Virtual737 wrote:

This is where the unions could actually show some backbone and NOT defend a union member. But of course they wont because the member pays dues and so is effectively a customer, and you cannot publicly shame a customer.... unless you are a union member.

Not to get in your way of union hatred, but a labor union in the US is required to defend any and all diciplinary actions against their members. It’s not a dues paying thing, they must even defend nonmembers that don’t pay dues that are working under a group represented by the union.

"Dumb & dumber.

Entitled guy who flies too many miles a year ("I am more important than you") and will take Twitter on storm to vent his frustrations.

Not very smart FA who acts as a (bad) community manager for UA even if she is not paid for that (as she mentions before, she is only paid for safety stuff).

They both need a life."

Yup - I often wonder how people like Mr. Honig would respond if others took pictures of them and critiqued aspects of their job performance on line for the world to read.

I have friends who are 1K and million milers or more. They are some of the most entitled flyers I know, writing complaints because they weren't smiled at or that it took too long to get a drink. I'm not kidding! Makes you wonder how they handle a real life crisis.

This article posted on the FT home page does a pretty good job of finding fault with the blogger and coming to the defense of the FA. IT raises some pretty good points, such as:

The unhappy Twitter user and possible cabin crew member defended her colleague’s need to eat, reminding the travel writer that his flight might have been delayed or cancelled if the flight attendant had not chosen to eat a salad in the galley rather than demanding the proper meal break that she was entitled to. Then, things got personal. The antagonistic commenter suggested that all this to-do about a cocktail might be symptomatic of something other than poor customer service.
“Always the drunks causing the issues,” the sharp-tongued Twitter user wrote. “Free alcohol … they drink like camels.”
Of course, there were plenty of commenters who were quick to jump to Honig’s defense and relate their own United Airlines customer service horror stories. In some ways the insults from an irate airline employee help to make Honig’s point for him, but there were at least a few followers who seemed to think that taking photographs of a flight attendant’s dinner, policing crew member’s uniforms and raging about a cocktail garnish amounted to being just “plane petty.”
“Can we get the world’s smallest violin?” one Twitter follower wondered. “Seriously.”

[https://www.flyertalk.com/articles/bloggers-twitter-rant-about-united-airlines-earns-cheers-and-a-few-jeers.html

"While I’m certainly no stranger to anonymous online criticism, having worked as a journalist my entire career, this particular situation has led to an awful lot of name calling, ranging from “spoiled millennial brat” to “pathetic liberal snowflake.” Those Fox News comments really are something else.

Tamer commenters pointed out that I was behaving like “a diva,” and that I was being too nit-picky. Well, being nit-picky is my job. I pay close attention to small details, especially those that matter to many of you. We obsess over airlines and bring you the most detailed reviews. It’s why you come to this site. And that’s what we will continue to give you. After all, it’s just, if you will, old-fashioned journalism."

https://thepointsguy.com/news/united-ol ... oned-saga/

tortugamon

after careful consideration, I actually take the side of the UA employee who came to the rescue of her colleague. This blogger, whatever his name is, got all in the business of the flight attendant, taking pictures of a salad dish in the galley, complaining of not having his orange garnish in his drink and questioning the flight path that the pilot took...To me, he definitely comes across as being an over entitled pr%% and a professional instigator. In fact, I applaud the UA employee for coming to the rescue of her fellow employee. However, she definitely took it way to far, crossed the line but some of what she said is also very true about us 'frequent fliers'. Flight attendants put up with a lot and I can see how in this incident, the UA employee was provoked to speak her mind.

jumbojet wrote:

This blogger, whatever his name is

You've been on this forum 15 years... let's not pretend you don't know who Zach Honig is...

jumbojet wrote:

To me, he definitely comes across as being an over entitled pr%% and a professional instigator.

Really? You're entitled to your opinion, but I think in his most recent write up about the incident he makes it pretty clear that these were just casual observations. He's a frequent traveler and a passionate enthusiast like many of us, and he shares his observations accordingly. Of note is that here he was sharing them via his own personal twitter page, not on behalf of ThePointsGuy via a proper post - he wasn't formally reviewing the trip for any sort of publication.

jumbojet wrote:

In fact, I applaud the UA employee for coming to the rescue of her fellow employee.

Let's be clear, she initially denied being a fellow UA employee and tried to pose as just a 'frequent United traveler', having forgotten that she clearly had pictures of herself in uniform on her own twitter page. Not exactly the noble defense of a coworker 'coming to the rescue of her fellow employee'. She also accused Mr. Honig of being a drunk.

jumbojet wrote:

However, she definitely took it way to far, crossed the line but some of what she said is also very true about us 'frequent fliers'..

Agree that she crossed the line, and in my mind to the point where she should be disciplined accordingly as 'speaking her mind' was surely a blatant violation of UA's social media policy for their employees.

winginit wrote:

jumbojet wrote:

This blogger, whatever his name is

You've been on this forum 15 years... let's not pretend you don't know who Zach Honig is...

jumbojet wrote:

To me, he definitely comes across as being an over entitled pr%% and a professional instigator.

Really? You're entitled to your opinion, but I think in his most recent write up about the incident he makes it pretty clear that these were just casual observations. He's a frequent traveler and a passionate enthusiast like many of us, and he shares his observations accordingly. Of note is that here he was sharing them via his own personal twitter page, not on behalf of ThePointsGuy via a proper post - he wasn't formally reviewing the trip for any sort of publication.

jumbojet wrote:

In fact, I applaud the UA employee for coming to the rescue of her fellow employee.

Let's be clear, she initially denied being a fellow UA employee and tried to pose as just a 'frequent United traveler', having forgotten that she clearly had pictures of herself in uniform on her own twitter page. Not exactly the noble defense of a coworker 'coming to the rescue of her fellow employee'. She also accused Mr. Honig of being a drunk.

jumbojet wrote:

However, she definitely took it way to far, crossed the line but some of what she said is also very true about us 'frequent fliers'..

Agree that she crossed the line, and in my mind to the point where she should be disciplined accordingly as 'speaking her mind' was surely a blatant violation of UA's social media policy for their employees.

I think to much is being made over this and I think the OP sensationalized it with the title to the thread. I've read quite a few versions of this story and if you don't know who Zach Honig is, and I am sure there are plenty who don't, then you can easily see how this guy came across as being 'in your face' and quite frankly, direspectful of the UA FA's personal space on the flight. I mean, I have witnessed passengers getting on flight attendants for no reason whatsoever, even threatining to write letters to the CEO for nonsense. I've even given my personal info to a DL flight attendant and told him if the over enttled idiot in 1A writes a nasty letter, to reach out to me so I can defend him. I can easiy see how some FA's can gett very frustrated over situations like this, especially getting paid as little as they do and for having to put up with as much crap as they do. Everybody has their breaking point.

Thinking about this entire thing, it will continue to happen until someone can effectively change the culture, which probably wont happen with the current, flaccid executive team in Willis Tower. With the trite, lazy and downright stupid "Core Four" program, its no wonder the frontline employees think they are mall cops - their management had entitled them to be flycops above all else. It just proves how little effort acumen was applied to changing the culture of 70K + employees. Sure, there are certain work groups that absolutely have to put safety first, but to paint the entire organization with the broad brush of four cheap words is just negligent. Each work group should have their own that ladder up to one CEO objective. It should go something like Oscar = be the best airline in the world. Pilots = Safety and efficiency Mechanics = Safety and quality Gate Agents = Courtesy and efficiency Inflight = Service and Safety. I mean honestly, does the marketing guy need to put Safety first? Does the in-house creative person need to put safety first? ....wait a minute, maybe that is what they have been doing and why their advertising and VIS suck so badly!!! This will continue to happen until someone who has the confidence and clarity to run the airline is running the airline...and that isn't Oscar!

OSUk1d wrote:

Etheereal wrote:

SierraPacific wrote:

It seems like United is the only airline these days that the regional carriers provide a better in-flight experience than mainline

I'm one hundred percent sure even NK provides a better service than them.

I'm one hundred percent sure you've never been on Spirit.

Wrong. I've flown with them to FLL. What i have not is flown UA and DL (will fly DL in november).

winginit wrote:

jumbojet wrote:

This blogger, whatever his name is

You've been on this forum 15 years... let's not pretend you don't know who Zach Honig is

I’ve been on this site for 13 years and I’ve never heard of him. What’s your point?

happycrew wrote:

ual763 wrote:

happycrew wrote:

Hi,

i am a flight attendant working for another airline in another country. Our priority is safety and nothing else. Offering food and drinks is secondary. Trainers tell us that very often.

All that means, is that if you are in the middle of food/beverage service and an emergency may happen, you are to prioritize the handling of the emergency/safety precautions over the handling of the food & drink service. It doesn’t mean you can provide crappy service in a non-emergency situation which happens to be, like, thankfully, 99% of the time.

It means, we dont even have service sometimes. I guess I know much better what it means than anyone else here (except the other flight attendants). Fly with some cheap airline and you know how much service is part of our work

And the reason is pretty much security concerns/issues. My flight on AV in May 1st ,we got no service because after climbing, we were in heavy turbulence for the remaining hour of flight, so they were unable to do their service. they apologized on the speakers due of it, but it was understandable.

Its not that your service is secondary, unless you're Ryanair/spirit/Easyjet where the priority is sales.

winginit wrote:

jumbojet wrote:

This blogger, whatever his name is

You've been on this forum 15 years... let's not pretend you don't know who Zach Honig is...

[quote="jumbojet"]To me, he definitely comes across as being an over entitled pr%% and a professional instigator.[/quote

I have been on this forum for a while too and I check it on a daily basis and i honestly don't know know who this blogger is. But then again I'm not a big fan of bloggers. They should all get a real job!

dz09 wrote:

winginit wrote:

jumbojet wrote:

This blogger, whatever his name is

You've been on this forum 15 years... let's not pretend you don't know who Zach Honig is...

jumbojet wrote:

To me, he definitely comes across as being an over entitled pr%% and a professional instigator.[/quote

I have been on this forum for a while too and I check it on a daily basis and i honestly don't know know who this blogger is. But then again I'm not a big fan of bloggers. They should all get a real job!

Etheereal wrote:

OSUk1d wrote:

Etheereal wrote:

I'm one hundred percent sure even NK provides a better service than them.

I'm one hundred percent sure you've never been on Spirit.

Wrong. I've flown with them to FLL. What i have not is flown UA and DL (will fly DL in november).

Well I guess you think United charges $3 for a can of Coke, too?

[photoid][/photoid]

dz09 wrote:

winginit wrote:

jumbojet wrote:

This blogger, whatever his name is

You've been on this forum 15 years... let's not pretend you don't know who Zach Honig is...

jumbojet wrote:

To me, he definitely comes across as being an over entitled pr%% and a professional instigator.[/quote

I have been on this forum for a while too and I check it on a daily basis and i honestly don't know know who this blogger is. But then again I'm not a big fan of bloggers. They should all get a real job!

Same. Been here a similar time and never heard of him in my life!

dz09 wrote:

I have been on this forum for a while too and I check it on a daily basis and i honestly don't know know who this blogger is. But then again I'm not a big fan of bloggers. They should all get a real job!

No idea who he is either, although I agree an FA caught posing as a customer on the net to attack an industry blogger would lead to firing pretty much anywhere.

I don't really care about the garnish or the salad B.S., although UA has "secret squirrels" who report back the exact same thing the blogger did and employees get disciplined for not following policy all the time. Whether it was a "secret squirrel" or a real customer, the result is likely the same for the employee. Corporate creates these customer programs and if they aren't followed employees get in trouble. That's just the way it is. If you work at Starbucks and you don't follow their new bathroom policy you can kiss your butt goodbye.

jumbojet wrote:

I can easiy see how some FA's can gett very frustrated over situations like this, especially getting paid as little as they do and for having to put up with as much crap as they do. Everybody has their breaking point.

Agree that everyone has a breaking point, but the fact that this whole story came about from a flight attendant's online reaction who wasn't even involved in the incident is I think telling. You can have a breaking point, but if your breaking point is simply hearing about the experience of another flight attendant online you should maybe find an alternative career path. As for compensation, are flight attendants underpaid? I think the average in the US is something like $52,000, which honestly doesn't seem unreasonable but I'm sure many will disagree.

ACDC8 wrote:

I’ve been on this site for 13 years and I’ve never heard of him. What’s your point?

dz09 wrote:

I have been on this forum for a while too and I check it on a daily basis and i honestly don't know know who this blogger is. But then again I'm not a big fan of bloggers. They should all get a real job!

tonystan wrote:

Same. Been here a similar time and never heard of him in my life!

enilria wrote:

No idea who he is either.

If you're familiar with The Points Guy, Zach Honig is one of the site's chief writers behind Brian Kelly. It's an extremely heavily trafficked site and the industry is his profession, so my point is he's not some amateur and generally has a reputation as being transparent, honest, and reasonable whether he's praising or criticizing a carrier.

DL: Can we see your resume?
Her: (slides it over on the desk)
DL: (eyes widen) ...yeah ma'am I'm sorry but this isn't what we're looking for. (places resume in the "Nope" folder)

flymco753 wrote:

DL: Can we see your resume?
Her: (slides it over on the desk)
DL: (eyes widen) ...yeah ma'am I'm sorry but this isn't what we're looking for. (places resume in the "Nope" folder)

That made me laugh.

Today going over some of the tweets directed at Zach have made me pretty sad. Most people seem to agree and support him. It seems that most of the people harassing him, are FAs. I cannot begin to tell you how many people have tweeted replies to him saying f**k you or the likes. A vast majority of these are from FA accounts associated with Airlines such as Alaska, American, United, etc. I even saw a popular Alaska/Virgin twitter pilot attack Zach with a single “Fu*k You” tweet. Some of their profile pictures are in uniform. Some have previous posts showing their employer. So far, the only people I have not seen attack Zach have been Delta FAs. Some probably have, but if they did, their profiles make no mention of, or allude to their employer through pics or whatever. I’m assuming Delta must have relaly strong social media guidelines. And then people wonder why airline service generally sucks in the US...

umm yeah. DL flight attendants do not have a union to protect them. Only one of the major 3 that don’t. DL would fire them immediately. And yes DL does take their social media policies very seriously.

In all honesty, what has me interested in this story is that now Zach is (even?) more famous among the industry workers. And he flies UA a lot. It'll be interesting to see if this has any repercussion on his subsequent flight experiences. What if a "Gianna" is working his cabin on his next flight? I'm grabbing the popcorn.

This is for all the naysayers....

aemoreira1981 wrote:

I actually hope someone from United Airlines is snooping around here. Even if she's based out of San Francisco, she created a liability for the airline and should be at least suspended with final warning. This woman may have tried to scrub the information from her Twitter, but screenshots are forever. She definitely lied about Zach Honig, which will get her in trouble.

Over a travel Writer?? PLEASE!! We're giving this guys too much weight! Are you going to fly United on His recomendadtion? If So? Then you might want to listen to "Bullwinkle J. Moose" because you'd get just as much information.

strfyr51 wrote:

aemoreira1981 wrote:

I actually hope someone from United Airlines is snooping around here. Even if she's based out of San Francisco, she created a liability for the airline and should be at least suspended with final warning. This woman may have tried to scrub the information from her Twitter, but screenshots are forever. She definitely lied about Zach Honig, which will get her in trouble.

Over a travel Writer?? PLEASE!! We're giving this guys too much weight! Are you going to fly United on His recomendadtion? If So? Then you might want to listen to "Bullwinkle J. Moose" because you'd get just as much information.

While I see your point, I doubt a serious company would want premium customers (or any customers) knowing them as the company who is okay with them being subjected to public online shaming by employees with no consequence, just for noting sub-par service. No, the customer isn't always right, and I get that. But what she did would get even a low-level customer service employee reprimanded, at the very least.

I think there are some basic rules in customer facing industries.
1. Don’t attack your customers (the people who actually pay for your wages) publicly.
2. As an employee, stick to the processes of the employer.
3. If you don’t like your job then it’s time to explore new opportunities.
4. As a customer, don’t publicly shame employees.

Having said that, I do fly a lot and sometimes you don’t receive the service or attitude which was advertised and you’ve paid for. In fact it’s not only at airlines, it’s pretty much anywhere. That’s how it is nowadays. Last memorable experience was travelling business on BA. Poor FA only started flying the day before and it was a right shambles throughout the service. Did I receive the service which was advertised? No I didn’t. Was it the FA’s fault? Maybe yes but I rather blame BA for putting her in the bussiness cabin on her 2nd day. Did I complain? No i didn’t.

The point is, social media has become the vent for everything. No one ever is actually talking to the people they are not happy with but instead post it all online. Most of the times they wouldn’t have the balls to tell it into someone’s face but it’s ok on Twitter.

So yeah, I think all parties involved are at fault here for different reasons.

strfyr51 wrote:

aemoreira1981 wrote:

I actually hope someone from United Airlines is snooping around here. Even if she's based out of San Francisco, she created a liability for the airline and should be at least suspended with final warning. This woman may have tried to scrub the information from her Twitter, but screenshots are forever. She definitely lied about Zach Honig, which will get her in trouble.

Over a travel Writer?? PLEASE!! We're giving this guys too much weight! Are you going to fly United on His recomendadtion? If So? Then you might want to listen to "Bullwinkle J. Moose" because you'd get just as much information.

It’s not that he’s a travel writer, but the points that he makes are core to United’s biggest issues in service. The orange peel is a small thing, but I really hate when UA employees make stuff up. “No we don’t serve that”, “no you’re not allowed to make that kind of change”, etc. I’m at 1.9M miles and have mostly had good experiences, but the small stuff gets annoying and it demonstrates a lack of customer centricity that they never seem to care.

senatorflyer wrote:

I think there are some basic rules in customer facing industries.
1. Don’t attack your customers (the people who actually pay for your wages) publicly.
2. As an employee, stick to the processes of the employer.
3. If you don’t like your job then it’s time to explore new opportunities.
4. As a customer, don’t publicly shame employees.

Used to be a business in NZ with the following published rules.

Rule 1. The customer is always right.

Rule 2. If in doubt, re-read Rule 1.

Clearly there are situations, due to safety, commonsense, legality, etc where the customer is only partly right, or perhaps not right at all. But the core of customer service, including even instances where the customer isn't right, is to respond constructively and positively.

The problem ultimately is management. A manager recruited the staff member. A manager is responsible for the staff member. A senior manager is responsible for the manager. And with unions, colleagues and other FA's, who endorse and defend poor service and bad behaviour.

Nearly every staff failure reflects a previous management failure. A dissatisfied customer can, handled well, become a champion for the company. A disaffected staff member can become a role model and champion of positive change in the same company. The outcome is determined by great management.

OSUk1d wrote:

Etheereal wrote:

OSUk1d wrote:

I'm one hundred percent sure you've never been on Spirit.

Wrong. I've flown with them to FLL. What i have not is flown UA and DL (will fly DL in november).

Well I guess you think United charges $3 for a can of Coke, too?

I've been in nightclubs that charge waay more for a glass of coke.

ual763 wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

DL: Can we see your resume?
Her: (slides it over on the desk)
DL: (eyes widen) ...yeah ma'am I'm sorry but this isn't what we're looking for. (places resume in the "Nope" folder)

... And then people wonder why airline service generally sucks in the US...

And thats why the US3 cant compete with the ME3 nor will ever be great: They CANNOT ACCEPT VALID CRITICISM. They will instead attack whoever is trying to "help". Man.

Hi Folks, maybe I am being somewhat naive but whatever happened to that old dictum "the customer is comes first".
Today's self entitlement ,by some, appears to blow that into the ether!
Cheers and have a good day. 325i.

I don’t fly nearly as much as most of you do in here, but I think the blogger raised the issue in a fair manner, pointing out some obvious problems with that FA and was genuinely surprised by her snarky reaction.

To me, one of the biggest problems is that when she realized she was getting in over her head, she tried to lie and say she was not an FA, taking down her photos, when everybody knows that the Internet is forever, right?

The other issue is, when she and other (probable) FAs wouldn’t let it go, they made the problem much worse for themselves and for United.

UPNYGuy wrote:

OSUk1d wrote:

Etheereal wrote:

Wrong. I've flown with them to FLL. What i have not is flown UA and DL (will fly DL in november).

Well I guess you think United charges $3 for a can of Coke, too?

Just because an airline charges for something does NOT mean the service is inferior.

The definition of customer service: the assistance and advice provided by a company to those people who buy or use its products or services.

This does not mean charging for something is providing poor service. However, having a bad attitude to your cutomers is.

I guess as long as they smile when they nickel and dime you

tonystan wrote:

[photoid][/photoid]

dz09 wrote:

winginit wrote:

You've been on this forum 15 years... let's not pretend you don't know who Zach Honig is...

jumbojet wrote:

To me, he definitely comes across as being an over entitled pr%% and a professional instigator.[/quote

I have been on this forum for a while too and I check it on a daily basis and i honestly don't know know who this blogger is. But then again I'm not a big fan of bloggers. They should all get a real job!

Same. Been here a similar time and never heard of him in my life!

That’s fine and all, but it really shouldn’t matter who he is. Nobody should ever treat any customer like that, regardless of who they are.

ual763 wrote:

tonystan wrote:

[photoid][/photoid]

dz09 wrote:

You've been on this forum 15 years... let's not pretend you don't know who Zach Honig is...

Same. Been here a similar time and never heard of him in my life!

That’s fine and all, but it really shouldn’t matter who he is. Nobody should ever treat any customer like that, regardless of who they are.

Bingo. It's a customer service position. end of story really.

Exactly, and as the manager of a well-known, highly successful, no-frills airline has put it mildly: "It is a glorified bus operation!" Or,they should try Pam Ann Airlines: "We don't make the same mistake more than two times...well,make it three...perhaps four... no more than five!"