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FA9295
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Re: Sun Country adds 5 routes from PDX

Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:17 am

Dreamflight767 wrote:
Not that it's a hug significance but this must be a pain to AS. Do they have free resources to defend against this small battle with SY?

AS already has a major fleet/pilot shortage as it is, so I don't think they can do much against SY here.
Next flights:
PDX-MSP-PDX (Delta)
PDX-LAX-MIA (American)
MCO-DFW-PDX (American)
 
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RWA380
Posts: 4990
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:51 am

Re: Sun Country adds 5 routes from PDX

Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:44 am

Dreamflight767 wrote:
Not that it's a hug significance but this must be a pain to AS. Do they have free resources to defend against this small battle with SY?


These are all easy routes to fill planes on in the winter from PDX. 4 carriers on PDX-HNL, IIRC this is a first, for the short time DL operates it's seasonal non-stop.
707, 717, 720, 727-1/2, 737-1/2/3/4/5/7/8/9, 747-1/2/3/4, 757, 767-2/3/4, 777, DC-8-5/6/7, DC-9-1/3/5, MD-80/2/3/7/8, DC-10-10/30/40, MD-11, F-27, F-28, SWM, J31, D38, DH7, DH8, DH4 SD-330, B-146, L-1011-2/500, ATR-42/72, VCV, A-300/310/318/319/320, CR2/7
 
Dreamflight767
Posts: 439
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:43 pm

Re: Sun Country adds 5 routes from PDX

Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:33 am

RWA380 wrote:
Dreamflight767 wrote:
Not that it's a hug significance but this must be a pain to AS. Do they have free resources to defend against this small battle with SY?


These are all easy routes to fill planes on in the winter from PDX. 4 carriers on PDX-HNL, IIRC this is a first, for the short time DL operates it's seasonal non-stop.


I hear what you're saying but my question, does AS have the planes available? As I've read around here, AS seems to be fighting much bigger battles in CA and up in SEA.

Not that I have anything against AS, but it would be interesting to see if SY can gain any traction and grow in PDX as AS seems to think throwing a bunch of Q400 up to SEA is a way to maintain hub status.

That said, a lot of airlines have come, gone, and shrunk significantly at PDX so maybe SY doesn't stand a chance.

And yes, DL (or maybe it was NW) did have a flight to HNL. It was an early evening flight (around 17:00 Local) and rotated between a 752 and the 753.
 
pdxav8r
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Re: Sun Country adds 5 routes from PDX

Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:54 am

Dreamflight767 wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
Dreamflight767 wrote:
Not that it's a hug significance but this must be a pain to AS. Do they have free resources to defend against this small battle with SY?


These are all easy routes to fill planes on in the winter from PDX. 4 carriers on PDX-HNL, IIRC this is a first, for the short time DL operates it's seasonal non-stop.


I hear what you're saying but my question, does AS have the planes available? As I've read around here, AS seems to be fighting much bigger battles in CA and up in SEA.

Not that I have anything against AS, but it would be interesting to see if SY can gain any traction and grow in PDX as AS seems to think throwing a bunch of Q400 up to SEA is a way to maintain hub status.

That said, a lot of airlines have come, gone, and shrunk significantly at PDX so maybe SY doesn't stand a chance.

And yes, DL (or maybe it was NW) did have a flight to HNL. It was an early evening flight (around 17:00 Local) and rotated between a 752 and the 753.


I will answer your question. WTF are you smoking? Defend against an airline offering seasonal service for two, maybe three flights per day against AS in PDX? A small battle? Dude (or dudette), really? SY is picking low hanging fruit, like most low cost airlines. SY’s route planner is from AS, so they know where to pick and choose at PDX. No worry about the resources to deal with a fly in the ointment.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 8104
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Sun Country adds 5 routes from PDX

Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:54 am

Dreamflight767 wrote:
Not that I have anything against AS, but it would be interesting to see if SY can gain any traction and grow in PDX as AS seems to think throwing a bunch of Q400 up to SEA is a way to maintain hub status..


Current AS schedule (this is 7/23/2018 - from the AS Hub thread):

PDX:
319: 3
320: 6
73G: 5
738: 28
739: 17
DH4: 56
E75: 32 (12 QX, 20 OO)

Total = 147
40.1% Mainline

A lot of smaller planes, but realistically almost 2/3 are either mainline or Ejets. I think PDX has actually done pretty well with AS of late, though certainly AS is notorious (if that's the right word) for building up places then bringing them back down, for example, San Jose (in past years). However, 147 daily flights - 59 on mainline alone - is a pretty good number, and certainly a bit more than primarily Q's to SEA. :-)
-Dave
 
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FA9295
Topic Author
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Re: Sun Country adds 5 routes from PDX

Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:32 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
pdxav8r wrote:
Dreamflight767 wrote:

I hear what you're saying but my question, does AS have the planes available? As I've read around here, AS seems to be fighting much bigger battles in CA and up in SEA.

Not that I have anything against AS, but it would be interesting to see if SY can gain any traction and grow in PDX as AS seems to think throwing a bunch of Q400 up to SEA is a way to maintain hub status.

That said, a lot of airlines have come, gone, and shrunk significantly at PDX so maybe SY doesn't stand a chance.

And yes, DL (or maybe it was NW) did have a flight to HNL. It was an early evening flight (around 17:00 Local) and rotated between a 752 and the 753.


I will answer your question. WTF are you smoking? Defend against an airline offering seasonal service for two, maybe three flights per day against AS in PDX? A small battle? Dude (or dudette), really? SY is picking low hanging fruit, like most low cost airlines. SY’s route planner is from AS, so they know where to pick and choose at PDX. No worry about the resources to deal with a fly in the ointment.

Current AS schedule (this is 7/23/2018 - from the AS Hub thread):

PDX:
319: 3
320: 6
73G: 5
738: 28
739: 17
DH4: 56
E75: 32 (12 QX, 20 OO)

Total = 147
40.1% Mainline

A lot of smaller planes, but realistically almost 2/3 are either mainline or Ejets. I think PDX has actually done pretty well with AS of late, though certainly AS is notorious (if that's the right word) for building up places then bringing them back down, for example, San Jose (in past years). However, 147 daily flights - 59 on mainline alone - is a pretty good number, and certainly a bit more than primarily Q's to SEA. :-)

I think Dreamflight767's point is that AS is ending some routes from PDX and moving them to SEA. When PDX-STL ended, SEA got an extra flight to STL. However, at the same time, PDX-SEA gets a large increase in frequencies. With that being said, it's probable to infer that AS is using the local PDX traffic in the war against DL at SEA. In ending some PDX routes, moving them to SEA, and then increasing PDX-SEA frequencies, AS can get more passengers on their SEA flights to better compete against DL.
Next flights:
PDX-MSP-PDX (Delta)
PDX-LAX-MIA (American)
MCO-DFW-PDX (American)
 
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spinkid
Posts: 1551
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Re: Sun Country adds 5 routes from PDX

Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:31 am

Somewhat off topic, but in looking at the route map. I realized Reno is the only city that doesn't connect with MSP. It's only service will be to PDX.

I imagine RNO-MSP must be coming soon
 
Jshank83
Posts: 1646
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Sun Country adds 5 routes from PDX

Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:17 pm

FA9295 wrote:

When PDX-STL ended, SEA got an extra flight to STL. However, at the same time, PDX-SEA gets a large increase in frequencies.


They pretty much just switched STL-PDX to STL-SAN. They cut PDX the end of Nov 2017, SAN started Dec 2017. PDX only came back for a couple months in the spring after that.

STL-SEA has had 2x frequency for awhile. It goes down to 1x over the winter at times. I think it was just normal seasonal timing for SEA to go from 1x to 2x when PDX was cut.
 
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FA9295
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Re: Sun Country adds 5 routes from PDX

Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:35 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
FA9295 wrote:

When PDX-STL ended, SEA got an extra flight to STL. However, at the same time, PDX-SEA gets a large increase in frequencies.


They pretty much just switched STL-PDX to STL-SAN. They cut PDX the end of Nov 2017, SAN started Dec 2017. PDX only came back for a couple months in the spring after that.

STL-SEA has had 2x frequency for awhile. It goes down to 1x over the winter at times. I think it was just normal seasonal timing for SEA to go from 1x to 2x when PDX was cut.

That's true. I think that this may have happened because there are more consistent E175 routes out of SAN, and more consistent 737 routes out of PDX. If there was demand for a 737 PDX-STL flight, then Alaska would likely have kept it going.
Next flights:
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PDX-LAX-MIA (American)
MCO-DFW-PDX (American)
 
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stl07
Posts: 569
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Re: Sun Country adds 5 routes from PDX

Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:20 pm

FA9295 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
FA9295 wrote:

When PDX-STL ended, SEA got an extra flight to STL. However, at the same time, PDX-SEA gets a large increase in frequencies.


They pretty much just switched STL-PDX to STL-SAN. They cut PDX the end of Nov 2017, SAN started Dec 2017. PDX only came back for a couple months in the spring after that.

STL-SEA has had 2x frequency for awhile. It goes down to 1x over the winter at times. I think it was just normal seasonal timing for SEA to go from 1x to 2x when PDX was cut.

That's true. I think that this may have happened because there are more consistent E175 routes out of SAN, and more consistent 737 routes out of PDX. If there was demand for a 737 PDX-STL flight, then Alaska would likely have kept it going.

The day after STL-PDX ended STL-SEA's 2nd flight went from rj to 737
 
Jshank83
Posts: 1646
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Re: Sun Country adds 5 routes from PDX

Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:21 pm

stl07 wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:

They pretty much just switched STL-PDX to STL-SAN. They cut PDX the end of Nov 2017, SAN started Dec 2017. PDX only came back for a couple months in the spring after that.

STL-SEA has had 2x frequency for awhile. It goes down to 1x over the winter at times. I think it was just normal seasonal timing for SEA to go from 1x to 2x when PDX was cut.

That's true. I think that this may have happened because there are more consistent E175 routes out of SAN, and more consistent 737 routes out of PDX. If there was demand for a 737 PDX-STL flight, then Alaska would likely have kept it going.

The day after STL-PDX ended STL-SEA's 2nd flight went from rj to 737


They have been running two 737s in summer. They back off in winter to one 737. This year it looks like they are going to one 737 in winter (like last year) I am guessing the same day they cut PDX is when they did a normal schedule shift and that is when it goes back to two 737s usually. When PDX started back up in March, SEA went from one 737 to one 737 and one RJ the same day. But anyway, this is a Sun Country thread so I'll leave it there.

It would be nice if Sun Country would run STL-PDX in summer. STL-PDX always has good loads spring to fall.
 
Dreamflight767
Posts: 439
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Re: Sun Country adds 5 routes from PDX

Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:25 am

[/quote]
I will answer your question. WTF are you smoking? Defend against an airline offering seasonal service for two, maybe three flights per day against AS in PDX? A small battle? Dude (or dudette), really? SY is picking low hanging fruit, like most low cost airlines. SY’s route planner is from AS, so they know where to pick and choose at PDX. No worry about the resources to deal with a fly in the ointment.[/quote]

You just re-affirmed my point. Not to sound insulting but the PDX market overall is low hanging fruit - I mean just look how PDX is treated by most carries. Off and on, seasonal, once daily or just a few times a week, etc. Also PDX is a lot more cost sensitive. Unlike the Bay Area, SEA, SOCAL, etc., (most) people in PDX aren't going to pay an extra few bucks to earn miles or maintain an elite status so there is very little allegiance.

If SY offers service to the same cities as AS (or QX) with a 737 and at a lower cost point, SY may become a big throne in AS side. But just like other carries, I'm not sure how long SY will hang around. So, I too am just contradicting myself.

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