In another sign of a formal relationship between Emirates and Etihad, Etihad offers it pilots to go and work for Emirates instead of loosing their job at the company. Etihad has sent its pilots en email to work with Emirates rather than having a 'leave without a pay'.

EY pilots joining Emirates will be receiving the full Emirates package and will be retaining their seniority seniority at Etihad. A recruitment team from Emirates will be present at Etihad HQ.

wow. lots of angles here.

The US Airways pilots have already filed a grievance.

Just when I thought I have seen it all...

South African Airways also has a similar program.

Unfortunately EK has gone down the path of degrading work conditions for their current pilots, and would rather go through the expense and risk of training new ones to backfill those who are leaving. The sad thing is, this is history repeating itself and has already happened in 2009-current in the USA regional airline industry. The result was a free-for-all of signing bonuses, increased pay, and desperation with resulting loss of business because they are unable to crew their flights.

If I were other airlines in the region I’d be keeping my ranks as fat as possible as more and more pilots will return to the USA to fly.

enilria wrote:

The US Airways pilots have already filed a grievance.

Why are USAiways pilots filing a grievance over this ?

It's a humorous remark. US Airways is defunct, but the pilots made the merger with AA .... errrr.... difficult. Perhaps a trait picked up before the name change from Alligator Airlines. Or perhaps sour feelings after HP ended up running the show. Or perhaps confusion from several more name changes.

32andBelow wrote:

If I were other airlines in the region I’d be keeping my ranks as fat as possible as more and more pilots will return to the USA to fly.

right or wrong, it's my distinct impression that very few expat pilots in the region are from the US, but mostly EU/India/Aus/NZ/Canada.

FlyHappy wrote:

32andBelow wrote:

If I were other airlines in the region I’d be keeping my ranks as fat as possible as more and more pilots will return to the USA to fly.

right or wrong, it's my distinct impression that very few expat pilots in the region are from the US, but mostly EU/India/Aus/NZ/Canada.

Quite a few from South Africa as well.

32andBelow wrote:

If I were other airlines in the region I’d be keeping my ranks as fat as possible as more and more pilots will return to the USA to fly.

why would foreign pilots want to work in the US again?

Etheereal wrote:

32andBelow wrote:

If I were other airlines in the region I’d be keeping my ranks as fat as possible as more and more pilots will return to the USA to fly.

why would foreign pilots want to work in the US again?

You can make the same as a 2nd year FO at NK/B6/G4 than a captain at EK/CX and work 1/3 as much. Legacy pay is probably 20-50% higher than that.

Etheereal wrote:

32andBelow wrote:

If I were other airlines in the region I’d be keeping my ranks as fat as possible as more and more pilots will return to the USA to fly.

why would foreign pilots want to work in the US again?

Pay and benefits in the U.S are much better. Work is much less, te industry has vastly improved over the past few years in the U.S.

FlyHappy wrote:

32andBelow wrote:

If I were other airlines in the region I’d be keeping my ranks as fat as possible as more and more pilots will return to the USA to fly.

right or wrong, it's my distinct impression that very few expat pilots in the region are from the US, but mostly EU/India/Aus/NZ/Canada.

There's a fair few ex BA pilots from what i've seen.

Does this mean that seniority is portable.

Long overdue, really good thing to see, finally... took long enough!

It is just an agreement between airlines, doesn't guarantee any secondments. With EK's reputation, EY will lose pilots if they force them to join EK. They would rather be on EY leave and find another job even without seniority.

chrisp390 wrote:

Etheereal wrote:

32andBelow wrote:

If I were other airlines in the region I’d be keeping my ranks as fat as possible as more and more pilots will return to the USA to fly.

why would foreign pilots want to work in the US again?

Pay and benefits in the U.S are much better. Work is much less, te industry has vastly improved over the past few years in the U.S.

Also the US is pretty much the only country in the world that makes their citizens to pay for their worldwide income. Apparently Eritrea also does this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_taxation

So basically American pilots are paid less (since they need to pay taxes to the US) than any other nationality (other than Eritreans) for the same job while working in tax-free GCC.

You’d have to an idiot to leave EK for a US3 airline.... anyway I’ve never come across a US pilot in years of flying EK ... cabin crew yes but never pilots though I’m sure they exist

SCQ83 wrote:

... tax-free GCC.

There is nothing tax-free. There are surcharges, service charges, VAT and several others.

Also, most perks are available only to buy services provided by Emirates friends and family. A pilot may send kids to public school, but you have to pay in Dubai.

On top, there are constantly evolving scams and pyramid schemes 21-year-olds have to survive, from foreign exchange to real estate. Very easy to lure young minds just started earning and at the top of the world.

Net, most expats bring back a lot of depression and very little to no savings.

bennett123 wrote:

Does this mean that seniority is portable.

Seniority does very little for you at either of the UAE carriers.

Galwayman wrote:

You’d have to an idiot to leave EK for a US3 airline.... anyway I’ve never come across a US pilot in years of flying EK ... cabin crew yes but never pilots though I’m sure they exist

Hmmm, an EK captain flies 100+ hrs while making about 12k a month, at any of the US3 you can make the same amount while flying half the time while living in a civilized country.
So all that just to fly some ugly ass A380 or a shiny new 777?
Thanks, I’ll pass.

enilria wrote:

The US Airways pilots have already filed a grievance.

Oh my god that made me laugh. Great way to start the morning. Thanks

SCQ83 wrote:

Also the US is pretty much the only country in the world that makes their citizens to pay for their worldwide income. Apparently Eritrea also does this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_taxation

So basically American pilots are paid less (since they need to pay taxes to the US) than any other nationality (other than Eritreans) for the same job while working in tax-free GCC.

The effect of US taxation on foreign income is vastly overstated. The first $102,100 of income is excluded from taxation, so US taxes paid is considerably reduced by a typical GCC pilot. IMO, much of the complaints stems from the paperwork burden and "sense of fairness".

I think the US citizen pilot is far less likely to fly expat due to the unique nature of the home aviation market, more than anything else.

Galwayman wrote:

You’d have to an idiot to leave EK for a US3 airline.... anyway I’ve never come across a US pilot in years of flying EK ... cabin crew yes but never pilots though I’m sure they exist

Please explain why someone would be an idiot to leave EK for the US. I can see how flying as an EK passenger would make you an authoritative voice on the subject.

trent772 wrote:

Galwayman wrote:

You’d have to an idiot to leave EK for a US3 airline.... anyway I’ve never come across a US pilot in years of flying EK ... cabin crew yes but never pilots though I’m sure they exist

Hmmm, an EK captain flies 100+ hrs while making about 12k a month, at any of the US3 you can make the same amount while flying half the time while living in a civilized country.
So all that just to fly some ugly ass A380 or a shiny new 777?
Thanks, I’ll pass.

I make $11-12k/month flying right seat in a US legacy narrowbody. Average block is below 70 hours with 15-18 days off each month.

ilovelamp wrote:

trent772 wrote:

Galwayman wrote:

You’d have to an idiot to leave EK for a US3 airline.... anyway I’ve never come across a US pilot in years of flying EK ... cabin crew yes but never pilots though I’m sure they exist

Hmmm, an EK captain flies 100+ hrs while making about 12k a month, at any of the US3 you can make the same amount while flying half the time while living in a civilized country.
So all that just to fly some ugly ass A380 or a shiny new 777?
Thanks, I’ll pass.

I make $11-12k/month flying right seat in a US legacy narrowbody. Average block is below 70 hours with 15-18 days off each month.

Yeah, but what did you make before working at a legacy? Did you get $12k/month at your first flying job? If that's the case, good for you!

Of course not, but first flying jobs aren’t being compared here.

Flying the A380 to exotic locations every week may sound exciting to 16yo's on here or office desk workers. But over the last 5 years EK has systematically reduced the layover times by 1 or 2 days on most layovers, while also reducing crew from 3 to 2, or from 4 to 3 on some flights. On top of that salaries have been frozen from the 2010 levels while Dubai cost of living increases, and crew ability to bring duty free back into DXB has basically been eliminated.

Compare that to making the same or more at a US airline as a 2nd year FO, with double the days off and in a civilized country. That should explain why you see very few Americans at EK. Many Europeans are also bailing and taking a pay cut to go back and fly for Euro ULCC's.

In the future I imagine the majority of the EK pilot force will be made up of South Asians, Pinoys, Eastern Europeans, Russians, and cadet pilots.

Do you guys thing they can do the same for the Cabin Crew ???

Galwayman wrote:

You’d have to an idiot to leave EK for a US3 airline.... anyway I’ve never come across a US pilot in years of flying EK ... cabin crew yes but never pilots though I’m sure they exist

You're kidding, right?

Not if you're a US citizen. US airlines pay far more and work far less and you don't have to commute to(or live in) the other side of the world. US pilots also have far more rights and aren't subject to the draconian bullshit EK loves to pull on their workforce. EK is a joke, no one with any sort of quality credentials wants to work there. That's why their pilot workforce is full of expats from countries where the airline industry and/or the economy in general are in the toilet, i.e. the guys that can't get a job in their home countries.

And as far as I'm aware, there are no US airlines hiring foreign nationals, at least not in any sort of significant numbers.

Mangs wrote:

Yeah, but what did you make before working at a legacy? Did you get $12k/month at your first flying job? If that's the case, good for you!

As desperate as EK is, they aren't hiring 1500 hour neophytes either. You're not making an apples to apples comparison here.

Galwayman wrote:

You’d have to an idiot to leave EK for a US3 airline.... anyway I’ve never come across a US pilot in years of flying EK ... cabin crew yes but never pilots though I’m sure they exist

Hahahahaha!!! SUUUURE you would. That’s why they are returning to the US in droves. The literal poster child female 777 Captain at EK (in their ad) just left to be a new hire at UAL.

Mangs wrote:

ilovelamp wrote:

trent772 wrote:

Hmmm, an EK captain flies 100+ hrs while making about 12k a month, at any of the US3 you can make the same amount while flying half the time while living in a civilized country.
So all that just to fly some ugly ass A380 or a shiny new 777?
Thanks, I’ll pass.

I make $11-12k/month flying right seat in a US legacy narrowbody. Average block is below 70 hours with 15-18 days off each month.

Yeah, but what did you make before working at a legacy? Did you get $12k/month at your first flying job? If that's the case, good for you!

Exactly. Working at EK is equivalent to a first airline (RJ) job in the US

With all the majors and cargo guys in the USA hiring like crazy these guys are boned

most wb CA's in the US are making 30k+ a month. EK pilots are luck to make 1/3rd of that.

So will the overworking of Emirates personnel stop ?

Sean-SAN- wrote:

Flying the A380 to exotic locations every week may sound exciting to 16yo's on here or office desk workers. But over the last 5 years EK has systematically reduced the layover times by 1 or 2 days on most layovers, while also reducing crew from 3 to 2, or from 4 to 3 on some flights.

Do crews even like long layovers? I'd think after the 8th MRU layover crews would be over it and want to get back to home base as soon as possible.

Back on topic, this seems like a smart move by Etihad as its empire/network shrinks, while Emirates needs all the pilots it can get to keep the flight banks at its DXB megahub going. But don't expect it to be a pathway to more co-operation or an eventual merger of the two carriers. There's no way that Abu Dhabi will give up its hub status, and no way that Emirates would want to have a second hub there.

MaverickM11 wrote:

Sean-SAN- wrote:

Flying the A380 to exotic locations every week may sound exciting to 16yo's on here or office desk workers. But over the last 5 years EK has systematically reduced the layover times by 1 or 2 days on most layovers, while also reducing crew from 3 to 2, or from 4 to 3 on some flights.

Do crews even like long layovers? I'd think after the 8th MRU layover crews would be over it and want to get back to home base as soon as possible.

Most pilots I know would like to consolidate all their flying into the least amount of days to get he most days off. Now if they can sit around and do nothing while getting paid they don’t mind much if they still get mad time off at home.

manny wrote:

So will the overworking of Emirates personnel stop ?

Not a chance, with EK parking airplanes it’ll only get worse.

777PHX wrote:

And as far as I'm aware, there are no US airlines hiring foreign nationals, at least not in any sort of significant numbers.

I know of one commercial airline based in the US that is actively hiring foreign nationals in what can be called a significant number (more than 20) mostly from Central and South America... and it is not the one you are thinking. Wonder if someone here can name it correctly?

rojo wrote:

777PHX wrote:

And as far as I'm aware, there are no US airlines hiring foreign nationals, at least not in any sort of significant numbers.

I know of one commercial airline based in the US that is actively hiring foreign nationals in what can be called a significant number (more than 20) mostly from Central and South America... and it is not the one you are thinking. Wonder if someone here can name it correctly?

I'm dieing to know who. It isn't one of the big established guys because the pilots' union would lose their minds.

TonyBurr wrote:

enilria wrote:

The US Airways pilots have already filed a grievance.

Why are USAiways pilots filing a grievance over this ?

This was probably just a joke. Reference to the AA/US merger.

32andBelow wrote:

If I were other airlines in the region I’d be keeping my ranks as fat as possible as more and more pilots will return to the USA to fly.

EK and ET are "stop-gap" Jobs for USA certified Pilots. Their time there is limited by contract. Should they Lose their Tax deferment? It will be TOO expensive to work there unless EK covers their losses (IF they can cover their losses)

Time to add a bit of common sense to this thread, those of you who have read what I’ve previously posted will hopefully know by now that I am not an EK apologist nor that I am not the least bit surprised that the latest effort to recruit pilots will merely delay the increasing severity of the flight-crew shortage.
To those of you on here comparing US major WB pay I say grow up, EK isn’t interested in recruiting US based WB skippers and their expectations of salaries and work conditions, they are trying to entice those who will perhaps stay 5-10 yrs, do their thing and leave. This is evidenced by the large numbers of Americans vacating the premises recently to head home to lesser paying (comparatively) jobs in the hope that eventual seniority and no more furloughs will mean that they can afford expensive healthcare and send their kids into schools protected by armed guards.
If you want to make honest and VALID financial comparisons then you need to get your head around what a 20yr EK skipper makes, which without bonuses and a pension is around $23000 USD per month net based on 86hrs of flying and 14 days off. (I’ve seen the roster and the payslip).
Don’t misunderstand what I’m saying here, on a pay per hour basis, both China and the USA kill EK, but not many want to work in China and the USA has its own distinct lack of access and appeal.
All this being said, money won’t fix the problems at EK, it’s a question of bringing a medieval mindset into the later part of the 20th or perhaps early 21st century. Until then those that are here have 2 buckets..one for money and one for sh1t, when one fills up first, it’s time to go.

emiratesdriver wrote:

those of you who have read what I’ve previously posted ...

Indeed I have, and this may be your most humourous post!

Tell me, in your estimation, have the crew departures skewed either towards captains, FO's or both equally?
Given large scale departures as you've been telling us about - how does the FO to Captain track work in that environment? Is every pilot who's been there for even a short time already a captain, or does it not work that way? I am genuinely curious.

btw, the "armed guard" thing - really, not so much. A case where reputation exceeds reality (not to downplay the grim events).

emiratesdriver wrote:

Until then those that are here have 2 buckets..one for money and one for sh1t, when one fills up first, it’s time to go.

Either getting close for you?

enilria wrote:

The US Airways pilots have already filed a grievance.

Since enilria's humour has been explained multiple times, I have a new conspiracy, ... I mean theory: the US Airways pilots group want EK to force AA to adopt the call sign "Cactus", given the xerophytic terrain surrounding DXB.

Back on track... if flying for an ME3, errr... ME1 (in the context of who's hiring) is like a first RJ job in the States... how does a 1500 hr pilot with a fresh ATP in a CR7 transition to the right seat on a 777? Does EK provide the training?

is it such a bad thing that EY have offered this? Isn't this better than them out of work? A lot of them wouldn't even need to move it's only an hr down the road to DXB. When DWC takes over from DXB... all it would take would be a merger and a high speed train between the two. Not entirely out of the question and lets not forget they are about to get significantly more completion out of Istanbul which can far better serve Europe by reaching deeper into smaller communities, they just currently lack the space to do so. Now I'm sure a high speed train in the desert will present challenges. It may need to even be elevated but if EY keep on posting these kinds of losses it may be cheaper. This is the start. They're showing they're showing they're willing to work together and EY clearly doesn't have the same kind of customer base EK has no matter how good of a product EY has produced. It's a pity because I'd far rather see them survive than QR and motormouth... but look at Gulf Air... change or be reduced to a shadow of yourself. What this move does is ensure people aren't put on the scrap heap when two airlines owned by the same government clearly can help each other.

Lufthansa wrote:

is it such a bad thing that EY have offered this? Isn't this better than them out of work? A lot of them wouldn't even need to move it's only an hr down the road to DXB. When DWC takes over from DXB... all it would take would be a merger and a high speed train between the two. Not entirely out of the question and lets not forget they are about to get significantly more completion out of Istanbul which can far better serve Europe by reaching deeper into smaller communities, they just currently lack the space to do so. Now I'm sure a high speed train in the desert will present challenges. It may need to even be elevated but if EY keep on posting these kinds of losses it may be cheaper. This is the start. They're showing they're showing they're willing to work together and EY clearly doesn't have the same kind of customer base EK has no matter how good of a product EY has produced. It's a pity because I'd far rather see them survive than QR and motormouth... but look at Gulf Air... change or be reduced to a shadow of yourself. What this move does is ensure people aren't put on the scrap heap when two airlines owned by the same government clearly can help each other.

Thank you for that post, but rather than welcome new opportunity for some good colleagues and airmen, we (this platform) get tied up discussing payrates on US narrowbodies! I have a lot of sympathy for current issues at both carriers (looking at you EKDriver) and have mentioned for months that such a solution is overdue for both sides...….! This is an enthusiast forum, great to see that EK get´s extra skippers and the EY Jocks have some perspective in life! Perhaps we can now stop discussing NK payrates!

Whilst the air companies struggle towards deeper cooperation, minimize outlays, streamline functions and speech stories of pilot shortages at the business. "This Kind of programs allow drivers to efficiently handle their own pilot's funds," that an Etihad spokesman stated in an emailed statement for the Countrywide on Sunday.