DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

DeltaRules · Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:55 am

CMH

CR7: 5
CR9: 2
E70: 10
E75: 5
M88: 5
M90: 2
319: 1
738: 2
739: 2

Total: 34 (12 destinations; weekend Florida and CUN flying excluded from this count. CUN shifts to a 739 in July.)
Mainline: 35.3%

-CMH is E-jet heavy because of the YX maintenance and crew bases here. LGA, JFK, and BOS are all E70 or E75; it looks like three of JFK's four E70 flights are to Columbus.
-SLC will return in 2019 on undetermined equipment.
-CRAA wants SEA and TATL flights (among others) and DL would be one of the logical suitors for both. It sounds like there's been progress made toward a TATL flight.
-Much like BNA, there's actually a big equipment switch coming a couple weeks after this, where most of the Mad Dogs go to 738s and 739s. DL recently had a rep at a civic club event who said the name of the game for CMH will be continued upgauging.

PSU.DTW.SCE · Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:58 am

MSP:
Category, 2014 count, 2018 count, Difference
50 Seat RJ 137 90 -47
2-Class RJ 109 113 4
120 seat 27 74 47
150 seat 132 82 -50
180 seat+ 39 81 42
Widebody 13 7 -6
457 447 -10

SLC:
Category, 2014 count, 2018 count, Difference
50 Seat RJ 77 41 -36
2-Class RJ 77 83 6
120 seat 22 30 8
150 seat 56 64 8
180 seat+ 29 50 21
Widebody 3 4 1
264 272 8

PSU.DTW.SCE · Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:02 am

Comment on category changes since 2014:

- 50 Seat (ERJ, CRJ)
Across the board down in every fleet type - there are fewer frames in the category on all types.
- 2-class RJ (CR7, CR9, E70, E75)
This type has increased - with more frames in fleet since 2014
- 120 seat (73G, 717, 319)
Increased slightly as all of the 717 fleet topped-out since 2014
- 150 seat (320, 738, M88, M90)
Decreased as there have been retirements in the A320, MD88, MD90 fleets since 2014
- >180 seat (321, 739, 752, 753)
Increased significantly with the in-doc of many, many 739 & 321s since 2014

- Widebody (332, 333, 359, 744, 777, 77L)
Biggest change has been the retirement of most of the domestic 763s, and yes the 744s replaced by 359s.

avi8 · Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:19 am

axiom wrote:
Always find DL's gigantic FL footprint to be interesting. Here are the two large Central Florida stations to begin... would be good to see South Florida and the smaller stations too. And this is far from peak season...

MCO

320: 7
321: 12
M88: 1
712: 3
738: 3
739: 3
752: 24 (!)
753: 2
763: 2

Total = 55
Mainline = 100%

TPA

CR9: 3
M88: 3
M90: 2
319: 3
320: 5
321: 1
712: 4
738: 3
739: 7
752: 4

Total Flights = 35
Mainline = 91.4%

I could have sworn TPA had more A321’s. I wonder just how many more flights per hub does DL need at MCO to Have almost twice the number of flights it has at TPA. I thought the difference wasn’t as massive as it is.

PSU.DTW.SCE · Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:22 am

Guys....can we agree to disagree and keep those focused on a discussion about the DL network, DL fleet, DL hubs, and year over year changes.

CAN WE STOP TURNING THIS INTO A BICKER-FEST ABOUT DTW or the rantings for or against a particular poster who derails these threads.
Keep it contained to the cesspool of the DTW Air Service 2018 #45,943 thread.

Some of us are trying to bring some interesting analysis, discussion, commentary to bear and also educate ourselves about what is going on around the DL network (and the other airline threads)

Thanks FSDan, this is as always, good stuff.

winginit · Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:32 am

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Guys....can we agree to disagree and keep those focused on a discussion about the DL network, DL fleet, DL hubs, and year over year changes.

CAN WE STOP TURNING THIS INTO A BICKER-FEST ABOUT DTW or the rantings for or against a particular poster who derails these threads.
Keep it contained to the cesspool of the DTW Air Service 2018 #45,943 thread.

Some of us are trying to bring some interesting analysis, discussion, commentary to bear and also educate ourselves about what is going on around the DL network (and the other airline threads)

Thanks FSDan, this is as always, good stuff.

Righto then. For your viewing and discussing pleasure, a YoY DL capacity view comparing YE2017 to YE2018 measured by ASMs by hub:

ATL: +3.3%
CVG: +9.7%
DTW: +2.6%
JFK: +2.7%
LAX: +6.3%
MSP: +1.4%
SEA: +10.3%

airzona11 · Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:46 am

stl07 wrote:
Actually, KLM isn't completely wrong. In many situations where a routing over CVG makes much more sense, the connection via out of the way ATL appears in the first 5 or so results.

DLs job is to maximize revenue with lowest costs, therefore if it made "much more sense" DL would be showing that routing.

blink182 · Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:03 am

FSDan wrote:
kaitak744 wrote:
Are they ending the ATL-LAX 777-200LR flight?
There was also a JFK-LAX A330-300 flight. Is that no longer?
Where is that A330-200 going?

For now, the 77Ls are rotated between ATL and LAX via AMS. ATL-LAX has 2x daily 763s (domestic config), so there are still widebodies on the route. In the Fall the LAX-Europe routes move to the 333, and I believe LAX-ATL gets a 77L rotation back in order to bridge aircraft between ATL and LAX-SYD.

The JFK-LAX 333 flight operated during the winter season in order to bridge aircraft between LAX-HND and JFK. LAX-HND is moving back to the 777-200ER this summer, so there's no need for the 333 rotation. The A330-200 flight is on LAX-JFK (RON at LAX), so there's still an A330 on the route. Also, I wouldn't be surprised to see the 333 return to JFK-LAX after the summer season.

Great work on compiling this data, but the other day I traveled through JFK and ATL and saw A333 and 77L depart from each respective hub to LAX. Were these substitutes, or did I catch the last day of the Spring schedule?

Midwestindy · Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:45 am

IND
CR2: 2 (temporary)
E170: 5
E175: 4
CR9: 9
——
B717: 2
A319: 5
MD88: 10
B738: 1
B752: 1
B763: 1

40 Departures (50% mainline)
14 Destinations

AUS
CR9: 2
-----
A319: 11
A320: 9
A321: 4
B738: 1

27 Departures (92.6% mainline)
10 Destinations

Overthecascades · Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:00 am

winginit wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Guys....can we agree to disagree and keep those focused on a discussion about the DL network, DL fleet, DL hubs, and year over year changes.

CAN WE STOP TURNING THIS INTO A BICKER-FEST ABOUT DTW or the rantings for or against a particular poster who derails these threads.
Keep it contained to the cesspool of the DTW Air Service 2018 #45,943 thread.

Some of us are trying to bring some interesting analysis, discussion, commentary to bear and also educate ourselves about what is going on around the DL network (and the other airline threads)

Thanks FSDan, this is as always, good stuff.

Righto then. For your viewing and discussing pleasure, a YoY DL capacity view comparing YE2017 to YE2018 measured by ASMs by hub:

ATL: +3.3%
CVG: +9.7%
DTW: +2.6%
JFK: +2.7%
LAX: +6.3%
MSP: +1.4%
SEA: +10.3%

A bit surprised to see double digit growth at SEA. I thought the gates and IAF were hindering DL growth there??

BoeingGuy · Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:52 am

Midwestindy wrote:
IND
CR2: 2 (temporary)
E170: 5
E175: 4
CR9: 9
——
B717: 2
A319: 5
MD88: 10
B738: 1
B752: 1
B763: 1

40 Departures (50% mainline)
14 Destinations

AUS
CR9: 2
-----
A319: 11
A320: 9
A321: 4
B738: 1

27 Departures (92.6% mainline)
10 Destinations

AUS has no international flights on DL. PDX has three. Isn’t PDX more of a focus city than IND or AUS?

MartijnNL · Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:28 am

NWADTWE16 wrote:
Cant wait for the CSeries to start showing up, especially in the D. Those Md88's can have fun in ATL, I avoid them and ATL at all cost, same with the MD90's, I like my upgraded interiors and TV's thank you

How preferences can differ! I have travelled from Europe to the United States with the sole purpose of flying on the great M80's and M90's. I would pay extra for flights on McDonnell Douglas jets. Old seats and no screens, just as flying used to be. I love it.

I'm sure you'll find the CSeries to be comfortable. I enjoyed two flights in them on Air Baltic travelling from Amsterdam to Riga and back. I really like the idea of the middle seat being an inch wider than the other seats.

jfklganyc · Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:40 am

So NYC (LGA/JFK)is now their second largest hub in terms of departures.

Bigger than MSP or DTW

That is simply amazing!

axiom · Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:09 am

avi8 wrote:
axiom wrote:
Always find DL's gigantic FL footprint to be interesting. Here are the two large Central Florida stations to begin... would be good to see South Florida and the smaller stations too. And this is far from peak season...

MCO

320: 7
321: 12
M88: 1
712: 3
738: 3
739: 3
752: 24 (!)
753: 2
763: 2

Total = 55
Mainline = 100%

TPA

CR9: 3
M88: 3
M90: 2
319: 3
320: 5
321: 1
712: 4
738: 3
739: 7
752: 4

Total Flights = 35
Mainline = 91.4%

I could have sworn TPA had more A321’s. I wonder just how many more flights per hub does DL need at MCO to Have almost twice the number of flights it has at TPA. I thought the difference wasn’t as massive as it is.

The 321s have been in TPA quite a bit this spring. There were roughly ten a day on ATL-TPA, of the 15 or so frequencies. There were also 3 753 flights a day. TPA has seen solid growth from DL over the last two years, and IIRC it's around the 15th largest station from a revenue perspective - larger than RDU. FLL is around the same size as TPA, with MCO quite a bit bigger.

I suspect TPA is more seasonal than MCO, for starters. In summer TPA looks like it's maybe 25% below peak capacity, whereas MCO looks like it's more around 10-15% off. That's my hunch - no numbers to back that up right now. The best comparison between Florida markets has to be one that looks at peak season and the year as an entirety. They're a bit different than traditional ones.

MIflyer12 · Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:09 am

jfklganyc wrote:
So NYC (LGA/JFK)is now their second largest hub in terms of departures.

Bigger than MSP or DTW

That is simply amazing!

The 2011 DCA/LaGuardia slop slot with USAirways showed they had a strategy. Spending a crap-ton $ on facilities at LGA, and committing an even bigger amount in the LGA rebuild... they've been working on NYC for a while. Sure, they're competing with UA and B6 but it's a really big market.

lowfareair · Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:42 am

jfklganyc wrote:
So NYC (LGA/JFK)is now their second largest hub in terms of departures.

Bigger than MSP or DTW

That is simply amazing!

2nd largest city, yes, but service to 2 separate airports != 1 hub.

Midwestindy · Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:04 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
IND
CR2: 2 (temporary)
E170: 5
E175: 4
CR9: 9
——
B717: 2
A319: 5
MD88: 10
B738: 1
B752: 1
B763: 1

40 Departures (50% mainline)
14 Destinations

AUS
CR9: 2
-----
A319: 11
A320: 9
A321: 4
B738: 1

27 Departures (92.6% mainline)
10 Destinations

AUS has no international flights on DL. PDX has three. Isn’t PDX more of a focus city than IND or AUS?

PDX
E175: 7
----
712: 4
319: 1
320: 4
738: 2
739: 10
A321: 7
753: 1
763: 2
333: 1

39 Departures (82.1% Mainline)
11 Destinations

axiom · Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:16 pm

EDIT - please delete

flymco753 · Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:10 pm

FL airports had a drawdown or dispersment in A321 service. The 321 used to strictly fly MCO-ATL but now flies MCO-LGA/JFK/ATL/DTW. TPA-ATL/DTW. RSW-ATL/DTW and FLL-ATL/DTW.

freakyrat · Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:28 pm

DiamondFlyer wrote:
freakyrat wrote:
Speaking of the DL ATL hub there is a possibility of SBN getting a return of at least 1 Mainline 717 roundtrio before years out and not just for the ND Football weekends. DL has already upguaged an afternoon flight to a CRJ900. This week they operated a B717 on the last flight into SBN from ATL and it was sold to 86 seats including the Economy Comfort and First Class Seating. The jet operated the morning flight to MSP the next day also selling over 85 seats. It seams like Delta is experimenting to see how they can ditch the CRJ200's and what routes they can upgrade and with what aircraft. My sources seem to believe that in the future only SBN-DTW will be operated by CRJ200's and that MSP and ATL will be operated by a mix of CRJ900 and B717 mainline aircraft. Of course on special event weekends for Notre Dame select flights to and from all hubs are operated with mainline aircraft. Delta also has an open RFP for a SBN-JFK roundtrip.

Unless OO gets that hangar increased in size to accommodate CR9's, SBN (and FWA) will both continue to see mostly CR2 service, especially from ATL. Those are the nearest MX bases for the OO CR2 operations in ATL.

SBN's maintenance hangar can work on CR7's and CR9's and has worked on a CR7 already. We are talking about the early afternoon or early evening flights from ATL that are used for connecting passengers. The afternoon flight is already a CR9 from Endeavor Air. Regardless of the OO maintenace hangar SBN needs the lift to ATL as the morning flights are pretty full and they have no room for non revs to move crews to ATL.

flymco753 · Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:47 pm

I'll put together one for MCO/TPA/FLL in a few after I get the information.

PSU.DTW.SCE · Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:29 pm

flymco753 wrote:
FL airports had a drawdown or dispersment in A321 service. The 321 used to strictly fly MCO-ATL but now flies MCO-LGA/JFK/ATL/DTW. TPA-ATL/DTW. RSW-ATL/DTW and FLL-ATL/DTW.

DL tends to "flip" the capacity a bit more in summer months. You tend to see more capacity peak on "east - west" routes in the summer months, and capacity peak on "north-south" routes in the late-winter/spring break periods.

Hence what is all A321/757 in Winter/Spring to Florida is often dialed-down to MD88/MD90/A320 for summer. Then you see increased capacity going to the west coast, mountain west markets in summer.

factsonly · Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:38 pm

DL @ AMS:

- A333 12x (largest DL A333 station)
- B763 5x
- B77L 2x
- A359 1x

= 20x Departures/day

= 10x Destinations

DiamondFlyer · Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:08 pm

freakyrat wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:
freakyrat wrote:
Speaking of the DL ATL hub there is a possibility of SBN getting a return of at least 1 Mainline 717 roundtrio before years out and not just for the ND Football weekends. DL has already upguaged an afternoon flight to a CRJ900. This week they operated a B717 on the last flight into SBN from ATL and it was sold to 86 seats including the Economy Comfort and First Class Seating. The jet operated the morning flight to MSP the next day also selling over 85 seats. It seams like Delta is experimenting to see how they can ditch the CRJ200's and what routes they can upgrade and with what aircraft. My sources seem to believe that in the future only SBN-DTW will be operated by CRJ200's and that MSP and ATL will be operated by a mix of CRJ900 and B717 mainline aircraft. Of course on special event weekends for Notre Dame select flights to and from all hubs are operated with mainline aircraft. Delta also has an open RFP for a SBN-JFK roundtrip.

Unless OO gets that hangar increased in size to accommodate CR9's, SBN (and FWA) will both continue to see mostly CR2 service, especially from ATL. Those are the nearest MX bases for the OO CR2 operations in ATL.

SBN's maintenance hangar can work on CR7's and CR9's and has worked on a CR7 already. We are talking about the early afternoon or early evening flights from ATL that are used for connecting passengers. The afternoon flight is already a CR9 from Endeavor Air. Regardless of the OO maintenace hangar SBN needs the lift to ATL as the morning flights are pretty full and they have no room for non revs to move crews to ATL.

Unless OO substantially changes their ATL operation, I don't see SBN or FWA getting more than 1x daily CR9. They simply need to be able to use those 2 cities to repair planes and move crews between hubs. Unfortunate for both cities, as OO seems to be late more often than not.

freakyrat · Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:02 pm

DiamondFlyer wrote:
freakyrat wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:

Unless OO gets that hangar increased in size to accommodate CR9's, SBN (and FWA) will both continue to see mostly CR2 service, especially from ATL. Those are the nearest MX bases for the OO CR2 operations in ATL.

SBN's maintenance hangar can work on CR7's and CR9's and has worked on a CR7 already. We are talking about the early afternoon or early evening flights from ATL that are used for connecting passengers. The afternoon flight is already a CR9 from Endeavor Air. Regardless of the OO maintenace hangar SBN needs the lift to ATL as the morning flights are pretty full and they have no room for non revs to move crews to ATL.

Unless OO substantially changes their ATL operation, I don't see SBN or FWA getting more than 1x daily CR9. They simply need to be able to use those 2 cities to repair planes and move crews between hubs. Unfortunate for both cities, as OO seems to be late more often than not.

SBN airport officials have been meeting with Delta in Atlanta to see if the Atlanta flights can get upgraded to a mix of CRJ9's and B717. OO has problems moving crews to ATL out of SBN because there just are not enough seats. Often they have to route crews through DTW to get them to Atlanta. I agree however that the OO maintenance bases are holding both cities back on getting the ATL flights upgraded as the demand is there especially from SBN. Some of the heat has been taken off Delta by having AA now in SBN although the CLT meltdown this week hasn't helped the operation.

uconn99 · Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:22 pm

SteelChair wrote:
Ionosphere wrote:
FSDan wrote:

OK, I'll bite (because I agree with your point overall). Here are the CR2 destinations and frequencies on 7/23. Entries with a * denote that the CR2 service constitutes the entire service to that destination from DTW. Otherwise, the CR2s are supplemented by 2-class RJs and/or mainline.

*YOW x2
CID x3
*MQT x2
*IMT x1
*ESC x2
*CIU x1
*CWA x2
GRB x2
ATW x1
*MLI x2
*PIA x2
*EVV x3
*FWA x3
*SBN x5
AZO x4
*LAN x4
TVC x2
*PLN x4
*APN x1
MBS x3
CAK x2
DAY x2
SDF x2
LEX x2
*CHA x2
*TYS x5
*HSV x1
GSP x2
*GSO x3
*ERI x3
*SCE x3
MDT x3
*ABE x2
*AVP x3
*ITH x2
*BGM x2
SYR x2
*SWF x1
BTV x2

All in all I'd say that DL's using CR2s in entirely appropriate markets now. Markets like MKE, IAD, IND, BUF, and even the likes of GRR, ALB, and BHM now see all 2-class service from DTW.

In 2011, DL had x7 CR2/day on PVD-DTW. Today there's a 717 & 3 CR9/day.

I think this trend will continue over the next 5 year in many markets.

50 seaters go away slowly
76 seat take over 50 seat flying with less frequency
109/110 seaters take 76 seat flying, less frequency.

Its an upgauge. May help with ATC, due fewer planes in the air, though the slot control airports will always be full. Also helps with seat mile costs and pilot shortage.

If the planes and frequencies are correct for PVD a few years back, today PVD see's around 24 or so less seats and 6 fewer frequencies overall daily.

jagraham · Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:24 pm

lowfareair wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
So NYC (LGA/JFK)is now their second largest hub in terms of departures.

Bigger than MSP or DTW

That is simply amazing!

2nd largest city, yes, but service to 2 separate airports != 1 hub.

Yes it's 2 hubs. Listed as such on Delta.com. But that's what DL had to work with.

I remember the times when posters said Delta would amount to nothing in NYC . . .

FSDan · Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:08 pm

MSPNWA wrote:
Nearly half of DL's departures at MSP are now CRJs. Just another small jab at the customers that consistently provide some of DL's highest margins. It's one of many pieces of evidence that says that product have very little to do with profits. If it did, MSP and DTW would never be near the highest margin hubs for DL.

You're trying really hard to focus on the negative here... The fact is that there are only 4 additional daily CRJ departures from MSP compared to 2014 (and ~40 of those departures have been upgauged from 50-seaters to two-class CRJs), while mainline departures are up more than 15% (30+ additional flights) over four years ago. The mainline adds nearly equal the E-Jet removals, and the CRJ departure counts have remained virtually unchanged.

MSPNWA · Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:51 pm

FSDan wrote:
You're trying really hard to focus on the negative here... The fact is that there are only 4 additional daily CRJ departures from MSP compared to 2014 (and ~40 of those departures have been upgauged from 50-seaters to two-class CRJs), while mainline departures are up more than 15% (30+ additional flights) over four years ago. The mainline adds nearly equal the E-Jet removals, and the CRJ departure counts have remained virtually unchanged.

So should MSP fliers simply be happy and thanking daddy Delta that CRJ departures haven't increased more? Ridiculous. Among DL's large stations, only MSP and JFK saw CRJ departures increase in the past four years (and JFK was due to the removal of the E145s, shifting traffic over to CRJs instead). I'm going to point out the obvious negative because, you know, it is one. To not point it out would be ignoring facts. The fact of the matter is that MSP has been a relative loser when it comes to DL's fleet shifting, not seeing the significant gains that other stations are experiencing. What the facts say is that you are grasping for straws to find a positive spin.

ehaase · Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:05 am

293 MD88 flights per day out of Atlanta, and 30 months from now they'll be gone.

Justapax · Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:51 am

ehaase wrote:
293 MD88 flights per day out of Atlanta, and 30 months from now they'll be gone.

Which leads me to ask...

Among AA, DL, UA, how many aircraft do each of the 3 have on order?

FSDan · Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:55 pm

MSPNWA wrote:
FSDan wrote:
You're trying really hard to focus on the negative here... The fact is that there are only 4 additional daily CRJ departures from MSP compared to 2014 (and ~40 of those departures have been upgauged from 50-seaters to two-class CRJs), while mainline departures are up more than 15% (30+ additional flights) over four years ago. The mainline adds nearly equal the E-Jet removals, and the CRJ departure counts have remained virtually unchanged.

So should MSP fliers simply be happy and thanking daddy Delta that CRJ departures haven't increased more? Ridiculous. Among DL's large stations, only MSP and JFK saw CRJ departures increase in the past four years (and JFK was due to the removal of the E145s, shifting traffic over to CRJs instead). I'm going to point out the obvious negative because, you know, it is one. To not point it out would be ignoring facts. The fact of the matter is that MSP has been a relative loser when it comes to DL's fleet shifting, not seeing the significant gains that other stations are experiencing. What the facts say is that you are grasping for straws to find a positive spin.

I don't live in a major hub metro. I don't have a strong bias for or against any one airport. I don't work for an airline. What motivation do you think I would have for "grasping for straws to find a positive spin"? I'm calling it like I see it, and what I see is that DL's MSP hub has significantly more mainline service and significantly fewer flights on 50-seaters than it did a few years ago.

S12 - DL @ MSP is 41.3% mainline, with 156 departures on 50-seaters
S13 - DL @ MSP is 40.4% mainline, with 158 departures on 50-seaters
S14 - DL @ MSP is 46.2% mainline, with 137 departures on 50-seaters
...
S18 - DL @ MSP is 54.6% mainline, with 90 departures on 50 seaters

I guess the overall trend of upgauging stuck out to me more than the very small increase in CRJ departures (which you could explain away the same way you did for JFK if you wanted to - there were 5 ER4 departures from MSP in 2014 that have become 4 CRJ departures).

PSU.DTW.SCE · Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:13 pm

ehaase wrote:
293 MD88 flights per day out of Atlanta, and 30 months from now they'll be gone.

I wouldn't be surprised after that to eventually see the MD-90s then concentrated down to ATL.

That said, lots of 739, 321, C-Series coming on board over the next 30 months to replace the MD88 capacity.

STT757 · Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:40 pm

Justapax wrote:
ehaase wrote:
293 MD88 flights per day out of Atlanta, and 30 months from now they'll be gone.

Which leads me to ask...

Among AA, DL, UA, how many aircraft do each of the 3 have on order?

United:
34 A319s (second hand, 14 from CZ, 20 from Easyjet), 45 A350-900s, 55 737MAX9, 100 737MAX10, 3 767-300 (second hand from HA), 1 77W, 14 787-10

American:
100 A321NEO, 90 737MAX8, 22 787-8, 32 787-9

Delta:
74 A321, 100 A321NEO, 25 A330-900NEO, 31 737-900ER, 75 Bombardier CS100, 14 A350-900

drdisque · Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:05 pm

When the Concourse G expansion at DTW was completed, the Mesaba fleet consisted only of Dash 8's and Metros.

Both were replaced by Saab 340's circa 1998, 4 years before the McNamara Terminal opened. CRJ's were operated exclusively by Pinnacle while Mesaba got RJ85's. It took awhile for DTW to get CRJ's - maybe 2000 or 2001 or so. Prior to that DTW was all Mesaba SF340's and RJ85's in terms of Airlink. Mesaba didn't start flying CRJ's until ~2005 or 6 and got their first CR9 in 2007.

The JS31, C212, and F-27 were all gone from DTW in the late 80's or very early 90's. To my knowledge the Do228 never operated to DTW in NW colors.

flymco753 · Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:45 pm

MCO

CR7: 1
CR9 7
717: 4
320: 8
738: 3
739: 3
321: 9
752: 26
753: 2
76W: 2

FSDan · Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:30 pm

flymco753 wrote:
MCO

CR7: 1
CR9 7
717: 4
320: 8
738: 3
739: 3
321: 9
752: 26
753: 2
76W: 2

The numbers for MCO from post #43 are different from these. I'm guessing you used a date other than 7/23/2018 given that I don't see any RJ ops in the weekday schedule.

flymco753 · Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:37 pm

FSDan wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
MCO

CR7: 1
CR9 7
717: 4
320: 8
738: 3
739: 3
321: 9
752: 26
753: 2
76W: 2

The numbers for MCO from post #43 are different from these. I'm guessing you used a date other than 7/23/2018 given that I don't see any RJ ops in the weekday schedule.

I accidentally flip flopped the dates. I wanted to use Saturday 7/14 to reflect the CRJ ops. Let me try that again.

TW870 · Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:07 am

FSDan and everyone who put data in this thread, thank you. Such good information.

These numbers really help me understand why NYC has been announced as the first CSeries pilot base, and not any other city. LGA is very much an outlier in the high percentage of RJ flying. Of course the perimeter rule causes some of this, as it shortens stage lengths. But very competitive operations like SEA have moved to larger aircraft, and it makes sense to make a similar shift at LGA. Texas, RDU, and ORD all seem like obvious candidates for CSeries service, and my sense is they are already planning on bridging the CSeries through DFW to LAX. Now if we could just get some aircraft built we could solve the problem!

NolaMD88fan · Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:50 am

MSY

CR9: 4 (304 seats)
717: 3 (330 seats)
M88: 7 (1,043 seats)
738: 5 (800 seats)
320: 2 (320 seats)
321: 2 (384 seats)
752: 2 (360 seats)

25 Departures (84.0% mainline)
3,541 Departing Seats (91.4% mainline)
7 Destinations

Cactusjuba · Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:56 am

STT757 wrote:
Justapax wrote:
ehaase wrote:
293 MD88 flights per day out of Atlanta, and 30 months from now they'll be gone.

Which leads me to ask...

Among AA, DL, UA, how many aircraft do each of the 3 have on order?

United:
34 A319s (second hand, 14 from CZ, 20 from Easyjet), 45 A350-900s, 55 737MAX9, 100 737MAX10, 3 767-300 (second hand from HA), 1 77W, 14 787-10

American:
100 A321NEO, 90 737MAX8, 22 787-8, 32 787-9

Delta:
74 A321, 100 A321NEO, 25 A330-900NEO, 31 737-900ER, 75 Bombardier CS100, 14 A350-900

*It is all but expected that the additional options of 100 321NEOs and 50 CSeries will be exercised. Also, only the first 35 CSeries are firm as -100s...after that they can be switched to -300s. Murmured that most will end up CS300s.

lavalampluva · Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:28 am

FSDan wrote:
MSPNWA wrote:
FSDan wrote:
You're trying really hard to focus on the negative here... The fact is that there are only 4 additional daily CRJ departures from MSP compared to 2014 (and ~40 of those departures have been upgauged from 50-seaters to two-class CRJs), while mainline departures are up more than 15% (30+ additional flights) over four years ago. The mainline adds nearly equal the E-Jet removals, and the CRJ departure counts have remained virtually unchanged.

So should MSP fliers simply be happy and thanking daddy Delta that CRJ departures haven't increased more? Ridiculous. Among DL's large stations, only MSP and JFK saw CRJ departures increase in the past four years (and JFK was due to the removal of the E145s, shifting traffic over to CRJs instead). I'm going to point out the obvious negative because, you know, it is one. To not point it out would be ignoring facts. The fact of the matter is that MSP has been a relative loser when it comes to DL's fleet shifting, not seeing the significant gains that other stations are experiencing. What the facts say is that you are grasping for straws to find a positive spin.

I don't live in a major hub metro. I don't have a strong bias for or against any one airport. I don't work for an airline. What motivation do you think I would have for "grasping for straws to find a positive spin"? I'm calling it like I see it, and what I see is that DL's MSP hub has significantly more mainline service and significantly fewer flights on 50-seaters than it did a few years ago.

S12 - DL @ MSP is 41.3% mainline, with 156 departures on 50-seaters
S13 - DL @ MSP is 40.4% mainline, with 158 departures on 50-seaters
S14 - DL @ MSP is 46.2% mainline, with 137 departures on 50-seaters
...
S18 - DL @ MSP is 54.6% mainline, with 90 departures on 50 seaters

I guess the overall trend of upgauging stuck out to me more than the very small increase in CRJ departures (which you could explain away the same way you did for JFK if you wanted to - there were 5 ER4 departures from MSP in 2014 that have become 4 CRJ departures).

Well CP has moved all their flights out of MSP. Could that count as part of the reason for the drop in RJs? Or were they replaced by others?

gsg013 · Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:31 pm

lowfareair wrote:
The crazy thing to me about ATL is not just the number of flights, but how it can do such a high %age as mainline. To put it in perspective, distant 2nd DTW (well under half the number of flights to ATL) still has 25% more DL Connection flights than ATL.

As has been stated a million times the economics of ATL are almost insane. Bring in tons of passengers on mainline aircraft and then have them connect to other mainline aircraft. That ATL hub is the true definition of a fortress its always amazing being at ATL and seeing how many planes take off and land in just a 2 minute span. I know there are still a significant number of CR-2's flying into and out of ATL however the only times I have flown a RJ in and out of ATL is the CR-700 flight ATL-EYW.

gsg013 · Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:35 pm

FSDan wrote:
kaitak744 wrote:
Are they ending the ATL-LAX 777-200LR flight?
There was also a JFK-LAX A330-300 flight. Is that no longer?
Where is that A330-200 going?

For now, the 77Ls are rotated between ATL and LAX via AMS. ATL-LAX has 2x daily 763s (domestic config), so there are still widebodies on the route. In the Fall the LAX-Europe routes move to the 333, and I believe LAX-ATL gets a 77L rotation back in order to bridge aircraft between ATL and LAX-SYD.

The JFK-LAX 333 flight operated during the winter season in order to bridge aircraft between LAX-HND and JFK. LAX-HND is moving back to the 777-200ER this summer, so there's no need for the 333 rotation. The A330-200 flight is on LAX-JFK (RON at LAX), so there's still an A330 on the route. Also, I wouldn't be surprised to see the 333 return to JFK-LAX after the summer season.

I am actually flying the A330-200 flight LAX-JFK next Tuesday if you understand it can you explain the routing of that plane and why they put the A330 on the JFK-LAX-JFK route? (Dont get me wrong I am very happy to be on an A330 vs 767 or 757) but seems kinda odd that they route the plane across the country once per day this summer?

FSDan · Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:42 pm

gsg013 wrote:
FSDan wrote:
kaitak744 wrote:
Are they ending the ATL-LAX 777-200LR flight?
There was also a JFK-LAX A330-300 flight. Is that no longer?
Where is that A330-200 going?

For now, the 77Ls are rotated between ATL and LAX via AMS. ATL-LAX has 2x daily 763s (domestic config), so there are still widebodies on the route. In the Fall the LAX-Europe routes move to the 333, and I believe LAX-ATL gets a 77L rotation back in order to bridge aircraft between ATL and LAX-SYD.

The JFK-LAX 333 flight operated during the winter season in order to bridge aircraft between LAX-HND and JFK. LAX-HND is moving back to the 777-200ER this summer, so there's no need for the 333 rotation. The A330-200 flight is on LAX-JFK (RON at LAX), so there's still an A330 on the route. Also, I wouldn't be surprised to see the 333 return to JFK-LAX after the summer season.

I am actually flying the A330-200 flight LAX-JFK next Tuesday if you understand it can you explain the routing of that plane and why they put the A330 on the JFK-LAX-JFK route? (Dont get me wrong I am very happy to be on an A330 vs 767 or 757) but seems kinda odd that they route the plane across the country once per day this summer?

This one used to be loaded as a 764, and I'm guessing they switched it to the 332 simply because they had more wiggle room with that fleet. The 764 schedule this summer requires 20 out of 21 frames, with one as a spare (probably in ATL, I'd guess). The 332 schedule requires 11 out of 11 frames, but has some pretty significant downtime built in.

slcdeltarumd11 · Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:59 pm

LGA really is RJ central for Delta

BOS is still a pretty big station for Delta

redtailmsp · Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:07 pm

Lots of really interesting data has been collated for this thread. Thanks for the hard work FSDan and everyone. You used a particular day (July 23rd) for this snapshot of operations, which is the natural thing to do. However, in the past couple of years, Delta have evolved mainline operations on several routes to a point where you may see two - or even three - aircraft types on a particular flight each week. For example, a 757-200 on a Monday and Friday, an MD90 on a Saturday, and a 737-900 on the other days of the week. Somehow this works with crew rosters and rotations, aircraft routings, etc. Very, very complicated, and makes it virtually impossible to accurately show the numbers of each individual aircraft type as it will fluctuate throughout the week. This may not happen in each market, but take a look at , for example, MSP-ATL and look at the timetable for a complete week. So FSDan, if you tried to create this same data for a complete week, I can guarantee that you will be pulling your hair out!!!

Rbgso · Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:11 pm

I'm amazed that ATL is still so MD88 dominated. That's a lot of departures for that plane.

FSDan · Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:57 pm

redtailmsp wrote:
Lots of really interesting data has been collated for this thread. Thanks for the hard work FSDan and everyone. You used a particular day (July 23rd) for this snapshot of operations, which is the natural thing to do. However, in the past couple of years, Delta have evolved mainline operations on several routes to a point where you may see two - or even three - aircraft types on a particular flight each week. For example, a 757-200 on a Monday and Friday, an MD90 on a Saturday, and a 737-900 on the other days of the week. Somehow this works with crew rosters and rotations, aircraft routings, etc. Very, very complicated, and makes it virtually impossible to accurately show the numbers of each individual aircraft type as it will fluctuate throughout the week. This may not happen in each market, but take a look at , for example, MSP-ATL and look at the timetable for a complete week. So FSDan, if you tried to create this same data for a complete week, I can guarantee that you will be pulling your hair out!!!

Oh, I know! I've had a hard enough time over the years just picking a day of the week to use

. Monday/Thursday/Friday are the typical peak days, but even these are affected by various non-daily flights. I figure even if the aircraft type flying a particular flight varies from day to day, it still roughly balances out at each hub given that a certain number of aircraft from each fleet type are based at any given hub.

beerbus · Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:19 pm

IND
DL Ops by AC Type 23 JUL 18

A/C Flts
CRJ 2
CR9 9
E70 5
E75 4
M88 10
717 2
738 1
757 1
767W 1
319 5

Total Seats: 4,387
Total Flights 40

% Flights Mainline: 50.0

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