12 x 763F
12 x 777F


Boeing, FedEx Express Announce Order for 24 Medium and Large Freighters
http://boeing.mediaroom.com/2018-06-19- ... Freighters

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FX continues to slowly add to its order book. Currently has 53 767 and 6 777 pending orders.

Great to see orders for both these planes. Still lots of MD11s/A300s to be retired and nothing in the pipeline from A or B to replace them.

Good. Congrats Boeing and Fedex.

What happens to the 777 freighters when 777X line is in full swing?

That's good news. Congrats to Fed Ex and Boeing! With the 767 production still going on, the airplane will grace the skies for many more years. By the time Fed Ex gets its last unit coming out of the production line, the 767 will be 40, or at least close.

janders wrote:

Good. Congrats Boeing and Fedex.

What happens to the 777 freighters when 777X line is in full swing?

778s? I imagine they are getting great prices on these birds.

janders wrote:

Good. Congrats Boeing and Fedex.

What happens to the 777 freighters when 777X line is in full swing?

Mitsubishi is on contract to produce 777 metal wings as long is there is demand on a certain allowed ramp down rate.

Eventually there will be a 778F. That plane is perfect for hauling cargo. But Boeing and GE want to keep the GE,90 powered 777 in production to reduce the manufacturing cost of spare parts as that increases profits.

Lightsaber

airzona11 wrote:

Great to see orders for both these planes. Still lots of MD11s/A300s to be retired and nothing in the pipeline from A or B to replace them.

Fedex still has MD-10's (DC-10's) to retire.

wedgetail737 wrote:

airzona11 wrote:

Great to see orders for both these planes. Still lots of MD11s/A300s to be retired and nothing in the pipeline from A or B to replace them.

Fedex still has MD-10's (DC-10's) to retire.

Still nothing better than seeing one of those!

lightsaber wrote:

janders wrote:

Good. Congrats Boeing and Fedex.

What happens to the 777 freighters when 777X line is in full swing?

Mitsubishi is on contract to produce 777 metal wings as long is there is demand on a certain allowed ramp down rate.

Eventually there will be a 778F. That plane is perfect for hauling cargo. But Boeing and GE want to keep the GE,90 powered 777 in production to reduce the manufacturing cost of spare parts as that increases profits.

Lightsaber

A bit of hype around a possible 777-8F. It would most likely have a significant higher OEW compared to a 777F, combined with a similar MTOW. I assume the 777F will have a long life and we will perhaps never see a 777-8F.

That will help fill the production bridge to the 777x. The freight market picked up just in time to extend the life of the 767F, 777F and 747F. Without the booming freight market the 767 line would exclusively be for tankers, 777 production rates would be lower and the 747 production line would have already closed.

FedEx really wants to simplify its fleet to 3 types. Might they consider the B737-800BCF?

I wonder if we're gonna ever get another 748F order... Or maybe just that Amazon 76F lol

janders wrote:

Good. Congrats Boeing and Fedex.

What happens to the 777 freighters when 777X line is in full swing?

Same thing that is happening to the 737NG's still on order now that 737Max is being produced. I think it might even be possible to order new NG's, if an airline only wanted to add a few to their existing fleet, or at least outstanding Options.

As a side note, I was just thinking that the 767 keeps clinging onto life, but when I looked up the order and delivery chart on wikipedia, it shows that one one year since it launched in 1978 did Boeing get triple digit orders, and only 6 years did they get over 50 orders. With this FedEx order they now have a bigger backlog than they did the year they started delivering the first frames.

FX also won't be affected by the wing cracking issue on the 767W at the moment, as they don't operate wingleted 767s. That's one positive for them as well. No point paying for winglets if there isn't any need for them on the FX fleet, and it might have saved them even more money if the remedial work becomes expensive and time-consuming.

That issue aside, I'm pleasantly surprised at one of my favourite hard-workers getting its second life as new-build freighters. Still plenty of mileage in the 767-300ERF

mjoelnir wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

janders wrote:

Good. Congrats Boeing and Fedex.

What happens to the 777 freighters when 777X line is in full swing?

Mitsubishi is on contract to produce 777 metal wings as long is there is demand on a certain allowed ramp down rate.

Eventually there will be a 778F. That plane is perfect for hauling cargo. But Boeing and GE want to keep the GE,90 powered 777 in production to reduce the manufacturing cost of spare parts as that increases profits.

Lightsaber

A bit of hype around a possible 777-8F. It would most likely have a significant higher OEW compared to a 777F, combined with a similar MTOW. I assume the 777F will have a long life and we will perhaps never see a 777-8F.

A 778F would also be larger, while requiring less weight for fuel so around similar range as the 77F.

airzona11 wrote:

Still lots of MD11s/A300s to be retired and nothing in the pipeline from A or B to replace them.

The 767-300 will lift more payload volume and more payload weight than an A300-600RF and fly it farther. Ditto the 777 Freighter and the MD-11F.

Channex757 wrote:

FX also won't be affected by the wing cracking issue on the 767W at the moment, as they don't operate wingleted 767s.

They had one aircraft that they dewingleted (if that is a word).

Congrats to Boeing and Fedex. 767 the production line that refuses to die! Boeing must be able to offer really good prices on the 67 as all of the cost were paid for long ago. Pure gravy! or maybe a way to offset the bath they are taking on the tanker.

Boeing will probably keep the 777F capability in the line long after the last passenger version is gone.. shoot it'll be a nice profit center as well as an economical buy for those airlines wanting a that size freighter.. the 777x freighter is way way down the road if it ever goes into production.

Newbiepilot wrote:

That will help fill the production bridge to the 777x. The freight market picked up just in time to extend the life of the 767F, 777F and 747F. Without the booming freight market the 767 line would exclusively be for tankers, 777 production rates would be lower and the 747 production line would have already closed.

Randy was predicting a pickup in the freighter market for many years in vain. It finally happened, so these lines have a few more years work. I still wish that UA had ordered more 767s.

Channex757 wrote:

FX also won't be affected by the wing cracking issue on the 767W at the moment, as they don't operate wingleted 767s. That's one positive for them as well. No point paying for winglets if there isn't any need for them on the FX fleet, and it might have saved them even more money if the remedial work becomes expensive and time-consuming.

That issue aside, I'm pleasantly surprised at one of my favourite hard-workers getting its second life as new-build freighters. Still plenty of mileage in the 767-300ERF

Wing cracking issue?

dispatchguy wrote:

Channex757 wrote:

FX also won't be affected by the wing cracking issue on the 767W at the moment, as they don't operate wingleted 767s.

They had one aircraft that they dewingleted (if that is a word).

Which one? I'm curios about this.

Stitch wrote:

airzona11 wrote:

Still lots of MD11s/A300s to be retired and nothing in the pipeline from A or B to replace them.

The 767-300 will lift more payload volume and more payload weight than an A300-600RF and fly it farther. Ditto the 777 Freighter and the MD-11F.

The Boeing 777 freighters are likely MD-11 replacements (or partial replacements, currently 59 strong). However, you still have the MD-10s (39 remaining), A310s (5 remaining), the A300P2Fs (35 strong) and the 737-400Fs (6 strong, inherited from the TNT acquisition) to replace (beyond that, there are 33 A300 purpose-built freighters and 59 MD-11s, both purpose-built and converted). I expect another top-up order down the line for both the 767 and 777 freighters to retire the A300s ordered new and the MD-11s to simplify the fleet. For those 85 planes, FedEx still has about 100 orders or options on the 767, which could well ensure 50 years of production for the plane that just does not want to die.

That said, I'd be surprised if FedEx did NOT order Boeing 737-800BCF aircraft to replace the 757 on some routes (moving 757s elsewhere to routes currently plied by the A300 or A310, both for US and European operations).

Spacepope wrote:

dispatchguy wrote:

Channex757 wrote:

FX also won't be affected by the wing cracking issue on the 767W at the moment, as they don't operate wingleted 767s.

They had one aircraft that they dewingleted (if that is a word).

Which one? I'm curios about this.

N297FE, which was purchased secondhand from Silk Way West after just 3 years of service with that freight carrier. (The other one purchased secondhand from Silk Way West, N298FE, did not have winglets.) FedEx had operated 3 other wingleted B763s, but they had been leased from LATAM Airlines Group on a 3-year lease and have since been returned to LATAM.

Max Q wrote:

Channex757 wrote:

FX also won't be affected by the wing cracking issue on the 767W at the moment, as they don't operate wingleted 767s. That's one positive for them as well. No point paying for winglets if there isn't any need for them on the FX fleet, and it might have saved them even more money if the remedial work becomes expensive and time-consuming.

That issue aside, I'm pleasantly surprised at one of my favourite hard-workers getting its second life as new-build freighters. Still plenty of mileage in the 767-300ERF

Wing cracking issue?

There is an ongoing thing at the moment, 767s with Aviation Partners winglets are experiencing some cracking

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... 7s-449526/

This might affect UPS and DHL but not FedEx.

It is interesting to watch the monopoly dominated by Boeing in freighter market. Why is Airbus with no answer since years ?

I had a look at Boeing Order and Deliveries website, it shows FedEx has 108 763F order (not including this new order) with 55 deliveries as at end of May and 53 unfilled order. This new order will bring total number of factory fresh order to 120 B763F. Once all deliveries are completed and assuming no retirement/lease return, they will have 122 B763F in inventory (another two N297FE and N298FE are ex-Silk Way West Airlines).

As for B772F, they have 34 orders. Out of these 34, 28 delivered and 6 unfilled order. With this new order, total 772F fleet in future will be 42.

FedEx currently has 39 DC-10, 59-MD-11, 68 A300 and 5 A310. Total of 171 aircraft to be replaced. They definitely need more B763F and B772F.

Bricktop wrote:

Newbiepilot wrote:

. I still wish that UA had ordered more 767s.

UA tried, but Boeing couldn’t make it happen (most likely for the right price)

aemoreira1981 wrote:

FedEx really wants to simplify its fleet to 3 types. Might they consider the B737-800BCF?

The 757's aren't getting any younger,and were used when FX got them.

Fantastic news. This order adds 3-4 months worth of 777 production. Boeing must be at or near enough 777 orders to bridge the gap until the 77X. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

I'd like to know how many outstanding 777 orders there are versus production slots available that will allow for that production gap to be fully covered, if it's not already.

Thanks!

aemoreira1981 wrote:

Spacepope wrote:

dispatchguy wrote:

They had one aircraft that they dewingleted (if that is a word).

Which one? I'm curios about this.

N297FE, which was purchased secondhand from Silk Way West after just 3 years of service with that freight carrier. (The other one purchased secondhand from Silk Way West, N298FE, did not have winglets.) FedEx had operated 3 other wingleted B763s, but they had been leased from LATAM Airlines Group on a 3-year lease and have since been returned to LATAM.

Thanks for that. All could think of were the leased LATAM birds.

FriscoHeavy wrote:

Fantastic news. This order adds 3-4 months worth of 777 production. Boeing must be at or near enough 777 orders to bridge the gap until the 77X. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

I'd like to know how many outstanding 777 orders there are versus production slots available that will allow for that production gap to be fully covered, if it's not already.

Thanks!

In one of the news articles, it was reported that the new Fedex 777 order would begin after the production gap requirement. So, new orders that will fill out the production line in the early to mid 2020s but not a gap filler.

That is potentially good news for us aviation lovers as it leaves additional slots to be filled by another taker! Maybe a top up order or someone similar to SWISS who was late to the 777 party but has fallen in love with the 77W.

CX747 wrote:

FriscoHeavy wrote:

Fantastic news. This order adds 3-4 months worth of 777 production. Boeing must be at or near enough 777 orders to bridge the gap until the 77X. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

I'd like to know how many outstanding 777 orders there are versus production slots available that will allow for that production gap to be fully covered, if it's not already.

Thanks!

In one of the news articles, it was reported that the new Fedex 777 order would begin after the production gap requirement. So, new orders that will fill out the production line in the early to mid 2020s but not a gap filler.

That is potentially good news for us aviation lovers as it leaves additional slots to be filled by another taker! Maybe a top up order or someone similar to SWISS who was late to the 777 party but has fallen in love with the 77W.

Thank you for that information. I didn't deep-dive into the news articles.
Much appreciated.

In a couple of years time Boeing could be producing more 767's than 777's.

travelhound wrote:

In a couple of years time Boeing could be producing more 767's than 777's.

Quite possible. I imagine the airforce will allocate more funding for additional tankers. And don't forget that other branches of the military (including national guard units) all operate tankers as well. And of course there are our NATO partners and other allies who will have their eyes on them at some point.

Someone mentioned we'll be seeing the 767 in the air for a long time. I don't think they even thought about how long the government will keep those tankers flying. They'll be in the air still when my grand children are born I suspect.. and probably beyond that.

United_fan wrote:

aemoreira1981 wrote:

FedEx really wants to simplify its fleet to 3 types. Might they consider the B737-800BCF?

The 757's aren't getting any younger,and were used when FX got them.

Someone is going to develop an A321F.

trpmb6 wrote:

travelhound wrote:

In a couple of years time Boeing could be producing more 767's than 777's.

Quite possible. I imagine the airforce will allocate more funding for additional tankers. And don't forget that other branches of the military (including national guard units) all operate tankers as well. And of course there are our NATO partners and other allies who will have their eyes on them at some point.

Someone mentioned we'll be seeing the 767 in the air for a long time. I don't think they even thought about how long the government will keep those tankers flying. They'll be in the air still when my grand children are born I suspect.. and probably beyond that.

Given how long they have operated the existing KC135 platform it is very well possible.

trpmb6 wrote:

travelhound wrote:

In a couple of years time Boeing could be producing more 767's than 777's.

Quite possible. I imagine the airforce will allocate more funding for additional tankers. And don't forget that other branches of the military (including national guard units) all operate tankers as well. And of course there are our NATO partners and other allies who will have their eyes on them at some point.

Someone mentioned we'll be seeing the 767 in the air for a long time. I don't think they even thought about how long the government will keep those tankers flying. They'll be in the air still when my grand children are born I suspect.. and probably beyond that.

Won't any tankers allocated to the ANG be acquired through a USAF run contract then transferred? Regardless of who runs the contract though, the current KC-46 plan only includes about half as many air frames as the KC-135 fleet. Perhaps they'll shrink the total fleet further than they already have as the force strategy evolves, or choose a fleet mix with more large tankers down the road when the KC-10 replacement approaches, but it seems like a given there will be more KC-46's ordered at some point.

Even aside from the KC-46, I'm intrigued by arguments the 767 could be in production as a commercial freighter for quite a few more years still, as there's not anything in the works that really displaces it. A part of me is disappointed the A330F doesn't seem to have gained much traction, but another part is happy to see 767 orders keep trickling in.

[threeid][/threeid]

ILNFlyer wrote:

United_fan wrote:

aemoreira1981 wrote:

FedEx really wants to simplify its fleet to 3 types. Might they consider the B737-800BCF?

The 757's aren't getting any younger,and were used when FX got them.

Someone is going to develop an A321F.

For those that don’t know, PEMCO (a subsidiary of ATSG) is developing the A321F STC now down in TPA. Rumors were swirling that it would be finished in 2019, but I’m not sure.

FedEx will retire the remaining A-310 by the end of this year.
All the DC/MD-10s will be retired as new 767s are delivered.
They will keep the newest MD-11s and A-300s and retire the rest.

cosyr wrote:

janders wrote:

Good. Congrats Boeing and Fedex.

What happens to the 777 freighters when 777X line is in full swing?

Same thing that is happening to the 737NG's still on order now that 737Max is being produced. I think it might even be possible to order new NG's, if an airline only wanted to add a few to their existing fleet, or at least outstanding Options.

As a side note, I was just thinking that the 767 keeps clinging onto life, but when I looked up the order and delivery chart on wikipedia, it shows that one one year since it launched in 1978 did Boeing get triple digit orders, and only 6 years did they get over 50 orders. With this FedEx order they now have a bigger backlog than they did the year they started delivering the first frames.

The NG's will be built for a very long time, they will be making the P-8's for a decade or more. At some point only the one line that makes the P-8's will make NG's. The other lines will all be MAX lines.

The 767's are getting increased production, I recall it was down to 2.5 per month, ramping up to 3.5 per month over the next few years, so this order takes that extra bird for a year. Their book to build ratio has looked decent of late.

JayinKitsap wrote:

cosyr wrote:

Same thing that is happening to the 737NG's still on order now that 737Max is being produced. I think it might even be possible to order new NG's, if an airline only wanted to add a few to their existing fleet, or at least outstanding Options.

The NG's will be built for a very long time, they will be making the P-8's for a decade or more. At some point only the one line that makes the P-8's will make NG's. The other lines will all be MAX lines.

NG's will terminate in late 2019 to early 2020 (per latest AvWeek article) and won't be built on the P-8 line (ITAR issues).

The 737NG - according to the MAX Production thread - will be produced until 2020 at the latest (unless something drastic changes). I can't imagine why an airline would not be willing to accept a mature MAX over an NG at that point?

EDIT - Didn't see the post above mine before hitting submit.

trpmb6 wrote:

travelhound wrote:

In a couple of years time Boeing could be producing more 767's than 777's.

Quite possible. I imagine the airforce will allocate more funding for additional tankers. And don't forget that other branches of the military (including national guard units) all operate tankers as well. And of course there are our NATO partners and other allies who will have their eyes on them at some point.

Someone mentioned we'll be seeing the 767 in the air for a long time. I don't think they even thought about how long the government will keep those tankers flying. They'll be in the air still when my grand children are born I suspect.. and probably beyond that.

Not to mention the AF is going to need NEACP/AF2/E3/JSTAR/Looking Glass replacements soon

airzona11 wrote:

Still lots of MD11s/A300s to be retired and nothing in the pipeline from A or B to replace them.

The A330F and 777F are both MD11/A300 replacements for freight operators. I'm sure that there will eventually be an A350F and 787F, but there's not a huge demand for these yet or A/B would be developing them.

The A350 is designed with a nose gear long enough that the aircraft sits flat on the ground with no nose-down attitude like the A330/A340 family (there is a veeery slight nose-down on the A350, but only barely just). There is also no upward rise in the aft main deck. I have to think that Airbus had future development/conversion to a cargo model in mind when they designed it this way.

iamlucky13 wrote:

Won't any tankers allocated to the ANG be acquired through a USAF run contract then transferred? Regardless of who runs the contract though, the current KC-46 plan only includes about half as many air frames as the KC-135 fleet. Perhaps they'll shrink the total fleet further than they already have as the force strategy evolves, or choose a fleet mix with more large tankers down the road when the KC-10 replacement approaches, but it seems like a given there will be more KC-46's ordered at some point.

Even aside from the KC-46, I'm intrigued by arguments the 767 could be in production as a commercial freighter for quite a few more years still, as there's not anything in the works that really displaces it. A part of me is disappointed the A330F doesn't seem to have gained much traction, but another part is happy to see 767 orders keep trickling in.

I don't think we'll see a 1:1 replacement of the KC-135 fleet by KC-46. Over time missions will shift to aircraft with little or no need to tank (UAV etc) or the tanker mission will migrate to tanker UAVs (MQ-25, etc).

N297FE had its winglets removed by ST Aerospace in BFM flew to MEM now having the LDS cockpit installed. N298FE was completed first and is now stored in IND awaiting certification approval.
EFW & ST Aerospace have a A320/321 P2F program ready to launch. They keep C checking MD10's & repainted a couple early this year. Hopefully some of the PW powered A300 get the axe soon or lease return some early new builds.

mjoelnir wrote:

A bit of hype around a possible 777-8F. It would most likely have a significant higher OEW compared to a 777F, combined with a similar MTOW. I assume the 777F will have a long life and we will perhaps never see a 777-8F.

But a significant drop in fuel weight for the 778F on the same range. And a significant increase in volume for non-weight limited operators like Fedex, UPS who carry around a lot of small packages. Nevertheless, I see a possibility that the 778 passenger version never gets produced...then 778F never gets built.

B could just product the existing 777F indefinitely just like it makes the 767 freighter -- if the orders keep coming.

DocLightning wrote:

airzona11 wrote:

Still lots of MD11s/A300s to be retired and nothing in the pipeline from A or B to replace them.

The A330F and 777F are both MD11/A300 replacements for freight operators. I'm sure that there will eventually be an A350F and 787F, but there's not a huge demand for these yet or A/B would be developing them.

The A350 is designed with a nose gear long enough that the aircraft sits flat on the ground with no nose-down attitude like the A330/A340 family (there is a veeery slight nose-down on the A350, but only barely just). There is also no upward rise in the aft main deck. I have to think that Airbus had future development/conversion to a cargo model in mind when they designed it this way.

While it helps, I don’t think future cargo versions is the primary reason the A350 is near level- that usually just standard with aircraft design. The A330/A340 have the noticeable nose down angle because they have a beefed up and taller MLG compared to the A300, while having a similar sized (but not identical) nose gear so Airbus didn’t have to extensively modify the nose gear bay (The A330/A340 was already getting a new wing/center fuselage so changes there with gear didn’t matter).

wrenchon727 wrote:

N297FE had its winglets removed by ST Aerospace in BFM flew to MEM now having the LDS cockpit installed. N298FE was completed first and is now stored in IND awaiting certification approval.
EFW & ST Aerospace have a A320/321 P2F program ready to launch. They keep C checking MD10's & repainted a couple early this year. Hopefully some of the PW powered A300 get the axe soon or lease return some early new builds.

And PEMCO is cutting metal on their first A321 conversion already ahead of the EFW program. I'm curious to see if it flies this year. AEI is seeing delay after delat in the 738P2F program that was supposed to have flown long ago...

musman9853 wrote:

Not to mention the AF is going to need NEACP/AF2/E3/JSTAR/Looking Glass replacements soon

I don't know the intent for all of those, but for JSTARS the USAF was at least in the past planning to shift to a smaller aircraft (737 or business jet based) to carry the sensors and communicate the data to the ground, rather than carry personnel handling battlefield management in addition to the system operators. Also, some of the data gathering role is supposed to shift to UAV's.

Plans prior to that based on the 767 were cancelled.