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flyPIT
Posts: 967
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:21 am

Re: AUS to become a Delta Focus City

Sun Jun 24, 2018 12:42 am

DeltaRules wrote:
ibthebigd wrote:
I am pretty sure IND would get flight.

3 airlines are on IND-AUS but none of them are daily

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


The same could be said for CMH-AUS, though I think it's a little more doubtful with G4 and F9 on the route in spite of being a strong DL city.


3 airlines fly IND-AUS. 1 airline flies IND-SAT. 2 airlines fly CMH/LCK-AUS. 1 airline flies CMH-SAT. Zero airlines fly PIT-AUS/SAT. I'd be shocked if DL flies AUS-CMH/IND before AUS-PIT.
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ADrum23
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Re: AUS to become a Delta Focus City

Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:00 am

malev2012 wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:

3. Yes, the existence of the BA daily flight should tell us that, considering they are running a 747 on the route, that there is a larger market for international traffic out of AUS than appears at first glance, and that a daily AMS flight would do fine. AA to LHR and DL to CDG co-exist just fine at RDU, and AUS is a bigger market.

4. The airline industry has changed much since the "post 9/11 grandiose plans" you refer to. DL is in a much stronger position financially than it was back then and the industry has consolidated much more, providing more stability. Also, its not like AUS is a hyper-competitive market like BOS, JFK, MIA; you have a moderately sized WN station, spokes for the US3 and some erratic, less than daily ULCC's in G4 and F9.


These points are telling. If anything DE and DI might be forced out due to the presence of DL on AMS. Just speaking from personal experience AMS wins hands down for transiting over LHR. Not to mention the impact of delays with LHR only having 2 runways. Also DL hard product in J beats BA going away.


DY, yes. I can't imagine they are making money on that route, it never made any sense to me why they started AUS at this time. DE on the other hand will be fine, they run into DL hubs in SEA and MSP and it's only a seasonal route anyway.

BA and DL would compliment each other well. LHR is good for some connections and AMS for others. Even if DL were to someday go full hub in AUS (complete with flights to both AMS and CDG), I think the BA flight would survive due to it being better for certain connections.
 
ADrum23
Posts: 1634
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Re: AUS to become a Delta Focus City

Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:01 am

flyPIT wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
ibthebigd wrote:
I am pretty sure IND would get flight.

3 airlines are on IND-AUS but none of them are daily

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


The same could be said for CMH-AUS, though I think it's a little more doubtful with G4 and F9 on the route in spite of being a strong DL city.


3 airlines fly IND-AUS. 1 airline flies IND-SAT. 2 airlines fly CMH/LCK-AUS. 1 airline flies CMH-SAT. Zero airlines fly PIT-AUS/SAT. I'd be shocked if DL flies AUS-CMH/IND before AUS-PIT.


Though I think all 3 will be flown on by DL eventually.
 
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Midwestindy
Posts: 2574
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Re: AUS to become a Delta Focus City

Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:21 am

flyPIT wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
ibthebigd wrote:
I am pretty sure IND would get flight.

3 airlines are on IND-AUS but none of them are daily

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


The same could be said for CMH-AUS, though I think it's a little more doubtful with G4 and F9 on the route in spite of being a strong DL city.


3 airlines fly IND-AUS. 1 airline flies IND-SAT. 2 airlines fly CMH/LCK-AUS. 1 airline flies CMH-SAT. Zero airlines fly PIT-AUS/SAT. I'd be shocked if DL flies AUS-CMH/IND before AUS-PIT.


1. No airline flies IND-SAT
2. WN flies 1x weekly, F9 flies 2x weekly, G4 flies 2x-3x weekly on IND-AUS, hardly competition for DL
3. PIT does have a PIT-AUS flight, but it is being suspended due to low performance
4. DL could connect passengers from AUS-IND-CDG/LGA/e.t.c, currently DL does not allow you to book connections through PIT.
5. IND is a more important market for DL than PIT
2018: AMS, ATL, BOS, BWI, CDG, CLT, CMN, DCA, DFW, DTW, EWR, FLL, FRA, HPN, JFK, IAD, IAH, IND, LAX, LGA, LHR, LOS, MAD, MIA, MSP, ORD, PHL, PVD, SAN, SEA, SJD, SLC, SFO, TPA, TXL, ZRH....Loading....
 
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flyPIT
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Re: AUS to become a Delta Focus City

Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:31 am

Midwestindy wrote:
1. No airline flies IND-SAT
2. WN flies 1x weekly, F9 flies 2x weekly, G4 flies 2x-3x weekly on IND-AUS, hardly competition for DL
3. PIT does have a PIT-AUS flight, but it is being suspended due to low performance
4. DL could connect passengers from AUS-IND-CDG/LGA/e.t.c, currently DL does not allow you to book connections through PIT.
5. IND is a more important market for DL than PIT


1. F9 starts in 7 weeks.
2. 3 low cost carriers bringing yields down is not competition for DL, or won't affect their yields?
3. Which confirms the point that PIT-AUS is unserved (when DL gets around to launching this focus city at AUS.)
4. There is nothing from stopping DL from offering a hypothetical AUS-PIT-CDG connection; DL has offered CDG connections via PIT in the past.
5. Says who?
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Midwestindy
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Re: AUS to become a Delta Focus City

Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:40 am

flyPIT wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
1. No airline flies IND-SAT
2. WN flies 1x weekly, F9 flies 2x weekly, G4 flies 2x-3x weekly on IND-AUS, hardly competition for DL
3. PIT does have a PIT-AUS flight, but it is being suspended due to low performance
4. DL could connect passengers from AUS-IND-CDG/LGA/e.t.c, currently DL does not allow you to book connections through PIT.
5. IND is a more important market for DL than PIT


1. F9 starts in 7 weeks.
2. 3 low cost carriers bringing yields down is not competition for DL, or won't affect their yields?
3. Which confirms the point that PIT-AUS is unserved (when DL gets around to launching this focus city at AUS.)
4. There is nothing from stopping DL from offering a hypothetical AUS-PIT-CDG connection; DL has offered CDG connections via PIT in the past.
5. Says who?


1. You are thinking of CMH-SAT
2. CVG-AUS was in the exact same circumstance, and DL announced it no problem. Case in point
3. If PIT-AUS can't support the service it had, why would another carrier like DL be eager to start it
4. DL would have to physically program connections through PIT into their system
5. Bob Cortelyou said they want to grow to be the #1 carrier out of IND, the Director of IND said DL was planning to make IND a connecting point, and DL said when IND-CDG was announced that IND is an important part of their route network. I have never heard DL recently make similar claims about PIT
2018: AMS, ATL, BOS, BWI, CDG, CLT, CMN, DCA, DFW, DTW, EWR, FLL, FRA, HPN, JFK, IAD, IAH, IND, LAX, LGA, LHR, LOS, MAD, MIA, MSP, ORD, PHL, PVD, SAN, SEA, SJD, SLC, SFO, TPA, TXL, ZRH....Loading....
 
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cvgComair
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Re: AUS to become a Delta Focus City

Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:45 am

flyPIT wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
5. IND is a more important market for DL than PIT

5. Says who?

IND:
ATL - 10
BOS - 3
CDG - 1
DTW - 7
JFK - 3
LGA - 5
MCO - 1
MSP - 5
RDU - 2
SEA - 1
SLC - 1
Total: 39 peak daily flights

PIT:
ATL - 9
BOS - 3
CDG - 1
DTW - 5
JFK - 3
LGA - 7
MSP - 4
SLC - 1
Total: 33 peak daily flights

IND is definitely bigger and serves more destinations, but they are not that far apart. If the focus city rumors at IND are true, I see IND-AUS happening first. However, I see DL eventually adding the route to both cities. CVG-AUS has 3 carriers that bring the route to 1-3x depending on the day. IND/PIT have very similar O&D demands to CVG, so there is no reason they cannot support more AUS service.
Next: CPH-CDG (Air France A318), CDG-BOS (Air France A330-200), BOS-CVG (Delta Air Lines CRJ-900)
A319/320/332/333, B712/722/732/733/738/739/752/753/763/764/772/773/788, CRJ-100/2/7/9, ERJ-145/75, MD-88/90, S340
 
tphuang
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Re: AUS to become a Delta Focus City

Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:07 am

Capn wrote:
Mr.tphuang,
I mean no disrespect you sound like you may know a lot about airlines and you constantly refer to DELTAs lower margins and all their disadvantages when competing against B6 and SW.
You do this in every thread concerning DL. and a city where they might want to expand. I would guess that you have access to data that supports your claims, I do not.
However, I do see how much money DL. makes every year and how well they manage their capex and their growth.
In my lifetime ( 72 years ) I have never seen an airline that is run as well as DL. is.
I can't speak for DL. and their management,but I do have full faith in what they are doing,and that their conservitive leadership will get it right.
I think that they know full well what the completion is capable of, and how to swim in the same waters.
I believe they are capable of competing in any market their Network planners think it will bendit them.
Must be doing something right...wouldnt you agree.

Hi there,

you are one of the nicest people on this thread, so I’m sad that we can’t agree more. You are right that I probably am more negative on DL than many others. Now, it has less to do with what I think of the airline itself, but more over the top opinions on this forum that I disagree with.

I’ve said many times DL is the only Legacy airline capable of establishing new hubs/focus cities because
1) it has great reputation and brand recognition amongst business passengers
2) It has great hubs in ATL/DTW/MSP/SLC that generate huge profit.
3) It has genuinely a better product than UA/AA.

I don't fly DL at all, but that's due to AA's network working better for me.

When I do pick an issue on a topic like this, it has nothing to do with DL itself, but more to point out the difficulties people are simply ignoring. When I say that they have high cost, that is entirely true. This you can see in the quarterly earnings report. It’s about 25% higher than WN/AS/B6. It’s even slightly higher than AA/UA. So, they have to establish revenues that reflect that. In their fortress hubs, they have been able to get astronomical prices for many of the routes. They are very good at monetizing first class seats and premium seats. These are all things they are really good at. But in places where they face a lot of competition, it’s harder to generate this kind of premium. In a case where they face a strong competitor like WN, it’s extremely hard to achieve revenue advantage against a local airline with massive advantages in their local Texas and nation wide network. Even if they can get same revenue as WN, the cost levels will make many of the flights unprofitable.

Now, I think there are places like IND/CMH that they can build into large focus cities overnight if they wanted to, due to their stronger roots there. But when I look at a place like AUS, I simply don’t see how they can build it up. Remember, all this AUS focus city talk is not coming from DL management, but rather a.net members. DL will know which cities strategically make sense.
 
kavok
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Re: AUS to become a Delta Focus City

Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:09 am

Don’t be surprised if DL adds a few small to midsize destinations in the Deep South from AUS. I am talking about MEM, MSY, LIT, BHM, etc.

The Deep South has historically been DL territory, but the problem for the cities mentioned above is that pax wanting to go westward from those destinations have to backtrack to ATL if they want to fly on DL. Adding AUS could serve as a good connection point from those cities for DL pax heading to LAX, SAN, PHX, SLC, etc.
 
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flyPIT
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Re: AUS to become a Delta Focus City

Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:13 am

Midwestindy wrote:
1. You are thinking of CMH-SAT
2. CVG-AUS was in the exact same circumstance, and DL announced it no problem. Case in point
3. If PIT-AUS can't support the service it had, why would another carrier like DL be eager to start it
4. DL would have to physically program connections through PIT into their system
5. Bob Cortelyou said they want to grow to be the #1 carrier out of IND, the Director of IND said DL was planning to make IND a connecting point, and DL said when IND-CDG was announced that IND is an important part of their route network. I have never heard DL recently make similar claims about PIT


1. You are correct
2. The obvious difference is CVG is a DL hub.
3. So an airline never starts a route that was dropped by another carrier? It would be a monopoly for DL unlike IND and CMH.
4. Just like they did for IND? Like I said they've done it before at PIT. Not sure why you think it is some obstacle.
5. Taking a snapshot at a given moment in time and to suggest that means IND is "a more important city" is a stretch IMHO. If DL had to hypothetically drop either PIT or IND I see no reason why IND would be an automatic shoe in. What about yields? What about that PIT-LGA is served 7x daily? PIT is a bigger market to tap. PIT-CDG operating subsidy free for 8 years. I don't see why DL would build a connecting operation at IND with CVG right down the road. DL might be having some momentum at IND but who's to say that can't happen at PIT or elsewhere in the years ahead. All it would take is for DL to add a couple routes. PIT-AUS/RDU/SEA/LAX are all easily within the realm of possibility. Airline networks change over time, we'll see what happens.

Regardless, to my point, IND and CMH already have service to AUS while at PIT DL would not have any competition. I have yet to see a reason IND and CMH would automatically come first considering all 3 are similar markets.

cvgComair wrote:

DL has more flights at AUG than ICN. Does that mean AUG is more important to the DL network than ICN? See point #5 above.
FLYi
 
tphuang
Posts: 1475
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: AUS to become a Delta Focus City

Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:24 am

ADrum23 wrote:
And what will they do about it? You realize Austin is a booming metropolis in its own right, and with San Antonio right down the road, combined they make up over 4 million people? They can't have a hub for their region too?

There are 900 flights a day out of DFW from AA. If you want to establish Austin as a focus city on mostly O&D. Fine, that's no problem. But if you want to make it a hub also reliant on a lot of connections, then it's going to have to fight for traffic against nearby ones like DFW. And it's going to get buried. It seems to me I'm saying obvious stuff. Why is that so hard to accept?

First, they will overtake UA and AA within the next few years to become the second largest carrier at AUS. Second, DFW can't even sustain year round flights to AMS, I'd say connecting in AMS would be better (more options and an international transit zone). Why would travelers, who are suffering from jet lag from international flights, want to drive 3+ hours between Austin and the Metroplex or take a connecting flight?

We don't know the first part. Even if they add the 5 flights I mentioned, they will still be the 4th largest. AMS is not a large market out of Texas. That's pretty obvious and AA has the largest international business market by far covered. So someone has the option to either connect through LHR or drive to DFW to fly direct if they are picking AA. Since AMS is entirely reliant on connection, you'd have to wait several hours in AMS. I don't see how travel time going through AMS is going to be better than travel time on a direct flight out of DFW. And if you really don't want to drive, you can also transit through London. BA captures all the premium demand out of AUS right now. What kind of flow is DL going to be left with?

Once again, that is not always true. It depends on where you are going. The C-Series will allow DL to give WN a serious run for their money due to lower costs per seat mile.

C-series is not going to change Delta's cost that much. WN has lower cost because it uses its gates harder (more turns per day), its aircraft harder (higher utlization rate + more trips per day), lower labour cost, less pension obligation, lack of expensive lounges, no interline agreement, no international alliance, smaller work force. I mean AA/DL are going to fly A321NEO soon, do you think that will make them lower cost than WN?

If fuel cost is 25% of overall cost and C-Series is 20% saving in fuel vs B717, that would only cut overall cost by 5%. WN is getting B738MAX, that will also lower their fuel cost by 15%.
If anyone should be worried about a recession, it is AA led by Doug "we'll never lose money again" Parker.

You see that's something I will actually agree with. I predict AA will cut back its hubs a lot when the next recession hits (I don't it's far away). UA will have to shrink again (much to Kirby's chagrin). DL will be fine, but its top priorities in those new hubs will always be LA and New York and the newer projects will get much less attention.

You keep talking about WN like they are some kind of chump. Remember, they are the ones that pushed many legacies out. Has there ever been a strong WN focus city where they were dominant (like at least 40% of traffic) and got pushed to a second place?
 
jplatts
Posts: 1506
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Re: AUS to become a Delta Focus City

Sun Jun 24, 2018 3:54 am

tphuang wrote:
You keep talking about WN like they are some kind of chump. Remember, they are the ones that pushed many legacies out. Has there ever been a strong WN focus city where they were dominant (like at least 40% of traffic) and got pushed to a second place?


There hasn't been a WN focus city (or former WN focus city) where WN was dominant and where WN got pushed to second place. However, WN did significantly downsize PHL from 70 daily departures at its peak to only 24 daily departures today, but WN was never the dominant carrier at PHL.

While SLC used to be the home base for KN prior to the WN-KN merger and while WN used to serve some additional destinations in the Western U.S. nonstop from SLC in the past, WN did drop some its nonstop routes out of SLC. WN used to serve ABQ, MCI, STL, SEA, and PDX nonstop from SLC in the past, but WN no longer serves ABQ, MCI, STL, SEA, and PDX nonstop from SLC. WN also added SLC-DAL nonstop service and brought back SLC-BUR, SLC-SMF, SLC-SAN, and SLC-SJC nonstop service following the WN downsizing at SLC that took place 5-10 years ago.

WN did significantly downsize at PHL since the last economic downturn in 2008. However, WN did add PHL-DAL nonstop service after the downsizing of its PHL station, and WN will also be bringing back PHL-HOU nonstop service this November.

WN was much bigger at ABQ 10 years ago than it is today, but WN did significantly downsize at ABQ with WN establishing a focus city at DEN, with WN significantly expanding at DEN, with the repeal of the Wright Amendment, and with WN expanding at DAL following the repeal of the Wright Amendment. WN also dropped nonstop service to AMA, ELP, LBB, MAF, SLC, STL, SEA, TPA, and TUS out of ABQ. However, WN still maintains over 50% market share at ABQ, even after significant downsizing at ABQ.

WN used to serve more destinations in the Western U.S. nonstop from SEA 15 years ago, but WN did drop some of its nonstop routes out of SEA. AS also was a much smaller airline 15 years ago, and DL didn't have a hub at SEA until 4 years ago.
 
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cvgComair
Posts: 1749
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:48 pm

Re: AUS to become a Delta Focus City

Sun Jun 24, 2018 3:59 am

flyPIT wrote:
cvgComair wrote:

DL has more flights at AUG than ICN. Does that mean AUG is more important to the DL network than ICN? See point #5 above.

No, but you are not comparing two comparable cities. ICN serves a vastly different function in DL's system than AUS.

IND/PIT are both mid-sized midwestern spokes for Delta, with very similar O&D demands/pax numbers. Just as you can twist PIT-LGA 7x/day or the CDG route, Midwestindy can throw out IND-ATL as 10x/day or nonstops to RDU/MIA/RSW/SEA/LAX.

DL serves more destinations nonstop and has more daily flights from IND, however, the difference is not all that big. Yes, yields could be worse at IND, but if that was the case, why would they still operate more flights at IND compared to PIT? Both sides of this argument are making assumptions...

I would put IND slightly ahead of PIT just because of the slightly larger operation, but I am looking just at the present data. Things can always change...
Next: CPH-CDG (Air France A318), CDG-BOS (Air France A330-200), BOS-CVG (Delta Air Lines CRJ-900)
A319/320/332/333, B712/722/732/733/738/739/752/753/763/764/772/773/788, CRJ-100/2/7/9, ERJ-145/75, MD-88/90, S340
 
JDawgboy512
Posts: 61
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:39 pm

Re: AUS to become a Delta Focus City

Sun Jun 24, 2018 4:14 am

compensateme wrote:
ldvaviation wrote:
... What the post 9/11 recession demonstrated is that O&D traffic from major cities diminishes less due to an economic shock than connecting traffic at hubs. In short, ALT was more vulnerable than Chicago. Of the Big 3, Delta has more hubs in second tier cities.


Yet capacity flow is smarter today than it was in the past. UA's 34 weekday 737 departures SFO/LAX may have briefly chased WN from the market, but UA certainly didn't make money from them. Nor did DL, in offering over 600 peak-day departures from CVG, including over a dozen domestic widebodies. And while MSP & DTW may be second tier cities to ORD, both carry a similar number of local passengers and far less connecting ones than UA & AA do at ORD. Thus, unless MSP and/or DTW are disproportionately impacted by the next recession, DL's in good shape there.

If history repeats itself, it is also worth remembering that post 9/11 grandiose plans like the ones AA undertook at JFK & MIA and DL at BOS undercut the efforts of both airlines to remain solvent.


I agree with you here. Right now, DL's investing large sums of money in renewing its fleet and building hubs in NYC, BOS, LAX & SEA -- one can't envision them doing so for AUS. Especially given the investor community, as it is, believes too much capacity is being added domestically. Unless DL is willing to fund an AUS hub from ATL -- and that would be absolutely silly, given ATL could handle most of AUS's traffic, at a far less cost, I don't see it happening. An AUS hub does very little for DL, but at a high cost.

IMO, more much ado about nothing... over a LinkedIn posting.



Please stay around over the next 6 to12 months and then see how your statement stands up then. I'll be very interested in your reaction.
 
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Midwestindy
Posts: 2574
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: AUS to become a Delta Focus City

Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:43 am

flyPIT wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
1. You are thinking of CMH-SAT
2. CVG-AUS was in the exact same circumstance, and DL announced it no problem. Case in point
3. If PIT-AUS can't support the service it had, why would another carrier like DL be eager to start it
4. DL would have to physically program connections through PIT into their system
5. Bob Cortelyou said they want to grow to be the #1 carrier out of IND, the Director of IND said DL was planning to make IND a connecting point, and DL said when IND-CDG was announced that IND is an important part of their route network. I have never heard DL recently make similar claims about PIT


1. You are correct
2. The obvious difference is CVG is a DL hub.
3. So an airline never starts a route that was dropped by another carrier? It would be a monopoly for DL unlike IND and CMH.
4. Just like they did for IND? Like I said they've done it before at PIT. Not sure why you think it is some obstacle.
5. Taking a snapshot at a given moment in time and to suggest that means IND is "a more important city" is a stretch IMHO. If DL had to hypothetically drop either PIT or IND I see no reason why IND would be an automatic shoe in. What about yields? What about that PIT-LGA is served 7x daily? PIT is a bigger market to tap. PIT-CDG operating subsidy free for 8 years. I don't see why DL would build a connecting operation at IND with CVG right down the road. DL might be having some momentum at IND but who's to say that can't happen at PIT or elsewhere in the years ahead. All it would take is for DL to add a couple routes. PIT-AUS/RDU/SEA/LAX are all easily within the realm of possibility. Airline networks change over time, we'll see what happens.

Regardless, to my point, IND and CMH already have service to AUS while at PIT DL would not have any competition. I have yet to see a reason IND and CMH would automatically come first considering all 3 are similar markets.

cvgComair wrote:

DL has more flights at AUG than ICN. Does that mean AUG is more important to the DL network than ICN? See point #5 above.


I'm going to be honest with you, I have no idea why this is even a discussion:

DL serves 15 destinations from IND, DL serves 9 destinations(soon 10) from PIT
DL has 40 departures from IND, DL has 33 departures from PIT
DL served 1.2mil mainline pax from IND, DL served 900k from PIT
PIT still doesn't have service to SEA, RDU, or LAX on DL, or other p2p flights other than the token sat-only PIT-CUN/MCO


DL SVP of Network planning was in IND last month and this is what he said: http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/st ... ice-begins
"Its(IND) is an important market for us, we are the largest "global carrier" from Indianapolis and we want to continue to be that and expand on that, and become more the airline of choice here in Indianapolis"

https://www.spreaker.com/user/echochamb ... -rodriguez
"It(speaking about IND-CDG) starts making IND a real real connecting point for Delta Airlines"

DL has not made any public statements saying anything similar about PIT, so I don't think there is much to discuss here.
Last edited by Midwestindy on Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:48 am, edited 2 times in total.
2018: AMS, ATL, BOS, BWI, CDG, CLT, CMN, DCA, DFW, DTW, EWR, FLL, FRA, HPN, JFK, IAD, IAH, IND, LAX, LGA, LHR, LOS, MAD, MIA, MSP, ORD, PHL, PVD, SAN, SEA, SJD, SLC, SFO, TPA, TXL, ZRH....Loading....
 
grbauc
Posts: 1010
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Re: AUS to become a Delta Focus City

Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:44 am

jplatts wrote:
tphuang wrote:
You keep talking about WN like they are some kind of chump. Remember, they are the ones that pushed many legacies out. Has there ever been a strong WN focus city where they were dominant (like at least 40% of traffic) and got pushed to a second place?


There hasn't been a WN focus city (or former WN focus city) where WN was dominant and where WN got pushed to second place. However, WN did significantly downsize PHL from 70 daily departures at its peak to only 24 daily departures today, but WN was never the dominant carrier at PHL.

While SLC used to be the home base for KN prior to the WN-KN merger and while WN used to serve some additional destinations in the Western U.S. nonstop from SLC in the past, WN did drop some its nonstop routes out of SLC. WN used to serve ABQ, MCI, STL, SEA, and PDX nonstop from SLC in the past, but WN no longer serves ABQ, MCI, STL, SEA, and PDX nonstop from SLC. WN also added SLC-DAL nonstop service and brought back SLC-BUR, SLC-SMF, SLC-SAN, and SLC-SJC nonstop service following the WN downsizing at SLC that took place 5-10 years ago.

WN did significantly downsize at PHL since the last economic downturn in 2008. However, WN did add PHL-DAL nonstop service after the downsizing of its PHL station, and WN will also be bringing back PHL-HOU nonstop service this November.

WN was much bigger at ABQ 10 years ago than it is today, but WN did significantly downsize at ABQ with WN establishing a focus city at DEN, with WN significantly expanding at DEN, with the repeal of the Wright Amendment, and with WN expanding at DAL following the repeal of the Wright Amendment. WN also dropped nonstop service to AMA, ELP, LBB, MAF, SLC, STL, SEA, TPA, and TUS out of ABQ. However, WN still maintains over 50% market share at ABQ, even after significant downsizing at ABQ.

WN used to serve more destinations in the Western U.S. nonstop from SEA 15 years ago, but WN did drop some of its nonstop routes out of SEA. AS also was a much smaller airline 15 years ago, and DL didn't have a hub at SEA until 4 years ago.



Nice Break Down. Yea SLC was Basically moved to DEN. WN at one time said they would never go back to DEN but then things changed and they did. DEN now plays the role that SLC played. ABQ has you noted also.

SEA and the West coast has been stretchered thin with all the WN expansion. AS really needs to fill the void while they can. ONT was also moved basically to LAX.
 
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flyPIT
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Re: AUS to become a Delta Focus City

Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:28 am

cvgComair wrote:
No, but you are not comparing two comparable cities. ICN serves a vastly different function in DL's system than AUS..
The only point I made here is there is more to the equation than simply number of departures.

cvgComair wrote:
IND/PIT are both mid-sized midwestern spokes for Delta, with very similar O&D demands/pax numbers. Just as you can twist PIT-LGA 7x/day or the CDG route, Midwestindy can throw out IND-ATL as 10x/day or nonstops to RDU/MIA/RSW/SEA/LAX.

DL serves more destinations nonstop and has more daily flights from IND, however, the difference is not all that big. Yes, yields could be worse at IND, but if that was the case, why would they still operate more flights at IND compared to PIT? Both sides of this argument are making assumptions...

I would put IND slightly ahead of PIT just because of the slightly larger operation, but I am looking just at the present data. Things can always change...
I agree... things are being twisted and assumptions made that somehow one of two very similar markets would clearly be a better (or first) market for a DL flight to AUS. I disagree with that based on the simple fact one of the markets already has three carriers.




Midwestindy wrote:
I'm going to be honest with you, I have no idea why this is even a discussion:

DL serves 15 destinations from IND, DL serves 9 destinations(soon 10) from PIT
DL has 40 departures from IND, DL has 33 departures from PIT
DL served 1.2mil mainline pax from IND, DL served 900k from PIT
PIT still doesn't have service to SEA, RDU, or LAX on DL, or other p2p flights other than the token sat-only PIT-CUN/MCO


DL SVP of Network planning was in IND last month and this is what he said: http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/st ... ice-begins
"Its(IND) is an important market for us, we are the largest "global carrier" from Indianapolis and we want to continue to be that and expand on that, and become more the airline of choice here in Indianapolis"

https://www.spreaker.com/user/echochamb ... -rodriguez
"It(speaking about IND-CDG) starts making IND a real real connecting point for Delta Airlines"

DL has not made any public statements saying anything similar about PIT, so I don't think there is much to discuss here.
IND has slightly more destinations and passengers for DL than PIT. That does not change the fact IND already has 3 carriers to AUS. Rambling on about the same talking points does not change that fact, nor does it imply IND would automatically get AUS flights before anyone else. All Im saying is I would be surprised if it did based on the 3 airlines already serving it.
FLYi
 
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Re: AUS to become a Delta Focus City

Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:18 am

Uuuugggghhhhh.. lets start with facts... all this discussion started about a Sales position that said AUS - Focus City. But that was a SALES position for the AUS/SAT sales area.. just like the RDU sales positions was for the NC/SC/BNA sales area. This does not mean SAT, NC, SC, or BNA will be a focus city. It means that from a a SALES point of view, DL is investing increasing their brand and revenue streams in these area and thus they set up focus areas/cities for a Sales Manager to oversee. These are for community outreach, branding, revenue streams, marketing Delta products and services, sponsorships, etc.

I think too many people read too much into a SALES job. It took DL over 2years to call RDU a focus city AFTER. Hi,ding it up. And they never preannounced anything. Same with CVG being called a focus city AFTER dehubbing and right sizing. So why would they come out and call AUS a focus city with service to nothing but the hubs/RDU focus city and with such small scale service to almost every hub except ATL?

I think we need to quit guessing where DL would start service because as they did in RDU, you’ll never know. But do you want to know WHY DL started the RDU buildup? Because AA was pulling out of RDU P2P routes that were established and printable to focus on only hub/spoke routes. So DL jump on those routes. Plus DL was the 4th carrier at RDU. 4th!!! And has always had an extremely strong brand name/loyalty/elites at RDU. Close to 50 years of history. Plus RDU DID NOT have a dominant carrier. Or a carrier with significant market share. AA and WN had the most but DL was already a close 3rd. And they were all basically at ~20-23%. That makes a difference. Plus RTRP (a research Triangle Regional partnership) was looking for a flight to CDG/AMS and we’re recruiting DL. And that was before they originally bailed on the flight in the early 2010s. So DL built up to get more elites and brand loyalty. And Delta has had strong history and elites in every focus city.

So, I say sit back and see what happens, but don’t make your bet off of a Sales and Marketing job posting...
Aiming High and going far..
 
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Re: AUS to become a Delta Focus City

Sun Jun 24, 2018 12:22 pm

ERJ170 wrote:
Uuuugggghhhhh.. lets start with facts... all this discussion started about a Sales position that said AUS - Focus City. But that was a SALES position for the AUS/SAT sales area.. just like the RDU sales positions was for the NC/SC/BNA sales area. This does not mean SAT, NC, SC, or BNA will be a focus city. It means that from a a SALES point of view, DL is investing increasing their brand and revenue streams in these area and thus they set up focus areas/cities for a Sales Manager to oversee. These are for community outreach, branding, revenue streams, marketing Delta products and services, sponsorships, etc.

I think too many people read too much into a SALES job. It took DL over 2years to call RDU a focus city AFTER. Hi,ding it up. And they never preannounced anything. Same with CVG being called a focus city AFTER dehubbing and right sizing. So why would they come out and call AUS a focus city with service to nothing but the hubs/RDU focus city and with such small scale service to almost every hub except ATL?

I think we need to quit guessing where DL would start service because as they did in RDU, you’ll never know. But do you want to know WHY DL started the RDU buildup? Because AA was pulling out of RDU P2P routes that were established and printable to focus on only hub/spoke routes. So DL jump on those routes. Plus DL was the 4th carrier at RDU. 4th!!! And has always had an extremely strong brand name/loyalty/elites at RDU. Close to 50 years of history. Plus RDU DID NOT have a dominant carrier. Or a carrier with significant market share. AA and WN had the most but DL was already a close 3rd. And they were all basically at ~20-23%. That makes a difference. Plus RTRP (a research Triangle Regional partnership) was looking for a flight to CDG/AMS and we’re recruiting DL. And that was before they originally bailed on the flight in the early 2010s. So DL built up to get more elites and brand loyalty. And Delta has had strong history and elites in every focus city.

So, I say sit back and see what happens, but don’t make your bet off of a Sales and Marketing job posting...


But the thing is, and this got overlooked, the next day, the local news in Austin ran a story stating it will become Delta’s fourth focus city.

http://www.kxan.com/news/local/austin/delta-chooses-austin-as-focus-city-bringing-more-direct-flights/1255011066

So it’s not just based off a sales job posting, this story didn’t even mention it. Say what you want about the news, but this story gives more credence to what we are talking about. I highly doubt they would have ran it if something wasn’t going on.
 
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Re: AUS to become a Delta Focus City

Sun Jun 24, 2018 12:35 pm

I don’t see a single line in that news article where a quote from a DL spokesperson or high level management official stated AUS was or will become a DL focus city. Without it coming directly from DL, it is just words from the news caster... who can be notoriously wrong...
Aiming High and going far..
 
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Re: AUS to become a Delta Focus City

Sun Jun 24, 2018 12:38 pm

ERJ170 wrote:
I don’t see a single line in that news article where a quote from a DL spokesperson or high level management official stated AUS was or will become a DL focus city. Without it coming directly from DL, it is just words from the news caster... who can be notoriously wrong...


Which they were, "The company's three other "Focus Cities" are Boston, Nashville and Raleigh-Durham." They couldn't even fact check something that obvious
2018: AMS, ATL, BOS, BWI, CDG, CLT, CMN, DCA, DFW, DTW, EWR, FLL, FRA, HPN, JFK, IAD, IAH, IND, LAX, LGA, LHR, LOS, MAD, MIA, MSP, ORD, PHL, PVD, SAN, SEA, SJD, SLC, SFO, TPA, TXL, ZRH....Loading....
 
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Re: AUS to become a Delta Focus City

Sun Jun 24, 2018 12:42 pm

flyPIT wrote:
All Im saying is I would be surprised if it did based on the 3 airlines already serving it.


Let's agree to disagree, I'm not going to convince you and you will likely not convince me. Either way, a route like AUS-IND or even AUS-PIT is a much better idea compared to some posters who think DL should try AUS-ORD/DFW/DEN/e.t.c
2018: AMS, ATL, BOS, BWI, CDG, CLT, CMN, DCA, DFW, DTW, EWR, FLL, FRA, HPN, JFK, IAD, IAH, IND, LAX, LGA, LHR, LOS, MAD, MIA, MSP, ORD, PHL, PVD, SAN, SEA, SJD, SLC, SFO, TPA, TXL, ZRH....Loading....
 
ADrum23
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Re: AUS to become a Delta Focus City

Sun Jun 24, 2018 12:51 pm

ERJ170 wrote:
I don’t see a single line in that news article where a quote from a DL spokesperson or high level management official stated AUS was or will become a DL focus city. Without it coming directly from DL, it is just words from the news caster... who can be notoriously wrong...


So it’s #fakenews then? Got it.

In all seriousness, while I agree they may have jumped the gun, I highly doubt they would have published it if something wasn’t going on.

Why does it matter if we are talking about it? If you don’t like the conversation, don’t engage in it. I find this conversation pretty fun and (generally) informative. It has long been known that DL has a glaring hole in Texas, and putting a presence in AUS would give then hands down an unrivaled network because every single area of the country would be covered (something UA and AA couldn’t say)
 
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Re: AUS to become a Delta Focus City

Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:03 pm

Ohhh.. I enjoy the conversation... that’s not the issue.. but i just think everyone should bring it back a lil bit... I’m seeing some Asia service, multiple European service.. hub status.. service to every major business and leisure destination.. a lil bit of reason is just what I want to see... intro-Texas? Nooo... you don’t see that at the other focus cities... look at places where AUS had previous flights and don’t have them that are business markets + Florida.. and then you will see the possibilities...
Aiming High and going far..
 
ADrum23
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Re: AUS to become a Delta Focus City

Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:37 pm

ERJ170 wrote:
Ohhh.. I enjoy the conversation... that’s not the issue.. but i just think everyone should bring it back a lil bit... I’m seeing some Asia service, multiple European service.. hub status.. service to every major business and leisure destination.. a lil bit of reason is just what I want to see... intro-Texas? Nooo... you don’t see that at the other focus cities... look at places where AUS had previous flights and don’t have them that are business markets + Florida.. and then you will see the possibilities...


It's all part of the conversation. While it is speculative and we don't know anything for sure, it would not surprise me at all if this potential AUS focus city eventually evolved into a full hub. If it did, we would see multiple TATL flights, intra-Texas service, service to every major business and leisure destination, etc. If it just remains a focus city, then no, we won't see any of that. We'll see AMS and about 70-80 flights a day to hubs and key business markets. Asian service will come (eventually) regardless of DL's plans, but a DL focus city/hub will only enhance the prospects.

I see a lot of similarities here to the situation in SEA when DL decided to build up there. Fast growing tech market that is underserved by major carriers, large millennial population (which DL claims it is the number 1 carrier of choice for young business professionals), large incumbent carriers (AS in SEA, WN in AUS) that nonetheless do not have an overwhelming presence, etc. Of course, there are key differences too, not the least of which is SEA doesn't have two megahubs nearby like AUS does (AA in DFW, UA in IAH).

I am just really interested to see what happens over the next few years.
 
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Re: AUS to become a Delta Focus City

Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:28 pm

I am wondering if DL is trying their own version of Northwest Airlines old Heartland strategy. They may be going after markets like AUS, IND, PIT, BNA (already have RDU and CVG) and turning them into focus cities. Siphon off the business and international travelers before another carrier can feed them through their hubs. Take away the best O&D and leave everyone else with less profitable feed. Sprinkle in some connecting traffic to bolster the network. It would be a pretty solid plan.

As for service between AUS and IND. It will probably happen. It strengthens their network and provides more business class seats between the cities. Are there currently any business class seats available between the cities?
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
phluser
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Re: AUS to become a Delta Focus City

Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:47 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
2. WN flies 1x weekly, F9 flies 2x weekly, G4 flies 2x-3x weekly on IND-AUS, hardly competition for DL


The beauty is all those carriers have helped stimulate traffic in the market. DL could enter and have some market it can pick up traffic from carriers who helped stimulate some traffic. Granted, DL will be looking for higher yielding and business traffic, but there is overlap from the WN traffic.

e.g. Even though WN is 1x weekly, it is keeping WGA fares on 1-stops low on IND AUS, which helps stimulate traffic. (one way fares under $130 about one month out). The distance is also under 1000 miles and maybe doable as a day trip or one night stay trip.

If I was a betting man, I'd say it launches AUS-IND first over AUS-PIT, even though there is more competition currently to IND. Some carriers also get quickly knocked off from the battle. G4 and F9 have no commitment towards those type of routes.
 
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Re: AUS to become a Delta Focus City

Sun Jun 24, 2018 3:26 pm

Plus DL also serves a different type of customer.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
Capn
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Re: AUS to become a Delta Focus City

Sun Jun 24, 2018 3:42 pm

Mr. tphuang

Thank you very much for your kind words. It is a pleasure having a pleasant discussion with someone on a subject we both seem to love.
I understand the points you make about DL.s higher cost structure, I am not convinced they are quite as bad as you infer ( no offense ).
Where I put more leverage is in operational performance, reputation employee morale, managements desire to make it a great place to work, etc.
These things get noticed by people who travel frequently.
In spite of the many people on here who love flying SW ( and it is a great airline ) I would say that by a vast majority of people I know who do not have to pay for their own tickets prefer to fly on a full service carrier. When you compare DL AA UA I do believe DL wins hands down where people have a choice in competing non stop flts.
When DL enters into a market where an established carrier has a solid lead in market share, they will have done their homework and will be prepared to fight and build up their share of the market.
All the talk about recessions reminds me of when I was a new hire and had to commute to my base from where I wanted to live and everyone was afraid to buy a place to live because of all the uncertainties. The only thing that would happen was that the cost of housing rose while you waited. Point being that the airline industry is and always will be uncertain...
While I think DL takes these things into account, they still must progress the airline.
Back to AUS, too many of us are already planning a SLC sized hub. I see DL taking it bit slower and seeing where 6 or 7 gates take them, if the results are what they are looking for, its on to phase 2 which I am sure they have already prepared.
So enough of my long winded rantings.

We need to get you moved to a DELTA hub or FOCUS CITY. So your AA nightmare ends,just kidding
Enjoy
UH-1 DEHAVILAND HERON MARTIN 404 DC-9 CHALLENGER 601 FALCON 50 & 900EX
 
ADrum23
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Re: AUS to become a Delta Focus City

Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:00 pm

Capn wrote:
Mr. tphuang

Thank you very much for your kind words. It is a pleasure having a pleasant discussion with someone on a subject we both seem to love.
I understand the points you make about DL.s higher cost structure, I am not convinced they are quite as bad as you infer ( no offense ).
Where I put more leverage is in operational performance, reputation employee morale, managements desire to make it a great place to work, etc.
These things get noticed by people who travel frequently.
In spite of the many people on here who love flying SW ( and it is a great airline ) I would say that by a vast majority of people I know who do not have to pay for their own tickets prefer to fly on a full service carrier. When you compare DL AA UA I do believe DL wins hands down where people have a choice in competing non stop flts.
When DL enters into a market where an established carrier has a solid lead in market share, they will have done their homework and will be prepared to fight and build up their share of the market.
All the talk about recessions reminds me of when I was a new hire and had to commute to my base from where I wanted to live and everyone was afraid to buy a place to live because of all the uncertainties. The only thing that would happen was that the cost of housing rose while you waited. Point being that the airline industry is and always will be uncertain...
While I think DL takes these things into account, they still must progress the airline.
Back to AUS, too many of us are already planning a SLC sized hub. I see DL taking it bit slower and seeing where 6 or 7 gates take them, if the results are what they are looking for, its on to phase 2 which I am sure they have already prepared.
So enough of my long winded rantings.

We need to get you moved to a DELTA hub or FOCUS CITY. So your AA nightmare ends, just kidding.
Enjoy


These are good points. I think WN is a great airline, great employees, great customer service, great planes, etc. However, there are a few things about them that make them less appealing than legacy carriers in my opinion. The biggest is the lack of codeshare/interline agreements with foreign airlines for connections to overseas and their refusal to fly anything but 737's, which puts smaller markets at a disadvantage. There are a few other things too, but those are the big ones for me.

So at the end of the day, I feel a legacy hub is more valuable to a airport/market than a large WN focus city, simply because legacy hubs have more flights, more connections, more frequencies and international service (typically). That brings more economic impact to a city than WN simply filling up a bunch of 737's and flying them out of your airport, with maybe 20% connections.

Also, to your last point, I agree. A SLC sized hub is not coming to AUS in the near future, I was simply saying it should not be ruled out in the future. DL will build up AUS slowly initially, to test the market and a hub would only come if the market reacts positively. My guess is later this year, when the new gates are almost complete, we will see AMS and a few p2p flights announced.
 
Capn
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Re: AUS to become a Delta Focus City

Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:27 pm

I agree with your points. I do not want to leave the impression that I don't believe it will become a hub.
I think. AUS will be a future hub for DL and give them a lot of great opportunities in the hopefully near term.
Hope to see it.
UH-1 DEHAVILAND HERON MARTIN 404 DC-9 CHALLENGER 601 FALCON 50 & 900EX
 
reggiet
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Re: AUS to become a Delta Focus City

Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:59 pm

Capn wrote:
Mr. tphuang

Thank you very much for your kind words. It is a pleasure having a pleasant discussion with someone on a subject we both seem to love.
I understand the points you make about DL.s higher cost structure, I am not convinced they are quite as bad as you infer ( no offense ).
Where I put more leverage is in operational performance, reputation employee morale, managements desire to make it a great place to work, etc.
These things get noticed by people who travel frequently.
In spite of the many people on here who love flying SW ( and it is a great airline ) I would say that by a vast majority of people I know who do not have to pay for their own tickets prefer to fly on a full service carrier. When you compare DL AA UA I do believe DL wins hands down where people have a choice in competing non stop flts.
When DL enters into a market where an established carrier has a solid lead in market share, they will have done their homework and will be prepared to fight and build up their share of the market.
All the talk about recessions reminds me of when I was a new hire and had to commute to my base from where I wanted to live and everyone was afraid to buy a place to live because of all the uncertainties. The only thing that would happen was that the cost of housing rose while you waited. Point being that the airline industry is and always will be uncertain...
While I think DL takes these things into account, they still must progress the airline.
Back to AUS, too many of us are already planning a SLC sized hub. I see DL taking it bit slower and seeing where 6 or 7 gates take them, if the results are what they are looking for, its on to phase 2 which I am sure they have already prepared.
So enough of my long winded rantings.

We need to get you moved to a DELTA hub or FOCUS CITY. So your AA nightmare ends,just kidding
Enjoy



Tip jar Capn :bigthumbsup:
Reggie in Austin
 
WPvsMW
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Re: AUS to become a Delta Focus City

Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:09 pm

DL's balance between domestic and international varies, and DL quickly adapts. With the DL/KE JV in place, I see DL entering a period of domestic priority and waiting out the US/CN bloodbath. I think DL's domestic priority is the Southwest ( and I don't mean WN). I don't expect an invitation to WN to join SkyTeam, but I do think AUS is perfect for DL/WN coopetition.
 
ldvaviation
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Re: AUS to become a Delta Focus City

Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:03 pm

WPvsMW wrote:
A poster above scoffed that DL is building two, 30 gate concourses. Fantasy.
According to the grapevine, DL is getting 3 of the new gates, and use of 2 new CUTE gates, to be constructed at AUS by the airport operator.
In the context of DL in Texas, there's a reasonable argument DL will grow AUS as large and as fast as yields permit. Glen and the guys are some of the best network planners in the biz. Personally, I think Glen is the modern Juan Trippe (and there are counterparts to Hap Arnold and Carl Spaatz around him).


Austin is building gates to meet current demand. It is not building gates on spec or for a specific airline.

Airports in the US don't do that anymore. It is much too risky. Airports learned their lesson from the Delta and United bankruptcies.

If Delta had to cut back in the near future, the airport would have the financial burden for three vacant gates, not the burden for 60 (two 30-gate concourses).
 
WPvsMW
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Re: AUS to become a Delta Focus City

Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:20 pm

Agreed. No one is building two, 30 gate courses at AUS. That idea is fantasy.
However, the airport operator is planning an expansion in which "According to the grapevine, DL is getting 3 of the new gates, and use of 2 new CUTE gates, ..."

And, my apologies to the DTW thread for suggesting that AUS poach the A359 base at DTW. Though obviously a running theme on a.nut, I hurt some feelings. Apologies.

I love to connect at DTW, and have done so for decades, but be careful not to make any jokes about looking for the light rail station at DTW.
 
ADrum23
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Re: AUS to become a Delta Focus City

Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:05 pm

ldvaviation wrote:
WPvsMW wrote:
A poster above scoffed that DL is building two, 30 gate concourses. Fantasy.
According to the grapevine, DL is getting 3 of the new gates, and use of 2 new CUTE gates, to be constructed at AUS by the airport operator.
In the context of DL in Texas, there's a reasonable argument DL will grow AUS as large and as fast as yields permit. Glen and the guys are some of the best network planners in the biz. Personally, I think Glen is the modern Juan Trippe (and there are counterparts to Hap Arnold and Carl Spaatz around him).


Austin is building gates to meet current demand. It is not building gates on spec or for a specific airline.

Airports in the US don't do that anymore. It is much too risky. Airports learned their lesson from the Delta and United bankruptcies.

If Delta had to cut back in the near future, the airport would have the financial burden for three vacant gates, not the burden for 60 (two 30-gate concourses).


I was just saying hypothetically if DL hubbed AUS, they could need two 30 gate concourses, bringing the total airport total to roughly 90 gates (using SLC as a model). I doubt they will need a third concourse anytime for the foreseeable future. Building two new concourses would require the relocation of the air traffic control tower and other infrastructure and cause massive disruption, so they rightfully don't want to do that for as long as possible. However, the new concourse they are proposing in the master plan should include at least 30 gates, bring the total airport gates up to 60ish (likely a few would have to be removed on the existing concourse to make way for the APM).
 
Longhornmaniac
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Re: AUS to become a Delta Focus City

Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:20 am

WPvsMW wrote:
Agreed. No one is building two, 30 gate courses at AUS. That idea is fantasy.
However, the airport operator is planning an expansion in which "According to the grapevine, DL is getting 3 of the new gates, and use of 2 new CUTE gates, ..."

And, my apologies to the DTW thread for suggesting that AUS poach the A359 base at DTW. Though obviously a running theme on a.nut, I hurt some feelings. Apologies.

I love to connect at DTW, and have done so for decades, but be careful not to make any jokes about looking for the light rail station at DTW.


While I think your point stands to a certain extent, let's be more accurate-they're not planning an expansion, they're more than halfway through it. Ask any of the poor sods having to walk half a mile on the jet bridge to the BA 747. DL is building a large new Sky Club there in the expansion of the concourse. You don't do that if you're not planning to try to increase your footprint. It's also indicative of the type of traffic DL is seeking to pursue at AUS.

The discussion of the future expansion plans also isn't pure fantasy. AUS is in the middle of updating its master plan, and by the time the newest expansion finishes, another will already be needed. They reached the passenger targets for this current expansion years ago. The graphics that have been recently published for review include some large expansions that are in the same vein as those discussed in this thread. And they're far from over-ambitious.

The bottom line is that AUS needs more space as soon as possible. The current concourse (even with its expansion slated for completion next year) simply can't handle the current passenger load.
Cheers,
Cameron
 
malev2012
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Re: AUS to become a Delta Focus City

Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:27 am

Longhornmaniac wrote:
WPvsMW wrote:
Agreed. No one is building two, 30 gate courses at AUS. That idea is fantasy.
However, the airport operator is planning an expansion in which "According to the grapevine, DL is getting 3 of the new gates, and use of 2 new CUTE gates, ..."

And, my apologies to the DTW thread for suggesting that AUS poach the A359 base at DTW. Though obviously a running theme on a.nut, I hurt some feelings. Apologies.

I love to connect at DTW, and have done so for decades, but be careful not to make any jokes about looking for the light rail station at DTW.


While I think your point stands to a certain extent, let's be more accurate-they're not planning an expansion, they're more than halfway through it. Ask any of the poor sods having to walk half a mile on the jet bridge to the BA 747. DL is building a large new Sky Club there in the expansion of the concourse. You don't do that if you're not planning to try to increase your footprint. It's also indicative of the type of traffic DL is seeking to pursue at AUS.

The discussion of the future expansion plans also isn't pure fantasy. AUS is in the middle of updating its master plan, and by the time the newest expansion finishes, another will already be needed. They reached the passenger targets for this current expansion years ago. The graphics that have been recently published for review include some large expansions that are in the same vein as those discussed in this thread. And they're far from over-ambitious.

The bottom line is that AUS needs more space as soon as possible. The current concourse (even with its expansion slated for completion next year) simply can't handle the current passenger load.

Yes it's a zoo even on Saturday afternoons. The 9 gate expansion coming online next year will already be at capacity which I think is 15 million.
 
JDawgboy512
Posts: 61
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:39 pm

Re: AUS to become a Delta Focus City

Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:01 am

ERJ170 wrote:
I don’t see a single line in that news article where a quote from a DL spokesperson or high level management official stated AUS was or will become a DL focus city. Without it coming directly from DL, it is just words from the news caster... who can be notoriously wrong...



There are also people who work for the port who are coming out collaborating with a Delta expansion here in Austin, so again this is not just do to the job posting by any means.
 
JDawgboy512
Posts: 61
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:39 pm

Re: AUS to become a Delta Focus City

Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:07 am

ADrum23 wrote:
malev2012 wrote:
Longhornmaniac wrote:

While I think your point stands to a certain extent, let's be more accurate-they're not planning an expansion, they're more than halfway through it. Ask any of the poor sods having to walk half a mile on the jet bridge to the BA 747. DL is building a large new Sky Club there in the expansion of the concourse. You don't do that if you're not planning to try to increase your footprint. It's also indicative of the type of traffic DL is seeking to pursue at AUS.

The discussion of the future expansion plans also isn't pure fantasy. AUS is in the middle of updating its master plan, and by the time the newest expansion finishes, another will already be needed. They reached the passenger targets for this current expansion years ago. The graphics that have been recently published for review include some large expansions that are in the same vein as those discussed in this thread. And they're far from over-ambitious.

The bottom line is that AUS needs more space as soon as possible. The current concourse (even with its expansion slated for completion next year) simply can't handle the current passenger load.

Yes it's a zoo even on Saturday afternoons. The 9 gate expansion coming online next year will already be at capacity which I think is 15 million.


But any additional concourses built further south from the one they are proposing in the preferred alternative would require relocation of the air traffic control tower and other infrastructure in the middle. I think they want to delay that for as long as possible.

The question is, how many gates will they put on the concourse in the preferred alternative, and will that be enough?



I have heard that a new control tower is planned, a taller, larger tower than our current one so my thinking is they will built that then demolish the old one.
 
ADrum23
Posts: 1634
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:54 pm

Re: AUS to become a Delta Focus City

Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:07 am

malev2012 wrote:
Longhornmaniac wrote:
WPvsMW wrote:
Agreed. No one is building two, 30 gate courses at AUS. That idea is fantasy.
However, the airport operator is planning an expansion in which "According to the grapevine, DL is getting 3 of the new gates, and use of 2 new CUTE gates, ..."

And, my apologies to the DTW thread for suggesting that AUS poach the A359 base at DTW. Though obviously a running theme on a.nut, I hurt some feelings. Apologies.

I love to connect at DTW, and have done so for decades, but be careful not to make any jokes about looking for the light rail station at DTW.


While I think your point stands to a certain extent, let's be more accurate-they're not planning an expansion, they're more than halfway through it. Ask any of the poor sods having to walk half a mile on the jet bridge to the BA 747. DL is building a large new Sky Club there in the expansion of the concourse. You don't do that if you're not planning to try to increase your footprint. It's also indicative of the type of traffic DL is seeking to pursue at AUS.

The discussion of the future expansion plans also isn't pure fantasy. AUS is in the middle of updating its master plan, and by the time the newest expansion finishes, another will already be needed. They reached the passenger targets for this current expansion years ago. The graphics that have been recently published for review include some large expansions that are in the same vein as those discussed in this thread. And they're far from over-ambitious.

The bottom line is that AUS needs more space as soon as possible. The current concourse (even with its expansion slated for completion next year) simply can't handle the current passenger load.

Yes it's a zoo even on Saturday afternoons. The 9 gate expansion coming online next year will already be at capacity which I think is 15 million.


But any additional concourses built further south from the one they are proposing in the preferred alternative would require relocation of the air traffic control tower and other infrastructure in the middle. I think they want to delay that for as long as possible.

The question is, how many gates will they put on the concourse in the preferred alternative, and will that be enough?
 
Capn
Posts: 209
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:14 pm

Re: AUS to become a Delta Focus City

Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:39 pm

Any new news on AUS
UH-1 DEHAVILAND HERON MARTIN 404 DC-9 CHALLENGER 601 FALCON 50 & 900EX
 
jethawk
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:42 am

Re: AUS to become a Delta Focus City

Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:11 pm

Capn wrote:
Any new news on AUS


VS LHR-AUS :crossfingers: :crossfingers:
 
User avatar
TransWorldOne
Posts: 227
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 12:13 am

Re: AUS to become a Delta Focus City

Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:35 pm

jethawk wrote:
Capn wrote:
Any new news on AUS


VS LHR-AUS :crossfingers: :crossfingers:



Don't you think London is already well covered from AUS with both BA and Norwegian connecting the two cities? I'd put my money on AUS-AMS before AUS-LHR on VS.
 
Sightseer
Posts: 865
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:04 am

Re: AUS to become a Delta Focus City

Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:15 pm

TransWorldOne wrote:
jethawk wrote:
Capn wrote:
Any new news on AUS


VS LHR-AUS :crossfingers: :crossfingers:



Don't you think London is already well covered from AUS with both BA and Norwegian connecting the two cities? I'd put my money on AUS-AMS before AUS-LHR on VS.

I agree. DL, within the context of trans-Atlantic JVs, has yet to inaugurate service from a city to LHR before either CDG or AMS, so I doubt AUS will be any different.
 
Longhornmaniac
Posts: 3030
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:33 pm

Re: AUS to become a Delta Focus City

Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:16 pm

Capn wrote:
Any new news on AUS


I wouldn't expect anything formal for a couple of months. Keep in mind they can't expand until they get more gates, which means they're limited until the new concourse opens.

I'm guessing next summer is when you'll see it start ramping up. I'd expect an announcement closer to the end of the year, possibly to coincide with an announcement of the opening date for the new concourse. If things are on track the way they seem to be, I think I'd seen in the Austin thread that they're looking at possibly a March/April opening, which would be terrific. That would give Delta an opportunity to announce and start flights in time for the busy summer season.

All pure speculation on my part, though.
Cheers,
Cameron
 
rampboy77
Posts: 58
Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2003 10:16 am

Re: AUS to become a Delta Focus City

Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:13 pm

If you are looking for a BIG BANG build up at AUS by DL that is not their style. They will add flights as they make sense. The C-series could move the needle but slow and steady will be the name of the game.
 
ADrum23
Posts: 1634
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:54 pm

Re: AUS to become a Delta Focus City

Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:56 pm

Longhornmaniac wrote:
Capn wrote:
Any new news on AUS


I wouldn't expect anything formal for a couple of months. Keep in mind they can't expand until they get more gates, which means they're limited until the new concourse opens.

I'm guessing next summer is when you'll see it start ramping up. I'd expect an announcement closer to the end of the year, possibly to coincide with an announcement of the opening date for the new concourse. If things are on track the way they seem to be, I think I'd seen in the Austin thread that they're looking at possibly a March/April opening, which would be terrific. That would give Delta an opportunity to announce and start flights in time for the busy summer season.

All pure speculation on my part, though.


I do believe we will see AUS-AMS announced by the end of September (considering most new TATL routes are announced within the August-September timeframe), and then we'll see one or two new domestic destinations announced by the end of the year, but that will be it for this year. Once the new gates actually open in 2019, then we'll see more added.
 
ADrum23
Posts: 1634
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:54 pm

Re: AUS to become a Delta Focus City

Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:57 pm

Sightseer wrote:
TransWorldOne wrote:
jethawk wrote:

VS LHR-AUS :crossfingers: :crossfingers:



Don't you think London is already well covered from AUS with both BA and Norwegian connecting the two cities? I'd put my money on AUS-AMS before AUS-LHR on VS.

I agree. DL, within the context of trans-Atlantic JVs, has yet to inaugurate service from a city to LHR before either CDG or AMS, so I doubt AUS will be any different.


VS will only come if DL goes full scale hub at AUS. If it just remains a focus city, then they'll only do either AMS or CDG. Though AUS would seem like a good city for VS.
 
Nola
Posts: 273
Joined: Thu May 29, 2014 1:40 am

Re: AUS to become a Delta Focus City

Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:12 pm

kavok wrote:
Don’t be surprised if DL adds a few small to midsize destinations in the Deep South from AUS. I am talking about MEM, MSY, LIT, BHM, etc.

The Deep South has historically been DL territory, but the problem for the cities mentioned above is that pax wanting to go westward from those destinations have to backtrack to ATL if they want to fly on DL. Adding AUS could serve as a good connection point from those cities for DL pax heading to LAX, SAN, PHX, SLC, etc.


This would make a lot of sense for MSY, except for California or SLC because DL has nonstop flights to LAX (multiple daily) and SLC (2x daily, I think). But passengers heading to PHX, LAS, DEN, ORD, have to either fly backwards to ATL, up to DTW or overfly to SLC, which probably costs DL some business. I know that once I knew I was hitting my target for MQM/MQD, I started taking WN to LAS and ORD because WN had nonstops.
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