available at signing.
https://goo.gl/images/3Cc4Q8
So now, to be "a split", it has to be 50/50?
https://www.dailynews.com/2013/09/19/lu ... ng-airbus/
"Lufthansa splits $19B order between Boeing, Airbus
German airline Lufthansa is ordering 34 new jets from Boeing and 25 from European rival Airbus as it updates its long-haul fleet to make it more fuel efficient and lower costs."
Let's do some maths:
LH >> 34 + 25 >> 57% B and 43% A
AA >> 300 + 625 >> 32% B and 68% A
Feel free to put the "split" line at your best convenience, but 50ish is always going to be closer to it than +2/3.
VW.
brooklynchris13 wrote:fightforlove wrote:Can someone break down the specifics of American's blockbuster deal back in '11 for the 460 Airbuses?
If I am counting right, they've since firmed and taken delivery of 100 A321ceos and have 100 firm orders for A321neos to be delivered beginning 2019. That would be 200 planes. What are the other 260 orders/options for?
Hello FightforLove, the actual answer to your question seems to have gotten bogged down, but here is a press-release from AMR at the time of the order:
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data ... dex992.htm
As others have hinted at, the order was for a combination of Airbus and Boeing narrow bodies.
One the Airbus side, the order was fulfilled with a mix of: A321 and A319 CEO. The mix was changed after the merger and ended up being more heavily to the 321 than the 319. (one reason being the legacy US 319s that were brought on board). The remaining part of that order are the A321NEOs and whatever options remain out there.
On the Boeing side, the end result was 100 B738s and the currently in the process of being delivered 100 737 MAX8s along with options there as well.
So to summarize:
Airbus- 260 aircraft + Options .. but the end result: (32) A319s & (98) A321s already delivered (right on line with the press release); (100) A321 NEOs on order= total approximately 230 aircraft instead of the 260 referenced.
Boeing- 200 aircraft + Options.. the end result... (100) B738 + (100 MAX8)
I do not know where the previous 738 order stopped and the new one began in terms of A/C reg numbers, maybe someone else can share that. If anyone has any other insight, please feel free to share!
PlanesNTrains wrote:keesje wrote:PlanesNTrains wrote:
There may have been, but I believe the CEO at the time had a good relationship with Airbus as well. Also, at that time Airbus was still trying to really break into the US market in a big way, and I'm sure this deal was part of that strategy.
Yes that could be. Maybe also the A321 suited the US networks best & most other US operators drew the same conclusion later on.
In reference to the big US Airways order, which is what I was replying to, the assumption was that the A320 fit their needs well since they bought it. I don't remember the A321 having anything to do with that, though. I'm sure it was the technical merits of the A320 family, the price and financing, and delivery flexibility.
grbauc wrote:PlanesNTrains wrote:keesje wrote:
Yes that could be. Maybe also the A321 suited the US networks best & most other US operators drew the same conclusion later on.
In reference to the big US Airways order, which is what I was replying to, the assumption was that the A320 fit their needs well since they bought it. I don't remember the A321 having anything to do with that, though. I'm sure it was the technical merits of the A320 family, the price and financing, and delivery flexibility.
When HP DP came into the US Airways Control I believe He/HP was a A321 Operator that saw the potential of the A321 and moved US and now AA into using the A321 so much. It use to in the beginning have problems with Trans-cons in winter, but that was fixed with time.
PlanesNTrains wrote:grbauc wrote:PlanesNTrains wrote:
In reference to the big US Airways order, which is what I was replying to, the assumption was that the A320 fit their needs well since they bought it. I don't remember the A321 having anything to do with that, though. I'm sure it was the technical merits of the A320 family, the price and financing, and delivery flexibility.
When HP DP came into the US Airways Control I believe He/HP was a A321 Operator that saw the potential of the A321 and moved US and now AA into using the A321 so much. It use to in the beginning have problems with Trans-cons in winter, but that was fixed with time.
True. I was responding to comments about the initial order back in the 90s.
grbauc wrote:PlanesNTrains wrote:keesje wrote:
Yes that could be. Maybe also the A321 suited the US networks best & most other US operators drew the same conclusion later on.
In reference to the big US Airways order, which is what I was replying to, the assumption was that the A320 fit their needs well since they bought it. I don't remember the A321 having anything to do with that, though. I'm sure it was the technical merits of the A320 family, the price and financing, and delivery flexibility.
When HP DP came into the US Airways Control I believe He/HP was a A321 Operator that saw the potential of the A321 and moved US and now AA into using the A321 so much. It use to in the beginning have problems with Trans-cons in winter, but that was fixed with time.
PlanesNTrains wrote:keesje wrote:PlanesNTrains wrote:
There may have been, but I believe the CEO at the time had a good relationship with Airbus as well. Also, at that time Airbus was still trying to really break into the US market in a big way, and I'm sure this deal was part of that strategy.
Yes that could be. Maybe also the A321 suited the US networks best & most other US operators drew the same conclusion later on.
In reference to the big US Airways order, which is what I was replying to, the assumption was that the A320 fit their needs well since they bought it. I don't remember the A321 having anything to do with that, though. I'm sure it was the technical merits of the A320 family, the price and financing, and delivery flexibility.
brooklynchris13 wrote:fightforlove wrote:Can someone break down the specifics of American's blockbuster deal back in '11 for the 460 Airbuses?
If I am counting right, they've since firmed and taken delivery of 100 A321ceos and have 100 firm orders for A321neos to be delivered beginning 2019. That would be 200 planes. What are the other 260 orders/options for?
Hello FightforLove, the actual answer to your question seems to have gotten bogged down, but here is a press-release from AMR at the time of the order:
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data ... dex992.htm
As others have hinted at, the order was for a combination of Airbus and Boeing narrow bodies.
One the Airbus side, the order was fulfilled with a mix of: A321 and A319 CEO. The mix was changed after the merger and ended up being more heavily to the 321 than the 319. (one reason being the legacy US 319s that were brought on board). The remaining part of that order are the A321NEOs and whatever options remain out there.
On the Boeing side, the end result was 100 B738s and the currently in the process of being delivered 100 737 MAX8s along with options there as well.
So to summarize:
Airbus- 260 aircraft + Options .. but the end result: (32) A319s & (98) A321s already delivered (right on line with the press release); (100) A321 NEOs on order= total approximately 230 aircraft instead of the 260 referenced.
Boeing- 200 aircraft + Options.. the end result... (100) B738 + (100 MAX8)
I do not know where the previous 738 order stopped and the new one began in terms of A/C reg numbers, maybe someone else can share that. If anyone has any other insight, please feel free to share!
Cointrin330 wrote:...and was the first time that United placed an order for jets that did not come from Boeing or McDonnell Douglas.
BN727227Ultra wrote:Cointrin330 wrote:...and was the first time that United placed an order for jets that did not come from Boeing or McDonnell Douglas.
There's a Caravelle (or parts thereof) that'd like a word with you...
Cointrin330 wrote:BN727227Ultra wrote:Cointrin330 wrote:...and was the first time that United placed an order for jets that did not come from Boeing or McDonnell Douglas.
There's a Caravelle (or parts thereof) that'd like a word with you...
Oh yes...you're so right. Forgot about that...before my time. Well before my time, but they definitely did fly the Caravelle...