Breeze - News and Discussion Thread - 2020

LAXintl · Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:25 am

David Neeleman, who started JetBlue Airways Corp. with $100 million in 2000, is raising money to launch a new low-cost carrier focused on secondary airports in the U.S.

The airline, to be called Moxy Airways, has secured orders for 60 Bombardier CS300 aircraft, a trade journal reported, citing people familiar with the matter. The first would arrive in 2020. Moxy is attempting to raise $100 million to begin services that same year, the journal reported.

JetBlue Founder Raising Funds for New U.S. Airline
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... eport-says

=

Guess Neeleman cant sit still and always chasing a new gig.

SierraPacific · Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:26 am

I wish him well. It is always nice to hear new callsigns on frequency.

neomax · Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:53 am

Wish him the best!

alfa164 · Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:54 am

Moxy?

YellowJ · Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:59 am

Again?

flyPIT · Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:04 am

LAXintl wrote:
Guess Neeleman cant sit still and always chasing a new gig.

Well, he does have a great track record.

Looks like Robert Milton (former CEO of Air Canada and Chairman of United) and Henri Courpron (former ILFC CEO) are also on board.
https://newsroom.aviator.aero/david-neeleman-to-launch-moxy-airways-a-new-us-based-lcc/

Jamake1 · Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:04 am

This is very exciting...

TWA772LR · Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:19 am

Anyone else notice in the article that theyre looking to fly to Fort Worth?

I'm excited! Neeleman is great at starting airlines and he has a good team with him! Plus more CSeries orders! I cant wait for the base announcement and livery release!

FlyingElvii · Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:47 am

Southwest started as that alternative airports airline, and Neeleman likely thinks the time is ripe for another to try it. Fort Worth, Concord Regional, Gary, or a dozen others have potential in growing urban areas. And someone needs to take on the political monopoly Delta has bought in Atlanta.

tortugamon · Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:51 am

Exciting news. This guy is a pro and there is a definite need/opportunity for this kind of product. Wishing them the best.

tortugamon

msycajun · Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:54 am

I'm a bit skeptical of the secondary airport point to point strategy. F9 and G4 have been able to cherry pick a lot of those routes, but most only work with the ULCC model and low frequency. You'd have a harder time convincing enough people to pay more for a nicer service to an alternative airport. Even more so when you don't have a connecting network and convenient higher frequency service.

I could see there being a niche for a jetBlue type carrier in the midwest/south central US. East coast has B6, west has AS, you've got WN in the middle, but they don't codeshare and have a very limited international network. An airline with a few centrally located hubs that offers good service and codeshares with a variety of international airlines could have some appeal.

AirFiero · Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:30 am

How about MKC as a hub, when the terminal is improved?

ilovelamp · Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:37 am

And where do they plan on getting pilots? With all of the movement the legacy and majors will be seeing in the next 10 years, I doubt many pilots, even those at a regional or other LCCs, will take the risk to work there.

seansasLCY · Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:20 am

Moxy is already a hotel chain by Marriott. Is this just a project name and it'll be renamed before launch?

phatfarmlines · Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:59 am

seansasLCY wrote:
Moxy is already a hotel chain by Marriott. Is this just a project name and it'll be renamed before launch?

As was the case with "New Air", Neeleman's project code name from the 90's, which became Jetblue.

csturdiv · Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:05 pm

seansasLCY wrote:
Moxy is already a hotel chain by Marriott. Is this just a project name and it'll be renamed before launch?

It is also slang, meaning guts or courage (sometimes spelled moxie). That is what I thought of when first reading the name.

FatCat · Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:27 pm

The name reminds me of those dishwater-discharge-water-coffees you fellas buy in Starbucks across the Pond. :rotfl:

Wish him all the best anyway. The CSeries are great regionals - pax point of view.

VS11 · Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:42 pm

Maybe Sir Richard Branson will team up with him this time. Branson passed on being part of JetBlue and regretted it so after the VX acquisition, this might be a good opportunity for the two of them to join forces - they have similar visions .

william · Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:55 pm

There is an airline that does that already, its called Allegiant.

lavalampluva · Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:15 pm

A lot of airlines tried to fly in/out of GYY. None of them lasted long. I just don't know. I guess it's worth a try.

lowfareair · Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:20 pm

The biggest question mark I see here isn't the use of smaller airports, but rather the lack of connecting flights. The cost of providing them has gone down considerably over the years and it will be tough to fill the planes without that, especially if they want to get more than the leisure traveler going to Orlando or Vegas.

stlgph · Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:27 pm

The C Series. YES.

enilria · Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:40 pm

lowfareair wrote:
The biggest question mark I see here isn't the use of smaller airports, but rather the lack of connecting flights. The cost of providing them has gone down considerably over the years and it will be tough to fill the planes without that, especially if they want to get more than the leisure traveler going to Orlando or Vegas.

Allegiant is in trouble if this gets launched. You guys ever figure out where Andrew Levy went?

MapleLeaf789 · Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:45 pm

He also helped start Azul and I believe was a part of the Westjet story when it was coming to fruition.

He clearly likes building blocks.

MIflyer12 · Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:57 pm

FlyingElvii wrote:
Southwest started as that alternative airports airline, and Neeleman likely thinks the time is ripe for another to try it. Fort Worth, Concord Regional, Gary, or a dozen others have potential in growing urban areas. And someone needs to take on the political monopoly Delta has bought in Atlanta.

Secondary airports are great when primary airports are capacity-constrained for long periods. Some of that is by politics (gate limits at LAX due to a noise control suit), stupidity (lack of investment at LHR and LGW) and some by function of timing (I'll suggest BOS). But look at how MHT and PVD cratered as BOS got better facilities. I don't know how one builds a comprehensive network around a secondary airports strategy. When WN went big into BWI, DEN and entered LGA/EWR/SFO, we see that they gave up on it as a strategy.

I'd like to see what average fares Neeleman can get on routes like Gary to Sanford, or Rockford to Mesa.

UpNAWAy · Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:00 pm

FlyingElvii wrote:
Southwest started as that alternative airports airline, and Neeleman likely thinks the time is ripe for another to try it. Fort Worth, Concord Regional, Gary, or a dozen others have potential in growing urban areas. And someone needs to take on the political monopoly Delta has bought in Atlanta.

Atlanta has some potential targets with MCN in the south, PDK right in the center and LZU on the northwest side....I very much like the idea of flying from Meachum not so much Alliance....

sunking737 · Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:09 pm

Why do some think G4, SY, NK or F9 are doomed. If I was the big 3 i would worry. He is going to fly east coast first, then the left coast, then middle of the country. You can undercut wages too much and you end up with bottom of the barrel types. Now the regional carries will lose crews if the can move up faster.

janders · Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:15 pm

Suppose the mans ADHD strikes again.
As typical with his career, he does not stick to things (current projects Azul & TAP) and instead always chasing the 'next' thing.

Wish him luck, but its getting harger and harder for upstarts these days. Also dont really see CS300 as the most ideal for upstart (except maybe very low pricing).

behramjee · Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:27 pm

C Series 300 would work well and the future secondary airports that they should focus on in the long run for 'hub like operations' are as follows:

West coast - SJC or OAK + BUR

Midwest - MDW or MCI

South - SAT (San Antonio) + SFB (Orlando Sanford)

East Coast - BWI

N766UA · Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:27 pm

Does Maine know about this?

Bjm0517 · Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:30 pm

I don’t like the name, but the CS300 is a good aircraft, glad to see some more competition to lower prices :spin:

Bjm0517 · Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:35 pm

behramjee wrote:
C Series 300 would work well and the future secondary airports that they should focus on in the long run for 'hub like operations' are as follows:

West coast - SJC or OAK + BUR

Midwest - MDW or MCI

South - SAT (San Antonio) + SFB (Orlando Sanford)

East Coast - BWI

If they wanna expand into New York City, the closest “secondary” airport is probably ISP, but don’t quote me on that and that is not close to NYC at all. It takes atleast 3 hours with NYC traffic to get from NYC to Islip, so they would probably have to use a NYC area airport, im guessing LGA, but I’m not sure if the CS300 can land at LGA, can it? It’s an exiting idea... but some areas won’t work with the “secondary” airport idea

Polot · Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:36 pm

behramjee wrote:
C Series 300 would work well and the future secondary airports that they should focus on in the long run for 'hub like operations' are as follows:

West coast - SJC or OAK + BUR

Midwest - MDW or MCI

South - SAT (San Antonio) + SFB (Orlando Sanford)

East Coast - BWI

I’m not sure focusing on WN strongholds would be a winning strategy.

Neeleman’s primary MO is to focus on neglected markets (ie Western Canada in the mid 90s, LCC in the NYC market at turn of century and domestic out of JFK), not start head to head against an established giant competing for similar pax.

Fex180 · Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:42 pm

N766UA wrote:
Does Maine know about this?

I was just going to say, if they're calling the airline "Moxy / Moxie " They need to base themselves at PWM . Moxie is our thing

Runway28L · Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:53 pm

Well that’s one way Bombardier could’ve secured a decent NA order for the C Series that I would’ve never predicted

ExMilitaryEng · Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:03 pm

Wow, David Neeleman, born in Sao Paulo, Brazil. The same guy that ordered a bunch of Embraer 190/195s (at JetBlue and at Azul). To say the least, he must have an in-depth knowledge of the E195E2 performance.

And he ended up picking the CS300 as the best aircraft for the job... :stirthepot:

catiii · Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:04 pm

Bjm0517 wrote:
I’m not sure if the CS300 can land at LGA, can it? It’s an exiting idea... but some areas won’t work with the “secondary” airport idea

Why wouldn't a CS300 be able to use LGA?

Alias1024 · Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:04 pm

Sounds like another Skybus. P2P from secondary airports already failed once in the US, but maybe this has a better chance. I see two things going for them beyond an experienced group of leaders.

1) Their timing is unlikely to be as bad as Skybus. They had a tanking economy and sharply rising fuel costs to contend with. I could happen again, but odds are one or both will be better for this startup.

2) Rideshare apps. One of the problems with the Ryanair model in the US is lack of decent public transportation options to those secondary airports. While not as cheap as public transit, they certainly make it easier to get to and from secondary airports.

WNflyer1523 · Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:07 pm

I wonder what their NYC area airport will be.
We can likely rule out LGA, JFK, and EWR.
TEB is too small. HPN is already full, and SWF is pretty far away.
Maybe they can try FRG? I’d go with ISP, but ISP mainly serves a market of its own. ISP is just under 2 hours (give or take depending on traffic) from Manhattan, but since there’s a train station right across from the airport, maybe they can try and lure people to go to NYC that way.

TWA302 · Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:13 pm

william wrote:
There is an airline that does that already, its called Allegiant.

Nothing better than some healthy competition! If they do target G4 they better have their ducks in a row.

I wonder how Marriott will take this as Moxy is one of the brands in their hotel property arsenal?

drmlnr1 · Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:25 pm

Where do I sign up to be either first passenger or an employee?

MCIRNO · Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:29 pm

AirFiero wrote:
How about MKC as a hub, when the terminal is improved?

As much as I'd like to see an airline restarting service to the downtown airport in Kansas City, I just don't see it. Maybe they could have a starting hub at MCI with easy access to all corners of the US.

ual763 · Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:30 pm

This is very interesting! And exciting! Can’t wait to see their livery

Fex180 · Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:32 pm

ual763 wrote:
This is very interesting! And exciting! Can’t wait to see their livery

Bright Orange with white accents, like the soft drink of the same name .....or their precursor Skybus

FlyPeoria · Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:44 pm

I hope "Moxy" looks at DAY. It is sad to see what air service there has become compared to even 10 years ago, let alone 20.

Jouhou · Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:11 pm

If he opens routes in New England, consider me a loyal customer already. A quality airline with quality aircraft.

EWRandMDW · Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:13 pm

WNflyer1523 wrote:
I wonder what their NYC area airport will be.
We can likely rule out LGA, JFK, and EWR.
TEB is too small. HPN is already full, and SWF is pretty far away.
Maybe they can try FRG? I’d go with ISP, but ISP mainly serves a market of its own. ISP is just under 2 hours (give or take depending on traffic) from Manhattan, but since there’s a train station right across from the airport, maybe they can try and lure people to go to NYC that way.

How about TTN? It is roughly equidistant to New York and Philadelphia, there's a nearby rail line with service existing via SEPTA to Philly and where service to Newark and NYC on NJT could be restored. I 95 passes by the airport, the NJ and PA Turnpikes are not far away. There is passenger potential galore. Many big pharma companies (BM-S, J&J, etc) are in the area and Princeton University and the Institute for Advanced Studies as well as state and local colleges are in place and within 15 miles of the field. F9 showed that TTN can work, so why not?

flyguy84 · Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:28 pm

FlyPeoria wrote:
I hope "Moxy" looks at DAY. It is sad to see what air service there has become compared to even 10 years ago, let alone 20.

The market is no longer there. DAY is a shrinking city. Plenty of service down the road at CVG/IND/CMH.

Flighty · Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:29 pm

The airports are certainly there. The US has a staggering number of quality, under-utilized secondary airports.

Is the business case there? Possibly, but it would have to be along some sort of new business model, with people downloading an app and voting for flights or something. Not saying impossible, just saying we don't currently know a business model that works at secondary airports beyond what Allegiant is doing.

lowfareair · Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:33 pm

EWRandMDW wrote:
WNflyer1523 wrote:
I wonder what their NYC area airport will be.
We can likely rule out LGA, JFK, and EWR.
TEB is too small. HPN is already full, and SWF is pretty far away.
Maybe they can try FRG? I’d go with ISP, but ISP mainly serves a market of its own. ISP is just under 2 hours (give or take depending on traffic) from Manhattan, but since there’s a train station right across from the airport, maybe they can try and lure people to go to NYC that way.

How about TTN? It is roughly equidistant to New York and Philadelphia, there's a nearby rail line with service existing via SEPTA to Philly and where service to Newark and NYC on NJT could be restored. I 95 passes by the airport, the NJ and PA Turnpikes are not far away. There is passenger potential galore. Many big pharma companies (BM-S, J&J, etc) are in the area and Princeton University and the Institute for Advanced Studies as well as state and local colleges are in place and within 15 miles of the field. F9 showed that TTN can work, so why not?

The big issue with TTN is that any growth will face huge backlash from the neighbors, who are relatively affluent and willing to drop money on lawsuits. One bright spot for Moxy is that the CS300 should have no/little range restrictions from the airport.

Who is online

Popular Searches On Airliners.net